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AnneBoleyn;1489036 wrote: Good housing, good food, good medical care & a vacation every now & then. Oh, & free cable.Ah, I see. I'd say we're aren't deserving of them as much as we like to provide them for one another by using a monetary system to facilitate it for the good of the whole. Welfare is, of course, and alternative method, of which I have no problem with.

It seems to me that Christianity was founded as "People of the way". That does not mean belief but it points towards the positive things we need to do to improve life on this earth. Way indicates action.

Ted;1489137 wrote: It seems to me that Christianity was founded as "People of the way". That does not mean belief but it points towards the positive things we need to do to improve life on this earth. Way indicates action.


It was all by God so that He could communicate His plan of salvation to man. It came out of Judaism which was founded by the same God.

xfrodobagginsx;1489299 wrote: It was all by God so that He could communicate His plan of salvation to man. It came out of Judaism which was founded by the same God.
It was by Man so that they might communicate their power of control over the gullible. Their plan of Greed over Man. It came out of Greed & was founded by the same Greed.

Interesting how "Greed" & "God" sound so similar & seem to be interchangeable. It almost seems as if one word has its origins in the other.

FourPart;1489306 wrote: It was by Man so that they might communicate their power of control over the gullible. Their plan of Greed over Man. It came out of Greed & was founded by the same Greed.

Interesting how "Greed" & "God" sound so similar & seem to be interchangeable. It almost seems as if one word has its origins in the other.


And the gullible are still carrying tons of money to the greedy liars. It'll probably be a long time yet for us to leave the dark ages.

FourPart;1489306 wrote: It was by Man so that they might communicate their power of control over the gullible. Their plan of Greed over Man. It came out of Greed & was founded by the same Greed.

Interesting how "Greed" & "God" sound so similar & seem to be interchangeable. It almost seems as if one word has its origins in the other.


You've got it backward. They are trying to get rid of God so that they can exert power and control over the gullible. You are going down the wrong road. The evidence supports Christianity.

xfrodobagginsx;1489471 wrote: You've got it backward. They are trying to get rid of God so that they can exert power and control over the gullible. You are going down the wrong road. The evidence supports Christianity.


That is not possible. God doesn't exist, therefore we can't get rid of him. If he did exist then it would be a good idea to get rid of the bastard. You may tell him that next time he speaks to you. On second thought, he probably reads all posts on all forums and got the message.

First of all I accept the reality of God. I did not say "exists" Secondly I do not for one moment think that God plans our daily moves or anything else.. God does not interfere in the daily events of life. God does not send hurricanes, or earthquakes, or the terrible diseases that are part of our environment. I found the cry that Katrina was created because America had sinned. What total nonsense.

Ted;1489687 wrote: First of all I accept the reality of God. I did not say "exists" Secondly I do not for one moment think that God plans our daily moves or anything else.. God does not interfere in the daily events of life. God does not send hurricanes, or earthquakes, or the terrible diseases that are part of our environment. I found the cry that Katrina was created because America had sinned. What total nonsense.


I am referring mainly to the god in the old and new testaments. Whether there is a loving god elsewhere apart from that I don't know.

Between the OT and the NT the concept of God changed. We do see in Jesus of Nazareth a manifestation of God. In the OT God is a war god and others. In the NT God is seen as the purveyor of love.

Just where is this "Kingdom of God" supposed to be?

Ted;1489972 wrote: Just where is this "Kingdom of God" supposed to be?


Nowhere and everywhere. But why call it a kingdom? Shouldn't it be a goddom?

Fuzzy;1490004 wrote: Nowhere and everywhere. But why call it a kingdom? Shouldn't it be a goddom?
Sounds like a combination of Sodom & Gomorrah.

Ted;1489972 wrote: Just where is this "Kingdom of God" supposed to be?


It's going to be on this earth when Jesus Christ returns.

xfrodobagginsx;1490249 wrote: It's going to be on this earth when Jesus Christ returns.
So, in other words, it doesn't exist.

xfrodobagginsx;1490249 wrote: It's going to be on this earth when Jesus Christ returns.


It's been about 2000 years already. Talking about slow. I've got a feeling Jesus never actually lived.

It's just that "Going to be" is future tense. Therefore, seeing as he hasn't returned yet, Heaven doesn't yet exist. Therefore there is no such thing as the Kingdom of Heaven, and without a Kingdom there cannot be a King, and as God is said to be the King of the Kingdom of Heaven, there can be no God.

FourPart;1490285 wrote: there can be no God.


Come on, there must be a god. Sillions of people can't be wrong. Can they???

Fuzzy;1490304 wrote: Come on, there must be a god. Sillions of people can't be wrong. Can they???


It's not about what people think, the evidence backs up the fact that there is a God.

xfrodobagginsx;1490323 wrote: It's not about what people think, the evidence backs up the fact that there is a God.
What evidence?

You claim the existence of God as a fact. It is not. It is a faith-based hypothesis. The only 'evidence' is the existence of a person's imagination.

xfrodobagginsx;1490323 wrote: It's not about what people think, the evidence backs up the fact that there is a God.


evidence

ˈɛvɪd(ə)ns/Submit

noun

1.

the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

The strongest type of evidence is that which provides direct proof of the truth of an assertion. Since there can be no proof of a god, your so called evidence is extremely week. I guess you went ahead and substituted the word faith with the word evidence to make a stronger point.

Yep and the EVIDENCE backs up the Bible and Christianity.

xfrodobagginsx;1490499 wrote: Yep and the EVIDENCE backs up the Bible and Christianity.


So much for your fabricated evidence, xfro.

And now for the real story.



I'm not sure why I can't post videos anymore. Emoticons are not working either.

xfrodobagginsx;1490499 wrote: Yep and the EVIDENCE backs up the Bible and Christianity.


Uh-Huh? What evidence? We've been through this before. Apart from folklore there is no hard evidence that Jesus ever even existed. There is no evidence of a census, or his crucifixion, or anything in between. The Bible cannot be cited as evidence of itself. That's like using "The Sorceror's Stone" as evidence that Harry Potter is a real person.

xfrodobagginsx;1490499 wrote: Yep and the EVIDENCE backs up the Bible and Christianity.


Alright xfro, you may be right, I doubt it , but putting that aside, what would be the advantage of going to heaven as opposed to where we might be really going and how many testimonials have you received from dead corpses having been allocated a cloud with a harp thrown in for no extra charge?

There's no evidence to even prove the existence of Jesus. There is evidence that Christianity exists. Of course it does. You don't need a story book to tell you that much. After all, Jedi is officially a Religion as well.

I feel sorry for you to fall the whole "Horus predates Christ and the Bible is fake" routine. The fact is if you read the ACTUAL writings about Horus, they do NOT match the Biblical accounts. You have been tricked by a second hand source. Read the actual writings.

EXPOSING THE MYTH OF HORUS

From KingDavid8.com

Are there ACTUAL parallels between the Jesus and Horus stories?

Hardly. For those unfamiliar with the Horus story, Horus is a character in Egyptian mythology, the son of the gods Isis and Osiris. There actually appear to be multiple dieties named 'Horus', but the one who is the son of Isis and Osiris is the one the critics claim influenced the Jesus story. For a quick and unbiased debunking of this story, go to any search engine and find a site on Egyptian mythology and read the Horus story for yourself (I've provided some links at the bottom of the page), or check the mythology section at your local library (go ahead, I dare you!). Acharya S's book "The Christ Conspiracy" is the apparent source of this list, but the author provides evidentiarly footnotes for only five of the claims, and those footnotes frequently disagree with her own claims!

By the way, I had a discussion about this list with Acharya S, the author of the book "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". To view a text of our discussion, go to this site.

Here are the claims of parallels between Jesus and Horus, with my responses:

1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:

Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.

Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.

"Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri"

Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.

Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east

There were no “three wise men at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old).

Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says "the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which there are three stars in a row making up the belt of Orion. However, there is no evidence that these three stars were called the "Three Kings" prior to Jesus' time, nor even prior to the 19th century, for that matter.

And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the three stars in Orion's belt attended Horus' birth in any way.

2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb and the Hebrew name “Joseph, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.

3) He was of royal descent.

This one’s true! But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.

4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.

5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.

Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer in the story.

6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup or “Aan.

7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus).

8) Horus walked on water.

No, he did not.

9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

Horus was never referred to as “Iusa (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child.

10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa.

11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

No, he was not.

12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.

13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

The only titles Horus is given are “Great God, “Chief of the Powers, “Master of Heaven, and “Avenger of His Father. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.

14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.

He was never referred to as “the fisher, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a lamb or lion.

15) He came to fulfill the Law.

There was no “law he was supposed to fulfill.

16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."

He was never referred to by either of these titles. "Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. It wasn't a title.

17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.

Links:

Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus

Egyptian Mythology: Horus

The Eye Of Horus

Horus: He Who Is Above

Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris

Egyptian Book of the Dead

xfrodobagginsx;1490706 wrote: I feel sorry for you to fall the whole "Horus predates Christ and the Bible is fake" routine. The fact is if you read the ACTUAL writings about Horus, they do NOT match the Biblical accounts. You have been tricked by a second hand source. Read the actual writings.

EXPOSING THE MYTH OF HORUS

From KingDavid8.com

Are there ACTUAL parallels between the Jesus and Horus stories?

Hardly. For those unfamiliar with the Horus story, Horus is a character in Egyptian mythology, the son of the gods Isis and Osiris. There actually appear to be multiple dieties named 'Horus', but the one who is the son of Isis and Osiris is the one the critics claim influenced the Jesus story. For a quick and unbiased debunking of this story, go to any search engine and find a site on Egyptian mythology and read the Horus story for yourself (I've provided some links at the bottom of the page), or check the mythology section at your local library (go ahead, I dare you!). Acharya S's book "The Christ Conspiracy" is the apparent source of this list, but the author provides evidentiarly footnotes for only five of the claims, and those footnotes frequently disagree with her own claims!

By the way, I had a discussion about this list with Acharya S, the author of the book "The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold". To view a text of our discussion, go to this site.

Here are the claims of parallels between Jesus and Horus, with my responses:

1) Horus was born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men.

Let’s take this one apart and deal with each separate issue:

Horus’ mother was not a virgin. She was married to Osiris, and there is no reason to suppose she was abstinent after marriage. Horus was, per the story, miraculously conceived. Seth had killed and dismembered Osiris, then Isis put her husband's dead body back together and had intercourse with it. In some versions, she used a hand-made phallus since she wasn't able to find that part of her husband. So while it was a miraculous conception, it was not a virgin birth.

Horus was given three different birthdates in mythology, one of which does correspond to December 25th. But since Jesus wasn't, per the evidence, born on 12/25, this isn't a parallel.

"Meri" (technically "Mr-ee") is the egyptian word for "beloved" and was apparently applied to Isis prior to Jesus' time, as a title, not as part of her name. But since there were probably thousands of women between Horus' time and Jesus' with a name or title that was a variation on "Mary", there's no real reason to suppose that Jesus' mother was named after Isis in particular. Even if, hypothetically, the Gospel authors themselves fabricated Jesus' mother and decided to name her "Mary", it's far more likely that they named her after other women from around their time named "Mary" than it is that they named her after "Isis-Meri"

Horus was born in a swamp, not a cave/manger. Acharya's footnotes for this point only make the claim that Jesus was born in a cave, and say nothing about Horus being born in one.

Horus' birth was not announced by a star in the east

There were no “three wise men at Horus’ birth, or at Jesus’ for that matter (the Bible never gives the number of wise men, and they showed up at Jesus’ home, not at the manger, probably when Jesus was a year or two old).

Acharya's source for the last two claims appears to be Massey, who says "the Star in the East that arose to announce the birth of the babe (Jesus) was Orion, which is therefore called the star of Horus. That was once the star of the three kings; for the 'three kings' is still a name of three stars in Orion's belt . . . " Massey's apparently getting mixed up, and then the critics are misinterpreting it. Orion is not a star, but a constellation, of which there are three stars in a row making up the belt of Orion. However, there is no evidence that these three stars were called the "Three Kings" prior to Jesus' time, nor even prior to the 19th century, for that matter.

And even if there is a specific star called 'the star of Horus', there's no legend stating that it announced Horus' birth (as the critics are claiming) or that the three stars in Orion's belt attended Horus' birth in any way.

2) His earthly father was named "Seb" ("Joseph").

First of all, there is no parallel between the Egyptian name “Seb and the Hebrew name “Joseph, other than the fact that they’re common names. Also, Seb was Osiris’ father, not Horus’.

3) He was of royal descent.

This one’s true! But it's not really a comparison to Jesus. When followers speak of Jesus being of 'royal descent', they usually mean His being a descendent of King David, an earthly king. Horus was, according to the myth, descended from heavenly royalty (as Jesus was), being the son of the main god.

4) At age 12, he was a child teacher in the Temple, and at 30, he was baptized, having disappeared for 18 years.

He never taught in any temple and was never baptized. Also, Jesus didn't 'disappear' in the years between His teaching in the temple and baptism. He worked humbly as a carpenter.

5) Horus was baptized in the river Eridanus or Iarutana (Jordan) by "Anup the Baptizer" ("John the Baptist"), who was decapitated.

Again, Horus was never baptized. There is no “Anup the Baptizer in the story.

6) He had 12 disciples, two of whom were his "witnesses" and were named "Anup" and "Aan" (the two "Johns").

Horus had four disciples (called ‘Heru-Shemsu’). There’s another reference to sixteen followers, and a group of followers called ‘mesnui’ (blacksmiths) who join Horus in battle, but are never numbered. But there’s no reference to twelve followers or any of them being named “Anup or “Aan.

7) He performed miracles, exorcised demons and raised El-Azarus ("El-Osiris"), from the dead.

He did perform miracles, but he never exorcised demons or raised his father from the dead. Also, Osiris is never referred to as ‘El-Azarus’ or ‘El-Osiris’ (clearly an attempt to make his name more closely resemble the Bible’s “Lazarus).

8) Horus walked on water.

No, he did not.

9) His personal epithet was "Iusa," the "ever-becoming son" of "Ptah," the "Father." He was thus called "Holy Child."

Horus was never referred to as “Iusa (nor was anyone in Egyptian history - the word does not exist) or “Holy Child.

10) He delivered a "Sermon on the Mount" and his followers recounted the "Sayings of Iusa."

Horus never delivered such a sermon, and, as pointed out above, he was never referred to as “Iusa.

11) Horus was transfigured on the Mount.

No, he was not.

12) He was crucified between two thieves, buried for three days in a tomb, and resurrected.

Horus was never crucified. There’s an unofficial story in which he dies and is cast in pieces into the water, then later fished out by a crocodile at Isis’ request. This unofficial story is the only one in which he dies at all.

13) He was also the "Way, the Truth, the Light," "Messiah," "God’s Anointed Son," the "Son of Man," the "Good Shepherd," the "Lamb of God," the "Word made flesh," the "Word of Truth," etc.

The only titles Horus is given are “Great God, “Chief of the Powers, “Master of Heaven, and “Avenger of His Father. None of the above titles are in any Egyptian mythology.

14) He was "the Fisher" and was associated with the Fish ("Ichthys"), Lamb and Lion.

He was never referred to as “the fisher, and there are no lamb or lion in any of the stories. Acharya S.'s footnotes on this claim only show an association with fish (which is that Horus WAS a fish, unlike Jesus), with no evidence of his being called 'the fisher' or having any association with a lamb or lion.

15) He came to fulfill the Law.

There was no “law he was supposed to fulfill.

16) Horus was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One."

He was never referred to by either of these titles. "Krst", in Egyptian, means "burial", by the way. It wasn't a title.

17) Like Jesus, "Horus was supposed to reign one thousand years."

No mention of this in Egyptian mythology.

Links:

Encyclopedia Mythica: Horus

Egyptian Mythology: Horus

The Eye Of Horus

Horus: He Who Is Above

Tektonics: Horus, Isis, Osiris

Egyptian Book of the Dead


It doesn't matter which story you want to believe. All of these ancient invented stories are just fairy stories. All of you religious freaks are sticking to your beliefs simply because you are terrified of dying and that there may be no after life.

It would be nice to go to 'Heaven' after we kick the bucket, but it's just wishful thinking.

Your very first paragraph gives a parallel between Horus & Jesus. They are both mythology. The only verification of the existence of the character from the story book is the story book itself. It's not different from the Harry Potter stories being evidence to the existence of Harry Potter. In fact, there is even more evidence to the existence of Harry Potter than that of Jesus as there are multiple Harry Potter books to that effect to cross reference from. With Jesus you just have the one book. Everything else only refers back to that original source and as such are not individual testimonies.

I'm just about finished reading a book titles "Did Jesus Exist" by historian and scholar Bart D Ehrman . He reviews the historical method of proving things. It is a different process then strictly scientific. A very interesting book with all the pros and cons dealt with. A worthwhile read. As for the existence of God there is no proof except for the individual. God is an experiential reality. I know what I have or have not experienced but will not waste my time with so called proofs.

I have no problem with "God" as an experiential reality, as it is an abstract thing, rather than a physical reality, just as with any type of emotion. An appreciation of Art or Music is an experiential reality, yet while something may hold one person enamoured, another may find the same thing blood curdling, while it may leave another totally cold. However, I don't hold any God to be any more than just that. It's nothing but a name for a state of mind.

Ted;1490811 wrote: I'm just about finished reading a book titles "Did Jesus Exist" by historian and scholar Bart D Ehrman . He reviews the historical method of proving things. It is a different process then strictly scientific. A very interesting book with all the pros and cons dealt with. A worthwhile read. As for the existence of God there is no proof except for the individual. God is an experiential reality. I know what I have or have not experienced but will not waste my time with so called proofs.


I'd love to read that book, but I 'll wait until it's available to borrow from the online library.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

The whole of monotheism is split between fundamentalists pushing Almighty God down the throats of ungrateful sinners and the other Jews, Muslims, Christians and Mormons who spend a lifetime living out the consequences of faith. In my opinion it's time we had two different words for the two different groups because they certainly don't have anything at all in common, least of all their religion.

Elijah12;1491195 wrote: The whole of monotheism is split between fundamentalists pushing Almighty God down the throats of ungrateful sinners and the other Jews, Muslims, Christians and Mormons who spend a lifetime living out the consequences of faith. In my opinion it's time we had two different words for the two different groups because they certainly don't have anything at all in common, least of all their religion.
How about Followers & Controllers. The Followers live their lives according to way the teachings of their Religion dictates. The Controllers tell everyone what they believe their Religion dictates, and therefore believe that everyone else should follow their dictate accordingly.

The early Christian faith (trust) in God was about doing not believing in. It was about following the way not about right belief. Spong, Ehrman, Diana Buitledr Bass

Ted;1491236 wrote: The early Christian faith (trust) in God was about doing not believing in. It was about following the way not about right belief. Spong, Ehrman, Diana Buitledr Bass


The Jews you are talking about were still under the law. They had to believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah to be saved.

Not so. The first Christians were of course converted Jews and Gentile God fearers. The first 300-400 years were about doing or following the way. The Belief in Jesus as the Messiah was a minor thought at that time. It only became about belief in certain theological statements about Jesus after 300-400. Bart Ehrman, Matthew Fox, and a host of others. The belief in statements were a later addition to Christianity as were many other things. The expected Messiah was to be a political and military leader who was to save the Jews from their oppressors the Romans.

Please take the time to read this first post and vote in the poll if you haven't yet.

That prayer is based on ancient conceptualization. The times and our conceptualization ability is much different today. With all due respect it smacks of fundamentalism for which I have no respect.

In essence it's moral bribery. The very reason given to say it is of a selfish nature - ie, "If I do this, then I get something out of it", rather than praying for somebody else with no thought of your own reward, imaginary or otherwise. It has a lot to learn from JFK - "Ask not what your country can do for you. Think what you can do for your country". Prayer, especially of that nature, is a sickening fraud.

If you don't think like I do you're gonna burn baby. Religion based on fear is sick and disgusting.

Please pray for America

xfrodobagginsx;1491770 wrote: Please pray for America
Now you're getting the idea.

If Trump gets in America will need lots of prayers.

There are enough religious Americans. Let them pray for America.

Did you hear about the priest who said: "Don't pray for water, dam it.":wah:

BTW, I still haven't prayed the prayer at the bottom this post to god. I'm not even thinking about praying for anything really.

I'm just wondering what makes you think praying will make a difference to where I'm going.

Ted;1491774 wrote: If Trump gets in America will need lots of prayers.


I don't trust Trump. Ted Cruz is a much better choice.

I think it depends on what we are praying for. I don't pray that so and so gets better etc. With my very dubious eyesight my only prayer is for the courage to face what lies ahead. That is enough.

There are a lot of folks who seem to trust Trump. God help America if he actually becomes president.

Ted;1491890 wrote: There are a lot of folks who seem to trust Trump. God help America if he actually becomes president.


Also the rest of the world.:-3