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120 pages......... and you guys still havent worked out a truce.

This is pretty bloody funny.

IF GOD HAD SPOKEN, IT WOULD BE STRANGE THAT HE HAD SPOKEN DIFFERENTLY TO ALL THE ADHERENTS OF THE DIFFERENT SECTS, WHO DAMN EACH OTHER, WHO ACCUSE EACH OTHER, WITH REASON, OF SUPERSTITION AND IMPIETY.

God has spoken differently to each nation of the globe which we inhabit. The Indian does not believe one word of what He said to the Chinaman; the Mohammedan considers what He has told to the Christian as fables; the Jew considers the Mohammedan and the Christian as sacrilegious corruptors of the Holy Law, which his God has given to his fathers. The Christian, proud of his more modern revelation, equally damns the Indian and the Chinaman, the Mohammedan, and even the Jew, whose holy books he holds. Who is wrong or right? Each one exclaims: "It is I!" Every one claims the same proofs; each one speaks of his miracles, his saints, his prophets, his martyrs. Sensible men answer, that they are all delirious; that God has not spoken, if it is true that He is a Spirit who has neither mouth nor tongue; that the God of the Universe could, without borrowing mortal organism, inspire His creatures with what He desired them to learn, and that, as they are all equally ignorant of what they ought to think about God, it is evident that God did not want to instruct them. The adherents of the different forms of worship which we see established in this world, accuse each other of superstition and of ungodliness. The Christians abhor the superstition of the heathen, of the Chinese, of the Mohammedans. The Roman Catholics treat the Protestant Christians as impious; the latter incessantly declaim against Roman superstition. They are all right. To be impious, is to have unjust opinions about the God who is adored; to be superstitious, is to have false ideas of Him. In accusing each other of superstition, the different religionists resemble humpbacks who taunt each other with their malformation.

Furthermore, most of them also claim to have the same characters, often by different names (they can't even agree on that much), yet the words & fables change with each culture & sect. Every single one makes claim that their's is the only 'true' version, and that their version is the word of God. The whole story book is a catalog of Chinese Whispers - "I met a bloke down the pub who said that his brother's mate had a second cousin who told him that his sister met someone at the shop who told her such & such, so it has to be true".

I don't disagree with much of what the last few posts say. However what I object to is painting each person with the same brush. "Every single one makes claim that there's is the only 'true' version off the word of God" I would like to know the source of such a statement. I can agree that some even a lot do but that statement is simply not true.

The biggest problem is there are some 22 000 various sects and groups of Christians just as in any other faith. At the time of Jesus there many different Judaisms. Several of the 22 000 Christians groups seem to think that they and they alone have the sole handle on the truth.

Fuzzy;1504431 wrote: IF GOD HAD SPOKEN, IT WOULD BE STRANGE THAT HE HAD SPOKEN DIFFERENTLY TO ALL THE ADHERENTS OF THE DIFFERENT SECTS, WHO DAMN EACH OTHER, WHO ACCUSE EACH OTHER, WITH REASON, OF SUPERSTITION AND IMPIETY.

God has spoken differently to each nation of the globe which we inhabit. The Indian does not believe one word of what He said to the Chinaman; the Mohammedan considers what He has told to the Christian as fables; the Jew considers the Mohammedan and the Christian as sacrilegious corruptors of the Holy Law, which his God has given to his fathers. The Christian, proud of his more modern revelation, equally damns the Indian and the Chinaman, the Mohammedan, and even the Jew, whose holy books he holds. Who is wrong or right? Each one exclaims: "It is I!" Every one claims the same proofs; each one speaks of his miracles, his saints, his prophets, his martyrs. Sensible men answer, that they are all delirious; that God has not spoken, if it is true that He is a Spirit who has neither mouth nor tongue; that the God of the Universe could, without borrowing mortal organism, inspire His creatures with what He desired them to learn, and that, as they are all equally ignorant of what they ought to think about God, it is evident that God did not want to instruct them. The adherents of the different forms of worship which we see established in this world, accuse each other of superstition and of ungodliness. The Christians abhor the superstition of the heathen, of the Chinese, of the Mohammedans. The Roman Catholics treat the Protestant Christians as impious; the latter incessantly declaim against Roman superstition. They are all right. To be impious, is to have unjust opinions about the God who is adored; to be superstitious, is to have false ideas of Him. In accusing each other of superstition, the different religionists resemble humpbacks who taunt each other with their malformation.


The true God gave us the Bible. Judaism came from the true God and Christianity came out of Judaism. Once the Christians are raptured from this world, the Jews will once again rule in this world. Christ will rule from Jerusalem. All other religions are of satan, not God. Any religion that doesn't adhere to what the Bible actually says is not of God.

fuzzy and Four Part. I agree with you both. That God I do not believe in either.. Yet I'm still a Christian.

Xfrod-I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what you havve said.

"Literalism is the Heresy of the Gentiles" John Spong and I agree with him.

Ted;1504810 wrote: fuzzy and Four Part. I agree with you both. That God I do not believe in either.. Yet I'm still a Christian.

Xfrod-I'm sorry but I totally disagree with what you havve said.

"Literalism is the Heresy of the Gentiles" John Spong and I agree with him.


What do you base your beliefs on?

xfrodobagginsx;1504833 wrote: What do you base your beliefs on?


I think beliefs are normally based on common sense. Except for people who don't have any common sense. They will simply believe what they're told by others and what's written in the book of lies.

xfrod My beliefs are based on years and years of experience as well as much formal study In those years I have learned how to translate both the ancient Hebrew and both classical l Greek and News testament Greek. In terpretation takes more than just reading the Bible. It was written in a particular Jewish style called midrash. I have also studied the history of the production of the the Bible.. Considering all and the reality of life on earth I fall in line with modern theologians. Bishop Spong has written a book entitled "Literalism is a Gentile Heresy". I take the Bible seriously but is=t is not in and of itself the "Word of God" but god does speak to people through the very human words of the Bible" Hans Kung.

Ted;1504917 wrote: xfrod My beliefs are based on years and years of experience as well as much formal study In those years I have learned how to translate both the ancient Hebrew and both classical l Greek and News testament Greek. In terpretation takes more than just reading the Bible. It was written in a particular Jewish style called midrash. I have also studied the history of the production of the the Bible.. Considering all and the reality of life on earth I fall in line with modern theologians. Bishop Spong has written a book entitled "Literalism is a Gentile Heresy". I take the Bible seriously but is=t is not in and of itself the "Word of God" but god does speak to people through the very human words of the Bible" Hans Kung.


My beliefs are based on what the Bible says and years of experience as well. I am not fluent in Hebrew or Greek, however, I don't need to be. I have Greek Dictionaries that I can easily use instantly via the Computer when I want to know the Greek or Hebrew definition of the word. I don't see how you can conclude anything other than the fact that the Bible is God's word.

xfrodobagginsx;1504950 wrote: I don't see how you can conclude anything other than the fact that the Bible is God's word.


Probably because it isn't.

xfrod the Bible is not God's Word. That rightly belongs to the risen one and not a book. The Bible is written from oral tradition and probabbly some written sources. It has been added to and subtracted from. For instance the Virgin Bith story was a later addition to the Bible. The section in Matthew where it says that Peter is the Rock on which Goid will build his church was a much later addition inserted by the church. Toi make the Bible the "kWord of God:" is to make it an object of idolatry.

Ted;1504976 wrote: xfrod the Bible is not God's Word. That rightly belongs to the risen one and not a book. The Bible is written from oral tradition and probabbly some written sources. It has been added to and subtracted from. For instance the Virgin Bith story was a later addition to the Bible. The section in Matthew where it says that Peter is the Rock on which Goid will build his church was a much later addition inserted by the church. Toi make the Bible the "kWord of God:" is to make it an object of idolatry.


The Bible IS 100% God's word.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. {in old time: or, at any time}

No, the Bible was written by they eyewitnesses to the events. Look it up. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter all walked with Jesus and knew Him personally. James and Jude were His half brothers. One of the main criteria at the council of nicea was that it had to be written by an eyewitness to be considered in the canon. There is Zero evidence that anything has been added or subtracted from the Bible. Zero. There is a small sentence or two that is in contest that is neither proven nor disproven, but nothing that changes any doctrine or nothing other than spelling errors or spelling differences of the same word with the same meaning. It's God's word and it's been preserved for us. The Dead Sea Scrolls Affirm the preservation of scripture. They preceded the oldest manuscripts of the time by over 1000 years. So you are kidding yourself or you just don't know the facts.

xfrod so it would seem that you believe in talking snakes, the sun standing still for a day, corplses walking around (Zombies). The kBible is a Jewish book written by Jews in their ancient style and is not apprec iated in a literal style which is a gentile heresy. The beauty of the Bible is lost and so is the dcfontent in literalism. If you see it that way I totally disagree.l. After the experience of Jesus they went to the OT to make it or him fit what the sacred scriptures apppear to say to a non Jew. The idea that Herod ordered all of the young male babiers destroyed is written up and based on the Moses in the basket story.To take the kBible literallly is pure nonsense and is to miss all the beauty therein. Hey if you are hearing voices in your head like God better go see your doctor. The birth story is a myth. This is not to deny that Jesus was born but he was borrn in the same way the rest of us were born. There is even some question as to whether Joseph was even a real character just as with kAAbraham.

The sun is actually standing still, in relation to the earth at least, not in relation to the centre of the galaxy or entire universe. When the bible was concocted the sun was said to be orbiting the earth. We now know better. Perhaps Joshua should have asked the earth to stand still, but god never told him the truth. That's just one little part of the bible to prove that it can't be 100% true. In fact, the bible is 100% bull****.

Ted;1505094 wrote: xfrod so it would seem that you believe in talking snakes, the sun standing still for a day, corplses walking around (Zombies). The kBible is a Jewish book written by Jews in their ancient style and is not apprec iated in a literal style which is a gentile heresy. The beauty of the Bible is lost and so is the dcfontent in literalism. If you see it that way I totally disagree.l. After the experience of Jesus they went to the OT to make it or him fit what the sacred scriptures apppear to say to a non Jew. The idea that Herod ordered all of the young male babiers destroyed is written up and based on the Moses in the basket story.To take the kBible literallly is pure nonsense and is to miss all the beauty therein. Hey if you are hearing voices in your head like God better go see your doctor. The birth story is a myth. This is not to deny that Jesus was born but he was borrn in the same way the rest of us were born. There is even some question as to whether Joseph was even a real character just as with kAAbraham.


If I can believe that an all powerful God created the Universe out of nothing, then yes I can believe that God allowed satan to possess a snake and make it talk or God causing the sun to stand still for Joshua. Which is a bigger miracle? I have actually seen satanic spirits personally, so it's not a stretch for me. Why do you reject Scientific law of thermodynamics, that matter and energy cannot exist out of nothing? It couldn't be here with out God. And God has spoken to me and guided me in life. I have seen miracles in my family that cannot be denied or written off. The Bible and the gift of salvation WAS given to the Jew first, that is true, but since they rejected their Messiah, that gift was passed on to the Gentiles for a time. Israel will return to the Lord one day and embrace their Messiah Jesus Christ.

Fuzzy;1505100 wrote: The sun is actually standing still, in relation to the earth at least, not in relation to the centre of the galaxy or entire universe. When the bible was concocted the sun was said to be orbiting the earth. We now know better. Perhaps Joshua should have asked the earth to stand still, but god never told him the truth. That's just one little part of the bible to prove that it can't be 100% true. In fact, the bible is 100% bull****.


Where in the Bible does it say that the Sun orbits the earth?

The Bible does say that the Earth hangs on nothing (Outer Space): Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over empty space; He hangs the earth on nothing.

The Bible does say that the Earth is round: Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

The circle of the earth would look like a circle of paper. A three teered universe is not a globe it is more like a flat rouind table. As for taking the Bible literally I find it ludicrousd. The same for atonement theology makes God into a ruthless monster.

xfrodobagginsx;1505236 wrote: Where in the Bible does it say that the Sun orbits the earth?






I don't know where. But I know that people like Galileo were punished by the church for claiming otherwise. I also know that the bible says that the earth is round.

A young Jehovah's Witness told me that. When I asked her whether the bible says the earth is spherical she changed the subject.

A well known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy.

He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish.

The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.'

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever', said the old lady.'But it's turtles all the way down!'

Fuzzy;1505248 wrote: I don't know where. But I know that people like Galileo were punished by the church for claiming otherwise.Joshua 10:12-14 wrote: 12 On the day the Lord gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the Lord in the presence of Israel:

“Sun, stand still over Gibeon,

and you, moon, over the Valley of Aijalon.

13 So the sun stood still,

and the moon stopped,

till the nation avenged itself on[a] its enemies,

as it is written in the Book of Jashar.

The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day. 14 There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the Lord listened to a human being. Surely the Lord was fighting for Israel! Psalm 19:1-6 wrote: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.

3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.

4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,

5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.

6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.Psalm 93:1 wrote: The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.]Fuzzy;1505248 wrote: I also know that the bible says that the earth is round.

A young Jehovah's Witness told me that. When I asked her whether the bible says the earth is spherical she changed the subject.Matthew 4:8 wrote: Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.




Fuzzy;1505248 wrote: A well known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy.

He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish.

The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.'

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever', said the old lady.'But it's turtles all the way down!'That's just too cute.

Fuzzy;1505248 wrote: I don't know where. But I know that people like Galileo were punished by the church for claiming otherwise. I also know that the bible says that the earth is round.

A young Jehovah's Witness told me that. When I asked her whether the bible says the earth is spherical she changed the subject.

A well known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy.

He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the centre of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy.

At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: 'What you have told us is rubbish.

The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise.'

The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, 'What is the tortoise standing on?'

'You're very clever, young man, very clever', said the old lady.'But it's turtles all the way down!'


But did you know that the Bible says that the earth hangs on nothing? In empty/outer space? I don't follow the Church, I follow God's word. There were people that belonged to the Church, primarily the Catholic Church, that did bad things in the past. BTW I am not a Catholic.

Asho a literal reading of the Bible leads to all kinds of absurdidities but they are rather humorous. The Bible is a Jewish book and should be read as such. Must admit though it makes for some interesting fiction movies.

The literalists need the Bible to be historically accurate. They need the security of a contract signed sealed and delivered. One wonders if they intend to take God to court if it turns out no to be. Frankly I trust the Divine. I do not need to make the Bible an object of Idolatry for that is what it has become.

I find it difficult to believe there are those who take things literaly such as the birth narraztive. We all know how babies come and that coming is preceeded by something we cal sex. No virgin birth, no magi, no star and not trip to Egypt. The story of the flight to Egypt is founded on the story of Moses in the basket after the pharoah ordered the death of all the young children (Midrash) The Birth story is a myth. Jesus was born but the way all of us came into the world. Noi "Magic and Makebelieve.="

To make another point: I am a devout Christian and I take the Bible seriously but it is not "The Word of God" it is an interprdetation of an interpretation and very humanly constructed. To make Jesuis into some kind oif divine being I believew is to demean the very great man the historical Jewsus was. We don't need to turn him into a magician for any reason.

Ted;1505285 wrote: The literalists need the Bible to be historically accurate. They need the security of a contract signed sealed and delivered. One wonders if they intend to take God to court if it turns out no to be. Frankly I trust the Divine. I do not need to make the Bible an object of Idolatry for that is what it has become.

I find it difficult to believe there are those who take things literaly such as the birth narraztive. We all know how babies come and that coming is preceeded by something we cal sex. No virgin birth, no magi, no star and not trip to Egypt. The story of the flight to Egypt is founded on the story of Moses in the basket after the pharoah ordered the death of all the young children (Midrash) The Birth story is a myth. Jesus was born but the way all of us came into the world. Noi "Magic and Makebelieve.="


The Bible IS historically accurate. You don't believe God's word and you call yourself a devout Christian? Which is a bigger miracle, God creating the Universe or the Virgin birth? The Bible IS true.

Ted;1505286 wrote: To make another point: I am a devout Christian and I take the Bible seriously but it is not "The Word of God" it is an interprdetation of an interpretation and very humanly constructed. To make Jesuis into some kind oif divine being I believew is to demean the very great man the historical Jewsus was. We don't need to turn him into a magician for any reason.


Devout Christians actually believe God's word. The Bible is NOT humanly constructed. Jesus IS God in the flesh. You can't call yourself a devout Christian or even a Christian at all and then reject God's word the Bible and reject that Jesus Christ is who He said He was. You don't know secular history either and it shows because even the secular historians of Jesus's day admit that the Christians believed Him to be God in the flesh and that they worshiped Him.

You call yourself a Christian and then reject everything to do with Christianity, the Bible and Jesus's divinity? Jesus said "Ye shall know them by their fruit".

kXfrod

you are speaking from a literalist point of view and I have come to the conclusion that literalism is indeed a heresy. I do know my history and up to about the 3rd century Jlesus was only thouogh of as a human being.. So you need the sec urity of the Bible being absollutly accurate kind of like a contract signed sealed and deliverd. If it doesn't work out that way are you going to take God to court? If you want to believe in Adam and Eve as real people go for it. That story is a myth borrowed from Gilgamish.. Did the sun really stand still while Joshua commited more murders? I'm sorry but that is so far from reality it is even humorous. The problem is this approach has almost destroyed the Christian faith. Now I think I shall go for a ride in my flaming chariot.

xfrod. I otained from and orthodox priest the information that there are some 22 000 various Christian groups aroound the world. Many of them think they have the sole handle on the truth. To which groupd do you belong. BTW the flaming chariot ride was phenominal itd even took me to the 7th heaven. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found just how evil it was. Come to think of it Jesus himself wasn't a Christian. He was born a Jew and he died a devout Jew. He had no intentions of starting a new church. Like Luther he wanted to reform some of the Jewish doctrine and dogma. I place my trust in the Divine not in the idolatry of a literal Bible.

Ted;1505333 wrote: kXfrod

you are speaking from a literalist point of view and I have come to the conclusion that literalism is indeed a heresy. I do know my history and up to about the 3rd century Jlesus was only thouogh of as a human being.. So you need the sec urity of the Bible being absollutly accurate kind of like a contract signed sealed and deliverd. If it doesn't work out that way are you going to take God to court? If you want to believe in Adam and Eve as real people go for it. That story is a myth borrowed from Gilgamish.. Did the sun really stand still while Joshua commited more murders? I'm sorry but that is so far from reality it is even humorous. The problem is this approach has almost destroyed the Christian faith. Now I think I shall go for a ride in my flaming chariot.


No, I'm speaking of a realist point of view. You are the heretic. You have departed from from the teachings of the true faith. Jesus was thought of as God from the disciples on. Thomas declared Him my Lord and my God. The disciples worshipped Him. Secular History says that the Christians worshipped Him "As a God". Gilgamesh is nothing more than confirmation that the Biblical stories actually happened, however, gilgamesh got many of the details wrong. All you are saying from your arguments is that you don't really believe in God or the Bible. You have a right not to, but don't call yourself a Christian because true Christians actually believe God and His word.

Xfrod I believe in God and his word. God's wored rightly belongs to the risen one and not a book. Placing the book on top is idolatry and nothing more. No you believe in talking snakes,the sun= standing still, the walls of Jericho falling down for Joshua, Men walking on water, totally blind folks get their sight bac by touching Jesus, mental illness caused by demon posetion and I could go on. The word Lord in the days of the NT was used for many folks: judges, administrators, , land owners, slaves master. The word god has a similar background the most obvious the name of the Roman emperor. As fls far as Thomas goes did he ever really sayu that. The Bible is a jewish book and has to be read as such. The Gospels were written to follow the Jewish liturgical year. Lets not forget that Judas died twice. He supposedly died in two different ways. Numbers 31 is a good example of God allowing war crimes, even encouraging them. Indeed gentile heresy. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found it evil. Better start reading books written by historians.

xfrod to which of the 2.2 000 variations on a theme do you suscribe. What makes you so sulre that you're not part of those ones that you consisder in error

Must add to that earlier list: no star leading the mythical wisemen, no angel choir handging about in the sky, no shepherds running to see this thinkg that has happened, no rip into egypt (origin=of the slaughteer of the innocents is a midrash based on the moses in the basket story), and of course we know where babies come and how they come.

Jesus was a great man and should be honored.

Ted;1505410 wrote: Xfrod I believe in God and his word. God's wored rightly belongs to the risen one and not a book. Placing the book on top is idolatry and nothing more. No you believe in talking snakes,the sun= standing still, the walls of Jericho falling down for Joshua, Men walking on water, totally blind folks get their sight bac by touching Jesus, mental illness caused by demon posetion and I could go on. The word Lord in the days of the NT was used for many folks: judges, administrators, , land owners, slaves master. The word god has a similar background the most obvious the name of the Roman emperor. As fls far as Thomas goes did he ever really sayu that. The Bible is a jewish book and has to be read as such. The Gospels were written to follow the Jewish liturgical year. Lets not forget that Judas died twice. He supposedly died in two different ways. Numbers 31 is a good example of God allowing war crimes, even encouraging them. Indeed gentile heresy. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found it evil. Better start reading books written by historians.

xfrod to which of the 2.2 000 variations on a theme do you suscribe. What makes you so sulre that you're not part of those ones that you consisder in error

Must add to that earlier list: no star leading the mythical wisemen, no angel choir handging about in the sky, no shepherds running to see this thinkg that has happened, no rip into egypt (origin=of the slaughteer of the innocents is a midrash based on the moses in the basket story), and of course we know where babies come and how they come.

Jesus was a great man and should be honored.


You are a heretic. Jesus Himself quoted the Bible as the authoritative word of God via the phrase "It is Written" Jesus Himself used the Bible as the Authoritative word of God, so you are kidding yourself.

Mt 4:4 But He answered and said, It is written, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

Mt 4:6 And he said to Him, If you are the Son of God, cast yourself down. For it is written, "He shall give His angels charge concerning You, and in their hands they shall bear You up, lest at any time You dash Your foot against a stone."

Mt 4:7 Jesus said to him, It is written again, "You shall not tempt the Lord your God."

Mt 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, Go, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve."

Mt 11:10 For this is the one of whom it is written, "Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You."

Mt 21:13 And He said to them, It is written, "My house shall be called the house of prayer"; but you have made it a den of thieves.

Mt 26:24 The Son of man goes, as it has been written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mt 26:31 Then Jesus said to them, All of you will be offended because of Me this night. For it is written, "I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."

Mr 1:2 as it is written in the Prophets, "Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You.

Mr 7:6 But He answered and said to them, Well has Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, "This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.

Mr 9:13 But I say to you that Elijah has indeed come, and they have done to him whatever they desired, as it is written of him.

Mr 11:17 And He taught, saying to them, Is it not written, "My house shall be called the house of prayer for all nations?" But you have made it a den of thieves.

Mr 14:21 The Son of man indeed goes, as it has been written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It were good for that man if he had never been born.

Mr 14:27 And Jesus said to them, All of you will be offended because of Me this night. For it is written, "I will smite the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered."

Lu 2:23 (as it is written in the Law of the Lord, Every male that opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord)

Lu 3:4 as it is written in the book of the words of Isaiah the prophet, saying, "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, prepare the way of the Lord, make His paths straight.

Lu 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written that "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God."

Lu 4:8 And Jesus answered and said to him, Get behind me, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only shall you serve."

Lu 4:10 For it is written, "He shall give His angels charge over You, to keep You;

Lu 7:27 This is he of whom it is written, "Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who shall prepare Your way before You."

Lu 10:26 He said to him, What is written in the law? How do you read it?

Lu 19:46 saying to them, It is written, "My house is a house of prayer," but you have made it a den of thieves.

Lu 24:46 And He said to them, So it is written, and so it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

Joh 6:31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert, as it is written, "He gave them bread from Heaven to eat."

Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, "And they shall all be taught of God." Therefore everyone who hears and learns from the Father comes to Me.

Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law that the testimony of two men is true.

Joh 12:14 And finding an ass colt, Jesus sat on it; as it is written,

The prophecies that are fulfilled via Jesus Christ are also confirmation that it is in fact the very word of God.

The original manuscripts only have 1 unique scripture. What you are trying to say is that because there are different translations of the Bible, that means that there is more than 1 Bible. Not true. There are the manuscripts in the original languages which there is no difference exept for minor spelling changes, punctuation differences, ect. that do not change doctrine. Jesus was a great man alright! He was and is God in the flesh as His word says.

First of all the only Bible Jesus had was the OT. . I find the Bible intereesting and loaded with wisdom but it is no a reference to history. It is a religious book. The final arbiter would be God if you so believe. Like I've said before the Bible is an interpretation of an interpretation based on the limited very ancient knowledge. I find it hard to believe that any one would think the Bible is accurate history. It has beren shown that it is not. It is nothing more than the age old desire for security where there is none.

If the Bible can affirm itself than so can I. I'

m God because I say so. Now obey. LOL

Ted;1505498 wrote: If the Bible can affirm itself than so can I. I'

m God because I say so. Now obey. LOL


You do realize that the Bible is not just one book right? These books were not written by just one man right? 40 men lived in different parts of the world over a 1600 year period from different walks of life many of them didn't have access to the others writings and yet it fits together as if written by one man. It contains hundreds of prophecies of Jesus Christ, many of which were fulfilled in Jesus Christ's first coming and it's undeniably the Word of God.

Ted;1505496 wrote: First of all the only Bible Jesus had was the OT. . I find the Bible intereesting and loaded with wisdom but it is no a reference to history. It is a religious book. The final arbiter would be God if you so believe. Like I've said before the Bible is an interpretation of an interpretation based on the limited very ancient knowledge. I find it hard to believe that any one would think the Bible is accurate history. It has beren shown that it is not. It is nothing more than the age old desire for security where there is none.


It is a historical book about how God created man, man fell, man's need for a Savior and God sending His only Son to save man from his sins. There is a mountain of evidence backing up the historical timeline of the Bible.

From creationscience.com

On 12 November 2014, the European Space Agency’s Rosetta spacecraft landed instruments on Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko—a comet that is 72%–74% empty space. This was the first successful landing on a comet. Among the many discoveries were sixteen organic compounds.

Some will say that these organic compounds were precursors to life on Earth. Neglected is the more likely alternative: these compounds were fragments of organisms living on Earth that were destroyed in some cataclysm. If you saw a large pile of bricks mixed with steel, tubes, glass, wire, and insulation, would you conclude that a building was evolving or that a building had been destroyed?

Finding so many complex organic compounds on such a small body in space is unprecedented. On rare occasions an organic compound (a molecule containing carbon atoms in rings or long chains with such elements as hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen attached) might be found near a distant star. Comet 67P contained sixteen complex organic compounds! They, and especially the fifty samples of the amino acid (glycine) that were found, obviously came from life.

Molecular Oxygen (O2). Comet 67P’s atmosphere also contained molecular oxygen (O2)—two oxygen atoms linked together. Scientists were stunned! O2 should not have been there, because O2 should not be in space52 and it readily breaks apart and reacts with other chemicals to form compounds such as water, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide. When it reacts with itself, it forms ozone (O3). No ozone was on 67P.

Molecular oxygen is what we breathe on Earth and is relatively rare except on earth. Earth’s surface waters are saturated with dissolved molecular oxygen.

The amount of O2 in 67P’s atmosphere was strongly correlated with the amount of water vapor in the comet’s atmosphere; the more water vapor that escaped from inside the comet as it warmed during the comet’s daytime and as it approached the Sun, the more O2 entered 67P’s atmosphere. Therefore, molecular oxygen was already dissolved in the water ice when the comet formed.

O2 was incorporated into the nucleus during the comet’s formation, ... Current Solar System formation models do not predict conditions that would allow this to occur.53

This explains why O2 did not have a chance to combine with hydrogen, carbon, or 67P’s complex organic compounds to form water, carbon dioxide, or carbon monoxide. It also tells us that the ice particles had to merge gently when the comet formed.

Comet 67P must have been put together gently, [Andre] Bieler says; otherwise the ice-coated grains that make up its bulk would have been heated and the oxygen removed.54

If comets formed billions of years ago, how could that O2 remain locked up in ice for all that time—through the formation of the solar system and comets, after innumerable impacts (from rocks to photons), and after millions of passes by the Sun? Kathrin Altwegg of the University of Bern, who coauthored this surprising report in the journal Nature admitted, “We never thought that oxygen could ‘survive’ for billions of years. 55 [Correct. Molecular oxygen could not survive for billions of years in outer space. W.B.]

If comets brought the chemicals for life to Earth, why didn’t the O2 gobble up those chemicals long before they reached Earth? We all know what O2 does to dead bodies.

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Comet Composition

Xfrod that is your belief and you are free to have it. Now the best recognizedbiblical sholrs isagree.. These men are recognized in academic circles as among the best: D. Crossan, M. Bord, Harvy Cox, Bart Ehrmann,Michael Goulder and a host of others.The desire to have the Bible totally 100%%% accurate is the age old desire to havePositive security when in fact such security is unachievable. Of course snakes do not talk and never have. There is not one shred of archaeological evidence for the exodus as wri8tten in the Bible, Archaeologists havve shown that the walls of Jerticho were down manyd years bec=vore Joshua ever app0eared on the scene, Corpses do not rise of of their graves and walk around.. All of a sudden the miracles ceased to come forth as if God decided we knew all we needed, Epilepsy is not caused by demon possession but they didn't know much about human anatory or human actions. The supernaturalism is absurd.

Ted;1505686 wrote: Xfrod that is your belief and you are free to have it. Now the best recognizedbiblical sholrs isagree.. These men are recognized in academic circles as among the best: D. Crossan, M. Bord, Harvy Cox, Bart Ehrmann,Michael Goulder and a host of others.The desire to have the Bible totally 100%%% accurate is the age old desire to havePositive security when in fact such security is unachievable. Of course snakes do not talk and never have. There is not one shred of archaeological evidence for the exodus as wri8tten in the Bible, Archaeologists havve shown that the walls of Jerticho were down manyd years bec=vore Joshua ever app0eared on the scene, Corpses do not rise of of their graves and walk around.. All of a sudden the miracles ceased to come forth as if God decided we knew all we needed, Epilepsy is not caused by demon possession but they didn't know much about human anatory or human actions. The supernaturalism is absurd.


There is lots of evidence for exodus. Who told you that some liberal non believing so called professor? Here is some right here: Chariots in Red Sea: ‘Irrefutable evidence’

There is lots of evidence for exodus. Who told you that some liberal non believing so called professor? Here is some right here: Chariots in Red Sea: ‘Irrefutable evidence’

http://www.wnd.com/2012/06/chariots-in- ... -evidence/

recovering conservative;1339320 wrote: Part of my youth was spent in the most evangelical of all religious sects -- Jehovah's Witnesses -- everybody has to go out knocking on doors and trying to convert people to their religion at least once a week, to be a member in good standing. Some just go through the motions (I certainly did as a young teenager); but many believe that they are trying to save people before Armageddon strikes.....which was supposed to be sometime after 1975.....and I guess that's why they won't set dates for the end times anymore!


Well, that would have been a very noble thing except for the fact that JW is a cult that twists up God's word and teaches heresies.

littleCJelkton;1347395 wrote: hopefully Nothing.


That wasn't very nice.

xfrod pleased show us the evidence. The archaeologists who are recognized as such have spent much time looking for evidence and have found absolutely nothing to indicat such a large movement. In fact the Exodus may relate to the expulsion of the HYKsos from the nile delta. At the point where they crossed the Red sea is some 200 miles across and that would take such a large crowd 4 to 6 days to cross at a minimum. Spong, Robinson, Drossan,. Borg.

Just looked at that link xfrod provided. What nonsense and wishful thinking. The fundamentalists are spreading false information. The have tried to hijack the Christian faith. Heresy. A total lack of understanding. midrash. But hey I can use the Bible to support warcrimes just read Numbers 31. And that is supposedly from the God who said we should not murder let along create war crimes.

The OP of this thread leads me to ask where is this heaven??

Ted;1505761 wrote: xfrod pleased show us the evidence. The archaeologists who are recognized as such have spent much time looking for evidence and have found absolutely nothing to indicat such a large movement. In fact the Exodus may relate to the expulsion of the HYKsos from the nile delta. At the point where they crossed the Red sea is some 200 miles across and that would take such a large crowd 4 to 6 days to cross at a minimum. Spong, Robinson, Drossan,. Borg.


You didn't read the article I posted.

Ted;1505763 wrote: Just looked at that link xfrod provided. What nonsense and wishful thinking. The fundamentalists are spreading false information. The have tried to hijack the Christian faith. Heresy. A total lack of understanding. midrash. But hey I can use the Bible to support warcrimes just read Numbers 31. And that is supposedly from the God who said we should not murder let along create war crimes.


So, then finding the chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea is somehow not evidence. Are those photographs not evidence too?

I skimmed your article and find it spurious. It is myth not history.l

I asked a question yesterday. Where is this heaven some talk about???? Still no answer.

I read a bit more of that article but not all of it. thed wording is "possible . . . ancient" That is no conclusive evidence of anything. If such objects are there, that if IF they could have been from a passing boat or something else. The real key is Biblicaql Enthusiasts. The have a vested interest intheir so called research. One can research to find the truth or one can research and try to make their findings fit their thinking. But hey if one wants to believe that garbage one is entitled to do so.