Quite simply, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods.
Here some valid reasons atheists think as they do:
1. Biology adequately describes the development of life on the planet without depending on mythical dieties.
2. Astronomy adequately describes the formation of stars/planets/universe/etc without depending on mythical dieties.
3. Geology adequately describes the evolution of the planet, land formations, etc without depending on mythical dieties.
4. Depending on mythical dieties appeals to ignorance, rather than education and scientific pursuit.
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown.
6. Thousands of mythical dieties have been posited by various societies and are now known to be products of imagination and scientific ignorance.
7. Believing in mythical dieties seems unrealistic when those who posit the dieties begin explaining why and how they exist without proof of physical evidence.
8. As scientific knowledge increases, the role of mythical dieties is pushed further back.
What is an Atheist?
What is an Atheist?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Floppy, religion tries to answer the "why" and science merely answers "how." Religion tries to connect human beings with the deity and make us the end-all, be-all or the creatures for which the cosmos was created. Science doesn't even go there.
And the recent flapdoodle about poor little Pluto was merely a definition of terms....Pluto's still there.
And the recent flapdoodle about poor little Pluto was merely a definition of terms....Pluto's still there.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
a‧the‧ist /ˈeɪθiɪst/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ey-thee-ist] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
[Origin: 1565–75;
posted by flopstock
Seems to me that if we were to apply the same logic to your explanation of what an atheist is, then the belief in science as the answer, is its own religion.
Science is a tool-methodology not a belief system.
Faith is completely irrational and can't be explained-you either believe in god or you don't.
One of the problems some religious people have is they cannot accept choosing not to believe is a viable option because it calls in to question their own faith hence the frenetic desire of fundamentalists of all faiths to stop and take away anything that might be seen as questioning their belief system. Believe as I do or else.
posted by flopstock
I'm definitely NOT the person to be arguing this, because what little faith I have, is in a very select few people. And all that I know about anything, is that I know very little..
Ditto, but then most people know a great deal less than they think and those who don't like having their views challenged usually are afraid to think about them. Doesn't mean they will change them if challenged might even reinforce them who knows. Even JC questioned his faith.
lulu2
Floppy, religion tries to answer the "why" and science merely answers "how." Religion tries to connect human beings with the deity and make us the end-all, be-all or the creatures for which the cosmos was created. Science doesn't even go there.
Looks like you start from the standpoint that there is a deity in the first place.
How about.
Science is a methodology used by people to try and explain and understand the world around you.
Religon is a series of myths and stories to try and explain and understand understand the world around you.
Religon is seen as a belief system that its followers see as intrinsically true and don't like being questioned. Since the logic of science is indisputable then phrases like religion tries to answer the "why" and science merely answers "how."
Those who reject evolutionary theory and insist the genesis myth (the how) is true are entitled to their belief even if patently absurd.
As to the why-we don't know why just have faith is not much of an answer IMO.
Atheism is not a religon. You cannot have a belief system about belief in something that does you believe does not exist, that would be absurd.
–noun
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
[Origin: 1565–75;
posted by flopstock
Seems to me that if we were to apply the same logic to your explanation of what an atheist is, then the belief in science as the answer, is its own religion.
Science is a tool-methodology not a belief system.
Faith is completely irrational and can't be explained-you either believe in god or you don't.
One of the problems some religious people have is they cannot accept choosing not to believe is a viable option because it calls in to question their own faith hence the frenetic desire of fundamentalists of all faiths to stop and take away anything that might be seen as questioning their belief system. Believe as I do or else.
posted by flopstock
I'm definitely NOT the person to be arguing this, because what little faith I have, is in a very select few people. And all that I know about anything, is that I know very little..
Ditto, but then most people know a great deal less than they think and those who don't like having their views challenged usually are afraid to think about them. Doesn't mean they will change them if challenged might even reinforce them who knows. Even JC questioned his faith.
lulu2
Floppy, religion tries to answer the "why" and science merely answers "how." Religion tries to connect human beings with the deity and make us the end-all, be-all or the creatures for which the cosmos was created. Science doesn't even go there.
Looks like you start from the standpoint that there is a deity in the first place.
How about.
Science is a methodology used by people to try and explain and understand the world around you.
Religon is a series of myths and stories to try and explain and understand understand the world around you.
Religon is seen as a belief system that its followers see as intrinsically true and don't like being questioned. Since the logic of science is indisputable then phrases like religion tries to answer the "why" and science merely answers "how."
Those who reject evolutionary theory and insist the genesis myth (the how) is true are entitled to their belief even if patently absurd.
As to the why-we don't know why just have faith is not much of an answer IMO.
Atheism is not a religon. You cannot have a belief system about belief in something that does you believe does not exist, that would be absurd.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
gmc wrote: One of the problems some religious people have is they cannot accept choosing not to believe is a viable option because it calls in to question their own faith hence the frenetic desire of fundamentalists of all faiths to stop and take away anything that might be seen as questioning their belief system. Believe as I do or else.
Sounds a lot like atheism. All the science in the world does not disprove the existance of God; you are making an extrapolation based on faith that He doesn't exist. If atheism is simply the belief that there is no God and can be no God, how intolerant is that. An entire classification has been created that doesn't have any beliefs of its own other than to deny what some others believe. How often have people railed against religion because some believers think their belief is the only one right? Because some believers think their belief is superior to others? Seems atheist are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
Sounds a lot like atheism. All the science in the world does not disprove the existance of God; you are making an extrapolation based on faith that He doesn't exist. If atheism is simply the belief that there is no God and can be no God, how intolerant is that. An entire classification has been created that doesn't have any beliefs of its own other than to deny what some others believe. How often have people railed against religion because some believers think their belief is the only one right? Because some believers think their belief is superior to others? Seems atheist are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
What is an Atheist?
Not at all, Adam. Atheists don't need to DISPROVE anything. The burden of "proof" (of gods' existences) here is on the theists' shoulders...if that's what they choose to believe.
GMC "Looks like you start from the standpoint that there is a deity in the first place." Nope...didn't mean to give that impression. OBVIOUSLY, there are forces operating within the universe to cause the creation of what we can see. Ascribing a "godship" to it is one approach toward thinking about this...and working to understand the HOW through scientific process is another.
Atheism is certainly not a religion.
GMC "Looks like you start from the standpoint that there is a deity in the first place." Nope...didn't mean to give that impression. OBVIOUSLY, there are forces operating within the universe to cause the creation of what we can see. Ascribing a "godship" to it is one approach toward thinking about this...and working to understand the HOW through scientific process is another.
Atheism is certainly not a religion.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Adam Zapple wrote: Sounds a lot like atheism. All the science in the world does not disprove the existance of God; you are making an extrapolation based on faith that He doesn't exist. If atheism is simply the belief that there is no God and can be no God, how intolerant is that. An entire classification has been created that doesn't have any beliefs of its own other than to deny what some others believe. How often have people railed against religion because some believers think their belief is the only one right? Because some believers think their belief is superior to others? Seems atheist are the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.
Swop the words round then it applies to the intolerant in general. Atheists can be just as intolerant as religious people.
One of the problems some atheists have is they cannot accept choosing to believe is a viable option because it calls in to question their non belief hence the frenetic desire of fundamentalist atheists to stop and take away anything that might be seen as questioning their belief system by suggesting there might be a god. Believe as I do or else.
Believing in god is irrational, so is not believing in god. neither side can prove the existence or non existence of god. I have little sympathy for atheists that want all religious teaching banned just as I have little sympathy for religious people that dont want science tauught in schools. Let people make up their own minds.
Religious tolerance means you accept other faiths or non faith have equally valid beliefs and don't take steps to ban or stop them being practiced. It's about respecting others free will to choose for themselves. Agree to differ and live in harmony with each other.
Fundamentalists of all types have a difficulty with that basic idea.
If god gave mankind free will to believe or not believe then religions that try to force others to their faith take on themselves a burden that god didn't want them to take. Maybe the greatest challenge god set is to have the ability to accept and value others regardles of colour or creed.
JC told his followers to go out and convert others I don't recall seeing anything about setting fire to those that didn't convert or torturing them for the good of their souls but that is what many christians did in the past in the name of their religon.
I have no issues with someone that believes in God, I have issues with the practices of some religious people. I have no issues with atheiests but I have issues with soome of the practices of some atheists.
People can proselytise as much as they so far as I am concerned just don't try and force your beliefs on others.
If I had to choose I would say I was a skeptical agnostic.
Swop the words round then it applies to the intolerant in general. Atheists can be just as intolerant as religious people.
One of the problems some atheists have is they cannot accept choosing to believe is a viable option because it calls in to question their non belief hence the frenetic desire of fundamentalist atheists to stop and take away anything that might be seen as questioning their belief system by suggesting there might be a god. Believe as I do or else.
Believing in god is irrational, so is not believing in god. neither side can prove the existence or non existence of god. I have little sympathy for atheists that want all religious teaching banned just as I have little sympathy for religious people that dont want science tauught in schools. Let people make up their own minds.
Religious tolerance means you accept other faiths or non faith have equally valid beliefs and don't take steps to ban or stop them being practiced. It's about respecting others free will to choose for themselves. Agree to differ and live in harmony with each other.
Fundamentalists of all types have a difficulty with that basic idea.
If god gave mankind free will to believe or not believe then religions that try to force others to their faith take on themselves a burden that god didn't want them to take. Maybe the greatest challenge god set is to have the ability to accept and value others regardles of colour or creed.
JC told his followers to go out and convert others I don't recall seeing anything about setting fire to those that didn't convert or torturing them for the good of their souls but that is what many christians did in the past in the name of their religon.
I have no issues with someone that believes in God, I have issues with the practices of some religious people. I have no issues with atheiests but I have issues with soome of the practices of some atheists.
People can proselytise as much as they so far as I am concerned just don't try and force your beliefs on others.
If I had to choose I would say I was a skeptical agnostic.
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Casey Morgan
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:04 pm
What is an Atheist?
Bear in mind that I am an Atheist.
Lulu2 wrote: Quite simply, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods.
Here some valid reasons atheists think as they do:
1. Biology adequately describes the development of life on the planet without depending on mythical dieties. I agree that biology makes the concept of a creator unnecessary.
2. Astronomy adequately describes the formation of stars/planets/universe/etc without depending on mythical dieties. Same as above.
3. Geology adequately describes the evolution of the planet, land formations, etc without depending on mythical dieties. Same as above.
4. Depending on mythical dieties appeals to ignorance, rather than education and scientific pursuit. I really hate that one. It's no different than when Christians tell me in effect that I'm too stupid to recognize god around me.
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown. The first point is moot. The second makes the subject up for debate. I just haven't seen anything that suggests to me that the explanation is the existance of a deity.
6. Thousands of mythical dieties have been posited by various societies and are now known to be products of imagination and scientific ignorance. Oh they are, are they?
7. Believing in mythical dieties seems unrealistic when those who posit the dieties begin explaining why and how they exist without proof of physical evidence. physical evidence isn't required. See #5 above.
8. As scientific knowledge increases, the role of mythical dieties is pushed further back. As scientific knowledge increases, the need for there to be a diety decreases. Different arguement.
I'm largely an Atheist because of Occam's Razor. In order to be consistant, the concept of a deity as put forth by most religions is the more complicated reason.
Lulu2 wrote: Quite simply, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in gods.
Here some valid reasons atheists think as they do:
1. Biology adequately describes the development of life on the planet without depending on mythical dieties. I agree that biology makes the concept of a creator unnecessary.
2. Astronomy adequately describes the formation of stars/planets/universe/etc without depending on mythical dieties. Same as above.
3. Geology adequately describes the evolution of the planet, land formations, etc without depending on mythical dieties. Same as above.
4. Depending on mythical dieties appeals to ignorance, rather than education and scientific pursuit. I really hate that one. It's no different than when Christians tell me in effect that I'm too stupid to recognize god around me.
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown. The first point is moot. The second makes the subject up for debate. I just haven't seen anything that suggests to me that the explanation is the existance of a deity.
6. Thousands of mythical dieties have been posited by various societies and are now known to be products of imagination and scientific ignorance. Oh they are, are they?
7. Believing in mythical dieties seems unrealistic when those who posit the dieties begin explaining why and how they exist without proof of physical evidence. physical evidence isn't required. See #5 above.
8. As scientific knowledge increases, the role of mythical dieties is pushed further back. As scientific knowledge increases, the need for there to be a diety decreases. Different arguement.
I'm largely an Atheist because of Occam's Razor. In order to be consistant, the concept of a deity as put forth by most religions is the more complicated reason.
What is an Atheist?
Science does not adequately explain the origination of the physical universe or describe the prior state and neither does any religion i am aware of..
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
What is an Atheist?
I'm sure I'd be an agnostic if I could actually summon up the enthusiasm to care :rolleyes:
What is an Atheist?
Oh, come on! What do you REALLY think? :wah:
CASEY "physical evidence isn't required. See #5 above."
I'm confused as to how you're thinking here....please explain.
CASEY "physical evidence isn't required. See #5 above."
I'm confused as to how you're thinking here....please explain.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
I can agree with the whole idea of tolerance.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
What is an Atheist?
Tolerance? 
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
What do I really think? I really think that anyone who follows the party line - christian, moslem, atheist, buddhist, devil worshipper - is a sheeple. But hey, it's their choice and I wouldn't waste my time trying to get them to change.
What is an Atheist?
Understood....and please understand I've NEVER intended to "change" anyone's opinion. People who want/need religion will seek it, and those of us who dont...won't.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
If we are to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, as a s**t disturber he could hardly be called a sheep nor could his followers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
What is an Atheist?
Ted...as usual, your comments don't make much sense to me. Nobody was discussing Jesus or sheep or followers. And, no offense, but this isn't a thread where we can wander along, talking meaninglessly about god, etc.
If you've something constructive to add about atheism, please feel free. Otherwise...I'd suggest you go to one of the seemingly endless threads about Christianity.
Thanks
If you've something constructive to add about atheism, please feel free. Otherwise...I'd suggest you go to one of the seemingly endless threads about Christianity.
Thanks
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: Ted...as usual, your comments don't make much sense to me. Nobody was discussing Jesus or sheep or followers. And, no offense, but this isn't a thread where we can wander along, talking meaninglessly about god, etc.
If you've something constructive to add about atheism, please feel free. Otherwise...I'd suggest you go to one of the seemingly endless threads about Christianity.
Thanks
Yes, one of the endless "Christianity" threads where atheists always appear in order to tell those who are religious that their beliefs are irrational, illogical, based on ignorance and lack of education, and basically daft. :-6 There are some atheists who simply say, "Eh, I don't believe." Other atheists who sieem intent on "proving" to believers how utterly wrong every facet of religion is. That's atheist proselytizing.
If you've something constructive to add about atheism, please feel free. Otherwise...I'd suggest you go to one of the seemingly endless threads about Christianity.
Thanks
Yes, one of the endless "Christianity" threads where atheists always appear in order to tell those who are religious that their beliefs are irrational, illogical, based on ignorance and lack of education, and basically daft. :-6 There are some atheists who simply say, "Eh, I don't believe." Other atheists who sieem intent on "proving" to believers how utterly wrong every facet of religion is. That's atheist proselytizing.
What is an Atheist?
Adam, I didn't say his belief was irrational, etc. I said that this post made no sense (as is often the case, when he posts to keep his threads on the first page.)
Nor did I specifically say that his beliefs are irrational, daft, and whatever other words you put into my mouth.
Take another look at what I've said. You know that I don't want to offend your beliefs. BUT...I think it's time for those who believe as I do to put up a similar thread....take a look at all the others on page 1.
OK?
Nor did I specifically say that his beliefs are irrational, daft, and whatever other words you put into my mouth.
Take another look at what I've said. You know that I don't want to offend your beliefs. BUT...I think it's time for those who believe as I do to put up a similar thread....take a look at all the others on page 1.
OK?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: Adam, I didn't say his belief was irrational, etc. I said that this post made no sense (as is often the case, when he posts to keep his threads on the first page.)
Nor did I specifically say that his beliefs are irrational, daft, and whatever other words you put into my mouth.
Take another look at what I've said. You know that I don't want to offend your beliefs. BUT...I think it's time for those who believe as I do to put up a similar thread....take a look at all the others on page 1.
OK?
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Just my observations of threads in general. I commend you for starting the thread, but as you know, threads go astray and once up anyone interesting in participating will.
Nor did I specifically say that his beliefs are irrational, daft, and whatever other words you put into my mouth.
Take another look at what I've said. You know that I don't want to offend your beliefs. BUT...I think it's time for those who believe as I do to put up a similar thread....take a look at all the others on page 1.
OK?
I wasn't speaking of you specifically. Just my observations of threads in general. I commend you for starting the thread, but as you know, threads go astray and once up anyone interesting in participating will.
What is an Atheist?
And why not? Take a look at all the "angels on the head of a pin" debates about Christianity here. Why NOT a good discussion on those of us who don't agree?
XOXO
XOXO
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: And why not? Take a look at all the "angels on the head of a pin" debates about Christianity here. Why NOT a good discussion on those of us who don't agree?
XOXO
I'm with you. Why NOT! It seems atheism is predicated on opposing what someone else believes and nothing else. Think about it. Religion is based on the belief in a deity. Non-belief of some did not spur belief in others. Yet atheism wouldn't really exist if some people didn't believe in a supreme being, would it? And why do some atheists spend so much time trying to tear down belief in others? Go to some of the religion threads and there are atheists who sole purpose of being there is to denigrate what others believel. I think atheism is a negative religion/philosophy/tenet (whatever you want to call it). Atheists should learn to respect the belief of others and hold those beliefs as equal to their own. Why do they think that they are the only ones right, hmmmm?
XOXO
I'm with you. Why NOT! It seems atheism is predicated on opposing what someone else believes and nothing else. Think about it. Religion is based on the belief in a deity. Non-belief of some did not spur belief in others. Yet atheism wouldn't really exist if some people didn't believe in a supreme being, would it? And why do some atheists spend so much time trying to tear down belief in others? Go to some of the religion threads and there are atheists who sole purpose of being there is to denigrate what others believel. I think atheism is a negative religion/philosophy/tenet (whatever you want to call it). Atheists should learn to respect the belief of others and hold those beliefs as equal to their own. Why do they think that they are the only ones right, hmmmm?
What is an Atheist?
Excuse me? I posted some beliefs. Does that threaten or "tear down" the beliefs of others?
Why shouldn't I post what I believe? Christians post THEIR beliefs and announce that "THE BIBLE TELLS US SO'' all the time. Why is it so negative when I tell mine?
HMMMMM?
Why shouldn't I post what I believe? Christians post THEIR beliefs and announce that "THE BIBLE TELLS US SO'' all the time. Why is it so negative when I tell mine?
HMMMMM?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
The question is "What is an atheist"?
I believe and atheist is a person who does not believe in God, and as such does not have to prove or disprove anything. I think all of the other things are definitions as to what color, size, height.....or what an atheist does.
I believe a Christian believes in God/Jesus and as such does not have to prove or disprove anything. It is when a Christian says that God "EXISTS" that proof is necessary.
Also, if an atheist says God does "NOT EXIST", then he has to prove it.
Just the way I see it.
I believe and atheist is a person who does not believe in God, and as such does not have to prove or disprove anything. I think all of the other things are definitions as to what color, size, height.....or what an atheist does.
I believe a Christian believes in God/Jesus and as such does not have to prove or disprove anything. It is when a Christian says that God "EXISTS" that proof is necessary.
Also, if an atheist says God does "NOT EXIST", then he has to prove it.
Just the way I see it.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
What is an Atheist?
Weber...it's impossible to PROVE a negative.
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: Weber...it's impossible to PROVE a negative.
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
It's also impossible to prove that God EXISTS
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
It's also impossible to prove that God EXISTS
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
What is an Atheist?
Weber...that's my point. Take another look at my opening thread. Because nobody can PROVE that gods exist....atheists reject the idea that myths about deities are true.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: Weber...it's impossible to PROVE a negative.
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
But I know that I believe IN God and I don't have to prove that. Do you see?
If god doesn't exist....it's impossible to prove that. Do you see?
But I know that I believe IN God and I don't have to prove that. Do you see?
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
What is an Atheist?
Nobody said you DO...it's just not logical.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: Nobody said you DO...it's just not logical.
I'll never understand. I see no reason to have to prove that God exists. I just believe in Him and that is enough for me.
An antheist has no reason to prove his point no matter how you put it. He just believes what he wishes.
I see no argument. Some say yes some say no. What's to prove.
and not even the scientists are logical.
I'll never understand. I see no reason to have to prove that God exists. I just believe in Him and that is enough for me.
An antheist has no reason to prove his point no matter how you put it. He just believes what he wishes.
I see no argument. Some say yes some say no. What's to prove.
and not even the scientists are logical.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
What is an Atheist?
The problem, Weber, comes in when Christians begin to assume that they're the only ones who're "right." How many lives have been ruined and cultures destroyed because missionaries went into foreign areas to "spread the light?"
Believe what you will...and know that many people think THIS way:
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown.
This shouldn't be a threat to you.
Believe what you will...and know that many people think THIS way:
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown.
This shouldn't be a threat to you.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: The problem, Weber, comes in when Christians begin to assume that they're the only ones who're "right." How many lives have been ruined and cultures destroyed because missionaries went into foreign areas to "spread the light?"
Believe what you will...and know that many people think THIS way:
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown.
This shouldn't be a threat to you.
I don't know what you are getting at Lulu
cuz I never said who was right. I also believe that I have no right to decide who is right. I really don't know where you got that.
And I don't need to know about mythical deities because they are not a part of my life and the only reason I would have for finding out about them would be to argue with those who believe in them.
Believe what you will...and know that many people think THIS way:
5. There is no physical evidence for the existence of mythical dieties nor can they be proven through hypothetical testing. Lack of information in a given subject does not prove the existence of mythical dieties, it merely exists as an unknown.
This shouldn't be a threat to you.
I don't know what you are getting at Lulu
cuz I never said who was right. I also believe that I have no right to decide who is right. I really don't know where you got that.
And I don't need to know about mythical deities because they are not a part of my life and the only reason I would have for finding out about them would be to argue with those who believe in them.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
What is an Atheist?
MY point, Weber, is that there is no argument. That's all. As a believer, that shouldn't be a threat to you. It is for many....but it seems it's not for you. GOOD.
I wish more believers were as open to other thoughts as you are.
I wish more believers were as open to other thoughts as you are.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: MY point, Weber, is that there is no argument. That's all. As a believer, that shouldn't be a threat to you. It is for many....but it seems it's not for you. GOOD.
I wish more believers were as open to other thoughts as you are.
I'm right with you there Lulu:-6 :-4
Oooooooooops I read you wrong. Where you say that it seems it's not for me, you are quite wrong about that. I will stop posting here cuz you are not understanding me here:-6
I wish more believers were as open to other thoughts as you are.
I'm right with you there Lulu:-6 :-4
Oooooooooops I read you wrong. Where you say that it seems it's not for me, you are quite wrong about that. I will stop posting here cuz you are not understanding me here:-6
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
.................Charles Mingus
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl Lu, you're doing it! First, why do atheists think they are the only ones right. If I said any religion but mine was illogical you would say I was intolerant but you say the same thing as an atheist. More people have died under regimes who were officially atheist than any other. It just tickles me how atheists go on about the how wrong and illogical and dangerous religion is and then condemn religious people for being negative about other religions.
What is an Atheist?
Ah, Adam....it IS illogical! How can you say it's not? Atheists don't HAVE a religion to declare "right." I've said all along here....if you want/need to believe these things....GO FOR IT.
Just don't impose it on the rest of us.
Just don't impose it on the rest of us.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Like I said before, I think tolerance is the way to go.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
What is an Atheist?
No offense, Ted, but "tolerance" isn't something your fellow Christians are willing to practice when dealing with non-believers!
Can you imagine an openly agnostic/atheist being elected into office?
No? Why? Could it be because "believers" tend to vote for BELIEVERS? And why is that?
Can you imagine an openly agnostic/atheist being elected into office?
No? Why? Could it be because "believers" tend to vote for BELIEVERS? And why is that?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
What is an Atheist?
Lulu:-6
Your comments are not consistent with my experience of left of centre Christianity. They can be true of the fundamentalist/literalist end of the scale but that is changing.
As I said, it seems to me that tolerance is the way. If some are not tolerant then it is time to teach them.
I might add that I have met atheists who are as intolerant as some of the Christians. This says to me that they have lowered themselves to the same level. They need to learn as well. I might say as well that rationalism as an ideology believing that it will ultimately solve all the problems has in fact become a religion. I say thiis in spite of protests to the contrary. Some day I may publish here a Liturgy for worshiping at the alter of logic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Your comments are not consistent with my experience of left of centre Christianity. They can be true of the fundamentalist/literalist end of the scale but that is changing.
As I said, it seems to me that tolerance is the way. If some are not tolerant then it is time to teach them.
I might add that I have met atheists who are as intolerant as some of the Christians. This says to me that they have lowered themselves to the same level. They need to learn as well. I might say as well that rationalism as an ideology believing that it will ultimately solve all the problems has in fact become a religion. I say thiis in spite of protests to the contrary. Some day I may publish here a Liturgy for worshiping at the alter of logic.
Shalom
Ted:-6
What is an Atheist?
"I might add that I have met atheists who are as intolerant as some of the Christians. This says to me that they have lowered themselves to the same level."
++++++++++++ Thanks for admitting that some Christians are on a very low level of "tolerance" for non-beleivers. Most Christians don't admit it. They spent so many centuries trying to eliminate us that they can't let it go now.
There are other reasons, of course, but still...many Christians want to equate us with devil worship and paganism.
++++++++++++ Thanks for admitting that some Christians are on a very low level of "tolerance" for non-beleivers. Most Christians don't admit it. They spent so many centuries trying to eliminate us that they can't let it go now.
There are other reasons, of course, but still...many Christians want to equate us with devil worship and paganism.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
What is an Atheist?
my biggest beef with atheists is that many of them aren't atheists - they're actually antitheists. openly hostile, offensive, denigrating, and derogatory towards those who have faith.
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][/FONT]
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
anastrophe wrote: my biggest beef with atheists is that many of them aren't atheists - they're actually antitheists. openly hostile, offensive, denigrating, and derogatory towards those who have faith.
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
Thank you. Well put.
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
Thank you. Well put.
What is an Atheist?
Interesting, being someone who is scientifically trained (chemistry) I suppose I should be predisposed to atheism. In fact I'm not, though from my understanding of the way the universe works mystical ideas are definelty not founded in any reality, though for people who believe in divine beings who intervene directly in our lives, that is beside the point. In terms of the existence of God or a "god" or whatever way you want to describe it, for me, the only evidence is the existence of the universe itself, which is circumstantial at best, but there is a lot of it and its hard to refute. Lulu was exactly right when she said that science is about "how" and not "why", to my mind it seems that the questions relating to the "why" are not answerable using evidence from the physical universe as whatever god is and must be exists outside that sphere of action and he or she or it, does not reveal himself directly through existence, only by implication in the fact of existence itself. Some people may find that a cold and sterile point of view, I do not, as the reality of existence and the universe itself is incredible beyond the power of human beings to fully take in, even from the limited understanding we have the only rational reaction is one of awe and humility in the face of creation. Knowing that we are intrinsically a part of that reality as is all life everywhere is also a humbling thought. I do wish that more religious people would on occasion take themselves away from the doctrinal squabbles they invariable have between themselves and others, get away from the human-centered world view of all major religions and take time to ponder upon the size, complexity, and majesty of creation and perhaps become a little bit more humble in realizing that human beings and their affairs on this planet are not the be all and end all of everything.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
What is an Atheist?
anastrophe wrote: my biggest beef with atheists is that many of them aren't atheists - they're actually antitheists. openly hostile, offensive, denigrating, and derogatory towards those who have faith.
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
I'm with you there as well. If we could only put all the zealots together on an island somewhere and give them all clubs-preferably on another planet as well.
I would say though I think religious people who feel threatened by the fact that others do not share their belief really need to question their faith.
Personally I believe in the cosmic comedian-life's a joke we just don't know the punchline. Incidentally be careful who you use that one with I was assaulted by a jehovah's witness for taking the ****. I only answered his question-do you believe in god. I sometimes think heaven must be full of people with no sense of humour.
posted by adam zapple
Yes, one of the endless "Christianity" threads where atheists always appear in order to tell those who are religious that their beliefs are irrational, illogical, based on ignorance and lack of education, and basically daft. There are some atheists who simply say, "Eh, I don't believe." Other atheists who sieem intent on "proving" to believers how utterly wrong every facet of religion is. That's atheist proselytizing.
As a non believer I occasionally look at the religious threads out of interest to see what is being said but am also well aware I have nothing to contribute beyond saying I don't believe in all of this. I can't understand why they would want to waste their time.
Tell them you realise they have come to find a path to god and you welcome their prescence and ask how you can help them. Think of it as verbal aikido, use their passion against them. If that doesn't scare them off tell them to go forth and multiply. :yh_rotfl
Big ears-Glad to see Noddy finally paid the ransom to the elephants
i'm absolutely fine with atheism. i have no patience for antitheists. they're no more helpful to creating a peaceful, tolerant world than religious zealots who go about bashing people who don't share their belief system.
i'm with ted on this one. tolerance is the way.
I'm with you there as well. If we could only put all the zealots together on an island somewhere and give them all clubs-preferably on another planet as well.
I would say though I think religious people who feel threatened by the fact that others do not share their belief really need to question their faith.
Personally I believe in the cosmic comedian-life's a joke we just don't know the punchline. Incidentally be careful who you use that one with I was assaulted by a jehovah's witness for taking the ****. I only answered his question-do you believe in god. I sometimes think heaven must be full of people with no sense of humour.
posted by adam zapple
Yes, one of the endless "Christianity" threads where atheists always appear in order to tell those who are religious that their beliefs are irrational, illogical, based on ignorance and lack of education, and basically daft. There are some atheists who simply say, "Eh, I don't believe." Other atheists who sieem intent on "proving" to believers how utterly wrong every facet of religion is. That's atheist proselytizing.
As a non believer I occasionally look at the religious threads out of interest to see what is being said but am also well aware I have nothing to contribute beyond saying I don't believe in all of this. I can't understand why they would want to waste their time.
Tell them you realise they have come to find a path to god and you welcome their prescence and ask how you can help them. Think of it as verbal aikido, use their passion against them. If that doesn't scare them off tell them to go forth and multiply. :yh_rotfl
Big ears-Glad to see Noddy finally paid the ransom to the elephants
What is an Atheist?
Some excellent posts with some excellent thoughts.
I think it is important that we have dialogue, tolerance and mutual understanding. What one believes about the visible or the invisible is a private matter. It seems to me that proselytizing is out. If someone has a good message to deliver then live it. If others like what they see they may ask.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think it is important that we have dialogue, tolerance and mutual understanding. What one believes about the visible or the invisible is a private matter. It seems to me that proselytizing is out. If someone has a good message to deliver then live it. If others like what they see they may ask.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Casey Morgan
- Posts: 85
- Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:04 pm
What is an Atheist?
Lulu2 wrote: CASEY "physical evidence isn't required. See #5 above."
I'm confused as to how you're thinking here....please explain.
For me it's immaterial whether or not one can show physical proof of a deity. You don't have to have proof that a certain subatomic particle exists to believe it exists if you are satisfied that there is no other "correct" explanation other than its existance. Therefore it's not unrealistic to postulate the nature of the existance of said particle. I know this probably sounds like semantics. But I see it like Sherlock Holmes's famous saying: when you eliminate the impossible whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth.
So someone can postulate the nature of a particular deity if the thing that's left is that said deity exists. Doing so violates none of my precepts.
I'm confused as to how you're thinking here....please explain.
For me it's immaterial whether or not one can show physical proof of a deity. You don't have to have proof that a certain subatomic particle exists to believe it exists if you are satisfied that there is no other "correct" explanation other than its existance. Therefore it's not unrealistic to postulate the nature of the existance of said particle. I know this probably sounds like semantics. But I see it like Sherlock Holmes's famous saying: when you eliminate the impossible whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truth.
So someone can postulate the nature of a particular deity if the thing that's left is that said deity exists. Doing so violates none of my precepts.
What is an Atheist?
"What science tells us is that we are but one among hundreds of millions of species that evolved over the course of three and a half billion years on one tiny planet among many orbiting an ordinary star, itself one of possibly billions of solar systems in an ordinary galaxy that contains hundreds of billions of stars, itself located in a cluster of galaxies not so different from millions of other galaxy clusters, themselves whirling away from one another in an expanding cosmic bubble universe that very possibly is only one among a near infinite number of bubble universes. Is it really possible that this entire cosmological multiverse was designed and exists for one tiny subgroup of a single species on one planet in a lone galaxy in that solitary bubble universe? It seems unlikely." (In the hardcover edition, pages 160-161.)
Michael Schermer, "Why Darwin Matters"
Michael Schermer, "Why Darwin Matters"
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
What is an Atheist?
Though evolution is conjecture not fact, it is the infallible dogma of atheism. To question any facet of neo-Darwinism brings a swift retribution. Scientists who try to publish scientific papers questioning facets of the accepted theory are censored and labeled heretics. Can you say....Taliban! (That was for LuLu's pleasure. :p )
What is an Atheist?
Adam Zapple wrote: Though evolution is conjecture not fact, it is the infallible dogma of atheism. To question any facet of neo-Darwinism brings a swift retribution. Scientists who try to publish scientific papers questioning facets of the accepted theory are censored and labeled heretics. Can you say....Taliban! (That was for LuLu's pleasure. :p )
Evolution is a theory that is backed up by physical evidence. It is called a theory because that is what it is- a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
I don't know anyone wthat would suggest it is the full explanation although some creationists seem to think pointing out that is is only a theory appear to believe they are making some significant point that nobody has spotted. The big clue is in the word theory.
As to scientists being censored or labelled as heretics would you like to point out some examples? If their conclusions fly in the face of the evidence presented calling them to question is not the same as censoring or labelling as heretics but part of scientific debate and review. Going in to a sulk is not a constructive scientific approach if theyb can back up their theories they should go for it.
I haven't heard of any creationist being out on trial for heresy after daring to speak their mind or being set on fire for being an agent of god.
You must admit, claiming the existence of fossils is the work of the devil to confuse mankind is not exactly a convincing arguement.
Evolution is a theory that is backed up by physical evidence. It is called a theory because that is what it is- a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
I don't know anyone wthat would suggest it is the full explanation although some creationists seem to think pointing out that is is only a theory appear to believe they are making some significant point that nobody has spotted. The big clue is in the word theory.
As to scientists being censored or labelled as heretics would you like to point out some examples? If their conclusions fly in the face of the evidence presented calling them to question is not the same as censoring or labelling as heretics but part of scientific debate and review. Going in to a sulk is not a constructive scientific approach if theyb can back up their theories they should go for it.
I haven't heard of any creationist being out on trial for heresy after daring to speak their mind or being set on fire for being an agent of god.
You must admit, claiming the existence of fossils is the work of the devil to confuse mankind is not exactly a convincing arguement.
What is an Atheist?
Evolution is a "theory" but according to physicist Paul Davis it is one whose evidence, though still incomplete, is strong enough to label it a fact.
As a Christian pluralist I have no problem with it. In fact if one thinks about it we are composed of stardust. Neat thought.
Shalom
Ted:-6
As a Christian pluralist I have no problem with it. In fact if one thinks about it we are composed of stardust. Neat thought.
Shalom
Ted:-6