The whole shebang will be flushed
I would say that the basic facts that we have, with which to start the search for the cusp of instinctive and reasoned behavior might be:
1) Somewhere in the chain of life, from its mysterious beginning to the present, there exists a point when the behavior of creatures is influenced by something we call reason rather than something we call instinct.
2) Using computer lingo, we can classify instinct as behavior caused by hardwired algorithms.
3) Reason is a means to control behavior based upon real time assessment of real time circumstances.
4) Reason requires that data from the senses be ordered into some fashion that will facilitate real time inferences, this is called conceptualization; followed by inferences made from these concepts.
5) We have, from computer modeling technology, empirical evidence that the neural system that control perception and mobility have the capacity to conceptualize and to infer. In other words, the essential elements of sensorimotor control are also similar to the essential elements of reasoning.
6) If biology has created the structure that has the elements for reasoning, it is logical to conclude that such a system would not be duplicated for reason but that this very same system would be modified in whatever manner is necessary for it to function also as an instrument that can reason.
Instinct controlled the behavior of creatures until reason kicked in and now humans are controlled to a large extent by reason rather than instinct. Throughout time the evolutionary process, which includes instinctive behavior, maintained some form of equilibrium in the world. With the introduction of rational creatures this evolutionary process has been drastically disrupted.
As reasoning creatures that have disrupted the evolutionary process, we must replace this evolutionary process with a rational process that can duplicate or improve on the natural evolutionary process. If we cannot perform this prodigious task adequately the whole shebang will be flushed down the toilet.
Secretary of State Powell said in regards to the Iraq war that “if we break it, we own it. I think we can say the same thing about our human activity and natural evolution. We break natural evolution and thereby we own the problems caused by that action.
The whole shebang will be flushed
The whole shebang will be flushed
by coberst
4) Reason requires that data from the senses be ordered into some fashion that will facilitate real time inferences, this is called conceptualization; followed by inferences made from these concepts.
and what if the senses lie? what if they report on what is not really there?
then the concepts are not real, and the whole system collapses like a house of cards..
4) Reason requires that data from the senses be ordered into some fashion that will facilitate real time inferences, this is called conceptualization; followed by inferences made from these concepts.
and what if the senses lie? what if they report on what is not really there?
then the concepts are not real, and the whole system collapses like a house of cards..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
The whole shebang will be flushed
so far, our power of reasoning has really got us far. (i say that tongue in cheek).
The whole shebang will be flushed
zinkyusa wrote: by coberst
and what if the senses lie? what if they report on what is not really there?
then the concepts are not real, and the whole system collapses like a house of cards..
The senses lie? Really, this must be a joke. Reminds me of the saying of a comedian "who you going to believe , me or your lying eyes?"
and what if the senses lie? what if they report on what is not really there?
then the concepts are not real, and the whole system collapses like a house of cards..
The senses lie? Really, this must be a joke. Reminds me of the saying of a comedian "who you going to believe , me or your lying eyes?"
The whole shebang will be flushed
coberst wrote: The senses lie? Really, this must be a joke. Reminds me of the saying of a comedian "who you going to believe , me or your lying eyes?"
Of course they lie. I think I read on one of your posts you were/are an engineer. In that case perhaps you have read something of quantum physics? Quantum physics proves there is no duality at the sub-atomic level of "things" how can there be duality at the macro-level we seem to experience unless our senses are reporting something to our minds that isn't really there..Things do not really exist at the sub-atomic level they only have some probablity of existing. Things exist only as probablity until they are actually observed by a "mind" or a "measuring apparatus. So how can this be real? The senses really do lie.
Of course they lie. I think I read on one of your posts you were/are an engineer. In that case perhaps you have read something of quantum physics? Quantum physics proves there is no duality at the sub-atomic level of "things" how can there be duality at the macro-level we seem to experience unless our senses are reporting something to our minds that isn't really there..Things do not really exist at the sub-atomic level they only have some probablity of existing. Things exist only as probablity until they are actually observed by a "mind" or a "measuring apparatus. So how can this be real? The senses really do lie.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
The whole shebang will be flushed
Zink..
Our vision does not lie perhaps our judgment might be in error or we may consciously seek to lie to one another. QM is a set of mathematical equations that are very accurate at determining the probability of certain things happening within the atom.
Our vision does not lie perhaps our judgment might be in error or we may consciously seek to lie to one another. QM is a set of mathematical equations that are very accurate at determining the probability of certain things happening within the atom.
The whole shebang will be flushed
zinkyusa wrote: Of course they lie. I think I read on one of your posts you were/are an engineer. In that case perhaps you have read something of quantum physics? Quantum physics proves there is no duality at the sub-atomic level of "things" how can there be duality at the macro-level we seem to experience unless our senses are reporting something to our minds that isn't really there..Things do not really exist at the sub-atomic level they only have some probablity of existing. Things exist only as probablity until they are actually observed by a "mind" or a "measuring apparatus. So how can this be real? The senses really do lie.
they don't lie they translate reality like an artist painting a picture of what he/she sees. the interpretation is not exact but it's close enough that we all experience the same world.
correct?
they don't lie they translate reality like an artist painting a picture of what he/she sees. the interpretation is not exact but it's close enough that we all experience the same world.
correct?
The whole shebang will be flushed
ARgi wrote: they don't lie they translate reality like an artist painting a picture of what he/she sees. the interpretation is not exact but it's close enough that we all experience the same world.
correct?
we all seem to experience the same illusion (hallucination) would be my choice of words ARgi..
correct?
we all seem to experience the same illusion (hallucination) would be my choice of words ARgi..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.