Damn the French

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:29 am

I heard about this just recently. Couldn't believe a) it happened b) I missed it.

"Freedom fries" was a short-lived name used by some in the United States for French fries. The "freedom fries" affair was an example of anti-French sentiment in the United States. In the international debate over the decision to launch the 2003 invasion of Iraq, France expressed strong opposition in the United Nations to taking such action. The French position was not popular among conservatives in the United States, leading some Republicans to campaign for the boycotting of French goods and businesses and the removal of the country's name from products.

I wonder if the French really want credit for french fries. I don't think they do.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:13 am

Wow-that is old news. Yup, they sure did call them Freedom Fries, and took out the word "French." Some still do today. I know our school cafeteria had them listed as such, and the kids called them that. Otherwise, I really don't eat them in the first place.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:18 am

Kids didn't care-just give them the fries to eat!

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:31 am

frites!!!!

I really dont think they are french anyway, or french toast for that matter.

Je aime la Franciase. I dont think that verb is right but oh well.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:37 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I remember what it was now... sauerkraut was renamed liberty cabbage. :wah:

Shut your mouth. Really? LOL!

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:53 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I remember what it was now... sauerkraut was renamed liberty cabbage. :wah:
:wah: Oh snooze! What would they call wienersnizzles!

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:59 am

Here's yet another thread today with an inflammatory title setting out to be deliberately insulting to a whole race. For shame.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:02 am

Damn the Aussies. Damn everybody while we are at it.

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:02 am

AussiePam wrote: Here's yet another thread today with an inflammatory title setting out to be deliberately insulting to a whole race. For shame.

Should I stop asking for Freedom Letters?

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:08 am

That's a bit what the FG sounds like today, Designer Girl. I like almost all the Americans I've met, and that's a lot of Americans over a long time so I won't respond in kind. I wonder how many French damners know any actual French people, or have ever spent time much in France... Easy to make light jokes around all this. It's not the content of this thread I find offensive. It's the deliberately inflammatory title. I repeat - For shame!!!

Post by **spot** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:12 am

The affront which led to outraged rednecks renaming their chips as Freedom Fries began as an after-dinner jest by Shirley Williams, a long-respected left-wing English politician. As initially reported in The Times (London) on July 9, 2002:Baroness Williams of Crosby recalled a story told to her by "my good friend Tony Blair" recently in Brighton. Blair, Bush and Jacques Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of the French economy. "The problem with the French," Bush confided in Blair, "is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur."Everyone and his dog instantly denied this at Downing Street, and the consensus has ever since been that Shirley was being wicked.

DesignerGal · Post by **DesignerGal** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:24 am

I have to say Aussie, I dont want to offend you. My step mother is French and she has 11 brothers and sisters who have children ranging from 6 years to 32 years.

My sisters and I spent three weeks in France in 2000 and I have to say that I found everything "French" completely opposite of the stereotypes I heard. For instance, Paris isnt dirty. It is a beautiful city. If there are "dirty" parts, I wouldnt be surprised as Atlanta (my birth land) and Washington DC (my now residence) have their own "dirty" areas, any city does I would imagine.

I also found that the French people were very willing to help an "ignorant American" such as myself get around. They were very considerate and nice. I tried very hard to ask for things in their native language and they would pipe up in English, "oh you wnat a lighter?!?!? Here."

I will not be the one to ever jump on a French hating bandwagon. I was fully embraced by any one I met there. I would LOVE to go back every year!!! My step mother's nephews are close to my age so we really got to experience the culture from the locals. It was awesome!

Post by **spot** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:30 am

AussiePam wrote: It's not the content of this thread I find offensive. It's the deliberately inflammatory title. I repeat - For shame!!!Pam, the title is an ironic comment on a prior sequence of titles starting with Terrorism = America. I'm quite sure that the thread title isn't a damning of the French, it's a silent criticism of the previous thread titles.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:37 am

spot wrote: Pam, the title is an ironic comment on a prior sequence of titles starting with Terrorism = America. I'm quite sure that the thread title isn't a damning of the French, it's a silent criticism of the previous thread titles.

If that's the case Spot, we should call a halt RIGHT NOW.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:39 am

By all means, Bez. It's undoubtedly the case, yes.

If anyone's capable of closing the thread, I'd be grateful if they'd flag it so as soon as possible.

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:05 am

AussiePam wrote: That's a bit what the FG sounds like today, Designer Girl. I like almost all the Americans I've met, and that's a lot of Americans over a long time so I won't respond in kind. I wonder how many French damners know any actual French people, or have ever spent time much in France... Easy to make light jokes around all this. It's not the content of this thread I find offensive. It's the deliberately inflammatory title. I repeat - For shame!!!

Hey Pam, you're even sexier when you're angry :yh_wink

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:24 pm

My daughter is half french.

Though not the half that loves french fries.

The silliness of the whole thread is that the French did not invent French Fries. Anyone who clicks the eye catching title will realize the humour of the thread near instantaneously. If the title of this thread is grounds for deletion at FG I'd laugh myself to tears.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:57 pm

Not appreciated, Snooze. You want a thread about French fries.. call it "Damn French Fries". You want to debate about things French, no problem. You want to debate whether all Americans are terrorists.. Okay.. Call the thread something like

"America = Terrorism according to CNN" or whatever.. and go from there.

You want to bring to light some unsavoury stuff done by a few British soldiers, good. Go for it.

You want to debate the political decisions of the US President, the UK PM, the French President? Yes!! But let's not assume that alll Americans, British citizens, French people are carbon copies of Mr Bush, Mr Blair and M Chirac.

I don't belived these threads were intended as ironic fun. They were intended to be incendiary and mischievous. And no number of smoozie schmalzy "Great things about the Aussies, French, Americans, Brits, Canadians" can just wipe out that nastiness.

There are lots of fine people in FG But as a group I think we are diminished by the existence of and mass condoning participation in such threads. I guess the question is whether one should just walk away but silence can appear as a form of consent. This time I chose to speak out.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:04 pm

And your opinion was heard.

If you would like to start a thread on how thread titles should be policed you are welcome to do so.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:11 pm

Good, thanks Koan. And I'm not after anything other than self-policing. I've had my say now and am completely finished and off to do some work. Also, I'm not having any kind of go at individual people - though I found Golem's trashing of England unfortunate. I enjoy most of your posts and we all have our moments. Maybe this is one of mine. :yh_smiley

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:39 pm

Damn the French must be mad at being blamed for French Fries.

Damn the French sure are superior culinary artists.

Damn the French for not telling us which wine to have with our fries.

golem · Post by **golem** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 12:56 am

Thereâ€™s a great deal of trouble brewing in Europe because of the pro-islamic stance of Chirac and his government.

Chirac is seen as the European elder statesman.

His cold grey corpse like hand is steering the creation of Eurabia in no small way because he and his supporters see the raw materials that Europe lacks being available in African states that are for the most part islamic. He believes that he can reach a negotiated co-existence with the Mohammedans. In that he is utterly wrong as time will tell.

Make no mistake, he, along with a great many Europeans, HATES the US. Not just Bush and the Bush administration, like De Gaul he HATES the US and sees access to the raw materials of Africa as a means to allow the EU to be a real apples and apples competitor to the uS in world markets and possibly in the future in world affairs.

Once the EU establishes an EU wide armed force, and they will, the writing is on the wall. Then things WILL be dangerous.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:05 am

golem wrote: Thereâ€™s a great deal of trouble brewing in Europe because of the pro-islamic stance of Chirac and his government.Only someone so nailed to the outside edge of reality could think so:

Jacques Chirac hinted strongly yesterday that France will soon introduce legislation banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves to school, saying most French people saw "something aggressive" in the veil and that the secular state could not tolerate "ostentatious signs of religious proselytism".

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:09 am

AussiePam wrote: Not appreciated, Snooze. You want a thread about French fries.. call it "Damn French Fries". You want to debate about things French, no problem. You want to debate whether all Americans are terrorists.. Okay.. Call the thread something like

"America = Terrorism according to CNN" or whatever.. and go from there.

You want to bring to light some unsavoury stuff done by a few British soldiers, good. Go for it.

You want to debate the political decisions of the US President, the UK PM, the French President? Yes!! But let's not assume that alll Americans, British citizens, French people are carbon copies of Mr Bush, Mr Blair and M Chirac.

I don't belived these threads were intended as ironic fun. They were intended to be incendiary and mischievous. And no number of smoozie schmalzy "Great things about the Aussies, French, Americans, Brits, Canadians" can just wipe out that nastiness.

There are lots of fine people in FG But as a group I think we are diminished by the existence of and mass condoning participation in such threads. I guess the question is whether one should just walk away but silence can appear as a form of consent. This time I chose to speak out.

Spot on Pam. A little diplomacy wouldn't go amiss sometimes.

I only know what I read and hear on the news about world events. It's not something I study, therefore I cannot join in the discussions with any kind of 'educated' comment, however I do think our input is important and I don't think we should hold back if we have an opinion.

I find it disappointing when people join a forum that has an 'International' membership and then proceed to 'slag off' particular countries.

Have a good day/night everyone :-6 may your 'Gods', whoever they may be, go with you !

golem · Post by **golem** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:16 am

spot wrote: Only someone so nailed to the outside edge of reality could think so:

Jacques Chirac hinted strongly yesterday that France will soon introduce legislation banning Muslim girls from wearing headscarves to school, saying most French people saw "something aggressive" in the veil and that the secular state could not tolerate "ostentatious signs of religious proselytism".

There IS a great deal of trouble brewing in Europe because of the pro-islamic stance of Chirac and his government.

Chirac has tried to ride a tiger.

Now heâ€™s trying to get off as it takes him where he didnâ€™t expect it to go.

Heâ€™s too late.

And the degree and amount of hatred of the US in Europe really is astounding.

Again, from a UK source, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p ... efault.stm

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:22 am

Damn golem for not realizing this thread is about french fries and trying to make it political.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:24 am

golem wrote: And the degree and amount of hatred of the US in Europe really is astounding.

Again, from a UK source, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p ... efault.stm

Please, everyone, at least click on his link and see whether you can grasp what he's talking about.

The countries polled were UK, France, Russia, Indonesia, South Korea, Jordan, Australia, Canada, Israel, Brazil and the US.

Only three of those ten countries are European. Two of those three had a favourable view of America. I note in passing that the UK had a higher favourable rating of America than Israel did.

This report is supposed to indicate an "astounding" "degree and amount of hatred of the US in Europe"? Again, it goes with the territory, golem. Only someone nailed to the outside edge of reality could think so.

golem · Post by **golem** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:42 am

koan wrote: Damn golem for not realizing this thread is about french fries and trying to make it political.

May be it's a chip on my shoulder!:wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:33 am

AussiePam wrote: That's a bit what the FG sounds like today, Designer Girl. I like almost all the Americans I've met, and that's a lot of Americans over a long time so I won't respond in kind. I wonder how many French damners know any actual French people, or have ever spent time much in France... Easy to make light jokes around all this. It's not the content of this thread I find offensive. It's the deliberately inflammatory title. I repeat - For shame!!!Wha'?!?

Did you read the opening thread? It's obviously bit of sarcasm to point at the silliness of Americans. It's Koan's apparently favorite theme.

Take a deep cleansing breath, Pam.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:40 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I have never 'slagged off' anyone's country and I didn't appreciate Pam's reference to some of our attempts to defuse the tension as "smoozie schmalzy" threads.

I find it amazing that you two in particular, that have always appeared to be level headed, could work yourselves into a snit about a three word title that in my opinion means very little. What does "damn the French" mean anyway? Was Koan damning them to hell when I doubt she even believes in it?

If the thread had continued to be some misplaced hatred rant against all things French, then I could understand this... but it isn't. I suggest we all start using a little more restraint before screaming race hatred in here.

I haven't worked myself into a 'snit' as you put it. I just pointed out that In MY opinion, folks could be a little more 'measured' in their choice of words or phrases.

Where is anyone screaming 'race hatred' ?

Where were YOU accused of 'slagging off' another country ?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:43 am

Accountable wrote: Wha'?!?

Did you read the opening thread? It's obviously bit of sarcasm to point at the silliness of Americans. It's Koan's apparently favorite theme.

Take a deep cleansing breath, Pam.

I realised that ACC....it's the thread title that could be thought provocative.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 8:36 am

Bez wrote: I realised that ACC....it's the thread title that could be thought provocative.Perhaps you didn't notice it was the third of a series of such titles, and realize that it was just an implied comment on how silly the first two were.

first thread: "Terrorism = America"

second thread: "Military Brutality and Murder = UK"

third thread "Damn the French"

Perhaps the title would have been more clearly satirical had it retained the mathematical sign and read "Gourmandism = France", for example, instead. Either way it offers not the slightest hint of provocation, racist or otherwise, against the French, given the existing context.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:00 am

koan wrote: I heard about this just recently. Couldn't believe a) it happened b) I missed it.

"Freedom fries" was a short-lived name used by some in the United States for French fries. The "freedom fries" affair was an example of anti-French sentiment in the United States. In the international debate over the decision to launch the 2003 invasion of Iraq, France expressed strong opposition in the United Nations to taking such action. The French position was not popular among conservatives in the United States, leading some Republicans to campaign for the boycotting of French goods and businesses and the removal of the country's name from products.

I wonder if the French really want credit for french fries. I don't think they do.

Nothing wrong at all with this post in my opinion but the discussion that COULD have been had was tainted because of the thread title. OK...maybe people are over sensitive....that's human beings for you.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:03 am

spot wrote: Perhaps you didn't notice it was the third of a series of such titles, and realize that it was just an implied comment on how silly the first two were.

first thread: "Terrorism = America"

second thread: "Military Brutality and Murder = UK"

third thread "Damn the French"

Perhaps the title would have been more clearly satirical had it retained the mathematical sign and read "Gourmandism = France", for example, instead. Either way it offers not the slightest hint of provocation, racist or otherwise, against the French, given the existing context.

I believe it was made more sensitive because of the threads you mention Spot and yes I had noticed the other threads....who wouldn't have ?