Beware

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:59 pm

If one thinks that they can enter a forum and expect sincere advice

BEWARE!!

About Trolls and Flamers

As someone in another newsgroup said, it's troll season.

For what it's worth......

We have several people here (at the moment, anyway) who have certain basic troll characteristics:

They are unable or unwilling to take responsibility for their words or behavior.

They are unable or unwilling to consider the possibility that they have brought a great deal of dislike upon themselves.

I don't know for certain, but my feeling is that each of them is filled with self-hate, and is unable to face that issue.

OK.

I've dealt with self-haters before, and this is what you can expect:

The only thing they can do with their venom is to flush it out on other people. As a result, everything they say about you is a reflection of their feelings about themselves.

Because of their self-hate, there is nothing that you can say that is as bad as what they see in themselves. You can't hurt them, no matter how hard you try.

The only thing that relieves their self-hate is to see other people in pain. If you let them get to you, that only encourages them. That's why they're here in the first place.

The point is that flaming them hurts you more than it hurts them.

What makes it worse--been here, seen this before, too--is that these trolls are insiders. Yes, they hurt, they're depressed, they are at least as far down as any of us. What that means is that they know all the right buttons to push to make us angry. They have no conscience that prevents them from pushing those buttons.

That is the difference between them and us. They have turned abusive. Yes, that does make a difference. I've encountered some recovering abusers on the net, and I learned a few things from that experience. The one thing that sustains an abuser is denial; an abuser cannot allow hirself to be open to the slightest possibility that sie is harming another human being. They blame anyone and anything else in sight, but virtually all of that blame is directed at the victim, in one way or another. Abusers REFUSE to take responsibility for their behavior.

In dealing with an abuser, particularly from a treatment perspective, the first and most important step is to break that denial. It is not only breaking the denial about hurting other people. It is essential to break the denial that they are not responsible for their behavior. They must learn that they have to take responsibility for everything that they do, and it is a hard lesson to teach.

Until an abuser's denial is broken, it is dangerous to give them any sympathy. Sympathy gives them a way out, a way to avoid taking responsibility. Someone else made them the way they are; they're not responsible. This is utter garbage, and to give them this opening is truly a disservice.

So.

They are here to feed on our pain. We don't have to give them that satisfaction.

They stay only as long as we feed them well. If we want them to go, all we have to do is to stop feeding them.

The solution for trolls is in two parts. First, recognize and understand that they are here to hurt us. They way that they hurt us is to beat on us with their own rage. Recognize that everything they say about us is a reflection of their own self-hate. Even when they hit our triggers, it is their rage, their self-hatred that they are giving us. We don't have to let ourselves be hurt by the fact that they hate themselves. We don't have to accept that. We can let them drown in their self-hate, simply by ignoring them.

And that is the second part. If you want a troll to go away, ignore hir. When no one responds to them, they are left with their own venom. That is the last thing that a troll wants to have to deal with.

Let us build an ASD zoo. Let us build cages, and put the appropriate names on those cages. Then let us put a sign in front of those cages:

DO NOT FEED THE ANIMALS.
Then, most importantly, let us not feed the animals. Killfile or ignore them, but do not respond to them, and do not accept their pain as your own.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:14 pm

Is yet a 3rd posting of this same "information" really neccessary? We're not idiots you know. Well, most of us aren't.

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:34 pm

flopstock wrote: Sweetie, I've just gotta ask how long you were lurking before joining us and starting to post. Seriously, I'm curious.

We have a couple of thousand members or so, several hundred that have actually posted..:wah:

I've already seen you label a good friend of mine 'arrogant', when- if you had bothered reading his posts, you would have understood that he is anything and everything 'but' arrogant...

I won't mention what some of those things are that spring to mind...lol, but trust me..he's sweeter then honey..:-4

Maybe you could read your warning and ponder your own thoughts and posts a little before attempting a group analysis of folks I promise you will come to love if you can just open your heart and mind to them... okay guard your mind with nomad!:p

That is fair but my remark of "Arrogant" was not a label but observation.

Maybe you and I see arrogant in a different definition.

To tell some one that they will be the first person to pick them up when they fall is arrogant. Why even assume that this person can't take care of themselves, is condescending. Comes of like they are superior to the poster.

It is what I felt as I do not know them as well as you proclaim. It is sometimes very difficult to size up anyone in an NG.

Most are sincere and helpful and then there are those that hang out in packs and no matter if their comrades are out of line, they defend their actions. That is totally uncool.Think for yourselves instead of the mob mentality.

I don't troll or lurk. I came here with what I felt to be a real issue and simply spotted the newest topics and made a comment because I could relate. I spotted some patronizing and that came of as arrogant and condescending.

Then I posted my concerns without thought that all forums are infected with trolls who jump from one to the next handing out advice as if they know everything. Check it out for yourself and you will find them just about in any forum. They are not exclusive to the one I posted in.

These are the kinds of people who look for victims and not necesarily attack everyone. I was overly sensitive to cruel remarks that were not warranted. As such I became the prey.

I am a very kind and gentle being who does not take it out on the world for my personal miseries. But I am not a woos, either.

Provoke and I will sting.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:46 pm

Nomad = Troll?

:yh_giggle

:wah:

:yh_rotfl

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:48 pm

Maybe a troll doll..................

Attached files

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:49 pm

BabyRider wrote: Is yet a 3rd posting of this same "information" really neccessary? We're not idiots you know. Well, most of us aren't.

I have no idea about 3rd postings, Baby.

I may have hit submit a second time as the server hesitated for a long time. A simple error that many make. Chill.

Hugh Janus · Post by **Hugh Janus** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:49 pm

Misha wrote:

Provoke and I will sting.

That would be the "sting like a butterfly, float like a bee" quote, would it?

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:55 pm

See what I mean. Like moths to a flame.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:59 pm

Directed at OP:

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:14 pm

SnoozeControl wrote: What! That wasn't an insult to you, it's a common expression and Huge Anus just joined this forum last weekend and I don't know him from Adam.

What's the deal with you, anyway?

EDIT: hidden agenda, anyone?:rolleyes:

I think you have mistaken me for someone else.

I haven't a clue what you are about.

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:24 pm

flopstock wrote: "And if you fall Ill be the first one to help you up"

There is a big difference between the way he wrote it and the way you chose to read it, darlin... that's why I feel that you may want to examine your preconceived notions about our group.

See what I mean?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:24 pm

Misha wrote: I have no idea about 3rd postings, Baby.

I may have hit submit a second time as the server hesitated for a long time. A simple error that many make. Chill.
I'd almost buy that if it weren't in 2 different folders. I tried to tell you we're not stupid....

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:29 pm

BabyRider wrote: I'd almost buy that if it weren't in 2 different folders. I tried to tell you we're not stupid....
Sorry but I have no idea what you are going on about.

A moderator already explained to me about double posts and I replied back that it was done in error.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:29 pm

May I ask why, then, if you believe this place to be infested and over-run with trolls...do you choose to stay? If nothing here is to your liking, why are you bothering? No one has tried to provoke you, and your little threat that you "sting" is greeted with some seriously hearty laughter from this poster, let me tell you. Best laugh I've had in weeks.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:32 pm

Misha wrote: Sorry but I have no idea what you are going on about.

A moderator already explained to me about double posts and I replied back that it was done in error.
I'll type slowly for ya, k?? You posted the same thing, identical posts, mirror images of each other 3 times. Then you said it was in error. If it was in error, why did it show up in intros AND in relationships and advice? That isn't possible, unless you moved to each folder and put the same post up. Twice. Capice? Comprende? Get it now?

Erinna1112 · Post by **Erinna1112** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:38 pm

Anytime you have a group of people like this, there are going to be some that bond more than others, some that disagree, some that like to do nothing but stir up trouble, and some that just lurk around the edges. It's human nature, and only the seriously paranoid would find something sinister in it.

I disagree that there is no value in a place like this. The OP is, of course, welcome to his/her own opinion, but I think it's way wide of the mark in this case. There's the most incredible sense of community - even family - here, and I'm glad I came back.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:42 pm

Erinna1112 wrote: Anytime you have a group of people like this, there are going to be some that bond more than others, some that disagree, some that like to do nothing but stir up trouble, and some that just lurk around the edges. It's human nature, and only the seriously paranoid would find something sinister in it.

I disagree that there is no value in a place like this. The OP is, of course, welcome to his/her own opinion, but I think it's way wide of the mark in this case. There's the most incredible sense of community - even family - here, and I'm glad I came back.
You've seen first hand just how much family is here. And I'm damn glad you came back, too.

Misha · Post by **Misha** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:57 pm

BabyRider wrote: I'll type slowly for ya, k?? You posted the same thing, identical posts, mirror images of each other 3 times. Then you said it was in error. If it was in error, why did it show up in intros AND in relationships and advice? That isn't possible, unless you moved to each folder and put the same post up. Twice. Capice? Comprende? Get it now?

I believe the moderator removed that second one so I still don't know why you keep going on about it. What folder are you implying?

I meant to enter it in intros and no wheres else. Get it?

Cut some slack and chill.

Post by **spot** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:06 pm

Misha wrote: I meant to enter it in intros and no wheres else. Get it?

Cut some slack and chill.Misha, you've made 50 posts so far and most of it has been aggressive, "Cut some slack and chill" particularly so. It's an imperative, it's confrontational and it's extraordinarily ungainly. It lacks whatever quality a post needs if it is to mollify.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:21 am

a lot of what you say is true misha & we know who the troll behaviour people are, however it must be pointed out to you that posts with the content most of yours have would seem to be falling into that catagory

you may have to ask yourself - why stick around?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:32 am

Misha wrote: I believe the moderator removed that second one so I still don't know why you keep going on about it. What folder are you implying?

I meant to enter it in intros and no wheres else. Get it?

Cut some slack and chill.
That's a lie. Straight up, no holds barred a plain and simple lie. There is no way you could have "mistakenly" put up the exact same thread in 2 different folders. Give the people here a BIT more credit than you give yourself, dimbulb. Why did it show up in intros AND in relations and advice if you did not intend it to? You need to give the people here more credit than you give ourself, 'cause I guran-phuckin-tee we have you beat inthe intelligence quotient by a LONG shot.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:37 am

Nicely put, Diuretic!!!

I like the Dummies books. First one I met was Photoshop for Dummies - which is one of the most hilarious textbooks I've ever swatted up. And excellent as well.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:49 am

Misha wrote: I believe the moderator removed that second one so I still don't know why you keep going on about it. What folder are you implying?

I meant to enter it in intros and no wheres else. Get it?

Cut some slack and chill.
Bullshit. You meant to post it everywhere you could think of and not get called on it. Well guess what?? You got called on it. I, for one, think you're a simpering, attention mongering fool who cannot think for himself. You intentionally posted this crap in more than one folder for what reason I don't know....perhaps to dissuade future members from joining? No clue here, but I do for a fact know that you have an agenda that none of us have figured out yet....but you can bank that we will.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:05 am

I spent a bit of time thinking about Mishas original thread before I posted a reply.

I now find myself wishing I'd spent the time doing something else.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:34 am

flopstock wrote: This is moverguy, isn't it?:wah:

Now i get it!:wah:I knew I smelled something. I just know it ain't gin you wine cowhide.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:52 am

Pinky wrote: What did Moverguy do then? Apart from try and join as IMMoverguy a couple of months back, or was it IAMoverguy? Something like that. Subtle, eh?:wah:The type enjoys setting up genuine caring people for a laugh, then stirring the resulting anger like one does to a campfire.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:52 am

*getting out bucket to douse fire*

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:02 am

chonsigirl wrote: *getting out bucket to douse fire*:wah:

Thanks, Smokie!

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:12 am

:wah: Swing batter swing!

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:15 am

This is just like a family picnic. *cutting sticks & digging out the marshmallows for roasting*

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:36 am

Listen up.

I'm a very kind person. Often too kind.

But even I'm getting fed up.

How many threads need to be devoted to this guy?

I resent his provocations.

We here in the Garden deserves better.

How's about we stop responding and move on to better things?

Our efforts could be better appreciated elsewhere.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:41 am

SnoozeControl wrote: I really like you, Cher. :yh_clap

Right back at ya, Snoozie

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:28 am

cherandbuster wrote:

How's about we stop responding and move on to butter things?

.Good idea,:wah: Pina's having problems with her fridge at the mo,

so she is freezing her butter and taking it out when she needs it.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:35 am

Cher, you are wise.

Post by **spot** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:01 am

BabyRider wrote: Bullshit. You meant to post it everywhere you could think of and not get called on it. Well guess what?? You got called on it.You might also like to point out that he plagiarized it from Diane Wilson's column at http://www.firelily.com/support/depression/trolls.html

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:28 am

theme song going through my head...

Trollbusters...

If there's somethin' strange in your neighborhood

Who ya gonna call (trollbusters)

If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good

Who ya gonna call (trollbusters)

I ain't afraid a no troll

I ain't afraid a no troll

If you're seein' things runnin' thru your thread

Who can you call (trollbusters)

An' invisible man post'n in your thread

Oh who ya gonna call (trollbusters)

I ain't afraid a no troll

I ain't afraid a no troll

Who ya gonna call (trollbusters)

pina · Post by **pina** » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:56 am

abbey wrote: Good idea,:wah: Pina's having problems with her fridge at the mo,

so she is freezing her butter and taking it out when she needs it.

Hey Abbey! What you doing putting my fridge problems in here, it should be in the Butter Thread :wah:

If anyone has a spare fridge please let me know and I'll take it off your hands free of charge.