Scrat;454791 wrote: This will accelerate the already booming economy in Russia and hopefully bring her closer before the Dumocrats take power here. This also may be speaking too soon as it is not in the best interests of certain idiologs around the globe.
They best learn that tigers should be tamed. Russias natural wealth is a great asset and not one that needs to be kept from the world. An isolated Russia is a liability to the world.
URL Source: http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx? type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nL10214396&pageNumber
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By Elif Kaban and Douglas Busvine
MOSCOW, Nov 10 (Reuters) - Russia has reached a bilateral trade deal with Washington to join the World Trade Organisation, a major breakthrough after 13 years of tortuous negotiations, the head of the country's business lobby said on Friday.
"A deal has been made," Alexander Shokhin, the head of the Russian Union of Industrialists and Entrepreneurs, told Reuters by telephone from Beijing where he was accompanying Economy Minister German Gref on a trip.
Earlier, Deputy Economy Minister Andrei Sharonov told Reuters that "the word in Moscow is that there is agreement."
"We hope that the two presidents might finalise the negotiations in Vietnam early next week," Sharonov said.
Presidents Vladimir Putin and George W. Bush are due to shake hands on the deal when they meet in mid-November at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in Hanoi, said Shokhin.
Earlier, a top Kremlin official said Russian and U.S. leaders were likely to agree a bilateral deal soon.
"Talks have been going on nearly round the clock ... I think completing the talks is fully realistic," Arkady Dvorkovich, the head of the Kremlin's economic staff, said in an interview. Continued...
The jury is still out on Russia. They most definetly need to be in the WTO however..
Russia Joining WTO.
Russia Joining WTO.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Russia Joining WTO.
zinkyusa;454795 wrote: The jury is still out on Russia. They most definetly need to be in the WTO however..More to the point the European Union would benefit immensely if it could find a way to incorporate Russia as a Member State. I have twice written to my Member of Parliament recommending that he support any initiative in that direction.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Russia Joining WTO.
spot;454819 wrote: More to the point the European Union would benefit immensely if it could find a way to incorporate Russia as a Member State. I have twice written to my Member of Parliament recommending that he support any initiative in that direction.
I also would like to see Russia as part of NATO..I believe they even asked to join in the past.
I also would like to see Russia as part of NATO..I believe they even asked to join in the past.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Russia Joining WTO.
zinkyusa;454851 wrote: I also would like to see Russia as part of NATO..I believe they even asked to join in the past.Russian public opinion on that question is discussed on http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/cat/fro ... O/ed041629 - support seems equivocal at best. Perhaps those against erroneously see NATO as dominated from just one side of the Atlantic?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Russia Joining WTO.
spot;454864 wrote: Russian public opinion on that question is discussed on http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/cat/fro ... O/ed041629 - support seems equivocal at best. Perhaps those against erroneously see NATO as dominated from just one side of the Atlantic?
Fascinating study. They are unhappy at the NATO expansion and yet see it as undesirable to join. Certainly understandable, after being considered a military superpower for so long I imagine Russians would not take kindly to any percieved restrictions on their conducting an independant foreign policy. Indeed they may view NATO as being overly dominated by the US considering NATO deployments to Afghanistan and against Serbia in the past. I suppose it is arguable that the need for NATO to continue to exist is past and it is time to consider some new forms of security arrangements for Europe.
Fascinating study. They are unhappy at the NATO expansion and yet see it as undesirable to join. Certainly understandable, after being considered a military superpower for so long I imagine Russians would not take kindly to any percieved restrictions on their conducting an independant foreign policy. Indeed they may view NATO as being overly dominated by the US considering NATO deployments to Afghanistan and against Serbia in the past. I suppose it is arguable that the need for NATO to continue to exist is past and it is time to consider some new forms of security arrangements for Europe.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Russia Joining WTO.
I think that what we will find in terms of Russia's remergence and its membership of the WTO, the G8, maybe NATO or even the EU one day is that Russia has always, always been a special case, a gigantic country which is in one way European while in another way, completely different. It may one day be a partner in NATO in some way, though I don't see it ever being really a member of the EU, its too large, and its interests are too divergent, but never say never i suppose. I generally agree with the views that Russia should be treated with respect and friendship, but also it should be remembered that the interests of Russia and Europe or Russia and the U.S. will often be different, and that Russia is not a country that can ever be dominated by force, though its not afraid to use force to get its own ends against weaker neighbours (never has been) and that the long term goal should be peaceful cooperation and mutual trade, and defence agreements, though its useful to have a stick handy when they are around, they can be tricky customers.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Russia Joining WTO.
Scrat;455517 wrote: You all are correct in many ways. I would like the see Russia as part of the EU, with the raw material wealth she has available think that combined with European and Chinese capacities the Eurasian supercontinent could become the throne of the world. And who would be in the catbird seat?
I think that Russia is a bridge. Always has been always will be and if it can keep the stability has the potential to become very well off.
All she has to do is keep the bridge between east and west in good condition and not be too much of a troll. I think that is the state of mind of Russia now. The future? Who knows.
Its interesting, I don't think that Russia joining the EU is really viable except in the very long term, like say 75 years from now. Its difficult enough trying to make the EU effective as it is, and adding Russia would I think be very destabilizing and probably dangerous, I don't think Russia wants it, or the EU either at the moment. That said, it is definetly in the interests of both Russia and the EU to have a strong strategic partnership in the same what its vital that the EU maintains a strong partnership with the U.S. through NATO etc. I think that the future of Russia is a fascinting one, and it will be pivotal in the years to come as to what way Russia develops. I do tend to agree that Russia is a link between east and west and should be maintained as a good partner, while keeping an eye on them, especially in the Caususes and Central Asia.
I think that Russia is a bridge. Always has been always will be and if it can keep the stability has the potential to become very well off.
All she has to do is keep the bridge between east and west in good condition and not be too much of a troll. I think that is the state of mind of Russia now. The future? Who knows.
Its interesting, I don't think that Russia joining the EU is really viable except in the very long term, like say 75 years from now. Its difficult enough trying to make the EU effective as it is, and adding Russia would I think be very destabilizing and probably dangerous, I don't think Russia wants it, or the EU either at the moment. That said, it is definetly in the interests of both Russia and the EU to have a strong strategic partnership in the same what its vital that the EU maintains a strong partnership with the U.S. through NATO etc. I think that the future of Russia is a fascinting one, and it will be pivotal in the years to come as to what way Russia develops. I do tend to agree that Russia is a link between east and west and should be maintained as a good partner, while keeping an eye on them, especially in the Caususes and Central Asia.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Russia Joining WTO.
Scrat;455655 wrote: Why is that? The meddling of the west in Central Asia is much like what Muqtada Al Sadir is doing in Baghdad. Get influence wherever and create instability (divide and conquer) until things go your way. Maintain that instability until you have what you want. If you create and then lose "your" version of stability revert back to creating instability.
This is not only bad for a region it has profound effects on the states involved in the long term. Infrastructures are ruined, populations disband and when this cycle is repeated often enough there is little value in a given area left. It usually requires enormous economic investment to get things going again.
If you read about the collapse of the Soviet Union and what happened in that region in the 1990s I think that you would find differently. The standards enforced by the Soviet Union are what kept that region stable, anyone knows that with the end of the Union it disintegrated into chaos.
Since then there has been interests meddling and creating instability to the detriment of the nations involved. Western interests.
The value of this is no mystery, there is none at all.
Why do you think we need to "keep an eye" on Russia in her own back yard? Just curious.
Because it is necessary to do so of course, as Russia's policies do not often correlate to our own, this is particularly the case for the European Union as say for exampe Russia's current policy in the Caucuses is having a certain impact on the region, Turkey is currently in protracted negotiation with the EU to join the Union, turkey is deeply ambivalent about the Russians, and also considers the Caucuses its "back yard", therefore the EU has to be aware of what Russia (and turkey) is up to and have a policy on such matters. Also of course a lot of Europe's oil and gas supplies are involved here and that is the direct strategic interest of the 650 million or so citizens of the EU.
This is not only bad for a region it has profound effects on the states involved in the long term. Infrastructures are ruined, populations disband and when this cycle is repeated often enough there is little value in a given area left. It usually requires enormous economic investment to get things going again.
If you read about the collapse of the Soviet Union and what happened in that region in the 1990s I think that you would find differently. The standards enforced by the Soviet Union are what kept that region stable, anyone knows that with the end of the Union it disintegrated into chaos.
Since then there has been interests meddling and creating instability to the detriment of the nations involved. Western interests.
The value of this is no mystery, there is none at all.
Why do you think we need to "keep an eye" on Russia in her own back yard? Just curious.
Because it is necessary to do so of course, as Russia's policies do not often correlate to our own, this is particularly the case for the European Union as say for exampe Russia's current policy in the Caucuses is having a certain impact on the region, Turkey is currently in protracted negotiation with the EU to join the Union, turkey is deeply ambivalent about the Russians, and also considers the Caucuses its "back yard", therefore the EU has to be aware of what Russia (and turkey) is up to and have a policy on such matters. Also of course a lot of Europe's oil and gas supplies are involved here and that is the direct strategic interest of the 650 million or so citizens of the EU.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Russia Joining WTO.
Scrat;455856 wrote: All legit reasons except for the Turks. What this comes down to is control of the countries that have the oil lines going through them. I fail to see what the Turks have at stake here other than most likely some old history.
I certainly do not think they have been the kindest of stewards in the past either. For Turkey to dominate the Caucasus will only bring further strife, old resentments would boil again and conflict would rule the day. They can however work indirectly and make a big difference from the near distance.
I really don't know who should hold sway there, I do know that without someone to keep all of the different ethnic groups in line it will never be stable. Western meddling has never resulted in anything good for anyone there.
I think that eventually things will stabilize and improve provided the major powers (Russia, Turkey, China, Iran, Ukraine) are left in peace to influence from the near distance. Death squads sponsored by America and Britain backing up Harvard educated pocket despots like Shakeasswilly are not going to get anyone anywhere.
That is the kind of "keeping an eye on" the Europeans should be worried about. It will come back to bite them in the butt sooner or later.
The Caucasus is a local problem and best kept that way.
I agree that Turkey also has its own particular issues and interests that are not the same as those of the EU, but like Russia, they are different and you have to respect that. When I say keeping an eye, thats what I mean, I don't suggest that Europe should involve itself in the Causcuses or central Asia, simply that events in these regions should be watched closely and approriate stances made where there are issues that effect Europe in one way or another, I'm not suggesting that Europe should act in an agressive or neo-colonialst (I've decided to start using that phrase as it seem's popular at the minute) manner.
I certainly do not think they have been the kindest of stewards in the past either. For Turkey to dominate the Caucasus will only bring further strife, old resentments would boil again and conflict would rule the day. They can however work indirectly and make a big difference from the near distance.
I really don't know who should hold sway there, I do know that without someone to keep all of the different ethnic groups in line it will never be stable. Western meddling has never resulted in anything good for anyone there.
I think that eventually things will stabilize and improve provided the major powers (Russia, Turkey, China, Iran, Ukraine) are left in peace to influence from the near distance. Death squads sponsored by America and Britain backing up Harvard educated pocket despots like Shakeasswilly are not going to get anyone anywhere.
That is the kind of "keeping an eye on" the Europeans should be worried about. It will come back to bite them in the butt sooner or later.
The Caucasus is a local problem and best kept that way.
I agree that Turkey also has its own particular issues and interests that are not the same as those of the EU, but like Russia, they are different and you have to respect that. When I say keeping an eye, thats what I mean, I don't suggest that Europe should involve itself in the Causcuses or central Asia, simply that events in these regions should be watched closely and approriate stances made where there are issues that effect Europe in one way or another, I'm not suggesting that Europe should act in an agressive or neo-colonialst (I've decided to start using that phrase as it seem's popular at the minute) manner.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Russia Joining WTO.
Scrat;455882 wrote: It seems the solution would be to let Russia and Turkey keep the peace where needed and let the EU and China support those efforts from afar. I definitely think Russia has the better chance with the keeping of the peace.
I think Russia needs to put the EU high on its buddy buddy list too as they seem to be doing. It's a really interesting balancing act to watch unfold. Ireally think that the EU has to tell america to get to hell out of the region.
I don't think that the EU is in a position to do so, and it would not be wise for Europe to try dictate foreign policy to the U.S., (in short it would not work and would serve only to damage relations) though of course the EU does have influence in the Whitehouse, but as an constructive ally that can on occasion push the U.S. administration to adopt perhaps less unilateral policies in foriegn affairs. After all the EU is an economic superpower, but not a military or political one, so its quite limited in what it can achieve. I think following Iraq the U.S. is in a frame of mind to persue more multilateral polcies in the world.
I think Russia needs to put the EU high on its buddy buddy list too as they seem to be doing. It's a really interesting balancing act to watch unfold. Ireally think that the EU has to tell america to get to hell out of the region.
I don't think that the EU is in a position to do so, and it would not be wise for Europe to try dictate foreign policy to the U.S., (in short it would not work and would serve only to damage relations) though of course the EU does have influence in the Whitehouse, but as an constructive ally that can on occasion push the U.S. administration to adopt perhaps less unilateral policies in foriegn affairs. After all the EU is an economic superpower, but not a military or political one, so its quite limited in what it can achieve. I think following Iraq the U.S. is in a frame of mind to persue more multilateral polcies in the world.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Russia Joining WTO.
I don't think that the EU is in a position to do so, and it would not be wise for Europe to try dictate foreign policy to the U.S., (in short it would not work and would serve only to damage relations) though of course the EU does have influence in the Whitehouse, but as an constructive ally that can on occasion push the U.S. administration to adopt perhaps less unilateral policies in foriegn affairs. After all the EU is an economic superpower, but not a military or political one, so its quite limited in what it can achieve. I think following Iraq the U.S. is in a frame of mind to persue more multilateral polcies in the world anyway at this stage.[/QUOTE]
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.