ShawnG;510928 wrote: well, now you did it koan, he'll be here for another week now!
:o :wah:
eta: I had time on my hands that needed wasting. I'm about to take up knitting again.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
koan;510924 wrote: good grief but this is tedious. at least I've given it a shot:
What is lacking here is a clear definition of what an ascetic is.
A lifestyle pursuing spiritual disciplines, including self-denial like fasting and celibacy, in order to strengthen the spiritual life. Purifying the body is seen as essential for drawing closer to God, especially in times of crisis (like the expected return of Christ). Ascetics tend to separate themselves from society, either as solitaries or in communities.
gbgm-umc.org/umw/corinthians/glossary.stm
deliberate self denial of bodily pleasures, usually food and sex.
faculty.juniata.edu/tuten/islamic/glossary.html
The belief that one can attain to a high intellectual or spiritual level through solitude, mortification of the flesh, and devotional contemplation
www.innvista.com/culture/religion/diction.htm
the doctrine that through renunciation of worldly pleasures it is possible to achieve a high spiritual or intellectual state
austerity: the trait of great self-denial (especially refraining from worldly pleasures)
rigorous self-denial and active self-restraint
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Asceticism has appeared in both religious and secular settings. The ancient Hebrew sects fasted in order to experience the Holy. The early Greeks undertook a regimen of severe physical discipline to prepare for battle. Stoic philosophers disciplined their will against a life of sensual pleasure to attain spiritual goals. Christian monks eschewed the comforts of the world for the solitude of the desert. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
using an extreme example of an ascetic is rather like using Bin Laden as an example of what Muslims are like. Prophets throughout time, back to Moses but including many others outside of Christianity, have told people to only take what they need and have advised against materialism right up to the present day. We live in a consumer society that needs people to indulge in hoarding and self gratification. The path back is so distant that it does inspire some awe towards those that are able to break the chains of our modern, capitalist training. As far as sexual denial goes, I think it is easily shown that by refraining from sexual activity gives a person greater stores of energy for other endeavours. How far a person takes their withdrawal from the world is dependent on how much they believe it will contribute to what they want to achieve. What you desire is entirely specific to your own idiosyncrasies. If you don't desire spiritual achievement then it may well seem like folly. Likewise, your desires seem like folly to the ascetic.
This simply isn't true. If people surround a pillar or cave where an ascetic has chosen to station themselves it is not of the ascetics devising. If they undermine feelings of well being then I don't think the well being existed in the first place. A person at peace with themselves can't be undermined by something so simple. Look around at modern culture. People walk about expressing themselves in every way imaginable. That is their civil right. What you choose to look at, think about or otherwise pay attention to is entirely at your own discrimination.
So first the ascetic is receiving fear and wonder, now he is receiving pity. Would you make up your mind?
I watch athletes performing and do not feel poorly because I can't walk a tight rope or qualify for an Olympic team. Again, how one experiences witnessing an ascetic is entirely the subjective experience of the observer. It is a reflection of the observer's own comfort or lack of comfort with themselves.
I agree that religion is sought to relieve pain of many types. It has provided many people with comfort that they have been unable to find elsewhere. I don't see what is wrong with that. I've read a lot of religious text and none of them have promised me vengeance. Perhaps one of the things you are noticing is what Chogyam Trungpa speaks of in a book called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism wherein a spiritual seeker tries to be more spiritual than anyone else and thus gets caught in a trap of the ego. It's something that happens but it is a trap not a goal.
The next bit from the OP deals with the methods Christianity employs to gain power. You suggest catering to weakness. I think it was based on instilling fear. It's a big enough argument to warrant a separate post. You are not original in the concept that Christianity has been organised by power hungry maniacs. Including all those who find use for the words of the bible is like blaming all Americans for George Bush.
The main problem with your understanding of asceticism, koan, is that it is too superficial. The fact that your analysis of asceticism is lacking in depth shows that you are naive about this form of behaviour and have very little insight into it. But I won't hold that against you because asceticism is a highly complex and multi-layered phenomenon and the motivations which underpin it run extremely deep.
You talk about various kinds of asceticism in your post. But let's try to keep things simple for the moment, shall we? Let's just focus here on the kind of religious asceticism I discussed in the OP - namely, Christian asceticism. Now, if you want to know what this kind of asceticism is really about then you have to take a rather depressing journey into the heart and mind of the Christian who practises it: in effect, you have to journey through the slums of his personality and far beyond them into the swamplands of his 'soul'. To give you a clearer picture of what is involved in understanding the Christian ascetic, koan, let me rephrase a paragraph for you which I wrote elsewhere in this forum (and, indeed, in a number of other forums). The following paragraph:
To understand the Christian ascetic in more than a superficial way - that is, to know what he is at bottom - one must possess huge, powerful lungs in order to dive down to the psychological depths where the more complex truths about him are to be found. No sooner has one done this, no sooner has one penetrated into the very 'soul' of the Christian ascetic, than one begins to feel that one has entered a fetid chamber of dripping anxiety in which obscene and detestable impulses abound. Here, at the innermost core of the Christian ascetic's being where the light never reaches, one has a palpable sense of dangerous, gelatinous things quivering and throbbing shamelessly in the darkness.
Now, before I show you how Christian asceticism is rooted in the most murky, squalid and primitive region of the Christian's psyche you must excuse me for a while, koan. Because I have to devote some time and effort to working on chapter 329 of my autobiography. I wrote the opening sentences of that chapter this morning. Would you like to read them? Very well then. Here they are....
Since the beginning of time only seven men have appeared on this earth who have understood the Secret of Woman. I am one of them. In consequence of my gaining knowledge of this Secret I have become - as did those other six men - the most miserable and wretched of God's creatures. Indeed, so miserable and wretched have I become that barely an hour passes when I do not pray for death (Oh why does it drag its feet! Why must it dither so long!). For when death comes it shall be a blessed release from the most awful and hellish Secret a man can ever know - the Secret of Woman.
What is lacking here is a clear definition of what an ascetic is.
A lifestyle pursuing spiritual disciplines, including self-denial like fasting and celibacy, in order to strengthen the spiritual life. Purifying the body is seen as essential for drawing closer to God, especially in times of crisis (like the expected return of Christ). Ascetics tend to separate themselves from society, either as solitaries or in communities.
gbgm-umc.org/umw/corinthians/glossary.stm
deliberate self denial of bodily pleasures, usually food and sex.
faculty.juniata.edu/tuten/islamic/glossary.html
The belief that one can attain to a high intellectual or spiritual level through solitude, mortification of the flesh, and devotional contemplation
www.innvista.com/culture/religion/diction.htm
the doctrine that through renunciation of worldly pleasures it is possible to achieve a high spiritual or intellectual state
austerity: the trait of great self-denial (especially refraining from worldly pleasures)
rigorous self-denial and active self-restraint
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Asceticism has appeared in both religious and secular settings. The ancient Hebrew sects fasted in order to experience the Holy. The early Greeks undertook a regimen of severe physical discipline to prepare for battle. Stoic philosophers disciplined their will against a life of sensual pleasure to attain spiritual goals. Christian monks eschewed the comforts of the world for the solitude of the desert. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism
using an extreme example of an ascetic is rather like using Bin Laden as an example of what Muslims are like. Prophets throughout time, back to Moses but including many others outside of Christianity, have told people to only take what they need and have advised against materialism right up to the present day. We live in a consumer society that needs people to indulge in hoarding and self gratification. The path back is so distant that it does inspire some awe towards those that are able to break the chains of our modern, capitalist training. As far as sexual denial goes, I think it is easily shown that by refraining from sexual activity gives a person greater stores of energy for other endeavours. How far a person takes their withdrawal from the world is dependent on how much they believe it will contribute to what they want to achieve. What you desire is entirely specific to your own idiosyncrasies. If you don't desire spiritual achievement then it may well seem like folly. Likewise, your desires seem like folly to the ascetic.
This simply isn't true. If people surround a pillar or cave where an ascetic has chosen to station themselves it is not of the ascetics devising. If they undermine feelings of well being then I don't think the well being existed in the first place. A person at peace with themselves can't be undermined by something so simple. Look around at modern culture. People walk about expressing themselves in every way imaginable. That is their civil right. What you choose to look at, think about or otherwise pay attention to is entirely at your own discrimination.
So first the ascetic is receiving fear and wonder, now he is receiving pity. Would you make up your mind?
I watch athletes performing and do not feel poorly because I can't walk a tight rope or qualify for an Olympic team. Again, how one experiences witnessing an ascetic is entirely the subjective experience of the observer. It is a reflection of the observer's own comfort or lack of comfort with themselves.
I agree that religion is sought to relieve pain of many types. It has provided many people with comfort that they have been unable to find elsewhere. I don't see what is wrong with that. I've read a lot of religious text and none of them have promised me vengeance. Perhaps one of the things you are noticing is what Chogyam Trungpa speaks of in a book called Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism wherein a spiritual seeker tries to be more spiritual than anyone else and thus gets caught in a trap of the ego. It's something that happens but it is a trap not a goal.
The next bit from the OP deals with the methods Christianity employs to gain power. You suggest catering to weakness. I think it was based on instilling fear. It's a big enough argument to warrant a separate post. You are not original in the concept that Christianity has been organised by power hungry maniacs. Including all those who find use for the words of the bible is like blaming all Americans for George Bush.
The main problem with your understanding of asceticism, koan, is that it is too superficial. The fact that your analysis of asceticism is lacking in depth shows that you are naive about this form of behaviour and have very little insight into it. But I won't hold that against you because asceticism is a highly complex and multi-layered phenomenon and the motivations which underpin it run extremely deep.
You talk about various kinds of asceticism in your post. But let's try to keep things simple for the moment, shall we? Let's just focus here on the kind of religious asceticism I discussed in the OP - namely, Christian asceticism. Now, if you want to know what this kind of asceticism is really about then you have to take a rather depressing journey into the heart and mind of the Christian who practises it: in effect, you have to journey through the slums of his personality and far beyond them into the swamplands of his 'soul'. To give you a clearer picture of what is involved in understanding the Christian ascetic, koan, let me rephrase a paragraph for you which I wrote elsewhere in this forum (and, indeed, in a number of other forums). The following paragraph:
To understand the Christian ascetic in more than a superficial way - that is, to know what he is at bottom - one must possess huge, powerful lungs in order to dive down to the psychological depths where the more complex truths about him are to be found. No sooner has one done this, no sooner has one penetrated into the very 'soul' of the Christian ascetic, than one begins to feel that one has entered a fetid chamber of dripping anxiety in which obscene and detestable impulses abound. Here, at the innermost core of the Christian ascetic's being where the light never reaches, one has a palpable sense of dangerous, gelatinous things quivering and throbbing shamelessly in the darkness.
Now, before I show you how Christian asceticism is rooted in the most murky, squalid and primitive region of the Christian's psyche you must excuse me for a while, koan. Because I have to devote some time and effort to working on chapter 329 of my autobiography. I wrote the opening sentences of that chapter this morning. Would you like to read them? Very well then. Here they are....
Since the beginning of time only seven men have appeared on this earth who have understood the Secret of Woman. I am one of them. In consequence of my gaining knowledge of this Secret I have become - as did those other six men - the most miserable and wretched of God's creatures. Indeed, so miserable and wretched have I become that barely an hour passes when I do not pray for death (Oh why does it drag its feet! Why must it dither so long!). For when death comes it shall be a blessed release from the most awful and hellish Secret a man can ever know - the Secret of Woman.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Because you select a narrow minded vision of a very broad concept you then deem the rest of the world superficial? Nice one.
Here's another shocker for you: you are woman too. We all have masculine and feminine inside of us. Maybe if you make peace with your feminine side you'll lose a little of your wretched personality.
Here's another shocker for you: you are woman too. We all have masculine and feminine inside of us. Maybe if you make peace with your feminine side you'll lose a little of your wretched personality.
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
koan;510934 wrote: I'm about to take up knitting again.
That's wonderful, koan! What are you thinking of knitting for me? Let me guess - a set of pyjamas?
That's wonderful, koan! What are you thinking of knitting for me? Let me guess - a set of pyjamas?
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;511704 wrote: That's wonderful, koan! What are you thinking of knitting for me? Let me guess - a set of pyjamas?
See post 104
See post 104
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
The main problem with your understanding of asceticism, koan, is that it is too superficial. The fact that your analysis of asceticism is lacking in depth shows that you are naive about this form of behaviour and have very little insight into it. But I won't hold that against you because asceticism is a highly complex and multi-layered phenomenon and the motivations which underpin it run extremely deep.
yet you try to portay it as simple and shallow. you cannot logically portray something as complex and multi layered, and subsequently establish simple motivation. your own points undermine your entire theory. That's a problem, and you still haven't addressed the fundamental illogic of the straw man argument. the minute you mention "the Christian Ascetic" as a concept, you show that you are inventing an effigy, not rooted in reality, but in your own mind. your subsequent immolation of that effigy is not a burning of any real person, only your own predjudices. that's not insight, or logical analysis.
You talk about various kinds of asceticism in your post. But let's try to keep things simple for the moment, shall we? Let's just focus here on the kind of religious asceticism I discussed in the OP - namely, Christian asceticism. Now, if you want to know what this kind of asceticism is really about then you have to take a rather depressing journey into the heart and mind of the Christian who practises it: in effect, you have to journey through the slums of his personality and far beyond them into the swamplands of his 'soul'.
for the first, you have to establish that there is indeed a difference between christian asceticism, and others. You have not done this, and until you do there is no logical reason to separate them. make a case that is not rhetorical in nature, and I'll happily listen.
For the second point, you allude to taking a terrible journey, you use words like slum and swamplands without explaination. which are loaded rhetorical words which mean nothing. have you made that journey? how did you do that? Anybody can read Nietzche, and spew it back. That's not argument, and nietzche himself lived far from his own ideal.
Now, before I show you how Christian asceticism is rooted in the most murky, squalid and primitive region of the Christian's psyche
what's the delay? looking up some pithy quotes from "beyond Good and Evil" and "the Antichrist"?
Since the beginning of time only seven men have appeared on this earth who have understood the Secret of Woman. I am one of them. In consequence of my gaining knowledge of this Secret I have become - as did those other six men - the most miserable and wretched of God's creatures. Indeed, so miserable and wretched have I become that barely an hour passes when I do not pray for death (Oh why does it drag its feet! Why must it dither so long!). For when death comes it shall be a blessed release from the most awful and hellish Secret a man can ever know - the Secret of Woman.
You truly need help, dude. Lots of us know the secret of Woman. You are the sad soul who has learned the secret of Woman, without knowing the secret of yourself. THAT's your issue.
yet you try to portay it as simple and shallow. you cannot logically portray something as complex and multi layered, and subsequently establish simple motivation. your own points undermine your entire theory. That's a problem, and you still haven't addressed the fundamental illogic of the straw man argument. the minute you mention "the Christian Ascetic" as a concept, you show that you are inventing an effigy, not rooted in reality, but in your own mind. your subsequent immolation of that effigy is not a burning of any real person, only your own predjudices. that's not insight, or logical analysis.
You talk about various kinds of asceticism in your post. But let's try to keep things simple for the moment, shall we? Let's just focus here on the kind of religious asceticism I discussed in the OP - namely, Christian asceticism. Now, if you want to know what this kind of asceticism is really about then you have to take a rather depressing journey into the heart and mind of the Christian who practises it: in effect, you have to journey through the slums of his personality and far beyond them into the swamplands of his 'soul'.
for the first, you have to establish that there is indeed a difference between christian asceticism, and others. You have not done this, and until you do there is no logical reason to separate them. make a case that is not rhetorical in nature, and I'll happily listen.
For the second point, you allude to taking a terrible journey, you use words like slum and swamplands without explaination. which are loaded rhetorical words which mean nothing. have you made that journey? how did you do that? Anybody can read Nietzche, and spew it back. That's not argument, and nietzche himself lived far from his own ideal.
Now, before I show you how Christian asceticism is rooted in the most murky, squalid and primitive region of the Christian's psyche
what's the delay? looking up some pithy quotes from "beyond Good and Evil" and "the Antichrist"?
Since the beginning of time only seven men have appeared on this earth who have understood the Secret of Woman. I am one of them. In consequence of my gaining knowledge of this Secret I have become - as did those other six men - the most miserable and wretched of God's creatures. Indeed, so miserable and wretched have I become that barely an hour passes when I do not pray for death (Oh why does it drag its feet! Why must it dither so long!). For when death comes it shall be a blessed release from the most awful and hellish Secret a man can ever know - the Secret of Woman.
You truly need help, dude. Lots of us know the secret of Woman. You are the sad soul who has learned the secret of Woman, without knowing the secret of yourself. THAT's your issue.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;512140 wrote: You said, "dude" 
I say dude a lot, I just don't usually write it.
I also said "pithy" and "immolation"
I say dude a lot, I just don't usually write it.
I also said "pithy" and "immolation"
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Accountable
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;511675 wrote: Indeed, so miserable and wretched have I become that barely an hour passes when I do not pray for death (Oh why does it drag its feet! Why must it dither so long!). For when death comes it shall be a blessed release ...
Ever heard of 'free will'?
Ever heard of 'free will'?
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG wrote: Anybody can read Nietzche
Does this include people who can't even spell the philosopher's name, ShawnG?
:yh_rotfl
The correct spelling of the philosopher's name is Nietzsche.
Does this include people who can't even spell the philosopher's name, ShawnG?
:yh_rotfl
The correct spelling of the philosopher's name is Nietzsche.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512315 wrote: The correct spelling of the philosopher's name is Nietzsche.Bitch of a language all round, German, isn't it. I can never even manage Schicklgruber without checking it first.
What counts isn't on-the-fly spelling so much as making sense.
What counts isn't on-the-fly spelling so much as making sense.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
spot;512316 wrote: Bitch of a language all round, German, isn't it.
Bitch of a language all round, spot? Surely not for ShawnG. I mean, I'm certain that ShawnG reads the German philosopher in his original tongue.
:yh_rotfl
Incidentally, spot: notice that there isn't a question mark at the end of your sentence:
Bitch of a language all round, German, isn't it.
Which means, of course, that you don't really believe what you say in your defense of ShawnG.
Bitch of a language all round, spot? Surely not for ShawnG. I mean, I'm certain that ShawnG reads the German philosopher in his original tongue.
:yh_rotfl
Incidentally, spot: notice that there isn't a question mark at the end of your sentence:
Bitch of a language all round, German, isn't it.
Which means, of course, that you don't really believe what you say in your defense of ShawnG.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512323 wrote: Incidentally, spot: notice that there isn't a question mark at the end of your sentenceThat's because it was a statement and not a question. Why are you such an unpalatable misogynist? That's a question. It's not a matter of women, lots of us get on fine with women, women aren't the problem at all when it comes to misogyny.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;512196 wrote: He said "pithy" Beavis
FIRE!!!!
FIRE!!!!
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512315 wrote: Does this include people who can't even spell the philosopher's name, ShawnG?
:yh_rotfl
The correct spelling of the philosopher's name is Nietzsche.
Notice that there are no refutations to any of my points, no defense of his misinterpretation on human history and belief, no answer to the charge that this man's "original thought" consists entirely of paraphrasing a philosopher that's been dead more than a hundred years. The last refuge of a losing argument is to point out mistakes in spelling or grammar. Another Illogical, and may I say, infantile tactic on the part of Mr. G.
Apologies extended to the moldering corpse of Mr. Nietzsche. May the crazy, hateful bastard rest in peace.
:yh_rotfl
The correct spelling of the philosopher's name is Nietzsche.
Notice that there are no refutations to any of my points, no defense of his misinterpretation on human history and belief, no answer to the charge that this man's "original thought" consists entirely of paraphrasing a philosopher that's been dead more than a hundred years. The last refuge of a losing argument is to point out mistakes in spelling or grammar. Another Illogical, and may I say, infantile tactic on the part of Mr. G.
Apologies extended to the moldering corpse of Mr. Nietzsche. May the crazy, hateful bastard rest in peace.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG;512628 wrote:
Apologies extended to the moldering corpse of Mr. Nietzsche. May the crazy, hateful bastard rest in peace.
:wah:
He is considered by many to have been a misogynist too. I can see why G feels a bond with him.
Apologies extended to the moldering corpse of Mr. Nietzsche. May the crazy, hateful bastard rest in peace.
:wah:
He is considered by many to have been a misogynist too. I can see why G feels a bond with him.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
These are priceless. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Accountable;512303 wrote: Ever heard of 'free will'?
Now, don't you go troubling your head about 'free will', Accountable. Because it's a BIG, BIG question. You just concentrate on trying to finish your Walker, Texas Ranger jigsaw puzzle (4 pieces).
Now, don't you go troubling your head about 'free will', Accountable. Because it's a BIG, BIG question. You just concentrate on trying to finish your Walker, Texas Ranger jigsaw puzzle (4 pieces).
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG;512628 wrote: May the crazy, hateful bastard rest in peace.
Interesting remark.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
Interesting remark.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512813 wrote: Interesting remark.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
Certainly not as much as his did, and yours seems to be. And you well know that my name is Shawn.
And there's no denying that he is currently a moldering corpse, or that he went insane, spending the last ten years of his life being cared for by his nationalist and anti-semitic sister, there is some ambiguity as to the amount and ultimate direction of his hatred, but not that it was ever-present in much of his later writings. He was not in fact a bastard by actual definition, I used that term in the coloquial form. He had a tremendous problem keeping friends and was unable to find any woman that could stand him for more than ten minutes. moreover he lived his life in isolation, sickness and weakness in opposition to his own ideals, supported by his mother and sister, a far cry from the Ubermensch. He worte interesting things, and he wasn't stupid, but absolutely nothing that he proposed should be taken entirely of its own accord.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
Certainly not as much as his did, and yours seems to be. And you well know that my name is Shawn.
And there's no denying that he is currently a moldering corpse, or that he went insane, spending the last ten years of his life being cared for by his nationalist and anti-semitic sister, there is some ambiguity as to the amount and ultimate direction of his hatred, but not that it was ever-present in much of his later writings. He was not in fact a bastard by actual definition, I used that term in the coloquial form. He had a tremendous problem keeping friends and was unable to find any woman that could stand him for more than ten minutes. moreover he lived his life in isolation, sickness and weakness in opposition to his own ideals, supported by his mother and sister, a far cry from the Ubermensch. He worte interesting things, and he wasn't stupid, but absolutely nothing that he proposed should be taken entirely of its own accord.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512813 wrote: Interesting remark.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
And you will all again note, a complete silence on the salient points, just a reference to my mental faculties or supposed lack thereof.
I think your mask of sanity is slipping, Christian.
And you will all again note, a complete silence on the salient points, just a reference to my mental faculties or supposed lack thereof.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Noted. :-6
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;512140 wrote: You said, "dude"
Yes, Diuretic. I found that description of me by ShawnG very interesting as well. Just as I have found some of Shawn G's other descriptions of me very interesting.
Let me give you a few examples:
ShawnG wrote: the mighty G[laswegian]
ShawnG wrote: grandmaster G[laswegian]
ShawnG wrote: a worldly, strong, infinitely reasonable man
Yes, Diuretic. I have been somewhat...er...taken :yh_blush by these descriptions of me. I mean, one cannot help but notice a certain undercurrent beneath them, can one? An undercurrent which - as Oscar Wilde might say - 'dare not speak its name'. Who knows? - maybe at some murky subterranean level within himself ShawnG wants to knit a set of pyjamas for me as well.
Yes, Diuretic. I found that description of me by ShawnG very interesting as well. Just as I have found some of Shawn G's other descriptions of me very interesting.
Let me give you a few examples:
ShawnG wrote: the mighty G[laswegian]
ShawnG wrote: grandmaster G[laswegian]
ShawnG wrote: a worldly, strong, infinitely reasonable man
Yes, Diuretic. I have been somewhat...er...taken :yh_blush by these descriptions of me. I mean, one cannot help but notice a certain undercurrent beneath them, can one? An undercurrent which - as Oscar Wilde might say - 'dare not speak its name'. Who knows? - maybe at some murky subterranean level within himself ShawnG wants to knit a set of pyjamas for me as well.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512889 wrote:
Yes, Diuretic. I have been somewhat...er...taken :yh_blush by these descriptions of me. I mean, one cannot help but notice a certain undercurrent beneath them, can one? An undercurrent which - as Oscar Wilde might say - 'dare not speak its name'. Who knows? - maybe at some murky subterranean level within himself ShawnG wants to knit a set of pyjamas for me as well.
Dammit, you found me out... Here they are:
Yes, Diuretic. I have been somewhat...er...taken :yh_blush by these descriptions of me. I mean, one cannot help but notice a certain undercurrent beneath them, can one? An undercurrent which - as Oscar Wilde might say - 'dare not speak its name'. Who knows? - maybe at some murky subterranean level within himself ShawnG wants to knit a set of pyjamas for me as well.
Dammit, you found me out... Here they are:
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;512323 wrote:
:yh_rotfl
It bears repeating.
When you hear the laughter of Glaswegian do you ever wonder why there is so much pain in it? Why it often has the effect of causing tiny alarm bells to start ringing inside of you? Why it can make you solemn and reflective in the way that a great tragedy does? Why you feel a little saddened in its aftermath? Perhaps on witnessing this kind of laughter issuing from Glaswegian's mouth you have been so shocked by it that you have turned away from him, lowered your head and whispered to yourself: 'My God. The pain in that laughter! Doesn't he realise how awful it sounds?'
No reasonable person would blame you for wondering how Glaswegian can be blind to the pain in his own laughter given that the pain which fills it is so stark in nature, so blatant and unmistakable, so flagrant as to be nakedly obvious. This is why even though one finds Glaswegian's laughter excruciating one cannot help but be intrigued by it at the same time. This laughter is so anguished in tone, so forced in its delivery, so hysterical in its outburst that one involuntarily shrinks from it as if from an exploding boil. One feels acutely embarrassed for Glaswegian on hearing his pained and desperate laughter. Indeed, one is even moved at times to pity him because of it. That said, the pain in Glaswegian's laughter is so uniquely awful that it demands an explanation.
The reason why the pain in Glaswegian's laughter creates such a strong impression on rational individuals, and makes them prick up their ears whenever they hear it, is because it reveals more about Glaswegian's inner being in an instant than a very large book could ever do. What this laughter reveals about Glaswegian in such an immediate and striking way is that he is an individual who suffers greatly from himself: more precisely, that he is someone to whom something terrible has been done, something shameful, and that the person who has done this terrible and shameful thing to him is none other than himself. How do we know this? Because Glaswegian's laughter is a laughter which resonates with deep and unrelenting guilt. It is the tortured laughter born of an individual who cannot live with himself, an individual who recognises at some level of his being that he is disgraceful and contemptible, an object to be despised. This is why on hearing it the man of finer feelings and good taste immediately averts his eyes from its source.
:yh_rotfl
It bears repeating.
When you hear the laughter of Glaswegian do you ever wonder why there is so much pain in it? Why it often has the effect of causing tiny alarm bells to start ringing inside of you? Why it can make you solemn and reflective in the way that a great tragedy does? Why you feel a little saddened in its aftermath? Perhaps on witnessing this kind of laughter issuing from Glaswegian's mouth you have been so shocked by it that you have turned away from him, lowered your head and whispered to yourself: 'My God. The pain in that laughter! Doesn't he realise how awful it sounds?'
No reasonable person would blame you for wondering how Glaswegian can be blind to the pain in his own laughter given that the pain which fills it is so stark in nature, so blatant and unmistakable, so flagrant as to be nakedly obvious. This is why even though one finds Glaswegian's laughter excruciating one cannot help but be intrigued by it at the same time. This laughter is so anguished in tone, so forced in its delivery, so hysterical in its outburst that one involuntarily shrinks from it as if from an exploding boil. One feels acutely embarrassed for Glaswegian on hearing his pained and desperate laughter. Indeed, one is even moved at times to pity him because of it. That said, the pain in Glaswegian's laughter is so uniquely awful that it demands an explanation.
The reason why the pain in Glaswegian's laughter creates such a strong impression on rational individuals, and makes them prick up their ears whenever they hear it, is because it reveals more about Glaswegian's inner being in an instant than a very large book could ever do. What this laughter reveals about Glaswegian in such an immediate and striking way is that he is an individual who suffers greatly from himself: more precisely, that he is someone to whom something terrible has been done, something shameful, and that the person who has done this terrible and shameful thing to him is none other than himself. How do we know this? Because Glaswegian's laughter is a laughter which resonates with deep and unrelenting guilt. It is the tortured laughter born of an individual who cannot live with himself, an individual who recognises at some level of his being that he is disgraceful and contemptible, an object to be despised. This is why on hearing it the man of finer feelings and good taste immediately averts his eyes from its source.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;513467 wrote: Wasn't he the one that said something about not taking a pee into the abyss or you splash your boots?
Well, he said if you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you...
I like your version better
Well, he said if you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you...
I like your version better
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
D, I would like to formally apologize on behalf of all Americans that our cultural machine has somehow brought "Beavis and Butthead" to your part of the globe. (although I don't think you caught the "fire!" reference, so it might not be as bad as it seems) In the meantime if you've ever seen the cartoon "south park" let me know so I can call the state department.
I've had fun here, and barring any more outbursts from north of Hadrian's Wall, I would like to close with a song by the ultimate Thread-killers: Monty Python
Singing:
I...
...mmanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away--
Half a crate of whisky every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And René Descartes was a drunken fart.
'I drink, therefore I am.'
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker,
But a bugger when he's pissed.
I've had fun here, and barring any more outbursts from north of Hadrian's Wall, I would like to close with a song by the ultimate Thread-killers: Monty Python
Singing:
I...
...mmanuel Kant was a real pissant
Who was very rarely stable.
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.
David Hume could out-consume
Schopenhauer and Hegel,
And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed.
John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.
Plato, they say, could stick it away--
Half a crate of whisky every day.
Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Hobbes was fond of his dram,
And René Descartes was a drunken fart.
'I drink, therefore I am.'
Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker,
But a bugger when he's pissed.
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Glaswegian
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG;512938 wrote: Dammit, you found me out... Here they are:
It was good of you to provide me with a picture of the kind of pyjamas that you want to knit for me, ShawnG. I see that they are bondage pyjamas.
However, I can only see them from the waist upwards. So let me ask you a question about these pyjamas that you have in mind for me:
Are they crotchless?
It was good of you to provide me with a picture of the kind of pyjamas that you want to knit for me, ShawnG. I see that they are bondage pyjamas.
However, I can only see them from the waist upwards. So let me ask you a question about these pyjamas that you have in mind for me:
Are they crotchless?
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Glaswegian
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- Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:07 am
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
A SIMPLE TRUTH
The extreme emotional reactions against my view of Christian asceticism in this thread are essentially a defense against the painful knowledge that I am right.
~o0o~
Now that that simple truth has been established I'm starting to feel generous again. Yes, my friends, I feel the need to share a new thread with you....
The extreme emotional reactions against my view of Christian asceticism in this thread are essentially a defense against the painful knowledge that I am right.
~o0o~
Now that that simple truth has been established I'm starting to feel generous again. Yes, my friends, I feel the need to share a new thread with you....
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Glaswegian
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;515024 wrote: Did you know we named a stadium after you in Melbourne? Yep, it's called "The G". Good eh?
The citizens of Melbourne have such wonderful taste, Diuretic.
The citizens of Melbourne have such wonderful taste, Diuretic.
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Glaswegian;515022 wrote: A SIMPLE TRUTH
The extreme emotional reactions against my view of Christian asceticism in this thread are essentially a defense against the painful knowledge that I am right.
~o0o~
Now that that simple truth has been established I'm starting to feel generous again. Yes, my friends, I feel the need to share a new thread with you....
Sarcasm and derision are not extreme emotional reactions. In fact I challenge you to point out any of my arguments which could be considered emotional. I challenged the logical nature of your post, and you responded with charges of spelling errors, and an attempt to establish my sexual orientation. None of my objections to your lack of sound reasoning and logical arguing principles were even answered, let alone proven. I look forward to your next diatribe!
The extreme emotional reactions against my view of Christian asceticism in this thread are essentially a defense against the painful knowledge that I am right.
~o0o~
Now that that simple truth has been established I'm starting to feel generous again. Yes, my friends, I feel the need to share a new thread with you....
Sarcasm and derision are not extreme emotional reactions. In fact I challenge you to point out any of my arguments which could be considered emotional. I challenged the logical nature of your post, and you responded with charges of spelling errors, and an attempt to establish my sexual orientation. None of my objections to your lack of sound reasoning and logical arguing principles were even answered, let alone proven. I look forward to your next diatribe!
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG;515516 wrote: I look forward to your next diatribe!
That makes one of us. :wah:
That makes one of us. :wah:
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Yes, I'm talking about David Beckham himself! Ah but he failed, he failed, Melbourne stayed true!
Beckham played in the AFL Grand Final? Now that I would have to see, I'm not sure that Becks has the intestinal fortitude required to play your brand of "footy"
BTW I watch AFL whenever I can, which means "I'm drunk and still awake at 3:30 AM when it is televised here" I watched the grand final a few years ago, and it was a fantastic game. I don't remember the teams but it was a team that had won, like four years in a row, getting beat by the young upstarts. Great stuff
Two thing that should be huge in my country (but aren't) the AFL and the Bathurst 1000
Beckham played in the AFL Grand Final? Now that I would have to see, I'm not sure that Becks has the intestinal fortitude required to play your brand of "footy"
BTW I watch AFL whenever I can, which means "I'm drunk and still awake at 3:30 AM when it is televised here" I watched the grand final a few years ago, and it was a fantastic game. I don't remember the teams but it was a team that had won, like four years in a row, getting beat by the young upstarts. Great stuff
Two thing that should be huge in my country (but aren't) the AFL and the Bathurst 1000
Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
Diuretic;515555 wrote: Nah I was reaching a bit with Becks :wah:
There are a few Aussie Rules teams in the US, a sort of amatuer-amateur league thing. The LA Crows come to mind. Also over the 49th parallel there's a pretty healthy league in Vancouver. It's a great game, I love it but although the AFL Pty Ltd Inc Co commercially spectacular, dollar driven, hubris-ridden lot have pushed up the skills and polish in the game I miss the "old days" of inter-tribal warfare we used to call footy. Ah, we'll never see it again.
Bathurst, I'm not a rev-head but I work with one. He's a CAMS member and official and all the rest of it. We have the Clipsal 500 in Adelaide which everyone in the industry says is brilliant but which, being a street circuit (think Detroit GP style) is very different from the Mountain.
I'll have to see if there's anything around here. There are lots of Rugby Union clubs around if you look enough,(I played a little in college) but I've never seen Aussie rules.
I'm a huge gearhead, and I illegally download any V8 supercars races I can. (It's not on TV here) It's the best cross between NASCAR and F1 I've seen with the beautiful road circuits and the mean V8 cars (Ford and GM too...) I think I have last year's Clipsal around here somewhere...
There are a few Aussie Rules teams in the US, a sort of amatuer-amateur league thing. The LA Crows come to mind. Also over the 49th parallel there's a pretty healthy league in Vancouver. It's a great game, I love it but although the AFL Pty Ltd Inc Co commercially spectacular, dollar driven, hubris-ridden lot have pushed up the skills and polish in the game I miss the "old days" of inter-tribal warfare we used to call footy. Ah, we'll never see it again.
Bathurst, I'm not a rev-head but I work with one. He's a CAMS member and official and all the rest of it. We have the Clipsal 500 in Adelaide which everyone in the industry says is brilliant but which, being a street circuit (think Detroit GP style) is very different from the Mountain.
I'll have to see if there's anything around here. There are lots of Rugby Union clubs around if you look enough,(I played a little in college) but I've never seen Aussie rules.
I'm a huge gearhead, and I illegally download any V8 supercars races I can. (It's not on TV here) It's the best cross between NASCAR and F1 I've seen with the beautiful road circuits and the mean V8 cars (Ford and GM too...) I think I have last year's Clipsal around here somewhere...
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Glaswegian
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Christian Asceticism, Masochism and Power
ShawnG;515516 wrote: I look forward to your next diatribe!
Of course you do, ShawnG! And who could blame you? After all - they are excellent, aren't they? :yh_bigsmi
Of course you do, ShawnG! And who could blame you? After all - they are excellent, aren't they? :yh_bigsmi