'The Christian Dominionistas Just Don't Get It'

CVX · Post by **CVX** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:45 pm

By Karl W. B. Schwarz

A Conservative Christian Republican

I have decided that our American lexicon needs a new word - Dominionistas, noun, plural, definition - groups whose religious beliefs obstruct critical thinking on matters of fairness, equity, Christ-like qualities, confusion between goodness and sin; cultists; persons of Neocon beliefs, fascists, persons of narrow mindedness.

The commentary today is yet another open letter to Christian Dominionistas who need to step away from the Kool-aid and have a long talk with God and Jesus Christ about what Christianity is, and more importantly - what Christianity is not. They might as well call themselves Zionist Christians, for some erroneously do and do not "get it" when myself or anyone else explains to them that Zionist Christians is in fact an oxymoron, or two words that have no business being used together. Sort of like "jumbo shrimp", or "military intelligence", or "Bush Compassionate Conservatism" being just three operative examples of what to look for when seeking an example of an oxymoron.

Most Christians do not "get it" when it is explained that there is a massive movement in Judaism, simply named Jews Against Zionism, fighting to rid their religion of Zionist. Many Christians just do not get it that the term Zionist can be pushed to such an extreme that it is a substitute word for fascist. It has happened in Judaism and it is happening in Christianity and neither are "religious based movements". They are based on evil, greed, power, domination; all things that are quite Un-Christ-like. They are "cults" in their sheerest definition[1] and are not God and Christ centered, they are people, power and greed centered. They call wrong right and right wrong. "This article provides more information that demonstrates that far from being the saviors of the Jewish People, the Zionists are the true self-hating Jews who have had nothing but contempt and outright hatred for the Jewish People and Judaism.[2] This article proves that anti-Semitism has been the oxygen and lifeblood of the Zionists throughout the ages to the present day.

"By contrast, we anti-Zionist Jews having been doing all we can to reduce hatred of Jews by proclaiming the true nature of the Jewish religion in contrast to the heresy and idolatry of Zionism.[3] We hope this will help Jews awaken from the brainwashing of the Zionists."

I know many Christians that need to start weaning themselves from the brainwashing of the Dominionistas and the Republican Neocon Fascists that have taken control of the RNC. Christianity is not about power, greed, entitlement, world conquest, Empire building, or looking the other way on the evil that is going on inside of our government ÃƒÂ± in our name - and wrapping that up in the flag and pretending that evil and wrong conduct is Christianity.

Such a recent example is Congressman Tom DeLay, R-TX, the powerful House Majority Leader who was reprimanded by the House Ethics Committee for shady dealings, is apparently going to be indicted in the State of Texas for election law violations, and articulates a dominionist theological imperative and even spoke of such in a recent interview in Worldview Weekend[4]:

"He [God] is using me, all the time, everywhere, to stand up for a biblical worldview in everything that I do and everywhere I am. He is training me."

Well Tom, next time you pray to God ask him to give you training in Biblical worldview as it relates to Christian love, tolerance, forgiveness, evenhandedness, and even honesty, all words that do not describe your politics or political warmongering in the least bit, and while you are at it, Tom, talk to God about obeying the election laws in the State of Texas, since they are in your own Dominionist views ÃƒÂ± God based. Also, take the God Course of Accountability and when you break the law, do not go running to the majority leadership of the U.S. Congress to grant you a waiver from being held accountable. You talk it, now walk it. Be a man and face your punishment for being a fraud Christian and a dirty politician.

Yes, Tom, you can consider that a Christian rebuke, from a Christian that clearly sees that you are a Dominionista Fascist. If you don't like that Mr. Delay, here is something from the Bible just for you:

NIV, Proverbs 17:10: A rebuke impresses a man of discernment more than a hundred lashes a fool.

The website TheocracyWatch.org also provides interesting reading on this phenomenon of Christians who suddenly think that globalization, warmongering, liars in power, dead and maimed soldiers due to those lies, and the sheer corruption in DC is "okay" because the overall objectives of conquering the world for Christ, by the shock and awe technique so to speak, is what they are after. They just don't get it that such actions prove beyond a doubt the shallowness or absence of Christianity in them, not that they are somehow "Super Christians".

They don't seem to grasp that their conduct is not Christian; it is pure, unadulterated fascism.

"The twin surges of Christians into GOP ranks in the early 1980s and early 1990s have begun to bear fruit, as naive, idealistic recruits have transformed into savvy operatives and leaders, building organizations, winning leadership positions, fighting onto platform committees, and electing many of their own to public office."

It would be helpful if these Far Right Dominionistas woke up and realized that such was the groundwork for Hitler's takeover of Germany, but then they would have to admit that they are not Christians, there are mere Neocons that are neo-conning all of us and they are Dominionista Fascists. They would have to come clean in the Christian sense of that concept and that would unseat them from the power and ill-gotten gain they covet.

The terms "Christian Conservative" used together are misnomers and for describing some of the Far Right, actually yet another oxymoron. Most Christians I know, both lay and clergy, believe the dominionist movement is an aberration of Christianity [much like Zionism is to Judaism] and the movement is anything but conservative in nature, tone, or deeds.

One can see from the record budget deficit and record growth of government that dominionist care more about winning votes and staying in power than managing the budget responsibly, which is an example of "bad stewardship" any way one wants to analyze it. Christians are required to be "good stewards" but in Dominionista thinking the concept is not supported nor it is operational in daily lives. To a Dominionista, greed is good and if others go without that is okay too. It is even okay if the Dominionista's policies plunder people into the poor house, just as long as those plundered are not other Dominionistas. As the Dominionistas climb that ladder of power and greed, wealth attainment, if they walk on others that is okay too in their warped interpretation of Christianity. To a Dominionista, fascism [evil] is good because it works to achieve their goals.

In fact, that is quite ÃƒÂ± Zionesque - of them to do so.

One of the primary fiscal requirements of being a good Christian is that one must exercise "good stewardship" and the rampant spending of the Bush Administration is about the worst example of "good stewardship" in the history of government, period, not just the "Worst in U.S. government history". The Bible warns to "recognize them by their fruits" when it comes to sinners, false prophets, etc and we have plenty of examples of that in DC right now all day, every day.

Dominionistas also seek radical change, not on what the Bible says or what Christ would do, but the "Dominionista interpretation" of what the Bible says. That is one of the ways to spot a cult, that the theology is based not on Christ principles but on the interpretation of a person here on Earth[5] and not within the historical guidelines and theology of Christianity. Some of the most whacked out things I have ever heard recently did not come out of the mouths of the shrill Liberal Left, the words and ideas came out of Dominionistas on the Far Right that have a long way to go to even be marginal Christians. "George Grant[6], was Executive Director of Coral Ridge Ministries for many years and is a dominionist author and educator. He wrote in The Changing of the Guard, Biblical Principles for Political Action:

"'Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.'

"But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. (pp. 50-51)"

Well, it seems Mr. Grant needs to go back and take Civics 101 to get a better handle on why the separation of church and state is such a fundamental right of every person in this nation, including the fundamental, God given right to not be under the heel of overzealous Christians or other pseudo-Christian Dominionistas that have gone off the deep end. He also needs to show me the "real estate title section" of the Bible relating to World Conquest as a Christian imperative, for it does not exist.

I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people know that the Federalist Papers are full of evidence that this nation was not "founded" on Christian principals and was intended to embrace any religion, any free worship of God by anyone of any religion? I wonder if he would honestly re-examine his motives of interjecting his faith into government's laws if he knew more about this Nation's history, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or Civics 101? I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people were presented with the TRUTH that the Founding Father's of this great nation felt that the imposition of ANYONE'S FAITH on another was a violation of that American's civil rights and God given rights? I wonder if they would "get it" if explained to them and would they accept it? I wonder if they could grasp the concept that their rights end where mine begin? Or, that my personal relationship with God is frankly between me and God and none of their business.

I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people grasp that the Founding Fathers considered legislating morality and during the discussions, and their lifelong experiences as God-fearing men, came to the conclusion that no government should have the right to legislate morality?

Evangelical means to spread the Word of God by good example ÃƒÂ± and hint ÃƒÂ± by good example, not as murderous, bigoted heathens bent on world dominion of anyone who thinks differently than Far Right Fascism. It does not mean to conquer the world and subjugate the peoples of the world as a preparation for the Second "democratic" Coming. Bad example equals bad Christian, and no, they don't get that either.

The dominionist movement is not a movement of tolerance and they prove it over and over again in the way they attack anyone who disagrees with them. I circulated a recent article written about the use of government money to sway the Christian Far Right vote[7], and even though 50,000 received it only six responded negatively. It was one response from an "ecumenical minister" that really stood out when he threatened bodily harm on me or would destroy my computer if I circulated my writings again to Christians.

Sure thing Bubba, let's not awaken any of the sleeping sheeple and have them stampede towards the truth. We can't have that epiphany happening on his watch! We cannot have the stiff-necked people wake up and smell the coffee that they have been lured into "cultist thinking". Maybe this is a third addition to the lexicon along with Dominionistas and the Zionesque I snuck in above ÃƒÂ± that being "ecumaniacal".

What a mockery of a Christian that pseudo-Christian proved to be. His hateful words made it clear to me he was a Dominionista true, blue and redneck, and a terrorist too. Dominionism believes there is only one truth, and they want to impose that truth on the rest of the country regardless of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights even though their very conduct cannot be found as "authorized" anywhere in the Bible without twisting the words into something the Words of God do not mean. Such people see sin everywhere except in their own actions.

In the words of the Christian Coalition field director, Bill Thomson[8], the "leftist" foes should be destroyed:

"You're going to run over them. Get around them, run over the top of them, destroy them - whatever you need to do so that God's word is the word that is being practiced in Congress, town halls and state legislatures. That's your job."

These Dominionist Christians would do well to take an in-depth course on the Biblical chapter of Revelations to get a better understanding that when there is a Second Coming of Christ, he will then have authority over all Nations, and then and only then will he be the King of Kings on earth and over all Nations. At this point in time, demanding, pushing, intimidating, bullying, etc to "hold title to all things" are being anything and everything but a Christian in the truest sense of the word. They are being hedonists and pagans in some very sinful ways and only pretending to be Christian. Furthermore, when that day comes ÃƒÂ± democracy is an irrelevant concept.

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that Christians are to conquer the world, plunder it, and when the Second Coming of Christ happens we are to deliver it by quitclaim deed to the Son of God. If one digs deep enough to understand what "religious cult" means, these Dominionist are in fact a religious cult[9] that is operating way outside of what the Bible teaches and what the Bible means.

God and his Son Jesus Christ do not need the Dominionistas to twist government policy into a warped sense of Imperialism, greed and world conquest, and while doing so wrap up sheer evil and fascism as if it were a Godly act. In fact, the Bible is full of warnings about such people but they conveniently overlook those passages that clearly show that DOMINION IS GOD'S, not the Dominionista's right of entitlement as an erroneous reading or application of the Word.

God has no need for any Christian to "pave the way" for the Second Coming and any evangelist that presumes to know the mind of God, the Will of God and teaches such things to their flocks is what the Bible warned of ÃƒÂ± i.e. False Prophets. Instruments of Satan that are to be shunned and not followed, yet these Dominionistas are bound and determined to have us all living under the heels of their Fascist Dominionista boots.

That is not American and such conduct is a long way from being Christian. They just don't want you to know that.

It is time for all Americans to wake up for there are huge problems ahead for this nation and gay marriage and abortion are not what is about to put this nation under.

Please sign the Justice for 9-11.org petition if you, too, demand the truth and justice regarding September 11, 2001. There is much truth to be found and we have a National Capitol that is full of people that have an aversion to the truth. It is time that we as American Citizens get to the bottom of what they fear so much and why they fear the truth.

- Karl W. B. Schwarz lives in Little Rock, AR and is the author of "One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican Speaks Out". He is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC and I-nets Security Systems, a designer of intelligence and communications UAV systems.

http://www.karlschwarz.com kw.schwarz@worldnet.att.net

[1]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html

[2] http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

[3]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/oppos ... fodder.htm

[4]http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsA ... 2&abbr=cs_

[5]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html

[6]http://www.christianpost.com/article/ed ... t.promotes.

christian.doctrine.in.education/1.htm

[7]http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/11295/

[8]http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsA ... 7&abbr=cs_

[9]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:14 am

Wow...If this article is the new wave of Christian thought, I just might get back to church. I've been turned off for years by the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I can't worship and learn with people who think that free will is a gift from God, but they themselves get to distribute it as they see fit.

Great article - thank you for posting it.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:23 pm

All this new hype about God and so called Christian values. I think they got jealous of Islam geeting all the Good & Bad news. All on the Christian bandwagon. Become a G.W. Christian.

Jesus Saves. :-5

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:52 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections20 ... 81,00.html

How likely are these guys to succeed do you think?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:07 pm

But Americans have had all these evangelicals for years. Its nothing new to them. They love the hype and glitter. Billy Graham Jesus Crusade ect. All we used to have is the Salvation Army, other Bible street preachers in the British Isles.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:18 pm

capn buzzard

But Americans have had all these evangelicals for years. Its nothing new to them. They love the hype and glitter. Billy Graham Jesus Crusade ect. All we used to have is the Salvation Army, other Bible street preachers in the British Isles.

I have seen it suggested that stemming from the excesses of Cromwell and the Puritans there is a cultural memory in the UK psyche that makes us naturally hostile to extremes of any sort. It's a tendency burned out of us by better experiance.

Nice theory but i don't give it much credence.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:47 am

Perhaps the reason to officially separate the Church and State is that the bible advises "Let he who casts the first stone..." Under this morality the State could never go to war, could not judge anyone in a court of law etc.

The bible can be used to support just about any point of view if the quotations are chosen carefully. In fact, just about anything can be proven if the supporting evidence is compiled with great care.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:03 am

I'd sooner be under the Christian yoke,than a Islamic one :-2

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:23 pm

The Federalist Papers gives great insight as to why the founding fathers wanted to separate church and state. I highly recommend it to anyone who has an interest in this (on either side of the debate).

Capt, under an Islam yoke you'd get to have lots of wives.

But then, maybe you are wise to choose against this. LOL!

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:14 pm

Many so called believers today are actually following a group (Christianity) that began many years after Yeshua the MessiahÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s resurrection. It is the group that many of them worship and not the one whoÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s name has been used to identify it.

Just like Karl W. B. SchwarzÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s article (diatribe), what they believe in and/or practice, has some truth to it. They, like Mr. Schwarz have gathered together some anecdotal evidence along with some examples of misbehavior by those they oppose and have marched off to battle armed with megaphones and loud drums to be sure they make their point.

Mr. Schwarz has taken the writings of a dissident Rabi who does not represent a massive movement like he says and assigned credibility to what he said because it supports his (Schwarz) irritation with Ã¢â‚¬Å“ZionismÃ¢â‚¬Â or maybe even Jews themselves.

Yes, there are Christians who think they have the duty to support the far right but there are also Christians who support the far left. One extreme is just as scary as the other. Within Judaism there is just as wide a spectrum of beliefs, with extremes on both ends. So is the answer in the middle? I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t think so. I think the answer is within the full spectrum. There is truth spread across the entire length of it.

ThatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s why I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t care for labels (not even Mr. SchwarzÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s new one). He has found a group of people he doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t like, rounded them up, placed them in a box and slapped yet another label on it.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:17 pm

A Karenina wrote: Wow...If this article is the new wave of Christian thought, I just might get back to church. I've been turned off for years by the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I can't worship and learn with people who think that free will is a gift from God, but they themselves get to distribute it as they see fit.

Great article - thank you for posting it.

I worship with hypocrites and too often, in spite of my efforts, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m a hypocrite myself. I have learned that if I let those who fall short of the standards IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve set for them stand between God and me, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve given them the position of God in my life. They now control me because they are keeping me from being who I should be.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:48 pm

Clint wrote: I worship with hypocrites and too often, in spite of my efforts, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m a hypocrite myself.
I have to hunt for my own hypocrisy way too often. Maybe one day it will be easier.

You're a better person than I am. I just can't get into the right frame of mind when I can't trust the people around me. It is easier to try and be a better person on my own...or at least it has been to date. This article, and the conversations with Ted and others here have given me a lot of hope.

Clint wrote: I have learned that if I let those who fall short of the standards IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve set for them stand between God and me, IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve given them the position of God in my life. They now control me because they are keeping me from being who I should be.
Wow! I had to stop and think about that one, to ask if I'm judging other people and finding them lacking. Obviously I am. Do I let it stand between god and myself? That's much tougher to answer.

We all know that terrible things are done in the name of religion, or with the backing of churches. I often feel scarred inside because I grew up with it, and it's really all I've known. (Not a pity party, just a factual recounting). I've posted before that I grew up in rural GA during the Civil Rights movement. Hearing preachers support the violence and the separation of people was Strike One.

A friend of mine was hospitalized after being beaten by her father for dancing. She was 12 years old. Her father was a Southern Baptist preacher.

Strike Two.

After my father died, I had to live with my mom and my stepfather. He was a devout Mormon. He did terrible things, really awful...When I finally talked to the bishop about it, I was given a list of scriptures to read on chastity and vanity. Then a group of people held me down physically and chopped all of my hair off, because I was vain about my hair.

I was vain about my hair - it was the only physical feature that I liked.

The bishop blamed me for the attempted sexual assaults. Nothing was ever done to my stepfather. I left home at age 17. I'm proud to say that my chastity was intact.

Strike Three.

When I talked to church leaders about my marriage, I received lectures that I deserved it, I asked for it by not serving my husband properly...and it wasn't so long ago. It was pretty well known by then that lots of women die in these situations.

Strike Four.

I probably should've given up after Strike Three.

I have retreated into myself spiritually because I have no trust for those who profess one thing, and consistently do another. I become very nervous, tense...unable to worship or to learn. I have a lot of difficulty improving myself within a negative environment.

Alone, I am able to find peace, inspiration, strength, and courage to really look at myself (good and bad).

Honestly, I do miss being able to do that with other people. I miss singing hymns with a group, of being able to accomplish things together (like helping the community), of finding new things to think about in a sermon.

I do judge those people harshly. I do not want to associate with them, to be vulnerable. Maybe that's weak on my part.

Clint, I always enjoying writing with you. You give me lots to think about.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:36 am

There have been Christian missionaries for hundereds of years preaching their gospel of Love they Neighbour. Now we have Muslims preaching Islam to the West. :guitarist

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:52 am

capt_buzzard wrote: There have been Christian missionaries for hundereds of years preaching their gospel of Love they Neighbour. Now we have Muslims preaching Islam to the West. :guitarist

You say that like Islam is new. I don't find that Muslims preach. They don't generally talk to non Muslims at all. If you ask them about their faith be prepared to listen but we are not dealing with door to door Witnesses here.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 7:57 am

Perhaps not door to door. But ISLAM into the home,office ect via internet. :driving:

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:41 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Perhaps not door to door. But ISLAM into the home,office ect via internet. :driving:

When you go to the forum called Islam you will find Islamic opinions and views. There are many Christian members who make religious comments outside of the Christian forum and so do Muslims. You have commented on all the Christian viewpoints overwhelming you before as well. I think it is not Islam that is bothering you nor Christianity, I think it is a dislike for religion altogether. You could also include in your complaints ADVERTISING talk about being assaulted everywhere you go. Big corporations trying to talk us out of our money on scheduled commercial breaks every 15 minutes and every billboard on every street corner while you drive. Look out any downtown window and count the assaults on your mind and pocket book. Turn on your radio and tv for 15 minutes. Surf the net for 15 minutes and count all the popups and on site advertising. Is this not a bigger problem?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:43 am

All Religions are a curse to human kind.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 10:46 am

:wah: You guys!

My two cents...religion is good if it personally inspires and elevates. It's rotten if it leads to control, judgment, power struggles, and so on.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:11 am

Jack Sprat wrote: Are you just realizing that now? :wah:

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:22 pm

posted by a karenina

A friend of mine was hospitalized after being beaten by her father for dancing. She was 12 years old. Her father was a Southern Baptist preacher.

Strike Two.

Pardon my curiosity but what happened to the father, was he prosecuted?

I also knew a religious studies teacher who hospitalised his son-broke his jaw, the church supported the father none of them seemed concerned about the effect on the child. He used to always say that he punushed his children when he did wrong but when they did well that is whgat they were supposed to do so why should he reward them

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:10 pm

Nothing happened to the father. That's just how things were at that time. I'd add an emoticon, but my mixture of anger and sorrow is not captured by one smiley face.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:13 am

posted by A KARENINA

Nothing happened to the father. That's just how things were at that time. I'd add an emoticon, but my mixture of anger and sorrow is not captured by one smiley face.

I can never understand why people think things were better in the past. There isn't more child abuse now than before it's just that it doesn't get covered up any more. there have been a number of cases in the UK brought to light now that took place in the 60's and 70's on children in care homes and the like. It is only now the victims feel they can speak out and get justice, when children nobody would believe them or want to know. Great public moral standards are ofetn accompanied by greater private hypocrisy, unpleasant things get ognored or swept under the carpet.

posted by A Karenina

Wow...If this article is the new wave of Christian thought, I just might get back to church. I've been turned off for years by the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. I can't worship and learn with people who think that free will is a gift from God, but they themselves get to distribute it as they see fit.

Maybe not a new wave just a restatement of the old.

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:55 am

A Karenina wrote: :wah: You guys!

My two cents...religion is good if it personally inspires and elevates. It's rotten if it leads to control, judgment, power struggles, and so on.

If I had the experiences witht the church that you have had I would probably be nauseated by religious talk. It is a good example of why some people are vehemently opposed to religion. I usually call them "recovering Catholics" as a blanket term. I am not into organized religion in any form myself. I find spirituality a very personal thing that takes a different form for everyone. Even if they came up with the perfect religion in the perfect form and I was aware of it, I would still not join.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:56 am

What gets me is why do people need someone to tell them what to think. Children yes need to be told and taught to think for themselves but why do so many follow blindly. On cable I get the God channel (one of the free channels) It's like watching people being brainwashed, give us Ã‚Â£1,000 and you will go to heaven and get this free tape :-2

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:00 pm

well.. being an aging Deadhead I usually just follow the WWJD creed.. What would Jerry Do.. hahaha... of course these days this exludes taking vacations without leaving the house.. On a more serious note.. anyone that trys to conviince me that thier choice of religion is the only "correct" one has lost me before they finish a sentence. I usually listen and then start to poke holes in thier hypocritical balloons. I wholeheartedly and much to the chargrin of my parents agree with you Koan. My relationship with a greater spirit is between me and him..and no one else. And if I find that spirit in a church.. or mosque.. or on top of a mountain is completely my choice.

Actually GMC.. I have read a couple of demographic studies on the poor people that do send money to those wonderful (hear the sarcaasm) evanglistic shows.. usually they have little to no education, low self-esteem.. and are in the lower income brackets.. the last group of people that should be targeted as purchasers of over priced plastic dashboard religious icons... but . on the other side of the coin.. if it provides them with a semblence of comfort.. who am I to knock that

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:37 pm

CVX wrote: By Karl W. B. Schwarz

A Conservative Christian Republican

I have decided that our American lexicon needs a new word - Dominionistas, noun, plural, definition - groups whose religious beliefs obstruct critical thinking on matters of fairness, equity, Christ-like qualities, confusion between goodness and sin; cultists; persons of Neocon beliefs, fascists, persons of narrow mindedness.

The commentary today is yet another open letter to Christian Dominionistas who need to step away from the Kool-aid and have a long talk with God and Jesus Christ about what Christianity is, and more importantly - what Christianity is not. They might as well call themselves Zionist Christians, for some erroneously do and do not "get it" when myself or anyone else explains to them that Zionist Christians is in fact an oxymoron, or two words that have no business being used together. Sort of like "jumbo shrimp", or "military intelligence", or "Bush Compassionate Conservatism" being just three operative examples of what to look for when seeking an example of an oxymoron.

Most Christians do not "get it" when it is explained that there is a massive movement in Judaism, simply named Jews Against Zionism, fighting to rid their religion of Zionist. Many Christians just do not get it that the term Zionist can be pushed to such an extreme that it is a substitute word for fascist. It has happened in Judaism and it is happening in Christianity and neither are "religious based movements". They are based on evil, greed, power, domination; all things that are quite Un-Christ-like. They are "cults" in their sheerest definition[1] and are not God and Christ centered, they are people, power and greed centered. They call wrong right and right wrong. "This article provides more information that demonstrates that far from being the saviors of the Jewish People, the Zionists are the true self-hating Jews who have had nothing but contempt and outright hatred for the Jewish People and Judaism.[2] This article proves that anti-Semitism has been the oxygen and lifeblood of the Zionists throughout the ages to the present day.

"By contrast, we anti-Zionist Jews having been doing all we can to reduce hatred of Jews by proclaiming the true nature of the Jewish religion in contrast to the heresy and idolatry of Zionism.[3] We hope this will help Jews awaken from the brainwashing of the Zionists."

I know many Christians that need to start weaning themselves from the brainwashing of the Dominionistas and the Republican Neocon Fascists that have taken control of the RNC. Christianity is not about power, greed, entitlement, world conquest, Empire building, or looking the other way on the evil that is going on inside of our government ÃƒÂ± in our name - and wrapping that up in the flag and pretending that evil and wrong conduct is Christianity.

Such a recent example is Congressman Tom DeLay, R-TX, the powerful House Majority Leader who was reprimanded by the House Ethics Committee for shady dealings, is apparently going to be indicted in the State of Texas for election law violations, and articulates a dominionist theological imperative and even spoke of such in a recent interview in Worldview Weekend[4]:

"He [God] is using me, all the time, everywhere, to stand up for a biblical worldview in everything that I do and everywhere I am. He is training me."

Well Tom, next time you pray to God ask him to give you training in Biblical worldview as it relates to Christian love, tolerance, forgiveness, evenhandedness, and even honesty, all words that do not describe your politics or political warmongering in the least bit, and while you are at it, Tom, talk to God about obeying the election laws in the State of Texas, since they are in your own Dominionist views ÃƒÂ± God based. Also, take the God Course of Accountability and when you break the law, do not go running to the majority leadership of the U.S. Congress to grant you a waiver from being held accountable. You talk it, now walk it. Be a man and face your punishment for being a fraud Christian and a dirty politician.

Yes, Tom, you can consider that a Christian rebuke, from a Christian that clearly sees that you are a Dominionista Fascist. If you don't like that Mr. Delay, here is something from the Bible just for you:

NIV, Proverbs 17:10: A rebuke impresses a man of discernment more than a hundred lashes a fool.

The website TheocracyWatch.org also provides interesting reading on this phenomenon of Christians who suddenly think that globalization, warmongering, liars in power, dead and maimed soldiers due to those lies, and the sheer corruption in DC is "okay" because the overall objectives of conquering the world for Christ, by the shock and awe technique so to speak, is what they are after. They just don't get it that such actions prove beyond a doubt the shallowness or absence of Christianity in them, not that they are somehow "Super Christians".

They don't seem to grasp that their conduct is not Christian; it is pure, unadulterated fascism.

"The twin surges of Christians into GOP ranks in the early 1980s and early 1990s have begun to bear fruit, as naive, idealistic recruits have transformed into savvy operatives and leaders, building organizations, winning leadership positions, fighting onto platform committees, and electing many of their own to public office."

It would be helpful if these Far Right Dominionistas woke up and realized that such was the groundwork for Hitler's takeover of Germany, but then they would have to admit that they are not Christians, there are mere Neocons that are neo-conning all of us and they are Dominionista Fascists. They would have to come clean in the Christian sense of that concept and that would unseat them from the power and ill-gotten gain they covet.

The terms "Christian Conservative" used together are misnomers and for describing some of the Far Right, actually yet another oxymoron. Most Christians I know, both lay and clergy, believe the dominionist movement is an aberration of Christianity [much like Zionism is to Judaism] and the movement is anything but conservative in nature, tone, or deeds.

One can see from the record budget deficit and record growth of government that dominionist care more about winning votes and staying in power than managing the budget responsibly, which is an example of "bad stewardship" any way one wants to analyze it. Christians are required to be "good stewards" but in Dominionista thinking the concept is not supported nor it is operational in daily lives. To a Dominionista, greed is good and if others go without that is okay too. It is even okay if the Dominionista's policies plunder people into the poor house, just as long as those plundered are not other Dominionistas. As the Dominionistas climb that ladder of power and greed, wealth attainment, if they walk on others that is okay too in their warped interpretation of Christianity. To a Dominionista, fascism [evil] is good because it works to achieve their goals.

In fact, that is quite ÃƒÂ± Zionesque - of them to do so.

One of the primary fiscal requirements of being a good Christian is that one must exercise "good stewardship" and the rampant spending of the Bush Administration is about the worst example of "good stewardship" in the history of government, period, not just the "Worst in U.S. government history". The Bible warns to "recognize them by their fruits" when it comes to sinners, false prophets, etc and we have plenty of examples of that in DC right now all day, every day.

Dominionistas also seek radical change, not on what the Bible says or what Christ would do, but the "Dominionista interpretation" of what the Bible says. That is one of the ways to spot a cult, that the theology is based not on Christ principles but on the interpretation of a person here on Earth[5] and not within the historical guidelines and theology of Christianity. Some of the most whacked out things I have ever heard recently did not come out of the mouths of the shrill Liberal Left, the words and ideas came out of Dominionistas on the Far Right that have a long way to go to even be marginal Christians. "George Grant[6], was Executive Director of Coral Ridge Ministries for many years and is a dominionist author and educator. He wrote in The Changing of the Guard, Biblical Principles for Political Action:

"'Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.'

"But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice. It is dominion we are after. Not just influence. It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time. It is dominion we are after. World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less... Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ. (pp. 50-51)"

Well, it seems Mr. Grant needs to go back and take Civics 101 to get a better handle on why the separation of church and state is such a fundamental right of every person in this nation, including the fundamental, God given right to not be under the heel of overzealous Christians or other pseudo-Christian Dominionistas that have gone off the deep end. He also needs to show me the "real estate title section" of the Bible relating to World Conquest as a Christian imperative, for it does not exist.

I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people know that the Federalist Papers are full of evidence that this nation was not "founded" on Christian principals and was intended to embrace any religion, any free worship of God by anyone of any religion? I wonder if he would honestly re-examine his motives of interjecting his faith into government's laws if he knew more about this Nation's history, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, or Civics 101? I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people were presented with the TRUTH that the Founding Father's of this great nation felt that the imposition of ANYONE'S FAITH on another was a violation of that American's civil rights and God given rights? I wonder if they would "get it" if explained to them and would they accept it? I wonder if they could grasp the concept that their rights end where mine begin? Or, that my personal relationship with God is frankly between me and God and none of their business.

I wonder if Mr. Grant or other likeminded people grasp that the Founding Fathers considered legislating morality and during the discussions, and their lifelong experiences as God-fearing men, came to the conclusion that no government should have the right to legislate morality?

Evangelical means to spread the Word of God by good example ÃƒÂ± and hint ÃƒÂ± by good example, not as murderous, bigoted heathens bent on world dominion of anyone who thinks differently than Far Right Fascism. It does not mean to conquer the world and subjugate the peoples of the world as a preparation for the Second "democratic" Coming. Bad example equals bad Christian, and no, they don't get that either.

The dominionist movement is not a movement of tolerance and they prove it over and over again in the way they attack anyone who disagrees with them. I circulated a recent article written about the use of government money to sway the Christian Far Right vote[7], and even though 50,000 received it only six responded negatively. It was one response from an "ecumenical minister" that really stood out when he threatened bodily harm on me or would destroy my computer if I circulated my writings again to Christians.

Sure thing Bubba, let's not awaken any of the sleeping sheeple and have them stampede towards the truth. We can't have that epiphany happening on his watch! We cannot have the stiff-necked people wake up and smell the coffee that they have been lured into "cultist thinking". Maybe this is a third addition to the lexicon along with Dominionistas and the Zionesque I snuck in above ÃƒÂ± that being "ecumaniacal".

What a mockery of a Christian that pseudo-Christian proved to be. His hateful words made it clear to me he was a Dominionista true, blue and redneck, and a terrorist too. Dominionism believes there is only one truth, and they want to impose that truth on the rest of the country regardless of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights even though their very conduct cannot be found as "authorized" anywhere in the Bible without twisting the words into something the Words of God do not mean. Such people see sin everywhere except in their own actions.

In the words of the Christian Coalition field director, Bill Thomson[8], the "leftist" foes should be destroyed:

"You're going to run over them. Get around them, run over the top of them, destroy them - whatever you need to do so that God's word is the word that is being practiced in Congress, town halls and state legislatures. That's your job."

These Dominionist Christians would do well to take an in-depth course on the Biblical chapter of Revelations to get a better understanding that when there is a Second Coming of Christ, he will then have authority over all Nations, and then and only then will he be the King of Kings on earth and over all Nations. At this point in time, demanding, pushing, intimidating, bullying, etc to "hold title to all things" are being anything and everything but a Christian in the truest sense of the word. They are being hedonists and pagans in some very sinful ways and only pretending to be Christian. Furthermore, when that day comes ÃƒÂ± democracy is an irrelevant concept.

There is nothing in the Bible that teaches that Christians are to conquer the world, plunder it, and when the Second Coming of Christ happens we are to deliver it by quitclaim deed to the Son of God. If one digs deep enough to understand what "religious cult" means, these Dominionist are in fact a religious cult[9] that is operating way outside of what the Bible teaches and what the Bible means.

God and his Son Jesus Christ do not need the Dominionistas to twist government policy into a warped sense of Imperialism, greed and world conquest, and while doing so wrap up sheer evil and fascism as if it were a Godly act. In fact, the Bible is full of warnings about such people but they conveniently overlook those passages that clearly show that DOMINION IS GOD'S, not the Dominionista's right of entitlement as an erroneous reading or application of the Word.

God has no need for any Christian to "pave the way" for the Second Coming and any evangelist that presumes to know the mind of God, the Will of God and teaches such things to their flocks is what the Bible warned of ÃƒÂ± i.e. False Prophets. Instruments of Satan that are to be shunned and not followed, yet these Dominionistas are bound and determined to have us all living under the heels of their Fascist Dominionista boots.

That is not American and such conduct is a long way from being Christian. They just don't want you to know that.

It is time for all Americans to wake up for there are huge problems ahead for this nation and gay marriage and abortion are not what is about to put this nation under.

Please sign the Justice for 9-11.org petition if you, too, demand the truth and justice regarding September 11, 2001. There is much truth to be found and we have a National Capitol that is full of people that have an aversion to the truth. It is time that we as American Citizens get to the bottom of what they fear so much and why they fear the truth.

- Karl W. B. Schwarz lives in Little Rock, AR and is the author of "One-Way Ticket to Crawford, Texas, a Conservative Republican Speaks Out". He is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC and I-nets Security Systems, a designer of intelligence and communications UAV systems.

http://www.karlschwarz.com kw.schwarz@worldnet.att.net

[1]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html

[2] http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

[3]http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/oppos ... fodder.htm

[4]http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsA ... 2&abbr=cs_

[5]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html

[6]http://www.christianpost.com/article/ed ... t.promotes.

christian.doctrine.in.education/1.htm

[7]http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/11295/

[8]http://www.au.org/site/News2?page=NewsA ... 7&abbr=cs_

[9]http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary ... hwarz.html
Sounds like OPUS DEI Properganda machine

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:12 am

posted by greydeadhead

Actually GMC.. I have read a couple of demographic studies on the poor people that do send money to those wonderful (hear the sarcaasm) evanglistic shows.. usually they have little to no education, low self-esteem.. and are in the lower income brackets.. the last group of people that should be targeted as purchasers of over priced plastic dashboard religious icons... but . on the other side of the coin.. if it provides them with a semblence of comfort.. who am I to knock that

I wouldn't knock it either I begin to get annoyed when they begin to try and interfere in my life and tell me-for instance what I should and should not read or watch on TV.

It's a curious thing a secular society can tolerate religon, religious ones seem unable to tolerate anyone who doesn't follow their line.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:29 am

Awwwww.. come on GMC.. don't you wanna be saved from eternal damnation. I agree, someone telling me what to watch on television, or read, or discuss or believe in is extremely annoying. Curious.. yes it is.. to me it is more hyporcisy than anything else, the old my way is right, your way is wrong. One of the greatest television scenes I ever watched was Jimmy Swaggart bawling his eyes out as he admitted his sins before going to jail. totally hilarious..

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:59 am

Jack Sprat wrote: "Christ-like qualities"

What is that empty phrase supposed to mean?

The first example I could think of is Having a tendency to die when nailed to a cross.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:03 am

koan wrote: Perhaps the reason to officially separate the Church and State is that the bible advises "Let he who casts the first stone..." Under this morality the State could never go to war, could not judge anyone in a court of law etc.

The bible can be used to support just about any point of view if the quotations are chosen carefully. In fact, just about anything can be proven if the supporting evidence is compiled with great care. Good try. But under the European Union in the very near future, the Roman Catholic Church will be very much involved in the EU Member States.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:19 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Good try. But under the European Union in the very near future, the Roman Catholic Church will be very much involved in the EU Member States.

And then, if they support war and judgement as part of the EU, they will further prove their hypocrasy.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:08 am

posted by capn buzzard

Good try. But under the European Union in the very near future, the Roman Catholic Church will be very much involved in the EU Member States.

Please elucidate. I don't remember seeing anything suggesting ant role for the church involvement in the EU. That would thing too many especially in the UK.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:57 am

posted by Jack Sprat

As much as people are wondering whether Mayor Blumberg is out of step with the people on New York, whether Arafat was no longer representative of his people, and whether George W. Bush truly has any idea of what the people of the United States want, you must wonder whether the leaders of today's religious sects have any idea what their people are seeking. No matter whether the group is social, political, or religious, when the leaders do not respond to the needs of the people, the people look elsewhere to have those needs satisfied.

Does it matter? There is a particular mind set that knows what is best for people and will give it to them whether they want to or not. Given half a chance and any kind of power they will ram it down your throat because it is good for you safe in the knowledge they are right. You see the same kind of phenomenon in political groups as well-arguing about what is meant by the word.

What's Mayor Blumberg been up to?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:42 am

gmc wrote: Please elucidate. I don't remember seeing anything suggesting ant role for the church involvement in the EU. That would thing too many especially in the UK. Up in dear old Scotland, you may not be so privileged to some EU News. The one and only JP11 & Co has already implemented Rome's position within all EU affairs. www.euobserver.com

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 8:48 am

Some born again :rolleyes:Christian folk (Protestant) see Rome's involvement within the EU as the Beast of Revelation.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:39 pm

posted by capn buzzard

Up in dear old Scotland, you may not be so privileged to some EU News. The one and only JP11 & Co has already implemented Rome's position within all EU affairs. www.euobserver.com

It's not something that would have registered with me as religon is an irrelevance to me. A pity though that they are doing this and reviving old religious disputes. Something like the catholic church gaining influence would I think generate an awful lot of hostility to the EU. If catholic attitides to family planning looked like becoming eu law for instance. Why can't religious leaders P*** *** and leave everybody alone.?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:49 pm

gmc wrote: It's not something that would have registered with me as religon is an irrelevance to me. A pity though that they are doing this and reviving old religious disputes. Something like the catholic church gaining influence would I think generate an awful lot of hostility to the EU. If catholic attitides to family planning looked like becoming eu law for instance. Why can't religious leaders P*** *** and leave everybody alone.?
Did you you happen to hear or read about that Italian MEP shouting about in the EU parliament about Sin? Said he was a friend of JP11

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:28 am

posted by capn buzzard

Did you you happen to hear or read about that Italian MEP shouting about in the EU parliament about Sin? Said he was a friend of JP11

I did, being of a secular disposition in a secular country I tend to just motice the more extreme religious nutters. The last thing we ned is a christian revival with all it's divisions and petty disputes.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 4:11 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: Some born again :rolleyes:Christian folk (Protestant) see Rome's involvement within the EU as the Beast of Revelation.This may be my deepest post yet. Here we go...

Captain, when you say, "the Pope," are you talking about JP2, or the office of the Papacy? No single Pope has been around long enough to fulfill the prophecies of the beast in Revelation, or the Little Horn in Daniel. However, if the whole line of Popes throughout history are considered as one entity, you might be surprised how many prophetic descriptions it fills perfectly. Most of the fulfillment of antichrist prophecy has been the Church using government power to enforce it's beliefs and control people's minds.

Having said that, the body of Christ (His saved believers) includes quite a number of Roman Catholics who are living in the Spirit of Christ (many doing far better than I) and whom I flatter myself to consider brothers and sisters in Christ, though I am Protestant. Some of them are closer to me than some Protestants. Some Jews are closer to me than some Protestants. Some athiests too. It's not your label. It's what you are inside and how you treat others.

Few except rabid Revelation students (like me) know that there are not one, but two nasty beasts in Revelation. The Beast out of the sea resembles the historic Papacy. The Beast out of the earth resembles the good ol' U.S.A. (I should know, being a Yankee myself)

Guess what else? It is the second beast that constructs an image to the first beast and forces everyone to bow down to it. If the first beast was a church-state mind control machine that tortured and executed people for not obeying it's beliefs, then what would an image to that be?

Likewise, it is not the first but the second beast that enforces what Scripture calls the mark of the beast.

As an American, I don't worry as much about the Vatican and it's ailing leader (may God bless him) as I do about the religious crazies in the U.S.A. that are trying to join Church and State. May God bless them too- They mean well, but they do not know where their political actions are leading. Some will wake up and snap out of it before it is too late and they find themselves on the wrong side of the fulfillment of prophecy.

To me this Dominionista thing is extremely relevant. I've been watching these developments for many years.