ForumGarden

el guapo;1083889 wrote: ww 2 ya only joined in after the japs bombed ya to peices in pearl habour


You mock cruelly.

Historicaly, America was no part of OUR war against Germany and it was a war they tried to avoid.

We were at war with Germany, not America. The war escalated into world war when Japan attacked America thus giving them no option but to retaliate against Japan's planned attack on America.

The attack by Japan on Pearl harbour was intended as a preventative action to keep the US Pacific fleet from influencing the war that Japan was planning in South East Asia against Britain, the Netherlands and America.

The Japanese attack on 7th December was un-provoked by America and within 3 hours, it left 3,400 American dead including 50 civilians.

The attack by Japan was an act of terrorism and the Americans were murdered, not war casualty's at the time of the conflict in Europe.

This act engaged America into our war and at the end of war 300,000 Americans were dead and 670,000 injured.

As you remember British casualty's, you need to remember these.

wildhorses;1083495 wrote: Yes we are losing members. I already notice there are quite a few that have not been here. I know what you mean....these are veiled personal attacks on americans. But then they wash their hands by saying that they are just "criticizing" our politicians. At first it was just very mild...but now it has escalated to a point that is annoying. You are right...it will be sad...this was a nice forum.


I haven't been here lately, but it has nothing to do with the anti-American bashing...and Jimbo would be the LAST person that I choose to be guilty of bashing us. He has an English sense of humor, and can be taken wrong sometimes, but he's a good man and doesn't mean any harm....for goodness sakes...maybe one of the reasons that people stopped coming to the garden is a mixture of busy lives and all of the petty remarks that people leave each other in threads, but that might just be me.

my 2 cents....

WonderWendy3;1084248 wrote: I haven't been here lately, but it has nothing to do with the anti-American bashing...and Jimbo would be the LAST person that I choose to be guilty of bashing us. He has an English sense of humor, and can be taken wrong sometimes, but he's a good man and doesn't mean any harm....for goodness sakes...maybe one of the reasons that people stopped coming to the garden is a mixture of busy lives and all of the petty remarks that people leave each other in threads, but that might just be me.

my 2 cents....


petty remarks for sure.

oscar;1083761 wrote: Yeah, the french... dirty smelly cowardly, arrogant and thank god we have an English channel between us.


I've read this thread. I'm not going to say anything more. but it's overdue time to go.

AussiePam;1084294 wrote: I've read this thread. I'm not going to say anything more. but it's overdue time to go.


I agree. Oscar and Fuzzy, you've had a wild spree for a couple of days but you're being seriously impolite, it's like watching Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand egg each other toward self-destruction. Can we aim for politeness for a few months now to make up for it? I can't think of anyone who wants it to carry on like this. While you're behaving this way nobody can hold a rational discussion.

We are the people, all of us. English and British, and everyone else who breathes. Manipulated and duped at the hands of government. You can do all of the reading you like about the hows and whys of history. You can immerse yourself up to your eyeballs in politics today. You can rant and rave and rip each other up with opinions and insults. Its all for naught. It accomplishes nothing. We all eat and sleep ane work and play. Wish the best in life for our loved ones. None of us ever had anything to do with decisions to go to war, or not. Government loves it when citizens are so busy hating each other, that they pay even less attention to how they are manipulating us all as though we were dust. The world is falling apart, and as it slides we will all go together. It will not matter what country we are from if we are all hungry and cold. Blame? it will be too late for blame. Our time on earth is brief, and so many things are out of our hands. The most joy in life is found in loving and appreciating one another. There is power in love also.

When this forum started there was tremendous excitement about us all getting to know one another. It was thrilling to be in touch with our cousins across the sea, and to get to know one another. There were many threads written about the bonds between the Americans and the British. An obsession with politics is so laughable to me. Ranting and raving about the doings of political leaders is so fruitless. It is second to being a celebrity groupie. They play on their own team, perform like they are in a broadway play. Wear masks for the audience, entertain you with fear, false hope, and bravado, and distract us from working on simply being better people. If people ever hope to do anything about the state of the world, they need to stick together, and not allow leaders of countries to divide them, or to plant seeds of discension or hatred.

Cultural differences are wonderful, and discovering them is such a privledge.

Ignore people who are mean, rude, or over zealous. It is a good practice here,as it is in living. You might not be able to save the world, but you could save the forum. Which has been an out of the ordinary meeting place, stumbled upon by so many people with good hearts, and exceptionaly bright minds.

We have failed to remember to be polite, Weeder. Changing the direction of future events is well within our grasp though, both on the site and in the world at large.

spot;1084313 wrote: We have failed to remember to be polite, Weeder. Changing the direction of future events is well within our grasp though, both on the site and in the world at large.


Spot - I'm not going to rise to the bait.

Oscar - I've seen a lot of your posts and am going to avoid them in future.

Far Rider/ Jester - the views you express are not now the views of mainstream America, and if a person disagrees with part of what you say it doesn't mean they are dissing your country. I'm not even dissing you. And that goes for your friend, WildHorses too.

I am uncomfortable in Forum Garden these days. The strident views of half a dozen posters are dominating a whole large forum and poisoning it for the rest of us.

Lemme know if things change...

Bait? How could that possibly be seen as bait?

spot;1084344 wrote: Bait? How could that possibly be seen as bait?


It was not bait. I read it as very sincere. But thats just me.

I'm horrified !



I've been here for several years although I'm not such a prolifiic poster as I used to be, mainly because many of my FG friends have left.



I don't read every single post these days so can't comment on any specific anti-americanism but if it exists, the perpetrators should be ashamed.



Some of my best friends here are from the US............... if they are driven away I would be devastated !



Got to go out, but may persue this more later



(Excuse the spelling mistakes but I'm in a hurry)

Nobody's chasing off Americans Bez, Oscar and fuzzy just got carried away in reacting to JJ/Touchstone's deliberate egging. He was impersonating a US Marine gloating at US single-handed superiority and instead of answering rationally the pair of them went off like fireworks. I hope they've learned their lesson. They were provoked and they responded. The trick when you're provoked is not to respond.

Let's start by remembering what happened.

JJ was permanently banned from Forumgarden. He came back with a proxy-disguised registration as Touchstone and built a persona. He claimed to be a US marine - bear in mind he's actually South African - and he started a deliberately inflamatory thread saying the US had won in Iraq. Fuzzy and Oscar reacted badly and shouted when Jester and Wildhorses came in backing JJ/Touchstone.

Who, out of all these people, are you blaming for any perception of anti-Americanism?

Then we had this thread of Accountable's, complaining about me still being a member here? Suddenly it all turns into being my fault? I don't quite know what I can do about that. Would someone like to tell me when the last time I showed impoliteness to a member was, for example?

Oscar and fuzzy, get in here and apologize for your over-the-top reaction of the last couple of days, that might start to calm the people who need calming. I know it's been fun for you but it's not helped.

AussiePam;1084342 wrote: Spot - I'm not going to rise to the bait.

Oscar - I've seen a lot of your posts and am going to avoid them in future.

Far Rider/ Jester - the views you express are not now the views of mainstream America, and if a person disagrees with part of what you say it doesn't mean they are dissing your country. I'm not even dissing you. And that goes for your friend, WildHorses too.

I am uncomfortable in Forum Garden these days. The strident views of half a dozen posters are dominating a whole large forum and poisoning it for the rest of us.

Lemme know if things change...


Pam:

Everything was calming down nicely. This is a very inflammatory post....and you posted one on another thread too. Why do this? Maybe you were enjoying the fighting, but I dont think anyone else was. Do you have something nice to say?

wildhorses;1084454 wrote: Pam:



Everything was calming down nicely. This is a very inflammatory post....and you posted one on another thread too. Why do this? Maybe you were enjoying the fighting, but I dont think anyone else was. Do you have something nice to say?


Here's a little FYI for you dear... we have folks all over the world, signing on at all times of the day or week, then reacting to what they read. What may be calm waters to you, are not calmed waters to them. And just because you may have kissed and made nice... that doesn't set the bar for any other member.



Your reprimand post was more out of line and uncalled for, then any honest reflection by AP on what she read in this thread , IMO.

spot;1084421 wrote: Let's start by remembering what happened.

JJ was permanently banned from Forumgarden. He came back with a proxy-disguised registration as Touchstone and built a persona. He claimed to be a US marine - bear in mind he's actually South African - and he started a deliberately inflamatory thread saying the US had won in Iraq. Fuzzy and Oscar reacted badly and shouted when Jester and Wildhorses came in backing JJ/Touchstone.

Who, out of all these people, are you blaming for any perception of anti-Americanism?

Then we had this thread of Accountable's, complaining about me still being a member here? Suddenly it all turns into being my fault? I don't quite know what I can do about that. Would someone like to tell me when the last time I showed impoliteness to a member was, for example?

Oscar and fuzzy, get in here and apologize for your over-the-top reaction of the last couple of days, that might start to calm the people who need calming. I know it's been fun for you but it's not helped.


Well to begin with, I never intended to "back" touchstone. I was responding to anti american posts all over the place. However the content of my post did agree with touchstone and jester. And I remember one angry post of mine did express the feeling that Jester was right. But this was in response to anti american sentiment on the thread. I dont see that Spot was the only one.

Spot: I will just be honest (please dont take it the wrong way, I am not trying to fight) sometimes I do feel like you have some anti american feelings expressed in your posts, but AT LEAST they are well within the context of the topic at hand. But they are there. I cant specifically name any for you, but in the future if I feel this way I will (politely) say so. I remember one time I did get angry with you and told you and you stopped right away. I have no idea why I did not continue with this method. My mistake.

What has been on this board the last several days has been outright mudslinging aimed mainly at Americans and many times not even within the context of any real debate. I cant remember Spot being involved in the actual mudslinging though....as best as I can remember.

This is what I think led up to it:

There were occassional small jabs at Americans along the way. We all ignored it as it was minimal and we (or I ) thought it might not be intentional anyway....so let it go. But all the jabs started to exact their toll and buildup, so we (including me) started some small jabs back. Although this is human nature, it was a mistake. It is not good enough to say "they did it first", because we (me included) participated by returning the jabs. Another way to respond would be to address the received jab directly instead of firing back. The whole thing slowly escalated and resentment built. I think the resentment was already there below the suface when touchstone came into the picture. So ...enter touchstone. The whole thing starts to explode and all the resentment that has built up comes out.

In the future I plan to change how I handle any slight, perceived or real. And that is to refrain from returning a slight, and just tell the person how I feel about something they said directly. I hope this works for me.

we're not going to fix anything until everyone can agree that there is a problem or at least accept that there is a reason we feel the way we do. Every American here has at some point and/or in this thread said they they are tired of the constant digs at America. And for people in other countries to say they don't see it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.



it's sad that we're losing people over this.

flopstock;1084460 wrote: Here's a little FYI for you dear... we have folks all over the world, signing on at all times of the day or week, then reacting to what they read. What may be calm waters to you, are not calmed waters to them. And just because you may have kissed and made nice... that doesn't set the bar for any other member.



Your reprimand post was more out of line and uncalled for, then any honest reflection by AP on what she read in this thread , IMO.


Thanks for the FYI. Now that I read it, I could have worded it differently.

I only have a short time today and will not be on until the early hours of the morning so don't think i'm ignoring anyone if i don't answer for hours.

If i have offended any one, especially America.. Please let me know on here and there will be no offence taken. (Promise),

Let's get this settled today. (or later today in my case),

Thanks,

Oscar

sunny104;1084477 wrote: we're not going to fix anything until everyone can agree that there is a problem or at least accept that there is a reason we feel the way we do. Every American here has at some point and/or in this thread said they they are tired of the constant digs at America. And for people in other countries to say they don't see it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.







it's sad that we're losing people over this.
I think it's wrong for Americans to leave FG because they feel slighted by foreigners bashing America. How will leaving help any situation. Only through discussion can the differences be figured out. Sometimes I think they way Americans show their patriotism is by standing on the roof top shout " God Bless America" while European show their patriotism by shout "America Sucks". Then naming all the reasons why America sucks. It will go from "We dont support the war in Iraq'. Too " America sucks because they didn't come to the great war when we rang the tea bell, America sucks because they enslaved blacks, America sucks cause they needed the French to win the revolution..etc.etc.



Americans feel a closer kinship with Great Britain, Ireland , and Scotland (not sure of the correct terminology on how you refer to each other and your countries) , than any other countries in the world. Obviously because a great number of us have descended from there. We don't feel near the kinship to the likes of France, Germany, Italy Spain etc. etc. even though a number of us have descended from other countries. So when our closest kinsmen constantly point out our faults until the end of time and in damn near every thread (it seems) it begins to hurt to be quite honest. Did we win WWII, hell no it was a concerted effort and yes we probably should have helped our kinsmen earlier. We can't change the past, so we would appreciate not getting beat over the head about it constantly.



Sorry if this is mumbo jumbo, I almost didn't hit submit because I am not sure how it will go over.

YZGI;1084500 wrote: Sorry if this is mumbo jumbo, I almost didn't hit submit because I am not sure how it will go over.Leaving out Wales was a major omission!

It occurs to me that the inauguration of President-elect Obama will provide an opportunity for everyone to recognize that what's been described for years here as "anti-American" is and always has been anti-Bush-White-House. If it were anti-American then the criticism would continue in the same terms. If there's a new and favourable perception perhaps we can finally ditch this confusion and accept that "anti-American" is a misnomer. I, for one, have been solidly against the NeoCon PNAC group which took power in the USA in 2000 and has driven the country to ruin over the last eight years. That approach seems entirely Pro-American from where I stand.

spot;1084512 wrote: It occurs to me that the inauguration of President-elect Obama will provide an opportunity for everyone to recognize that what's been described for years here as "anti-American" is and always has been anti-Bush-White-House. If it were anti-American then the criticism would continue in the same terms. If there's a new and favourable perception perhaps we can finally ditch this confusion and accept that "anti-American" is a misnomer. I, for one, have been solidly against the NeoCon PNAC group which took power in the USA in 2000 and has driven the country to ruin over the last eight years. That approach seems entirely Pro-American from where I stand.


I am counting the minutes until that Bush is out of office. I never liked him....and I never liked his father either.

jimbo;1084496 wrote: before any one jumps on my bald head i thought i'd just explain



that flopper sent us a christmas card insulting suzy it was addressed beauty and the beast :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


we wouldn't do that!







we'd slip off and hurt ourselves..... :p

spot;1084504 wrote: Leaving out Wales was a major omission!
Dangit , It sure was.:-5



My apologies,



Wales--The forgotten country named after a huge fish, how could I ever forget them?:D

Hang on a minute... Who's JJ ??

oscar;1084540 wrote: Hang on a minute... Who's JJ ??


anymore it seems like 'who isn't jj?'....:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

oscar;1084491 wrote: I only have a short time today and will not be on until the early hours of the morning so don't think i'm ignoring anyone if i don't answer for hours.

If i have offended any one, especially America.. Please let me know on here and there will be no offence taken. (Promise),

Let's get this settled today. (or later today in my case),

Thanks,

Oscar


Ya you did.....but it seems everyone was throwing crap at the time anyway. This is the first time I felt this way about any of your posts though...just so ya know. None of the posts that I speak of were directed at me personally....they were to others, but some were..... unpleasant. I was suprised to see this side of you.

jimbo;1084524 wrote: its a mammal not a fish :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
Don't be bringing my mamma into this...

YZGI;1084500 wrote: I think it's wrong for Americans to leave FG because they feel slighted by foreigners bashing America. How will leaving help any situation. Only through discussion can the differences be figured out. Sometimes I think they way Americans show their patriotism is by standing on the roof top shout " God Bless America" while European show their patriotism by shout "America Sucks". Then naming all the reasons why America sucks. It will go from "We dont support the war in Iraq'. Too " America sucks because they didn't come to the great war when we rang the tea bell, America sucks because they enslaved blacks, America sucks cause they needed the French to win the revolution..etc.etc.



Americans feel a closer kinship with Great Britain, Ireland , and Scotland (not sure of the correct terminology on how you refer to each other and your countries) , than any other countries in the world. Obviously because a great number of us have descended from there. We don't feel near the kinship to the likes of France, Germany, Italy Spain etc. etc. even though a number of us have descended from other countries. So when our closest kinsmen constantly point out our faults until the end of time and in damn near every thread (it seems) it begins to hurt to be quite honest. Did we win WWII, hell no it was a concerted effort and yes we probably should have helped our kinsmen earlier. We can't change the past, so we would appreciate not getting beat over the head about it constantly.



Sorry if this is mumbo jumbo, I almost didn't hit submit because I am not sure how it will go over.


How very succinct of you Wisey.



^^^^ that's why we love Wisey, he talks sense occasionally.





Blessings of the season and peace to you all, wherever you are. :-4

wildhorses;1084547 wrote: Ya you did.....but it seems everyone was throwing crap at the time anyway. This is the first time I felt this way about any of your posts though...just so ya know. None of the posts that I speak of were directed at me personally....they were to others, but some were..... unpleasant. I was suprised to see this side of you.


Can i blame the time of the month??? NO, oh ok then.

Apologie's WH, i shall look back at the threads tonight when i get home and have a look at what i've said.

I don't have a problem with offering the hand of apology if i have offended any one.

jimbo;1084570 wrote: i can see a problem here you only have two hands :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


That's a very flaming remark jimbo. I was actally born with only one arm but obviously you don't know me and can't see me on here.

My disability has been the butt of many a cruel remark and i expect it of children who know no better.

I actually see nothing wrong with this thread..there are a few that have very strong wills and definite opinions..and wicked sense of humor..i learn alot when they start discussing..their wealth of knowlege is more than mine. Jimbo is smart as heck to come up with the one liners he does..

Oscar and Fuzzy are both very smart..and have a drive about them that i very much respect..and a crystal intelligence..

Spot is way to smart..very educated..seems to know everything..in detail..:wah: so some of his simple remarks crack me up sometimes.

of course i like you all..but these stand out in this thread and i am championing them..



if you step around the shallowness of hurt feelings and dont take things personally this thread is very educating..and entertaining.:-6

oscar;1084568 wrote: Can i blame the time of the month??? NO, oh ok then.

Apologie's WH, i shall look back at the threads tonight when i get home and have a look at what i've said.

I don't have a problem with offering the hand of apology if i have offended any one.


No apology necessary Oscar. We have always gotten along very well. Lets forget it all and have a fresh start. I posted some angry things too. It just all got out of hand. Friends?

jimbo;1084579 wrote: if that is indeed the case i am very sorry but the problem is worse than i had feared


So why is the problem worse??