Wife beaters who say sorry to go free

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:01 am

This makes me mad.

Wife beaters who say sorry to go free

By James Burleigh

(Filed: 12/04/2006)

Men who commit domestic violence should be spared jail sentences if they appear genuinely sorry for their crimes, according to draft guidelines published yesterday.

The Sentencing Guidelines Council, which issues directions to judges in England and Wales, said people who beat their spouses could instead receive community orders or suspended sentences if they showed "genuine signs of remorse".

Wife beaters should attend courses to tackle their offending, although one study has shown that around a third of those who took part in abuser programmes committed further domestic violence within a year.

Lord Phillips, the Lord Chief Justice and chairman of the council, stressed that domestic violence cases should be treated no less seriously than other violent crimes.

However, the guidelines said: "If the court is satisfied that the offender genuinely intends to reform his/her behaviour, and there is a real prospect of rehabilitation being successful, it may be appropriate to impose a sentence that will allow the offender to be rehabilitated.

"Rather than the imposition of a short custodial sentence, an appropriate disposal in such situations might be a suspended sentence order or a community order, in either case with a requirement to attend a domestic violence programme."

Cases which could lead to the offender escaping jail could include those where the attacker "shows genuine signs of remorse", or where the parties want to stay together, said the council.

Domestic violence should be punished more severely if it was witnessed by children, or if they were aware of it taking place in the home, said the document. It also stressed that any assertion that the victim had "provoked" an attack should be "treated with great care".

If the victim expressed any pleas for mercy on their partner's behalf the courts should be sure that they were genuine views and not expressed under duress or put them at risk of further violence, it added.

Sandra Horley, the chief executive of Refuge, the leading domestic violence charity, said that it would be "a travesty" if the draft guidelines come into effect. "In short they give men a licence to batter women as long as they are able to put on a remorseful act in front of a judge," Mrs Horley told The Times.

She said that the proposals would reverse years of campaigning for the issue of domestic violence to be taken seriously.

Mrs Horley said: "Women and children need protection and deserve justice. Living in safety is a human right."

The guidelines have gone to consultation until June 12 before a final version is drawn up. Nearly half of all female murder victims are killed by their partners or ex-partners.

According to the British Crime Survey, 26 per cent of women and 17 per cent of men aged 16 to 69 have experienced domestic violence. The survey estimated there were 15 million incidents a year.

The Probation Service's Integrated Domestic Abuse Programme runs classes over 12 to 13 weeks for offenders.

However a third of men completing abuser programmes and more than two thirds of those jailed or fined went on to commit further violence within a year.

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "Discretion should only ever be used with extreme caution. Mistakes could result in the most appalling consequences."

Ã‚© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2006.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:10 am

That is wrong. Look at the statistics at the end of the article!

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:21 am

Yep sure and next it will be "if you promise to never murder again, we will let you go, come on show genuine remorse"

WHAT A LOAD!

So they just do the crime and then fake remorse yes I see this as a huge step towards wiping out domestic violence. Uh huh, sure!!!!

I am with you OM, it makes me mad too. Having lived next door to this crap for almost 3 years I can just see that idiot faking his way through remorse.

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:42 am

David Davis, the shadow home secretary, said: "Discretion should only ever be used with extreme caution. Mistakes could result in the most appalling consequences."

What an understatement......peadophiles are also getting away with 'Warnings' which mean they don't get put on the 'Sex offenders register' . This is all SO wrong...

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:57 am

sixyearsleft wrote: Surly rehabilitation is a better option than prison?

if you set it along side a parole order,

the ultimate criteria is to stop these ppl committing dispicable acts

and prison isn't always the best choice,

when we are born we are all a blank slate, and a lot of abusive ppl come from an abusive upbringing, the chain has to be broken somehow, or generation after generation will be just like a chip of the old block.
However what of the victims in all this, they now live in fear these so called rehab's are "fixed" what a load of BS. The victims will never live easily. A crying shame.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:14 am

sixyearsleft wrote: not everyrthing is black and white minks,

the whole point is to cut down the number of victims,

every case should be judged seperetly on its own merits,

some ppl really do need help, including the victims.

It's a darn shame it happens in the first place

If they are going to try and keep these kinds of people out of jail, I suggest heavy serius FREE councelling for both the abuser and abusee, and maybe then both can appreciate what the other goes through. Hmmmmmm

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:27 am

sixyearsleft wrote: yes it is a darn shame, the thought of it sickens me, i ask myself why?

i know depression, alcohol and other such things do play a role, and the end of the day there must be deeper issues for someone to be like that.

yes I agree, but what is disturbing is how is it the abuser thinks it is their right to abuse another? I mean how is it many don't see it as wrong.?

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:35 am

sixyearsleft wrote: yes it is a darn shame, the thought of it sickens me, i ask myself why?

i know depression, alcohol and other such things do play a role, and the end of the day there must be deeper issues for someone to be like that.

If these things are a one off then OK counselling and support may be fine, but so many go on to offend over and over again....the balance is all wrong when a mum who's kids bunk off school can be sent to prison...but a man who beats up the same woman is let off.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:44 am

sixyearsleft wrote: Difficult questions, difficult subject, thats the problem it seams acceptable to them thus it must have been common place in there upbringing.

makes me wonder how in a persons life did they loose the concept of the "golden rule" I can't fathom that.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:59 am

sixyearsleft wrote: Nor i, but we must try to find out

Perhaps it 't the "tit for tat" attitude we need to break down, as in "I was abused, therefore I will grow to be an abuser in revenge" I dunno it is sad.

venus · Post by **venus** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:39 pm

minks wrote: Perhaps it 't the "tit for tat" attitude we need to break down, as in "I was abused, therefore I will grow to be an abuser in revenge" I dunno it is sad.

see now that one pisses me off, how many people do you know that had really and l mean really crappy childhoods and were abused in all the word can mean..

How many of them go on to abuse.....

I get really angry when l hear that being bandied about, its like a get out of jail free card, well l was abused so feel sorry fpr me. thats why l attack children or beat my wife..

Bullux l say ever heard of free will and a conscience.. unless you are a psychopath or a really messed sociopath then we all have one some of us just choose not to listen..

It was hard enough for a woman or man to get things done with the old laws on domestic violence, what chance do they have now..

Im really sorry, how many times has that been said sincerely and then the next day they are having the life kicked out of them again..

bloody laws :-5

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:44 am

sixyearsleft wrote: including the victims.

Yeh why not help the victim's............for god sake the wife beater is a criminal the wife is a VICTIM ....i don't give a flying f**K what happen's to the poor sniffling coward who beat his wife senseless.....so to help HIM IS WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS WORLD ..:-5

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:54 am

If this new action with abusers is taken, 2 things are going to happen: We are going to set the justice system back about 75 years, and there are going to be a LOT more dead women.

These men, of whom I've known MANY, are not sorry. Even when they are standing there, looking all pitiable and shameful, are never truly sorry. They believe their significant other is their property, to be treated as they see fit. They do NOT change their ways, they do NOT just "become better." Prison IS the answer, regardless of what some may think. Preferrably, prison with a cell mate who's name is "Killer", has a high libido, a 14" dick, and doesn't care where he gets his rocks off.

This is infuriating, it's disgusting and it's a slap in the face to ALL women everywhere.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:56 am

LC, not to put you on the spot here, and don't reply if you don't feel like it, but what are your opinions of this "method" of dealing with abusers? Tell us what you've seen when a guy beating his girl turns into when the cops show up.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:58 am

sixyearsleft wrote: ppl like you is whats wrong with the world, its not only the wifes that are the victims its also the children who mentally suffer, dont you understand that? all your doing is taking the worst case scenario and tagging everyone with the same brush, its not the point that its a dispicable act to beat your wife, the point is to stop wife beating, in some cases prison doesn't work, stop thinking with your heart and use your head,
Anyone that hits CAN be tagged with the same brush. Period. It's not OK, it's not right, and once they get away with it and a slap on the wrist, it's all that much easier to go back and do it again.

Show me some cases where prison didn't work. And I'll show you cases where the slap on the wrist and "counseling" ended up with a dead woman.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:15 am

sorry, i couldn't be arsed to read this whole thread since domestic violence has been my daily fare for years. i'm a freaking expert. i will tell you this....when we show up the sniveling bullies weep and cry and grovel and and are sooooooooo sorry. yep, sorry that their sorry butts are getting cuffed and stuffed and going to jail. i, being a woman, particularly like cuffing up some woman-beater (or rapist or killer). i always look them right in the eyes.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:27 am

sixyearsleft wrote: ppl like you is whats wrong with the world, its not only the wifes that are the victims its also the children who mentally suffer, dont you understand that? all your doing is taking the worst case scenario and tagging everyone with the same brush, its not the point that its a dispicable act to beat your wife, the point is to stop wife beating, in some cases prison doesn't work, stop thinking with your heart and use your head,

Really, have you ever had a man's hand's around your neck squeezing the life out of your body..BECAUSE I HAVE and yes i had my then three yearold in my arm's so dont tell me that because of people like ME that WIFE BEATING WANKER'S GET A PAT ON THE BACK .

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:37 am

sixyearsleft wrote: your job is to dredge the worst in society, do you not see the chains?

the criminals that you are aware of by name and comminality, lets say a father doing time for violence then his siblings do the same.:-2 what about his siblings? what chains?

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:47 am

Oh these guys are sorry alright. Sorry they got caught!

My "ex" apologized every time. He was so sorry. He'd change. Yada yada. Then he went on to do it again, and again, and again. Looking back, I believe if he'd been given jail time, it would have made me realize a lot sooner that I didn't have to live like that and I'd have gotten out way sooner. 6 months in jail, anger management while they are there, 2 years of probation, and an automatic prison term is the way I'd go if they broke that probation. A slap on the wrist and send them on their merry way is not going to stop the abuse. If laws were more strictly enforced, it'd send out a message. Unfortunately, our judicial system here is more for the abuser than the victim.:-5

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:49 am

sixyearsleft wrote: I'm so sorry, and its no wonder your feelings are touched,

its a very difficult subject and one that is deeply upsetting especially to the victims,

things like this must bring back terrible memories,

did anyone give you any support?

Your sympathy, you can shove it i don't need it ..WHEN YOU HAVE THE FIRST CLUE WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THEN SLAG OFF BATTERED WIFE'S UNTIL THEN DO YOUR RESEARCH.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:00 am

sixyearsleft wrote:

I know what i talking about, my mother got stabbed, and two off my sisters were abused, this subject brings me to tears becouse i was to little and i couldn't do anything about it,

i dont mean no harm, i just want to understand WHY

Why what... from where I'm sitting you have already blamed people like ME . Men hit women and get away with it whats to get .Why blame the man when you can blame the wife...

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:02 am

There was a couple who lived near me. Mommy is dead, daddy's in prison for killing her, the kids are now being raised by her parents. I have to wonder how many times the cops were called to their home and let it go. I wonder if he ever went to court. It's too late to wonder that now though, isn't it? The system does not have the time or money to research whether or not prison time works. They don't have the resources to see if rehabilitation works. Who would do it? They are understaffed and cutting back even more because of the financial crunch. For now, the only option is showing the guy that there will be zero tolerance and while they are in prison, it would give the woman time to decide if she wants to continue on with life as she knows it.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:10 am

sixyearsleft wrote: ppl like you is whats wrong with the world, its not only the wifes that are the victims its also the children who mentally suffer, dont you understand that? all your doing is taking the worst case scenario and tagging everyone with the same brush, its not the point that its a dispicable act to beat your wife, the point is to stop wife beating, in some cases prison doesn't work, stop thinking with your heart and use your head,

Try the first line don't bother replying because i'm gonner pass on your answer- GOOD BY.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:57 am

How do you rehabilitate a man who believes he has done nothing wrong ..to watch your other half being held face on down on the street by six men while another try's to handcuff him .He feel's no pain. He has the strength of 10 men ... i do because my three year old has just watched daddy hit mummy and the police are taking daddy away.I'm standing there in the street with no shoes on .The young copper feel's sorry for me and explains that he will be kept in over night ...if only it was that simple.... i lived in fear of that bastard for a long time and i was always made to feel like it was MY fault i deserved to be strangled because i'd insulted his mother he threw the dinner at the wall because he'd had a bad day , i deserved to be slapped down in the street because i'd answered back . I'm lucky he's dead now, but someone please tell me ..how do you rehabilitate a man who believe's he's done nothing wrong...

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:00 am

i don't mean to be contrary, but i'm going to say this....rehabilitation is total bull. maybe 01%. maybe. i have worked in prison as well as the street. it's all well and good to theorize. i see the inmates go to bible study just to get out of their cells. i also see them, when released, throw their precious bibles in the trash. it's a con. they're all cons. believe me.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:02 am

oh, and Pants...you know why i became a cop? because i was married to a police chief who beat me.i was just a kid then. i understand perfectly. and any man who has attempted to put a hand on me since has had the shite kicked out of him.