Wife beaters who say sorry to go free

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:08 am

i was a trial court law librarian. this was pre-oj. pre awareness. but i instituted a program with the DA. most women were too afraid to go to court and testify against their abusers. so i took them to court and held their hand on my own time, for gratis. it's the best, most useful thing i ever did in my life.

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:11 am

You are so good LC. And the point about the women being afraid back then, it was so much worse. No place for them to go to if they left, afraid of retribution, afraid a restraining order would not be enough, or work too late to safe them. You are a good woman to have helped them testify, it is a hard thing for them to do.

*it made me think of poor Mink's neighbor, I hope she can be free one day*

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:11 am

Diuretic wrote: LC - sampling problem there. One person's experience, although valid doesn't generalise across a population, that was in relation to your comments regarding dirtbags. I'm not commenting about your individual, personal experience, that would be rude and churlish.i honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:18 am

Thats also why i joined the Met i was just gutted that the bastard died before he could see me in uniform.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:21 am

Diuretic wrote: Okay, what you've experienced as a police officer is limited by the fact is that only one person experienced it. When it comes to social/legal policy a small number of experiences aren't going to change public policy.i am still not sure what you mean, but i am not just one person who experienced it. domestic violence is a huge issue. our laws have changed, we can arrest without a person pressing charges if we see any evidence of abuse. i really do not know what you are saying about public policy. maybe i am dense.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:22 am

Diuretic wrote: You're in the Met?

Was..left in 98 .

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:25 am

Diuretic wrote: chonisgirl, a woman who has been abused by her husband/partner should not rely solely on the police for protection. The police are constrained by the criminal law and the criminal justice system in ways that lawyers, and other para-legal people, are not. This should always be dealt with in a multi-disciplinary approach. The police can be very helpful but they are limited by the criminal law. Lawyers and other groups can help in addition to the police.
Diuretic, when it is your life on the line, and your children-what do you do?

Since I faced that issue once, my only recourse was to pack up 4 children, take my car and drive somewhere safe-and we slept in the car for the night until I found housing. If you have no one to help you, some one should. There are places to go to now, but it is on a space available basis. What should the person do, wait until there is a vacancy, or will they survive that long until there is one? That is the cold, hard facts.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 5:43 am

Diuretic wrote: Interesting to work there I would think.

You could say that ..training at Hendon was an experiance . I have to be honest though i was'nt very good i only lasted 3 1/2 years and i was quite young , but an experiance it was and one that i will never forget.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:03 am

Here in Ohio, if the cops see evidence of domestic violence, they can arrest and press charges. They seldom do and their excuse is that the woman will just go back. The ones that do arrest and press charges, are just as discouraged as I am that they go through the court system only to get a slap on the wrist.

As far as preventing domestic violence, great concept but is it workable? Where do we start? If the courts would send out a stronger message, that may be a good start.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:17 am

I can only speak for the UK, but here prision is a joke my ex had been in prison before i met him so the threat of jail time never scared him .To give a guy a warning for beating the living daylight's out of a woman (ok i know it happen's to men to) is just inadequate there has to be a deterrent and until there is a deterrent and attitude's change the cycle will carry on.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:28 am

Also, what message does this send out - (i don't have a link but will try to find one) at the beginning of the week it was reported that 40 case's of rape had been dealt with by way of a caution ... it's scandalous if it is true.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:49 pm

What's annoys about this is that it implies that beating up your wife is somehow not as serious as attacking a complete stranger-almost harking back to the days when people would turn a blind eye to domestic violence rather than interfere between husband and wife as if the man had a right to punish his women if she annoys him.

If you hospitalise a stranger or attack someone when drunk no one would countenance the attacker getting off by saying sorry. Why should being married make it all right?

It's not just those you would think of as scumbags that do this it's a crime all sectors of society commit.

http://www.monitoring-group.co.uk/Seeki ... rch_dv.htm

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:14 pm

And this is just in the UK.

Over the last decade, there has been a general slap down on all the attempts of the previous decades where efforts were made on behalf of the common man and woman to improve their lot, where spiritual advancements were made.

This is almost Victoriana in disguise. We are being bombarded with new laws and we are being taxed to oblivion. But the police are too busy writing reports. The judges are too busy countering the Government as if they are an adversary. The working man is too poor to take time off to protest. And, in the meantime, the real villains, the thiefs, the burglars, the murderers, the gangs, the rapists, and even the child molesters, are getting a free ticket to ride their trains.

Thankfully, I am surrounded by people with good hearts and good intentions. Not just here at the forum. The kids above me show that life goes on as normal. Above me is a normal family (except that they have just a little more than 1.6 kids, both boys). Above my neighbour live an elderly couple who are lucky enough to have a decent pension. I saw a picture of the lady when they got married - what a beauty, I can understand why they eloped. But they are bored with cruises and now mostly just travel when they want to see their daughter and family in France. They keep a beautiful garden and grow good edible crops (the England I remember).

Opposite and above me are a business couple who have just had their first boy. And dead opposite is a young attractive lass who's boyfriend is constantly in trouble. Life goes on regardless of anything.

Seems to me that if anything is to change, it's up to individuals to get together and make them change. Forget the politicians, they're only interested in looking good and getting paid for it. They're not a lot different to glamour models really, just less intelligent.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:12 am

sixyearsleft wrote: not everyrthing is black and white minks,

the whole point is to cut down the number of victims,

every case should be judged seperetly on its own merits,

some ppl really do need help, including the victims.

I think your right. Assume the plea of remorse is genuine and a wrong can be righted and willing participants can come away with a healthy understanding of the origins of the anger, isnt that in the best interest of the family ? I wouldnt be opposed to jail time and extreme counseling as it is a nasty crime. But overall if the goal is to stop the behavior and keep the family healthy then I think all options should be considered.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Sat Apr 15, 2006 9:40 am

Nomad wrote: I think your right. Assume the plea of remorse is genuine and a wrong can be righted and willing participants can come away with a healthy understanding of the origins of the anger, isnt that in the best interest of the family ? I wouldnt be opposed to jail time and extreme counseling as it is a nasty crime. But overall if the goal is to stop the behavior and keep the family healthy then I think all options should be considered.

What if the woman want's the guy to go to prison, do we ignore what she want's just in case we hurt the guy's feeling's.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:28 pm

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: What if the woman want's the guy to go to prison, do we ignore what she want's just in case we hurt the guy's feeling's.

No. Let him go. I dont feel sorry for a wife beater. Im just saying if the guy is willing to get help and hes genuine and sincerely remorseful and its in the best interest of the whole family to stay together then proceed.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:47 pm

Nomad wrote: No. Let him go. I dont feel sorry for a wife beater. Im just saying if the guy is willing to get help and hes genuine and sincerely remorseful and its in the best interest of the whole family to stay together then proceed.
This is a Utopia you talk about, Nomad. I have dealt with SO many abusers and they can fool the best into thinking they are really sorry. I haven't come across one of hundreds yet who don't revert back to abusiveness. Ever.

I suppose there has to be the uncommon, one in a million who really does feel remorse, but that does not and can never excuse him OR her raising their hand to their significant other. I'd sure like to meet one, though. Restore my faith just a little.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:50 pm

i agree with BR...once a thug, always a thug. they only go to anger management classes to reduce their jail time. it's a complete f**king BS and mutual masturbation session.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:51 pm

lady cop wrote: i agree with BR...once a thug, always a thug. they only go to anger management classes to reduce their jail time. it's a complete f**king BS and mutual masturbation session.

I guess my thinking is that if I can quit drinking or someone else can get off heroin that anything is possible. I used to be a very angry person. Ive never laid a hand on a woman but I was angry a lot. I found a way to change that, to relieve myself of hostility. So Im living proof people can change and there were many who didnt think that was possible. Im not sticking up for wife beaters Im just optimistic about the power of personal growth if so desired.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:27 pm

Nomad wrote: I guess my thinking is that if I can quit drinking or someone else can get off heroin that anything is possible. I used to be a very angry person. Ive never laid a hand on a woman but I was angry a lot. I found a way to change that, to relieve myself of hostility. So Im living proof people can change and there were many who didnt think that was possible. Im not sticking up for wife beaters Im just optimistic about the power of personal growth if so desired.
Being who you are, I can understand why you think this way, and your honest wish that it were true. Quitting drinking, heroin, coke, any of those things is hard, as we both know. Abuse, especially physical abuse, is about power. It's not about anything else but controlling another person. That in itself is a powerful thing, and it's something most abusers do not want to give up. Their own inadequacies make them feel they are being made up for by having complete control over another person. A drunk or a junkie has no control over themselves. An abuser has all the control.

It's a scary thing to see an abuser in the middle of a rage. Have you ever seen it? Their eyes say "Kill", they get pumped up, veins stick out, they become stronger than they are normally. They are capable of anything. One instance with the guy who beat me: he knocked me down in the backyard and sat on my chest and grabbed the sides of my head with both of his and twisted, and twisted...harder and harder...he was trying to break my neck and I couldn't breathe, so I couldn't fight, and the last thing I thought before I passed out was, "He's going to twist my head right off my body."

I couldn't move for a couple days, and had to lie to people about what happened. I can't even remember how I explained it away now...but I did, just like I would do for another 4 years.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:28 am

To let the guy off with a warning only show's how unimportant domestic violence is rated ..how many time's must a woman be beaten before it's taken seriously ..we have to start now with prison for offender's.... or do we just carry on giving the guy 2/3/4 chance's just because he says sorry. If the guy had any genuine remorse it would be a one off and never happen again but ask anyone who has had the misfortune of living through domestic violence and they'll tell you IT'S NEVER JUST A ONEOFF.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:16 am

I understand where you're coming from pants, and I know you've been through it yourself. The thing is, there shouldn't be a chance to say, "sorry", because it should never happen in the first place. *sigh* In an ideal world....

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:23 am

sixyearsleft wrote: you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..

You know 6, there are a lot of women on this forum that have suffered maltreatment from their partners and all tell a very similar story. Your post here could be taken as provocation.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:24 am

BabyRider wrote:

[quote=sixyearsleft]you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..
That's pretty harsh, Six. Just how much experience do you have with domestic violence? Ever done it? Ever been hit? Ever been thrown down a flight of stairs using a 50 pound bag of dog food? Ever been thrown from a moving car? Ever had your face punched so many times in a row that you can't breathe or see? Ever had anyone try to bite your fingers OFF? Ever been dragged up a flight of stairs by your hair? Ever been kicked in the stomach so hard that you get 4 broken ribs?

I have had all that and more happen to me, and if you think I'm a victim, you're wrong. And to say that someone would make up a story about being abused is sick on your part. I think you need to grow up and face the ugly truth. People who hit do NOT deserve a second chance. Because all too often that second chance turns into a dead woman. You should do some research before you shoot your mouth off.

So? You think this psycho deserves a second chance? Oh, he didn't mean to punch me in the face so many times, he didn't mean to break my ribs, the toss down the stairs was an accident.

What are you, a masochist? You're out of your mind.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:25 am

OpenMind wrote: You know 6, there are a lot of women on this forum that have suffered maltreatment from their partners and all tell a very similar story. Your post here could be taken as provocation.

That's EXACTLY how I take it.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:27 am

[QUOTE=sixyearsleft]you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..[/QUOTE

Like i've said before you don't have a clue MEN WHO HIT WOMEN SHOULD GO TO PRISON or would you like to brown nose all of them ..

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:31 am

sixyearsleft wrote: you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..

So a slap is ok, a man need not be punished for it YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND YOU CLAIM YOUR MOTHER WAS STABBED... ANY ACT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ANY PERSON BE IT MAN/WOMEN NEEDS TO BE DELT WITH AND THE OFFENDER LOCKED UP.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:37 am

pantsonfire321@aol.com wrote: So a slap is ok, a man need not be punished for it YOU OF ALL PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND YOU CLAIM YOUR MOTHER WAS STABBED... ANY ACT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ANY PERSON BE IT MAN/WOMEN NEEDS TO BE DELT WITH AND THE OFFENDER LOCKED UP.
Six, your own mother was stabbed and you have this attitude? You need to get your ass back in here and explain a few things. Especially why you called Pants ignorant for her way of thinking. Or is the heat too much for you?

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:02 pm

sixyearsleft wrote: you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..

For a start i'm talking about every case of DV however unimpotant YOU might think just a slap is or a kick is ...

Secondly NO,,, if you hit someone WHY do you deserve a second chance if you hit someone you break the law - period

And thirdly if ME being IGNORANT is pathetic where does that leave you.. someone who thinks that wife beater's should get off scott free ..you've entered the lion's den MATE if that's what you really believe YOU ARE NO BETTER THAN A WIFE BEATER YOURSELF BECAUSE YOU THINK THEY DESERVE A SECOND CHANCE.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:17 pm

In the name of common decency, I will delete this thread unless you ladies are happy to keep using it. Or rather, I will ask to have it deleted as I don't know how to delete a thread.

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:20 pm

sixyearsleft wrote: you talk about extream cases all the time becouse you claim it happened to you, some ppl deserve a second chance, just becouse of your bad experience all should suffer, your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..

And being as i'm really PATHETIC please explain to me why criminals ( men who hit women ) should be allowed to walk the streets ..why do you believe that they should not be punished ??????

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:29 pm

sixyearsleft wrote: y your ignorent your abhorrence is pathetic, grow up and stop being the victim..

So i'll ask AGAIN why should offenders be let off ...............