Just posted these lyrics in another thread but got to wondering. If you wrote a letter to God what would it say?
Dear God (XTC)
, hope you got the letter, and...
I pray you can make it better down here.
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
but all the people that you made in your image, see
them starving on their feet 'cause they don't get
enough to eat from God, I can't believe in you
Dear God, sorry to disturb you, but... I feel that I should be heard
loud and clear. We all need a big reduction in amount of tears
and all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
in the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God,
I can't believe in you
Did you make disease, and the diamond blue? Did you make
mankind after we made you? And the devil too!
, don't know if you noticed, but... your name is on
a lot of quotes in this book, and us crazy humans wrote it, you
should take a look, and all the people that you made in your
image still believing that junk is true. Well I know it ain't, and
so do you, dear God, I can't believe in I don't believe in
I won't believe in heaven and hell. No saints, no sinners, no
devil as well. No pearly gates, no thorny crown. You're always
letting us humans down. The wars you bring, the babes you
drown. Those lost at sea and never found, and it's the same the
whole world 'round. The hurt I see helps to compound that
Father, Son and Holy Ghost is just somebody's unholy hoax,
and if you're up there you'd perceive that my heart's here upon
my sleeve. If there's one thing I don't believe in
it's you....
Dear God
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RedGlitter
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Dear God
koan wrote: Just posted these lyrics in another thread but got to wondering. If you wrote a letter to God what would it say?
"Why?"
That's all. I just want to know the why of it all. The purpose.
Those lyrics seem angry. They remind me of really bad poetry I used to write in high school. And they remind me of being 17, idealistic, rebellious and ticked off at the world because I thought I should be. They also don't reflect my religious beliefs.
I don't have anger toward (my) God like that anymore. Maybe it's because I keep studying and looking for answers and at this point in time, I feel pretty satisfied with them.
It's humans I have all the questions for. To me, God makes sense but people don't.
The only beef I have with God is why hurt the animals?!
Did I answer the Q? :-2
"Why?"
That's all. I just want to know the why of it all. The purpose.
Those lyrics seem angry. They remind me of really bad poetry I used to write in high school. And they remind me of being 17, idealistic, rebellious and ticked off at the world because I thought I should be. They also don't reflect my religious beliefs.
I don't have anger toward (my) God like that anymore. Maybe it's because I keep studying and looking for answers and at this point in time, I feel pretty satisfied with them.
It's humans I have all the questions for. To me, God makes sense but people don't.
The only beef I have with God is why hurt the animals?!
Did I answer the Q? :-2
Dear God
RedGlitter wrote: "Why?"
That's all. I just want to know the why of it all. The purpose.
Those lyrics seem angry. They remind me of really bad poetry I used to write in high school. And they remind me of being 17, idealistic, rebellious and ticked off at the world because I thought I should be. They also don't reflect my religious beliefs.
I don't have anger toward (my) God like that anymore. Maybe it's because I keep studying and looking for answers and at this point in time, I feel pretty satisfied with them.
It's humans I have all the questions for. To me, God makes sense but people don't.
The only beef I have with God is why hurt the animals?!
Did I answer the Q? :-2
You did answer it but likely all you'd get in response is "why what?"
The lyrics are angry, yes. The song is brilliant. Sarah McLaughlin did a version of it too. But she made it sound less angry.
That's all. I just want to know the why of it all. The purpose.
Those lyrics seem angry. They remind me of really bad poetry I used to write in high school. And they remind me of being 17, idealistic, rebellious and ticked off at the world because I thought I should be. They also don't reflect my religious beliefs.
I don't have anger toward (my) God like that anymore. Maybe it's because I keep studying and looking for answers and at this point in time, I feel pretty satisfied with them.
It's humans I have all the questions for. To me, God makes sense but people don't.
The only beef I have with God is why hurt the animals?!
Did I answer the Q? :-2
You did answer it but likely all you'd get in response is "why what?"
The lyrics are angry, yes. The song is brilliant. Sarah McLaughlin did a version of it too. But she made it sound less angry.
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Dear God
I choose to believe that God is our Father, who art in Heaven who wants the very best for us because He loves us. Within this framework, not everything makes sense, but without it, nothing does.
If there is a room full of toddlers, some are going to take advantage of others. One might, say, take a toy away from another child. To the one who's toy was stolen, the world had just turned on its head. Nothing is fair! So he cries. Nowadays, some might want to intervene - comfort the crier while explaining to the thief why that's not nice. But others will simply let the scene play out, knowing that it's really not serious in the whole scheme of things.
I choose to believe that our Father is of the latter variety. Maybe from God's perspective, knowing the really big picture, death and starvation are more along the lines of a baby falling and bumping his butt as he learns to walk. I can't know that now. All I can do is act in a way I would hope pleases Him.
Coming from this basis, I think the lyrics are very short-sighted and selfish.
If there is a room full of toddlers, some are going to take advantage of others. One might, say, take a toy away from another child. To the one who's toy was stolen, the world had just turned on its head. Nothing is fair! So he cries. Nowadays, some might want to intervene - comfort the crier while explaining to the thief why that's not nice. But others will simply let the scene play out, knowing that it's really not serious in the whole scheme of things.
I choose to believe that our Father is of the latter variety. Maybe from God's perspective, knowing the really big picture, death and starvation are more along the lines of a baby falling and bumping his butt as he learns to walk. I can't know that now. All I can do is act in a way I would hope pleases Him.
Coming from this basis, I think the lyrics are very short-sighted and selfish.
Dear God
So why is everyone so sure God created the world or has anything to do with it? Have you ever it considered the possibility that the world is a place to hide from God?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Dear God
zinkyusa wrote: So why is everyone so sure God created the world or has anything to do with it? Have you ever it considered the possibility that the world is a place to hide from God?
I've never heard it put that way before. Interesting supposition.
I've never heard it put that way before. Interesting supposition.
Dear God
koan wrote: I've never heard it put that way before. Interesting supposition.
Just an alternative possibility. I don't like to accept premises unchallanged.
Just an alternative possibility. I don't like to accept premises unchallanged.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Dear God
"a place to hide from God" implies a belief in God yet the concept that one could hide from such a being. Is your God so limited?
Dear God
koan wrote: "a place to hide from God" implies a belief in God yet the concept that one could hide from such a being. Is your God so limited?
Well I use the term God to mean oneness in my belief system.. So what you would have is a situation where "part" of oneness preferred not oneness or separation from oneness..creating an impossible situation. How could true oneness have separate part? It can't, but their can be a "belief" in that separation and this is what we call the "physical" universe. Quantum physics says there is nothing "physical" about it.
Well I use the term God to mean oneness in my belief system.. So what you would have is a situation where "part" of oneness preferred not oneness or separation from oneness..creating an impossible situation. How could true oneness have separate part? It can't, but their can be a "belief" in that separation and this is what we call the "physical" universe. Quantum physics says there is nothing "physical" about it.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Dear God
zinkyusa wrote: So why is everyone so sure God created the world or has anything to do with it? Have you ever it considered the possibility that the world is a place to hide from God?
No....can't say that I have considered that. :-3
I understand why people get angry and lose their faith or perhaps never had any to begin with, I just don't feel that way myself. Mind you though, I'm not a blind-faithed religious zealot by any means. I wonder, I disagree and I keep seeking answers. I also don't put my beliefs onto others so I hope it doesn't look like that here.
I can't really explain why I am sure God created the World. I guess I have no better explanation. I accept the scientific explanation too but I think God came before science so... but that's just me.
Why Zinky, do you think the world is a hiding place? And considering all the bad stuff in our world, could it be better than wherever we go when we croak?
No....can't say that I have considered that. :-3
I understand why people get angry and lose their faith or perhaps never had any to begin with, I just don't feel that way myself. Mind you though, I'm not a blind-faithed religious zealot by any means. I wonder, I disagree and I keep seeking answers. I also don't put my beliefs onto others so I hope it doesn't look like that here.
I can't really explain why I am sure God created the World. I guess I have no better explanation. I accept the scientific explanation too but I think God came before science so... but that's just me.
Why Zinky, do you think the world is a hiding place? And considering all the bad stuff in our world, could it be better than wherever we go when we croak?
Dear God
Accountable:-6
A very good post indeed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
RedGlitter:-6
I am presently involved in a workshop that will last 10 days. The title is "Living the Question". It seems to me that is what you are doing. Good approach.
There are of course no absolute answers to many of the questions we ask. But as we ask more and more we begin to refine our questions and the questions simply point us in the right direction. There are no linguistic answers to the questions concerning the great mystery of the Divine. Metaphor is all we have and they only point us in a direction.
As members of a faith it is called "hope" and having trust in the great Divine mystery. Even the name God is a metaphor and it has become somewhat hollow. Many are switching to the word Divine.
Shalom
Ted:-6
A very good post indeed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
RedGlitter:-6
I am presently involved in a workshop that will last 10 days. The title is "Living the Question". It seems to me that is what you are doing. Good approach.
There are of course no absolute answers to many of the questions we ask. But as we ask more and more we begin to refine our questions and the questions simply point us in the right direction. There are no linguistic answers to the questions concerning the great mystery of the Divine. Metaphor is all we have and they only point us in a direction.
As members of a faith it is called "hope" and having trust in the great Divine mystery. Even the name God is a metaphor and it has become somewhat hollow. Many are switching to the word Divine.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Dear God
RedGlitter wrote: No....can't say that I have considered that. :-3
I understand why people get angry and lose their faith or perhaps never had any to begin with, I just don't feel that way myself. Mind you though, I'm not a blind-faithed religious zealot by any means. I wonder, I disagree and I keep seeking answers. I also don't put my beliefs onto others so I hope it doesn't look like that here.
I can't really explain why I am sure God created the World. I guess I have no better explanation. I accept the scientific explanation too but I think God came before science so... but that's just me.
Why Zinky, do you think the world is a hiding place? And considering all the bad stuff in our world, could it be better than wherever we go when we croak?
I think it's a hiding place becuase it makes sense to me I guess. Why would a loving God make such a horrible place? Answer I don't think a loving God would.
I understand why people get angry and lose their faith or perhaps never had any to begin with, I just don't feel that way myself. Mind you though, I'm not a blind-faithed religious zealot by any means. I wonder, I disagree and I keep seeking answers. I also don't put my beliefs onto others so I hope it doesn't look like that here.
I can't really explain why I am sure God created the World. I guess I have no better explanation. I accept the scientific explanation too but I think God came before science so... but that's just me.
Why Zinky, do you think the world is a hiding place? And considering all the bad stuff in our world, could it be better than wherever we go when we croak?
I think it's a hiding place becuase it makes sense to me I guess. Why would a loving God make such a horrible place? Answer I don't think a loving God would.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
-
RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Dear God
zinkyusa wrote: I think it's a hiding place becuase it makes sense to me I guess. Why would a loving God make such a horrible place? Answer I don't think a loving God would.
I can respect that, Zinky. And I have asked that to myself many times.
I could go off on such a tangent here explaining all that I am reading and considering, regarding God and Life's Purpose and what I think at present, but I will try to keep short instead.
Try. :wah: There's that theory that talks about free will...and the theory that speaks of "bad things happen to good people" because of something called "Soul Growth." For the most part, I can accept the Soul Growth idea...but I still falter on it sometimes.
I am enjoying this discussion very much.
I can respect that, Zinky. And I have asked that to myself many times.
I could go off on such a tangent here explaining all that I am reading and considering, regarding God and Life's Purpose and what I think at present, but I will try to keep short instead.
Try. :wah: There's that theory that talks about free will...and the theory that speaks of "bad things happen to good people" because of something called "Soul Growth." For the most part, I can accept the Soul Growth idea...but I still falter on it sometimes.I am enjoying this discussion very much.
Dear God
There is nowhere we are promised an easy go of it. What is promised is that He will be there to us through the rough times.
RedGlitter, you are correct about free will. Funny how folks want free will but when something bad happens they want the Divine to interfere. It seems to me we can't have it both ways. Either we want free will or we do not.
**** happens. That is part of the human condition.
Instead of us sitting around bitching about it what are we doing to help alleviate the problem? Perhaps we don't feel we should shoulder responsibility for our lives and that of others.
Shalom
Ted:-6
RedGlitter, you are correct about free will. Funny how folks want free will but when something bad happens they want the Divine to interfere. It seems to me we can't have it both ways. Either we want free will or we do not.
**** happens. That is part of the human condition.
Instead of us sitting around bitching about it what are we doing to help alleviate the problem? Perhaps we don't feel we should shoulder responsibility for our lives and that of others.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Dear God
zinkyusa wrote: I think it's a hiding place becuase it makes sense to me I guess. Why would a loving God make such a horrible place? Answer I don't think a loving God would.Horrible?!? Compared to what?
Dear God
Actually I think it is man that has made things problematic. It is not the Creator or the creation other than human beings.
We can hardly blame God, if you so believe, for the mess we have created. We have used our skills to produce negative things.
Shalom
Ted:-6
We can hardly blame God, if you so believe, for the mess we have created. We have used our skills to produce negative things.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Dear God
Hi Ted,
I agree that most of our troubles are caused by us, but I can understand how a person could look at some of the things that happen in our world and ask "where was God?!" personally at this point in my life, I can accept the explanation that it's part of everyone's growth, part of The Plan That I'm Not Supposed to Understand.
That said though, what is your take on say, why God would allow things that are so surreally heinous; such as killers who eat their victims and rape victims who are brutally sodomized and babies who are willfully killed? Why would God allow such awful things to happen to decent people who have done nothing to deserve such treatment? Is it their kharma for a past deed?
I shudder whenever I hear that platitude "God never gives you more than (he knows) you can handle." I know it's a tired example, but I must ask- did all those Jews get vivisected, shot, starved, buried alive and cremated because God knew they could handle it?
How do these things work according to what you study?
I ask in sincerity and only if you are comfy in responding. I don't mean to seem argumentative an dI also have no intention of being nosy. Just wanted to be clear on that since we're talking about a deeply touchy and personal issue here.
Thanks!
:)
I agree that most of our troubles are caused by us, but I can understand how a person could look at some of the things that happen in our world and ask "where was God?!" personally at this point in my life, I can accept the explanation that it's part of everyone's growth, part of The Plan That I'm Not Supposed to Understand.
That said though, what is your take on say, why God would allow things that are so surreally heinous; such as killers who eat their victims and rape victims who are brutally sodomized and babies who are willfully killed? Why would God allow such awful things to happen to decent people who have done nothing to deserve such treatment? Is it their kharma for a past deed?
I shudder whenever I hear that platitude "God never gives you more than (he knows) you can handle." I know it's a tired example, but I must ask- did all those Jews get vivisected, shot, starved, buried alive and cremated because God knew they could handle it?
How do these things work according to what you study?
I ask in sincerity and only if you are comfy in responding. I don't mean to seem argumentative an dI also have no intention of being nosy. Just wanted to be clear on that since we're talking about a deeply touchy and personal issue here.
Thanks!
:)
Dear God
RedGlitter:-6
I have no problem in responding to any question.
There is the idea that we were given free will. We have assumed that free will and run with it. That seems to be what we want. We really can't have it both ways; God leaves us alone in the good times and interferes in the bad times. Somehow or another that does not make logical sense.
I think that we see in the Easter events as well as in the Lazarus story that God does suffer. I think that when these horrible things happens, God does not will them but most certainly he suffers along with his creation.
One might ask "Why doesn't he stop them?" If He does that what happens to our free will?
As I said before we were not promised an easy time of it but He did promise to see us through the rough times. I and many others have felt that that is exactly what happens. Generally, we come out the other end still intact and still feeling that we were indeed helped through it.
If you want some ideas on "omnipotence" I can certainly present some thoughts.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I have no problem in responding to any question.
There is the idea that we were given free will. We have assumed that free will and run with it. That seems to be what we want. We really can't have it both ways; God leaves us alone in the good times and interferes in the bad times. Somehow or another that does not make logical sense.
I think that we see in the Easter events as well as in the Lazarus story that God does suffer. I think that when these horrible things happens, God does not will them but most certainly he suffers along with his creation.
One might ask "Why doesn't he stop them?" If He does that what happens to our free will?
As I said before we were not promised an easy time of it but He did promise to see us through the rough times. I and many others have felt that that is exactly what happens. Generally, we come out the other end still intact and still feeling that we were indeed helped through it.
If you want some ideas on "omnipotence" I can certainly present some thoughts.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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RedGlitter
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Dear God
Hi Ted
Thank you, I would love to hear your thoughts. I have to do some thinking about your answer. Much to consider.
Thank you, I would love to hear your thoughts. I have to do some thinking about your answer. Much to consider.
Dear God
RedGlitter:-6
The word "omnipotent" means the same as Al-mighty or all powerful.
If you think about it "power" is a relational word. That is that it is used as a comparison; the mom is more powerful than the infant; the wrestler is more powerful than the average man on the street. The American army is more powerful than the Lebanese army.
Thus power has to be looked at in a relational way. Compared to man God is much more powerful.
Does that mean that He can control and do anything He wants? Does that mean that He can stop the earth from turning for 24 hours as in the story of Joshua? For man God is all powerful but what about His relationhip in the above questions? I don't believe there is a definitive answer. It is a question, an ambiguity with which we simply have to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The word "omnipotent" means the same as Al-mighty or all powerful.
If you think about it "power" is a relational word. That is that it is used as a comparison; the mom is more powerful than the infant; the wrestler is more powerful than the average man on the street. The American army is more powerful than the Lebanese army.
Thus power has to be looked at in a relational way. Compared to man God is much more powerful.
Does that mean that He can control and do anything He wants? Does that mean that He can stop the earth from turning for 24 hours as in the story of Joshua? For man God is all powerful but what about His relationhip in the above questions? I don't believe there is a definitive answer. It is a question, an ambiguity with which we simply have to live.
Shalom
Ted:-6