You all seem to like debate, here's one.
It is the yin yang of balance. No masculine without feminine, no light without darkness, no good without evil...and on. How then do we abhor the evil without appreciating how it defines the good?
:yh_yinyan
There can be no good without evil
-
illuminati
- Posts: 197
- Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 12:00 pm
There can be no good without evil
koan wrote: You all seem to like debate, here's one.
It is the yin yang of balance. No masculine without feminine, no light without darkness, no good without evil...and on. How then do we abhor the evil without appreciating how it defines the good?
:yh_yinyan
Interesting conjecture. Our worldly experience would dictate that this is correct. But would not our worldly experience change dramatically if there were no evil?
Surely, the discussion above would not exist.
It is the yin yang of balance. No masculine without feminine, no light without darkness, no good without evil...and on. How then do we abhor the evil without appreciating how it defines the good?
:yh_yinyan
Interesting conjecture. Our worldly experience would dictate that this is correct. But would not our worldly experience change dramatically if there were no evil?
Surely, the discussion above would not exist.
There can be no good without evil
illuminati wrote: Interesting conjecture. Our worldly experience would dictate that this is correct. But would not our worldly experience change dramatically if there were no evil?
Surely, the discussion above would not exist.
Our worldly experience would be moot. Without the option to choose evil and all the different degrees of bad leading up to pious, there would be no personality or division between one person or the next. How utterly boring!!!!
NO DISCUSSIONS WOULD EXIST because there would be nothing to talk about, nothing to criticize, judge or OH DEAR ME no way to feel superior to anyone else. All the righteous people in the world would have no one to talk down to!
So for all the horrible people in the world, the semi-bad and those who have a tendency to err, I celebrate their existence even if they hurt me too sometimes, because without them there would be no point to existence. I guess I include myself as one of those who at least makes poor judgement on occasion. And GOD BLESS ME.
Thanks for the response. Since the discussion can exist. How do you feel about evil?
Surely, the discussion above would not exist.
Our worldly experience would be moot. Without the option to choose evil and all the different degrees of bad leading up to pious, there would be no personality or division between one person or the next. How utterly boring!!!!
NO DISCUSSIONS WOULD EXIST because there would be nothing to talk about, nothing to criticize, judge or OH DEAR ME no way to feel superior to anyone else. All the righteous people in the world would have no one to talk down to!
So for all the horrible people in the world, the semi-bad and those who have a tendency to err, I celebrate their existence even if they hurt me too sometimes, because without them there would be no point to existence. I guess I include myself as one of those who at least makes poor judgement on occasion. And GOD BLESS ME.
Thanks for the response. Since the discussion can exist. How do you feel about evil?
-
telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
There can be no good without evil
koan wrote: there would be no personality or division between one person or the next. How utterly boring!!!!... How do you feel about evil?
I am a Christian and am not shy about it. I mentioned this to a stranger once, and he said, "Oh yeah, I'm a Communist." (He was!) I smiled and said, "You and I have something important in common. We are both Utopians!" See, we Christians look forward to heaven and an earth made new, where there will be no sin and no evil (and we won't miss it). That would seem boring to anyone who gets their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures. It would seem saintly people would be boring. My experience with saintly people is that some are boring, some are not. The criteria doesn't seem to have anything to do with sin- because we all sin. If memory serves me, among people who get their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures there are those who are fun and those who are boring also. Saints don't have a monopoly on boredom.
How do I feel about evil? Same way you do. You may not mind the evil you do, but you can't be pleased by the evil others do to you. I would guess that sometimes you feel bad about the evil you do to those you love, am I right? But it becomes more complicated for a saintly person, because we're supposed to love everyone. So the evil we do to others hurts us as much as it hurts them. Takes all the fun out of it. If everyone loved everyone, there would be no evil, but I doubt it would be boring.
But evil has a definite purpose- for now. It shows who is Utopian and wants to love everybody and who is Undecided and Uncommitted to that.
I am a Christian and am not shy about it. I mentioned this to a stranger once, and he said, "Oh yeah, I'm a Communist." (He was!) I smiled and said, "You and I have something important in common. We are both Utopians!" See, we Christians look forward to heaven and an earth made new, where there will be no sin and no evil (and we won't miss it). That would seem boring to anyone who gets their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures. It would seem saintly people would be boring. My experience with saintly people is that some are boring, some are not. The criteria doesn't seem to have anything to do with sin- because we all sin. If memory serves me, among people who get their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures there are those who are fun and those who are boring also. Saints don't have a monopoly on boredom.
How do I feel about evil? Same way you do. You may not mind the evil you do, but you can't be pleased by the evil others do to you. I would guess that sometimes you feel bad about the evil you do to those you love, am I right? But it becomes more complicated for a saintly person, because we're supposed to love everyone. So the evil we do to others hurts us as much as it hurts them. Takes all the fun out of it. If everyone loved everyone, there would be no evil, but I doubt it would be boring.
But evil has a definite purpose- for now. It shows who is Utopian and wants to love everybody and who is Undecided and Uncommitted to that.
Look what the cat dragged in.
There can be no good without evil
telaquapacky wrote: I am a Christian and am not shy about it. I mentioned this to a stranger once, and he said, "Oh yeah, I'm a Communist." (He was!) I smiled and said, "You and I have something important in common. We are both Utopians!" See, we Christians look forward to heaven and an earth made new, where there will be no sin and no evil (and we won't miss it). That would seem boring to anyone who gets their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures. It would seem saintly people would be boring. My experience with saintly people is that some are boring, some are not. The criteria doesn't seem to have anything to do with sin- because we all sin. If memory serves me, among people who get their main enjoyment from forbidden pleasures there are those who are fun and those who are boring also. Saints don't have a monopoly on boredom.
It is more that the world would be boring, the people in it would be irrelevant. It would be Heaven, not Earth. We could all just stay in Heaven cause there would be no point to being embodied. I think the point here, in the earthly realm is to learn to choose 'good' actions over 'evil' without the choice there are no lessons to be learned and the only point to existence would be the experience of being embodied. Which, to my understanding, is rather like a prison to the spirit contained inside. So why would the spirit choose to be in a prison unless it was to learn to appreciate its heavenly state and to learn from mistakes?
How do I feel about evil? Same way you do. You may not mind the evil you do, but you can't be pleased by the evil others do to you. I find it more interesting than pleasurable or unpleasurable. I would guess that sometimes you feel bad about the evil you do to those you love, am I right? I try to always act out of love, even if it is sometimes hurtful. Sometimes, the only way for a person to learn something is through less than Utopian methods. But it becomes more complicated for a saintly person, because we're supposed to love everyone. Wow, have you been canonized yet?So the evil we do to others hurts us as much as it hurts them. Anyone who believes in Karma can say the same thing. Takes all the fun out of it. Hopefully, I didn't say I found doing evil 'fun'! I think the opposite of boring is interesting. If everyone loved everyone, there would be no evil, but I doubt it would be boring. I thought being born was an original sin in the Christian belief. So is evil not inherent in being human and impossible to avoid?
But evil has a definite purpose- for now. It shows who is Utopian and wants to love everybody and who is Undecided and Uncommitted to that.
How does one judge evil? Here are some Zen thoughts.
To straighten what is crooked, you must first straighten yourself.
Once you are aligned, the whole world looks different.
notice how straightening the crooked thing is no longer important...or even relevant!
Feel the pain of others.
Understand their struggles and disappointments,
their hardships and inadequacies
and open your heart to them.
Realize that everyone is doing the best that they possibly can.
Judge no one.
But, rather, cradle all of humanity in your heart.
Is God compassionate?
How then can God judge us?
If God is too compassionate for judgement, why are we so obsessed with it?
It is more that the world would be boring, the people in it would be irrelevant. It would be Heaven, not Earth. We could all just stay in Heaven cause there would be no point to being embodied. I think the point here, in the earthly realm is to learn to choose 'good' actions over 'evil' without the choice there are no lessons to be learned and the only point to existence would be the experience of being embodied. Which, to my understanding, is rather like a prison to the spirit contained inside. So why would the spirit choose to be in a prison unless it was to learn to appreciate its heavenly state and to learn from mistakes?
How do I feel about evil? Same way you do. You may not mind the evil you do, but you can't be pleased by the evil others do to you. I find it more interesting than pleasurable or unpleasurable. I would guess that sometimes you feel bad about the evil you do to those you love, am I right? I try to always act out of love, even if it is sometimes hurtful. Sometimes, the only way for a person to learn something is through less than Utopian methods. But it becomes more complicated for a saintly person, because we're supposed to love everyone. Wow, have you been canonized yet?So the evil we do to others hurts us as much as it hurts them. Anyone who believes in Karma can say the same thing. Takes all the fun out of it. Hopefully, I didn't say I found doing evil 'fun'! I think the opposite of boring is interesting. If everyone loved everyone, there would be no evil, but I doubt it would be boring. I thought being born was an original sin in the Christian belief. So is evil not inherent in being human and impossible to avoid?
But evil has a definite purpose- for now. It shows who is Utopian and wants to love everybody and who is Undecided and Uncommitted to that.
How does one judge evil? Here are some Zen thoughts.
To straighten what is crooked, you must first straighten yourself.
Once you are aligned, the whole world looks different.
notice how straightening the crooked thing is no longer important...or even relevant!
Feel the pain of others.
Understand their struggles and disappointments,
their hardships and inadequacies
and open your heart to them.
Realize that everyone is doing the best that they possibly can.
Judge no one.
But, rather, cradle all of humanity in your heart.
Is God compassionate?
How then can God judge us?
If God is too compassionate for judgement, why are we so obsessed with it?
-
telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
There can be no good without evil
koan wrote: Is God compassionate? How then can God judge us?
If God is too compassionate for judgement, why are we so obsessed with it?Buncha points here. No time to explore them all. But I found this one promising to touch on. I want to recommend looking at judgment in a different way. Most people think of the Judgment in terms of their own future- "Am I going to make it, or not?" as if it's all about me and my salvation- that's why we're obsessed. For me the Judgment is not about my salvation, which doesn't worry me. It's about God's reputation.
Have you considered that it is not we who are on trial, but God?
If God is too compassionate for judgement, why are we so obsessed with it?Buncha points here. No time to explore them all. But I found this one promising to touch on. I want to recommend looking at judgment in a different way. Most people think of the Judgment in terms of their own future- "Am I going to make it, or not?" as if it's all about me and my salvation- that's why we're obsessed. For me the Judgment is not about my salvation, which doesn't worry me. It's about God's reputation.
Have you considered that it is not we who are on trial, but God?
Look what the cat dragged in.
-
telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
There can be no good without evil
Koan wrote: How do you judge evil?
...Wow! Have you been canonized yet?
:wah: Sorry for the ambiguity! "saint" is a generic term for "saved person." I don't think of sainthood as something men can confer or deny, like membership in a snooty, private club. I couldn't care less for that kind of sainthood. In fact, I'm bucking for anathema.
I don't judge evil, because how can I who am evil, or any mere human being judge evil? I trust Scripture on that.
...Wow! Have you been canonized yet?
:wah: Sorry for the ambiguity! "saint" is a generic term for "saved person." I don't think of sainthood as something men can confer or deny, like membership in a snooty, private club. I couldn't care less for that kind of sainthood. In fact, I'm bucking for anathema.
I don't judge evil, because how can I who am evil, or any mere human being judge evil? I trust Scripture on that.
Look what the cat dragged in.
There can be no good without evil
telaquapacky wrote: :wah: Sorry for the ambiguity! "saint" is a generic term for "saved person." I don't think of sainthood as something men can confer or deny, like membership in a snooty, private club. I couldn't care less for that kind of sainthood. In fact, I'm bucking for anathema.
I don't judge evil, because how can I who am evil, or any mere human being judge evil? I trust Scripture on that.
Thanks for the clarification. I figured you would get the humour of that one.
I love the question about God being on trial. I think that is a wonderfully simple way of expressing a possible reason for existence...which is mostly the reason for starting this thread.
I think God defines itself through our lives and our lessons. Like a comment I made on another thread about being a toenail on God's body. We are not disgusting because we are merely 'toenails' we are an intregal part of that body and an infection anywhere on that body can jeoprodize the health of the entire body...hence a reason to offer enlightenment to suffering souls.
On the other hand, a body wants to heal itself and becomes a stronger organism after fighting off every infection. In fact, lives are saved now by immunization which, effectively, injects a virus or infection in order to develop a resistance to it and make the body immune in the future.
Maybe every human life is like an immunization shot to God's 'body' and our purpose through our struggle with good and evil is constantly strengthening the existence of God.
:yh_think
I don't judge evil, because how can I who am evil, or any mere human being judge evil? I trust Scripture on that.
Thanks for the clarification. I figured you would get the humour of that one.
I love the question about God being on trial. I think that is a wonderfully simple way of expressing a possible reason for existence...which is mostly the reason for starting this thread.
I think God defines itself through our lives and our lessons. Like a comment I made on another thread about being a toenail on God's body. We are not disgusting because we are merely 'toenails' we are an intregal part of that body and an infection anywhere on that body can jeoprodize the health of the entire body...hence a reason to offer enlightenment to suffering souls.
On the other hand, a body wants to heal itself and becomes a stronger organism after fighting off every infection. In fact, lives are saved now by immunization which, effectively, injects a virus or infection in order to develop a resistance to it and make the body immune in the future.
Maybe every human life is like an immunization shot to God's 'body' and our purpose through our struggle with good and evil is constantly strengthening the existence of God.
:yh_think
There can be no good without evil
Ok I just heard you guys bickering all the way in Wisconsin. Jk! Truth is I have been stuck in a life of debate. I did a search on google for, can you know good without evil? You were 2nd!
I work at a healthfood store with Menonite Christians and have been searching for truth and faith for about 2 years now. Though I am a person that over thinks everything and for every question awnsered comes another contradicting thought. I am on the verge of becoming a christian, BUT! it is only because of there values and structure on life. Honest, caring, hard working people. I also believe creation except the bible does have some contradictory/Idiotic/delusional things in it.
#1. How can heaven be 100% good? Come on. Common sence tells you that you could not feel hot without knowing cold! same for good and evil. You could throw the idea of my earthly perception at this but the fact is that this world is all we know.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
I have more but this should get the ball rolling.
This is my first forum and my first thread response so take it easy on me
And help or info would be greatly appreciated.
Feel free to ridicule!
Koan nice on the theory of God's immunization shot. Love it! Totally could all just be free radicals and antioxidents.
I work at a healthfood store with Menonite Christians and have been searching for truth and faith for about 2 years now. Though I am a person that over thinks everything and for every question awnsered comes another contradicting thought. I am on the verge of becoming a christian, BUT! it is only because of there values and structure on life. Honest, caring, hard working people. I also believe creation except the bible does have some contradictory/Idiotic/delusional things in it.
#1. How can heaven be 100% good? Come on. Common sence tells you that you could not feel hot without knowing cold! same for good and evil. You could throw the idea of my earthly perception at this but the fact is that this world is all we know.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
I have more but this should get the ball rolling.
This is my first forum and my first thread response so take it easy on me
And help or info would be greatly appreciated.
Feel free to ridicule!
Koan nice on the theory of God's immunization shot. Love it! Totally could all just be free radicals and antioxidents.
-
AnunnakiElder
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:38 pm
There can be no good without evil
#1. How can heaven be 100% good? Come on. Common sence tells you that you could not feel hot without knowing cold! same for good and evil. You could throw the idea of my earthly perception at this but the fact is that this world is all we know.
Heaven is at the 9th gate, the galazy Illyuwn , the nineteeth galaxy , also called The Great Galaxy , known as the place '' On High '' where the etheric records called '' AKASHA '' are kept. It isn't good or evil, good and evil are illusion.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
No, you came from evolution, divine intelligence. Once upon a time it was thought that everything that was known to exist began with the hydrogen atom and was labeled H1 which represented 1 hydrogen atom. There are approximately 118 elements listed as of today. I remember when I was in high school they only new about 99. As we expand in knowledge and technology we have learn more about the magnitude of the Almighty creation. It was thought that H1 was the first point of existence but it wasn't, there was another form of existence but it existed on the other side of H1 in the form of ether. This was unknown then and is now known as nothing. However on the other side of H1 going forward is called something. The number beside the symbol represents the amount and weight of the elements. It's the SUM of a thing, it sums up to a thing, something. Now that you know how the word something came into existence lets focus on where something came from. Answer: Nothing. No-thing. It doesn't mean nothing is non existence it just means that it wasn't known yet and couldn't be calculated so it didn't get a Number and was referred to as nothing or No-thing, NO NUMBER. Hold on we are now entering the spiritual planes of existence from a scientific point of view where it can not be debated because it's based on facts not belief. On the other side of H1 the hydrogen atom going back is the Original or primary creation, primaries, from primus, first. Before the lightest atom, hydrogen, energies existed , as a form of gases, nine levels of them from Quarks to Bi-aps to Zedes/Zeles, referred to as sub-atomic energy, before the weight or sum of any weight registering as nothingness, yet existing being lighter than the first form of existence hydrogen. These Gases are how we exist in our spiritual form. The heavenly father is all powerful 9 ether being, The Most Potent Gas in the Universe. The lesser beings are 6 ether and after that is Ghost, Death. The darker your skin and the tighter your hair, is a manifestation of 9 ether being.
Heaven is at the 9th gate, the galazy Illyuwn , the nineteeth galaxy , also called The Great Galaxy , known as the place '' On High '' where the etheric records called '' AKASHA '' are kept. It isn't good or evil, good and evil are illusion.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
No, you came from evolution, divine intelligence. Once upon a time it was thought that everything that was known to exist began with the hydrogen atom and was labeled H1 which represented 1 hydrogen atom. There are approximately 118 elements listed as of today. I remember when I was in high school they only new about 99. As we expand in knowledge and technology we have learn more about the magnitude of the Almighty creation. It was thought that H1 was the first point of existence but it wasn't, there was another form of existence but it existed on the other side of H1 in the form of ether. This was unknown then and is now known as nothing. However on the other side of H1 going forward is called something. The number beside the symbol represents the amount and weight of the elements. It's the SUM of a thing, it sums up to a thing, something. Now that you know how the word something came into existence lets focus on where something came from. Answer: Nothing. No-thing. It doesn't mean nothing is non existence it just means that it wasn't known yet and couldn't be calculated so it didn't get a Number and was referred to as nothing or No-thing, NO NUMBER. Hold on we are now entering the spiritual planes of existence from a scientific point of view where it can not be debated because it's based on facts not belief. On the other side of H1 the hydrogen atom going back is the Original or primary creation, primaries, from primus, first. Before the lightest atom, hydrogen, energies existed , as a form of gases, nine levels of them from Quarks to Bi-aps to Zedes/Zeles, referred to as sub-atomic energy, before the weight or sum of any weight registering as nothingness, yet existing being lighter than the first form of existence hydrogen. These Gases are how we exist in our spiritual form. The heavenly father is all powerful 9 ether being, The Most Potent Gas in the Universe. The lesser beings are 6 ether and after that is Ghost, Death. The darker your skin and the tighter your hair, is a manifestation of 9 ether being.
There can be no good without evil
mrbaker;1380877 wrote: Ok I just heard you guys bickering all the way in Wisconsin. Jk! Truth is I have been stuck in a life of debate. I did a search on google for, can you know good without evil? You were 2nd!
I work at a healthfood store with Menonite Christians and have been searching for truth and faith for about 2 years now. Though I am a person that over thinks everything and for every question awnsered comes another contradicting thought. I am on the verge of becoming a christian, BUT! it is only because of there values and structure on life. Honest, caring, hard working people. I also believe creation except the bible does have some contradictory/Idiotic/delusional things in it.
#1. How can heaven be 100% good? Come on. Common sence tells you that you could not feel hot without knowing cold! same for good and evil. You could throw the idea of my earthly perception at this but the fact is that this world is all we know.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
I have more but this should get the ball rolling.
This is my first forum and my first thread response so take it easy on me
And help or info would be greatly appreciated.
Feel free to ridicule!
Koan nice on the theory of God's immunization shot. Love it! Totally could all just be free radicals and antioxidents.
Welcome to FG! Very weird to see a thread from so long ago suddenly appear again.
I work at a healthfood store with Menonite Christians and have been searching for truth and faith for about 2 years now. Though I am a person that over thinks everything and for every question awnsered comes another contradicting thought. I am on the verge of becoming a christian, BUT! it is only because of there values and structure on life. Honest, caring, hard working people. I also believe creation except the bible does have some contradictory/Idiotic/delusional things in it.
#1. How can heaven be 100% good? Come on. Common sence tells you that you could not feel hot without knowing cold! same for good and evil. You could throw the idea of my earthly perception at this but the fact is that this world is all we know.
#2. We come out of nothingness, If we get knocked out we experience nothingness. but we die and go to heaven? I happen to love animals especially dogs. How are we better? They go into nothingness? Come on!! Thats just pure idiocy.
I have more but this should get the ball rolling.
This is my first forum and my first thread response so take it easy on me
And help or info would be greatly appreciated.
Feel free to ridicule!
Koan nice on the theory of God's immunization shot. Love it! Totally could all just be free radicals and antioxidents.
Welcome to FG! Very weird to see a thread from so long ago suddenly appear again.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
There can be no good without evil
Hello Mr Baker.
Sometimes I wonder how God can exist; sometimes I wonder how He cannot exist. I have little time for Creationists and Literalists, who I think are massively missing the point, but I think Christian values as generally understood are good values, and try (but certainly don't always succeed!) to live by them. The rest is up to God. If He's there.
Sometimes I wonder how God can exist; sometimes I wonder how He cannot exist. I have little time for Creationists and Literalists, who I think are massively missing the point, but I think Christian values as generally understood are good values, and try (but certainly don't always succeed!) to live by them. The rest is up to God. If He's there.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."