Geronimo;779528 wrote: So better have 20 guys dancing once a year in a gay parade, and kissing each others, than one priest pedophile sitting in a church, raping kids on saturday, and preaching the word of God all sunday.
That is very true, but let us not sterotype Christians. There are phoneys in every crowd.
God Bless All (whether you want it or need it or not)!
Bobby
Attached files
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Geronimo;779529 wrote: that pick is super funny, the guy is drawning in the web.. :p :wah:
Yeah, I'd say he needs to pull the plug.:yh_laugh
Yeah, I'd say he needs to pull the plug.:yh_laugh
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
rjwould;779237 wrote: I don't understand why you highlighted those words in red..
Just for emphasis I guess!
Bobby
Just for emphasis I guess!
Bobby
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
The short answer to the op is "no". The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians subject them to.
Comments like atheists caused less deaths than the religious are simply contrary to history. More deaths have been caused by so called atheistic states than in all the religious wars in history.
Sin is that which separates us from the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Comments like atheists caused less deaths than the religious are simply contrary to history. More deaths have been caused by so called atheistic states than in all the religious wars in history.
Sin is that which separates us from the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
jester:-6
Not really sick just a great many errands to run and a few doctors to visit. Also went to the Imax theater in Victoria for two films. Imax is fantastic.
Thanks for asking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Not really sick just a great many errands to run and a few doctors to visit. Also went to the Imax theater in Victoria for two films. Imax is fantastic.
Thanks for asking.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Ted;780557 wrote: The short answer to the op is "no". The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians subject them to.
Sin is that which separates us from the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
The first statement sounds a little like stereotyping.
I do believe God created us male and female for the purpose and design to have heterosexual relationships. To go against God's design is a sin.
Romans 1
26. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
We are to love everyone even our enemies, but we should not love the sin.
This is not a popular stand, but I believe it is biblical
Bobby
Sin is that which separates us from the love of God and the love of our fellow man.
The first statement sounds a little like stereotyping.
I do believe God created us male and female for the purpose and design to have heterosexual relationships. To go against God's design is a sin.
Romans 1
26. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
We are to love everyone even our enemies, but we should not love the sin.
This is not a popular stand, but I believe it is biblical
Bobby
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
BH:-6
I stand by what I have said. I am formally trained in biblical translation, interpretation and history. I continue my studies at the Vancouver School of Theology.
Your view of the Bible is the result of the reformation and cannot be traced back to the early church of the apostles. The Bible is not a document of historical events but a midrashic writing which makes great use of metaphor. There are some kernels of history in the Bible but they are scattered throughout. Nonetheless it is a book that presents profound truths about God and man. If you wish to understand midrash I will explain further but have not desire to waste my time otherwise.
The Bible in fact present no sexual ethic whatsoever. Jesus himself never once commented on homosexuality.
Contrary to the comments of others it is now known that homosexuality is a given and not a choice. Thus it is a creation of God.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I stand by what I have said. I am formally trained in biblical translation, interpretation and history. I continue my studies at the Vancouver School of Theology.
Your view of the Bible is the result of the reformation and cannot be traced back to the early church of the apostles. The Bible is not a document of historical events but a midrashic writing which makes great use of metaphor. There are some kernels of history in the Bible but they are scattered throughout. Nonetheless it is a book that presents profound truths about God and man. If you wish to understand midrash I will explain further but have not desire to waste my time otherwise.
The Bible in fact present no sexual ethic whatsoever. Jesus himself never once commented on homosexuality.
Contrary to the comments of others it is now known that homosexuality is a given and not a choice. Thus it is a creation of God.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
jester:-6
I did visit a neurologist. Doctors thought I was having TIAs but he believes I am experiencing migraine auras without the headache. Apparently that can happen to 'older???' men. Now to be sure I have to have my head read. LOL. I know you will be hoping they are able to straighten out my thinking. LOL.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I did visit a neurologist. Doctors thought I was having TIAs but he believes I am experiencing migraine auras without the headache. Apparently that can happen to 'older???' men. Now to be sure I have to have my head read. LOL. I know you will be hoping they are able to straighten out my thinking. LOL.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Ted;780600 wrote: BH:-6
I stand by what I have said. I am formally trained in biblical translation, interpretation and history. I continue my studies at the Vancouver School of Theology.
Your view of the Bible is the result of the reformation and cannot be traced back to the early church of the apostles. The Bible is not a document of historical events but a midrashic writing which makes great use of metaphor. There are some kernels of history in the Bible but they are scattered throughout. Nonetheless it is a book that presents profound truths about God and man. If you wish to understand midrash I will explain further but have not desire to waste my time otherwise.
The Bible in fact present no sexual ethic whatsoever. Jesus himself never once commented on homosexuality.
Contrary to the comments of others it is now known that homosexuality is a given and not a choice. Thus it is a creation of God.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ted, I am trying to do my homework. I googled this, what's your take?
Sodom and Gomorrah as Metaphor
Israel S. Adler, Atty.
Kefar Sava
"Illicit sexual relations, as recounted in the story of Sodom in Genesis 19. The incident of the concubine from Gibeah (Judges 19) is compared to Sodom in its severity. The severity of the punishments meted out in both stories points clearly to the view the bible takes of such blatant deviations from proper intimate relations." entire article
Bobby
I stand by what I have said. I am formally trained in biblical translation, interpretation and history. I continue my studies at the Vancouver School of Theology.
Your view of the Bible is the result of the reformation and cannot be traced back to the early church of the apostles. The Bible is not a document of historical events but a midrashic writing which makes great use of metaphor. There are some kernels of history in the Bible but they are scattered throughout. Nonetheless it is a book that presents profound truths about God and man. If you wish to understand midrash I will explain further but have not desire to waste my time otherwise.
The Bible in fact present no sexual ethic whatsoever. Jesus himself never once commented on homosexuality.
Contrary to the comments of others it is now known that homosexuality is a given and not a choice. Thus it is a creation of God.
May the peace of Christ be with you.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Ted, I am trying to do my homework. I googled this, what's your take?
Sodom and Gomorrah as Metaphor
Israel S. Adler, Atty.
Kefar Sava
"Illicit sexual relations, as recounted in the story of Sodom in Genesis 19. The incident of the concubine from Gibeah (Judges 19) is compared to Sodom in its severity. The severity of the punishments meted out in both stories points clearly to the view the bible takes of such blatant deviations from proper intimate relations." entire article
Bobby
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
BH:-6
Some good points.
First of all the story of Sodom and Gemorrah is a myth. According to theologians it is not at all about sexual issues but about the poor treatment of visiting angels. To add to this you have Lot offering his daughters instead, clearly indicating that the visitors were to be protected at all costs even at the expense of one's own family. This is from God?
The story in judges is simply a repeat of the story in Genesis. Here once again the leading character offers his daughters instead.
I find the offering of one's daughters to be, to say the least, appalling.
Now, a reference to the Jewish Encyclopedia will show an interesting approach to sexuality. Many of the ancients had concubines and were not punished. Adultery was only something a woman could do for the most part. A married man could step out and enjoy a tryst with another woman so long as she was not married and not a virgin. This was considered OK.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 5&letter=A
JewishEncyclopedia.com - ADULTERY
The Bible is so inconsistent in any interpretation of a sexual image when compared to the actual practices of the early Hebrews. In Numbers 31 we see that the Hebrew soldiers are to kill all men, women and children except for the virgins which they can keep for themselves as long as they also give some to the temple. This is abhorrent. The woman had no choice. If she wasn't good enough she was simply kicked out. In those days a used woman was socially and outcast. God would promote this?
If anyone believes these came from God they do not know the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
Walter Wink is a respected scholar and theologian.
I will stand by my statement that the only sin in homosexuality is the abuse to which Christians subject them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Some good points.
First of all the story of Sodom and Gemorrah is a myth. According to theologians it is not at all about sexual issues but about the poor treatment of visiting angels. To add to this you have Lot offering his daughters instead, clearly indicating that the visitors were to be protected at all costs even at the expense of one's own family. This is from God?
The story in judges is simply a repeat of the story in Genesis. Here once again the leading character offers his daughters instead.
I find the offering of one's daughters to be, to say the least, appalling.
Now, a reference to the Jewish Encyclopedia will show an interesting approach to sexuality. Many of the ancients had concubines and were not punished. Adultery was only something a woman could do for the most part. A married man could step out and enjoy a tryst with another woman so long as she was not married and not a virgin. This was considered OK.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view. ... 5&letter=A
JewishEncyclopedia.com - ADULTERY
The Bible is so inconsistent in any interpretation of a sexual image when compared to the actual practices of the early Hebrews. In Numbers 31 we see that the Hebrew soldiers are to kill all men, women and children except for the virgins which they can keep for themselves as long as they also give some to the temple. This is abhorrent. The woman had no choice. If she wasn't good enough she was simply kicked out. In those days a used woman was socially and outcast. God would promote this?
If anyone believes these came from God they do not know the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
Walter Wink is a respected scholar and theologian.
I will stand by my statement that the only sin in homosexuality is the abuse to which Christians subject them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
BH:-6
Housework?! Shame on you. Hide your head. Now that is swearing. LOL
My wife pushes me there as well. Yuck. However, I do my share.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Housework?! Shame on you. Hide your head. Now that is swearing. LOL
My wife pushes me there as well. Yuck. However, I do my share.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Ted;786017 wrote: BH:-6
Housework?! Shame on you. Hide your head. Now that is swearing. LOL
My wife pushes me there as well. Yuck. However, I do my share.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Homework, studying to show myself approved. I am no where near as smart as some.
I am reading this now: http://www.christianadvice.net/homosexu ... Mauser.htm
Bobby
Housework?! Shame on you. Hide your head. Now that is swearing. LOL
My wife pushes me there as well. Yuck. However, I do my share.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Homework, studying to show myself approved. I am no where near as smart as some.
I am reading this now: http://www.christianadvice.net/homosexu ... Mauser.htm
Bobby
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
BH:-6
A quick glance tells me that the writer takes the literalist view of the Bible which I cannot in all honesty accept. The Bible is not in and of itself the word of God but becomes for Christians the word of God because God does speak to us through the very human words of the Bible. It becomes a sacred book because of the use we put it to not because of its authorship. The Bible is not a history book but a religious book written at a particular time for a particular group of people in a very foreign and ancient culture. It contains a few kernels of history but is written in an ancient style called midrash which makes extensive use of metaphor and symbolism. Even the translation of words poses a problem. For instance the words used in both the OT and the NT and translated into the word faith actually meant at the time of writing "trust" and not a believe in a particular body of doctrinal statements. This changes the meaning of a lot of verses in the Bible. There are profound truths in the Bible but they are presented for the most part in metaphor and symbolism.
His comment about virtual agreement . . . is rather spurious because it is only true of one group withing the Christian Community. Others hold the contrary view. In fact many scholarly theologians make a very clear statement that the Bible presents no sexual ethics at all.
The Bible does say in Leviticus that homosexual activity is an abomination. It says the same thing about eating shell fish or wearing clothes made of more than one kind of fiber. It also makes the eating or pork a sin. This is a clear example of picking and choosing.
To St. Paul who wrote only seven of the letters attributed to him. He makes negative comments about homosexuality but a closer reading shows that he was talking about 'straight' folks engaging in homosexual activity. He and others at the time had no understanding of true homosexuality. In addition Paul also tells women to wear hats in church, have long hair and to be quiet. Here once again we see picking and choosing which many deny but cannot escape the fact that is what they are doing.
Shalom
Ted:-6
A quick glance tells me that the writer takes the literalist view of the Bible which I cannot in all honesty accept. The Bible is not in and of itself the word of God but becomes for Christians the word of God because God does speak to us through the very human words of the Bible. It becomes a sacred book because of the use we put it to not because of its authorship. The Bible is not a history book but a religious book written at a particular time for a particular group of people in a very foreign and ancient culture. It contains a few kernels of history but is written in an ancient style called midrash which makes extensive use of metaphor and symbolism. Even the translation of words poses a problem. For instance the words used in both the OT and the NT and translated into the word faith actually meant at the time of writing "trust" and not a believe in a particular body of doctrinal statements. This changes the meaning of a lot of verses in the Bible. There are profound truths in the Bible but they are presented for the most part in metaphor and symbolism.
His comment about virtual agreement . . . is rather spurious because it is only true of one group withing the Christian Community. Others hold the contrary view. In fact many scholarly theologians make a very clear statement that the Bible presents no sexual ethics at all.
The Bible does say in Leviticus that homosexual activity is an abomination. It says the same thing about eating shell fish or wearing clothes made of more than one kind of fiber. It also makes the eating or pork a sin. This is a clear example of picking and choosing.
To St. Paul who wrote only seven of the letters attributed to him. He makes negative comments about homosexuality but a closer reading shows that he was talking about 'straight' folks engaging in homosexual activity. He and others at the time had no understanding of true homosexuality. In addition Paul also tells women to wear hats in church, have long hair and to be quiet. Here once again we see picking and choosing which many deny but cannot escape the fact that is what they are doing.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
I saw and interesting news article on Monday. They compared MRIs of both female and homosexual brains. The female brain has a structure that is different from the male. In the case of the homosexual his brain was very close in structure to the female brain and different from the male brain.
If God didn't make a mistake than He/She did in fact create the homosexual.
The same results came from the comparison of the lesbian brain though at this point I can't remember the similarities except to say that there were noticeable changes from the norm in the lesbian brain structure.
Of course there are some who would chastise God if He/She admitted to creating the homosexual. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
If God didn't make a mistake than He/She did in fact create the homosexual.
The same results came from the comparison of the lesbian brain though at this point I can't remember the similarities except to say that there were noticeable changes from the norm in the lesbian brain structure.
Of course there are some who would chastise God if He/She admitted to creating the homosexual. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
um a sin is a sin... so yea they will go to hell if they don't change their ways... yea sadly... i know God is so spiteful but the bible is black and white... sometimes red too lol
Smoke signals ftw!
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
I believe that we have for far too long used the term sin for things that are simply not in that category and that includes homosexuality.
What in your view is "sin"?
Shalom
Ted:-6
I believe that we have for far too long used the term sin for things that are simply not in that category and that includes homosexuality.
What in your view is "sin"?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
I guess if that is the case we can blame God for deliberately creating someone who will sin!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
I guess if that is the case we can blame God for deliberately creating someone who will sin!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
A sin is something unpleasing to God and what the bible says is a Sin.
Smoke signals ftw!
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
Firstly I;m glad to see someone around here is alive. I was beginning to think the rapture had occurred and . . .
Perhaps I should rephrase that question. What specifically is a sin? The above answer does not really give a clear response. Could something be unpleasant to God but not a sin?
It does boggle my mind that God would create something imperfect and then bitch about it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Firstly I;m glad to see someone around here is alive. I was beginning to think the rapture had occurred and . . .
Perhaps I should rephrase that question. What specifically is a sin? The above answer does not really give a clear response. Could something be unpleasant to God but not a sin?
It does boggle my mind that God would create something imperfect and then bitch about it.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
he didn't create us imperfect! lol Remember Eve? the apple??? lol
Umm Sin... something unpleasing to God i think is a sin. The bible clearly states what a sin is... the ten commandments, some in Paul's writing...
Umm Sin... something unpleasing to God i think is a sin. The bible clearly states what a sin is... the ten commandments, some in Paul's writing...
Smoke signals ftw!
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
Since the story of Adam and Eve were borrowed from the Sumerian's and the story itself is a myth that rather rules that out.
Where in the wonderful "ten" does it say anything about homosexuality? Where in the Bible did Jesus ever comment on Homosexuality? Yes Paul did apparently make some comments but are they found in the authentic letters of Paul or in pseudo-Paul?
Since the story of Adam and Eve were borrowed from the Sumerian's and the story itself is a myth that rather rules that out.
Where in the wonderful "ten" does it say anything about homosexuality? Where in the Bible did Jesus ever comment on Homosexuality? Yes Paul did apparently make some comments but are they found in the authentic letters of Paul or in pseudo-Paul?
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Ted;892665 wrote: Omni:-6
Since the story of Adam and Eve were borrowed from the Sumerian's and the story itself is a myth that rather rules that out.
Where in the wonderful "ten" does it say anything about homosexuality? Where in the Bible did Jesus ever comment on Homosexuality? Yes Paul did apparently make some comments but are they found in the authentic letters of Paul or in pseudo-Paul?
first lol i miss talking to you... and making me think...
2... really? if the story of adam and eve a myth? if that's the truth... then screw the bible.
Since the story of Adam and Eve were borrowed from the Sumerian's and the story itself is a myth that rather rules that out.
Where in the wonderful "ten" does it say anything about homosexuality? Where in the Bible did Jesus ever comment on Homosexuality? Yes Paul did apparently make some comments but are they found in the authentic letters of Paul or in pseudo-Paul?
first lol i miss talking to you... and making me think...
2... really? if the story of adam and eve a myth? if that's the truth... then screw the bible.
Smoke signals ftw!
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
"screw the Bible". Absolutely not. The main error or the reformation and the enlightenment is the idea that something has to be historically true in order to present profound truths. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact metaphor is often a better way of teaching truth. Teacher's have used this method since before Christ.
The Bible is not the world of God by virtue of its authorship but by the very fact that God speaks to us through the very human words in the Bible. The Bible contains much that we need to learn and follow. It was never intended by the writers to be taken literally. It is composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology and even some kernels of history spread throughout. However, it is not nor was it intended to be a history book. It is primarily a religious book and must be read as such.
Shalom
Ted:-6
"screw the Bible". Absolutely not. The main error or the reformation and the enlightenment is the idea that something has to be historically true in order to present profound truths. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact metaphor is often a better way of teaching truth. Teacher's have used this method since before Christ.
The Bible is not the world of God by virtue of its authorship but by the very fact that God speaks to us through the very human words in the Bible. The Bible contains much that we need to learn and follow. It was never intended by the writers to be taken literally. It is composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology and even some kernels of history spread throughout. However, it is not nor was it intended to be a history book. It is primarily a religious book and must be read as such.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Ted;892668 wrote: Omni:-6
"screw the Bible". Absolutely not. The main error or the reformation and the enlightenment is the idea that something has to be historically true in order to present profound truths. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact metaphor is often a better way of teaching truth. Teacher's have used this method since before Christ.
The Bible is not the world of God by virtue of its authorship but by the very fact that God speaks to us through the very human words in the Bible. The Bible contains much that we need to learn and follow. It was never intended by the writers to be taken literally. It is composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology and even some kernels of history spread throughout. However, it is not nor was it intended to be a history book. It is primarily a religious book and must be read as such.
Shalom
Ted:-6
i remember one of my profs said that moses wrote the Pentateuch to document to the people their history in a way the people would understand... I'm sorry i just truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God and I don't know why....
"screw the Bible". Absolutely not. The main error or the reformation and the enlightenment is the idea that something has to be historically true in order to present profound truths. Nothing could be further from the truth. In fact metaphor is often a better way of teaching truth. Teacher's have used this method since before Christ.
The Bible is not the world of God by virtue of its authorship but by the very fact that God speaks to us through the very human words in the Bible. The Bible contains much that we need to learn and follow. It was never intended by the writers to be taken literally. It is composed of myth, legend, folk tale, poetry, short story, fiction, theology and even some kernels of history spread throughout. However, it is not nor was it intended to be a history book. It is primarily a religious book and must be read as such.
Shalom
Ted:-6
i remember one of my profs said that moses wrote the Pentateuch to document to the people their history in a way the people would understand... I'm sorry i just truly believe the bible is the inspired word of God and I don't know why....
Smoke signals ftw!
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
If that is what you believe than I have no problem personally with it. However, that view does not stand up to critical scrutiny. It is not supported by history, archaeology or science.
Some examples: The Exodus is a parable. There is not one shred of evidence to support the contention it is historical. The evidence is to the contrary. In fact it is probably related to the story of the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
The idea of a census at the time of Jesus birth is not supported by the very thorough Roman records. First of all one doesn't take a census by going to where one was born but by signing in, as it were, where one lives. Secondly the Roman kept impeccable records of their political and social projects and there is simply no records of such a census.
Add to that, the fact that there is no record of any decree to kill all the children under two years of age. It didn't happen. These are all midrash.
The Book of Revelation is not a comment on the distant future but a very damning letter against the Roman empire.
The only thing I advise folks to do is think for themselves and do the research.
I could go on with dozens of examples but that should suffice.
Jesus said we would know the truth and it would set us free. Some folks are very much afraid of the truth including my former fundamentalist friends and colleagues.
Of course your professor will brand me as either ignorant or a heretic or a visitor from Satan. That is an opinion to which he is entitled. However, I have the scholarship and research behind me and will stick with that.
Shalom
Ted:-6
If that is what you believe than I have no problem personally with it. However, that view does not stand up to critical scrutiny. It is not supported by history, archaeology or science.
Some examples: The Exodus is a parable. There is not one shred of evidence to support the contention it is historical. The evidence is to the contrary. In fact it is probably related to the story of the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
The idea of a census at the time of Jesus birth is not supported by the very thorough Roman records. First of all one doesn't take a census by going to where one was born but by signing in, as it were, where one lives. Secondly the Roman kept impeccable records of their political and social projects and there is simply no records of such a census.
Add to that, the fact that there is no record of any decree to kill all the children under two years of age. It didn't happen. These are all midrash.
The Book of Revelation is not a comment on the distant future but a very damning letter against the Roman empire.
The only thing I advise folks to do is think for themselves and do the research.
I could go on with dozens of examples but that should suffice.
Jesus said we would know the truth and it would set us free. Some folks are very much afraid of the truth including my former fundamentalist friends and colleagues.
Of course your professor will brand me as either ignorant or a heretic or a visitor from Satan. That is an opinion to which he is entitled. However, I have the scholarship and research behind me and will stick with that.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
BTW my comments on the Exodus come from Jews and Jewish research.
Shalom
Ted:-6
BTW my comments on the Exodus come from Jews and Jewish research.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Omni_Skittles
- Posts: 2613
- Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:10 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Omni:-6
As a perpetual student and one who is a devout Christian I can only recommend that people think for themselves, read widely, not just the books one is told to read and avoid others. One never need be afraid of the truth.
Learn the history of the era and their language usage. Learn of their culture and their belief systems. Learn of the research that has been done and is being done on issues of the past.
Whether or not one believes as I do is immaterial to me. I know what I believe and have the support of my church and the Vancouver School of Theology. I am aware of the other sides of the issue. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found that for me they did not pass muster.
Shalom
Ted:-6
As a perpetual student and one who is a devout Christian I can only recommend that people think for themselves, read widely, not just the books one is told to read and avoid others. One never need be afraid of the truth.
Learn the history of the era and their language usage. Learn of their culture and their belief systems. Learn of the research that has been done and is being done on issues of the past.
Whether or not one believes as I do is immaterial to me. I know what I believe and have the support of my church and the Vancouver School of Theology. I am aware of the other sides of the issue. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found that for me they did not pass muster.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
First of all , You must establish that there are various forms of what is called Homosexuality today . There are those that are born with ( The Spirit Of A Woman In A Body Of A Man ) , Which is the one we will deal with here , Not to be confused With those by conversion of persuasion that is , Many Homosexuals become Homosexuals by force , As in prison and The Military , Or Molestation . Some by peer pressure , Others in an attempt to act Proper or Sophisticated and end up appearing to be Soft or Gay . Attracting the Gay crowed or friend and eventually decide that's what they want to be . That's their preference and it's alright .
In the case when a Homosexuals is living in a Female Body , This happens before they are born and this is why they go all out of their way to get A Sex Change , Which may appear exreeme to you , But they are not Satisfied until their Mind and Body are one in Gender .
Let me explain how this happens . At the beginning of their development as a Zygote only a small amount of Testosterone is Secreted . Just enough to make testes form on the developing Embryo , But not enought to excrcise proper brian chemistry and Pituitary Gland balance , Thus Homosexuality occurs naturally . This has nothing to do with The Conversion Of Homosexuals , In some cases , One is converted by being Raped By A Member Of Their Own Sex . And still in other cases , One Is Fondled By A Member Of Their Own Sex . It is more prominent in caucasians then any other race on the planet. In fact . The Ancient Greek Are Known For Their Homosexuals Activities .
The Dog Book
Authored By ;
The Supreme Grand Master
Nayya ; Malachizodok York-El
For The United Nuwaubian Nation
Of Moors .
In the case when a Homosexuals is living in a Female Body , This happens before they are born and this is why they go all out of their way to get A Sex Change , Which may appear exreeme to you , But they are not Satisfied until their Mind and Body are one in Gender .
Let me explain how this happens . At the beginning of their development as a Zygote only a small amount of Testosterone is Secreted . Just enough to make testes form on the developing Embryo , But not enought to excrcise proper brian chemistry and Pituitary Gland balance , Thus Homosexuality occurs naturally . This has nothing to do with The Conversion Of Homosexuals , In some cases , One is converted by being Raped By A Member Of Their Own Sex . And still in other cases , One Is Fondled By A Member Of Their Own Sex . It is more prominent in caucasians then any other race on the planet. In fact . The Ancient Greek Are Known For Their Homosexuals Activities .
The Dog Book
Authored By ;
The Supreme Grand Master
Nayya ; Malachizodok York-El
For The United Nuwaubian Nation
Of Moors .
Never Argue With An Idiot. They Drag You Down To Their Level Then Beat You With Experience.
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
When An Elder Passes On To Higher Life , Its Like One Of The Library Have Shut Down
To Desire Security Is A Sign Of Insecurity .
It's Not The Things One Knows That Get Him Or Her In Trouble , Its The Things One Knows That Just Isn't So That Get Them In Trouble
When you can control a man's thinking you don't have to worry about his action ...:driving:
-
twistwoods
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:04 pm
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
As a lifelong Christian, it has always puzzled me why so many of my fellow Christians feel the need to spend so much of their time and energy in considering this topic.
I have always regarded the Bible as a book of witness - witnessing to the way God revealed himself to certain chosen people and how they, over many centuries, came to a better understanding of who and what he was. Nevertheless, because of their own prejudices, they did not always get things right and so Jesus had to come to earth, mostly to take our sins upon himself, but also to show us where our understanding of God was in error. Of course, not every Christian shares my understanding of what the Bible is.
If, as many Christians do, you believe that every word of the Bible is infallible, it is very likely that you will believe that homosexuality is a sin. But, on the other hand, if you do believe that the Bible is infallible, you must believe that ALL sin is EQUALLY abominable in the sight of God because, after all, that is what the Bible tells us.
So why do Christians not spend as much time asking if adulterers, thieves etc are doomed to eternal damnation? Why are they so ready to forgive these sinners but not to forgive homosexuals? Surely, that says much more about their own prejudices than it does about the 'sin' of homosexuality.
Personally, I prefer to look at Jesus's example. He befriended prostitutes and tax collectors and all the social outcasts of his day. I'm fairly confident that he did not approve of their actions but he loved them anyway, so I would be much happier if Christians spent more time witnessing to the love of Jesus, rather than claiming that they know who will go to Hell. I prefer to leave that decision where it rightly belongs - in God's hands! After all, in the eyes of God, we are ALL sinners and yet we believe that we will be saved because Jesus paid the price for our sins. I'd be really grateful if someone could show me where it says in the Bible that Jesus died to save all sinners except homosexuals! :-3
And, just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I should say that I am a senior citizen and I have been happily married to my husband for more than 40 years but, as someone once said to me, I AM STRAIGHT BUT NOT NARROW!
I have always regarded the Bible as a book of witness - witnessing to the way God revealed himself to certain chosen people and how they, over many centuries, came to a better understanding of who and what he was. Nevertheless, because of their own prejudices, they did not always get things right and so Jesus had to come to earth, mostly to take our sins upon himself, but also to show us where our understanding of God was in error. Of course, not every Christian shares my understanding of what the Bible is.
If, as many Christians do, you believe that every word of the Bible is infallible, it is very likely that you will believe that homosexuality is a sin. But, on the other hand, if you do believe that the Bible is infallible, you must believe that ALL sin is EQUALLY abominable in the sight of God because, after all, that is what the Bible tells us.
So why do Christians not spend as much time asking if adulterers, thieves etc are doomed to eternal damnation? Why are they so ready to forgive these sinners but not to forgive homosexuals? Surely, that says much more about their own prejudices than it does about the 'sin' of homosexuality.
Personally, I prefer to look at Jesus's example. He befriended prostitutes and tax collectors and all the social outcasts of his day. I'm fairly confident that he did not approve of their actions but he loved them anyway, so I would be much happier if Christians spent more time witnessing to the love of Jesus, rather than claiming that they know who will go to Hell. I prefer to leave that decision where it rightly belongs - in God's hands! After all, in the eyes of God, we are ALL sinners and yet we believe that we will be saved because Jesus paid the price for our sins. I'd be really grateful if someone could show me where it says in the Bible that Jesus died to save all sinners except homosexuals! :-3
And, just in case anyone gets the wrong idea, I should say that I am a senior citizen and I have been happily married to my husband for more than 40 years but, as someone once said to me, I AM STRAIGHT BUT NOT NARROW!
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
-
twistwoods
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:04 pm
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
I'm genuinely sorry if you thought I had tried to avoid answering the question. That was not my intention. I'll say it as plainly as I can.
I don't know whether homosexuality is a sin or not. God has not revealed that to me. My instinct is that it is not a sin but I am not prepared to set myself up as God and say that, whatever he says, I know better than he does . The Bible says it is a sin and, for all I know, that part of the Bible may indeed have been directly inspired by God. IF that is true, I will not contradict my Lord and Saviour! However, my instinct tells me that the Bible was written by fallible human beings with huge prejudices and so they could have got it wrong. We know they made some mistakes because Jesus took great pains to correct some of those mistakes.
But the point I was making was that my fellow Christians seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time on this subject and I think they do so because of their own prejudices. According to the Bible, ALL sin is abhorrent to God so, even if homosexuality IS a sin, it is no worse than all the other sins which do not generate so much heated debate within the Christian community!
I am not proud of the fact that, like everyone else, I sometimes sin. Nevertheless, I will proclaim it from the hilltops that I am a sinner and that, (Praise the Lord!) Jesus took all my sins upon himself so that I can be reconciled with God - and that would be equally true if I were gay!
And THAT is the real point. We are ALL sinners and yet God loves us all and, through Jesus Christ, we have been reconciled with him and so, those of us who believe hope that we will spend eternity with him in heaven. So what right does anyone have to try to tell the rest of us that Jesus's sacrifice only works for SOME sinners and not for others?! I am just very, very glad that I will be judged by God and not by my fellow human beings. At least I know that God is prejudiced in my favour - not prejudiced AGAINST me!
I often think that there are some very devout Christians (and members of other religions) who will get a HUGE shock when they finally get to heaven and see who they have to share it with!
I don't know whether homosexuality is a sin or not. God has not revealed that to me. My instinct is that it is not a sin but I am not prepared to set myself up as God and say that, whatever he says, I know better than he does . The Bible says it is a sin and, for all I know, that part of the Bible may indeed have been directly inspired by God. IF that is true, I will not contradict my Lord and Saviour! However, my instinct tells me that the Bible was written by fallible human beings with huge prejudices and so they could have got it wrong. We know they made some mistakes because Jesus took great pains to correct some of those mistakes.
But the point I was making was that my fellow Christians seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time on this subject and I think they do so because of their own prejudices. According to the Bible, ALL sin is abhorrent to God so, even if homosexuality IS a sin, it is no worse than all the other sins which do not generate so much heated debate within the Christian community!
I am not proud of the fact that, like everyone else, I sometimes sin. Nevertheless, I will proclaim it from the hilltops that I am a sinner and that, (Praise the Lord!) Jesus took all my sins upon himself so that I can be reconciled with God - and that would be equally true if I were gay!
And THAT is the real point. We are ALL sinners and yet God loves us all and, through Jesus Christ, we have been reconciled with him and so, those of us who believe hope that we will spend eternity with him in heaven. So what right does anyone have to try to tell the rest of us that Jesus's sacrifice only works for SOME sinners and not for others?! I am just very, very glad that I will be judged by God and not by my fellow human beings. At least I know that God is prejudiced in my favour - not prejudiced AGAINST me!
I often think that there are some very devout Christians (and members of other religions) who will get a HUGE shock when they finally get to heaven and see who they have to share it with!
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Twistedwoods:
Absolutely wonderful posts. As a Christian pluralist I couldn't agree more.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Absolutely wonderful posts. As a Christian pluralist I couldn't agree more.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Jester:-6
The medical profession has now shown that homosexuality is not a choice but a given. The brains of sever homosexuals have been analyzed by MRI and compared with the brains of non homosexuals and women. The fact of the matter is that the homosexual male's brain is structured like the female brain which is different from the male brain. They are what they are because God created them that way.
I read the following which comes from Merton's book "The Wisdom of the Desert". These writings are from circa400 CE. "An elder said: Do not judge a fornicator if you are chaste, for if you do, you too are violating the law as much as he is. For He who said thou shat not fornicate also said thou shalt not judge. " pg 41.
Personally I think it is bunkum to refer to homosexuality as a sin. However, I will leave the judging up to God as the ancient sage above has said.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The medical profession has now shown that homosexuality is not a choice but a given. The brains of sever homosexuals have been analyzed by MRI and compared with the brains of non homosexuals and women. The fact of the matter is that the homosexual male's brain is structured like the female brain which is different from the male brain. They are what they are because God created them that way.
I read the following which comes from Merton's book "The Wisdom of the Desert". These writings are from circa400 CE. "An elder said: Do not judge a fornicator if you are chaste, for if you do, you too are violating the law as much as he is. For He who said thou shat not fornicate also said thou shalt not judge. " pg 41.
Personally I think it is bunkum to refer to homosexuality as a sin. However, I will leave the judging up to God as the ancient sage above has said.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Jester:-6
From the mouths of the people who wrote the Book: Midrash is where it is at. One event was used to describe and define a later event. Also the Bible is loaded with midrash and metaphor. The creation stories are myth as is the Exodus a legend. Also the writers never intended the book to be taken literally but metaphorically and that it ought to be reinterpreted with the accumulated knowledge of time. Also one passage can have many more than one right or correct meaning.
From the people who wrote the "Book". These comments can be attributed to hundreds of years of research.
Shalom
Ted:-6
From the mouths of the people who wrote the Book: Midrash is where it is at. One event was used to describe and define a later event. Also the Bible is loaded with midrash and metaphor. The creation stories are myth as is the Exodus a legend. Also the writers never intended the book to be taken literally but metaphorically and that it ought to be reinterpreted with the accumulated knowledge of time. Also one passage can have many more than one right or correct meaning.
From the people who wrote the "Book". These comments can be attributed to hundreds of years of research.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
twistwoods
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:04 pm
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Jester;943672 wrote: ahahahahahahahahahaha I almost told her earlier that you and her would get along well since you both decide what the bible says line by line rather than in context.
At least you're consistant Ted!
Its called the pluralist line item veto!
Well, let me admit straight away that I don't understand what you are saying and it seems to me that you don't understand what I'm saying either. I don't know whether it is because I'm a Brit or whether I am just being thick. (Don't answer that unless you can be polite!!! :-3 )
I really don't understand how you can say that I decide what the Bible says 'line by line'. How can I make it any plainer? I am refusing to say that the Bible is wrong - even though I know that the Old Testament writers have made mistakes - I know it because Jesus has told me so! Why am I refusing? Because Jesus has not said that the OT was wrong on this issue and I will not set myself up as God!!!!
All I am saying is that I suspect the OT writers may have been influenced by their own prejudices. But, for the third and final time, I have to ask - does it really matter if homosexuality is a sin since we are ALL sinners?
It seems to me that many Christians use the Bible to shore up their own prejudices and many gays try to force Christians - even those who want to support them - to do something no Christian can do, and say that GOD got it wrong!!! As anyone with two brain cells can understand, there is a world of difference between saying the OT writers got it wrong and saying GOD got it wrong!!!
I will never say that God got it wrong because I truly believe that God doesn't make mistakes and, besides, I do not have his wisdom or insight, so how can I possibly set myself up as his judge?!?. Even so, Jesus's life and example has taught me that all that really matters is love. St Paul says it is even greater than faith, so why can't more Christians just show more love towards their fellow human beings.
On the other hand, some (not all) gays must bear some of the responsibility for the animosity some Christians feel towards them. I will tell you what I mean by that. For reasons I do not want to divulge on this forum (at least, not yet) I have met with huge amounts of prejudice in my life and I have learnt one lesson from that. I have learnt to distance myself from those who hate me but to accept the good will of those who offer it, even if they do not truly understand my circumstances. It might be helpful if the most strident gays learnt the same lesson. I think they should learn to accept good will when it is offered - even if people like me will never truly understand their point of view or what it is like to walk a mile in their shoes.
Now, it occurs to me that I have joined in a debate that I think should not need to take place so I shall not be answering any more posts on this subject unless someone says something truly original which I believe sheds some real light on the subject.
All I want to say, to both gay people and those who attack them is this:
Learn to love one another and then go in the love and peace of the Lord.
At least you're consistant Ted!
Its called the pluralist line item veto!
Well, let me admit straight away that I don't understand what you are saying and it seems to me that you don't understand what I'm saying either. I don't know whether it is because I'm a Brit or whether I am just being thick. (Don't answer that unless you can be polite!!! :-3 )
I really don't understand how you can say that I decide what the Bible says 'line by line'. How can I make it any plainer? I am refusing to say that the Bible is wrong - even though I know that the Old Testament writers have made mistakes - I know it because Jesus has told me so! Why am I refusing? Because Jesus has not said that the OT was wrong on this issue and I will not set myself up as God!!!!
All I am saying is that I suspect the OT writers may have been influenced by their own prejudices. But, for the third and final time, I have to ask - does it really matter if homosexuality is a sin since we are ALL sinners?
It seems to me that many Christians use the Bible to shore up their own prejudices and many gays try to force Christians - even those who want to support them - to do something no Christian can do, and say that GOD got it wrong!!! As anyone with two brain cells can understand, there is a world of difference between saying the OT writers got it wrong and saying GOD got it wrong!!!
I will never say that God got it wrong because I truly believe that God doesn't make mistakes and, besides, I do not have his wisdom or insight, so how can I possibly set myself up as his judge?!?. Even so, Jesus's life and example has taught me that all that really matters is love. St Paul says it is even greater than faith, so why can't more Christians just show more love towards their fellow human beings.
On the other hand, some (not all) gays must bear some of the responsibility for the animosity some Christians feel towards them. I will tell you what I mean by that. For reasons I do not want to divulge on this forum (at least, not yet) I have met with huge amounts of prejudice in my life and I have learnt one lesson from that. I have learnt to distance myself from those who hate me but to accept the good will of those who offer it, even if they do not truly understand my circumstances. It might be helpful if the most strident gays learnt the same lesson. I think they should learn to accept good will when it is offered - even if people like me will never truly understand their point of view or what it is like to walk a mile in their shoes.
Now, it occurs to me that I have joined in a debate that I think should not need to take place so I shall not be answering any more posts on this subject unless someone says something truly original which I believe sheds some real light on the subject.
All I want to say, to both gay people and those who attack them is this:
Learn to love one another and then go in the love and peace of the Lord.
Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing. (Proverbs 12:18)
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
twistwoods;943809 wrote: [...]
Now, it occurs to me that I have joined in a debate that I think should not need to take place so I shall not be answering any more posts on this subject unless someone says something truly original which I believe sheds some real light on the subject.
I like your strength. :-6
Now, it occurs to me that I have joined in a debate that I think should not need to take place so I shall not be answering any more posts on this subject unless someone says something truly original which I believe sheds some real light on the subject.
I like your strength. :-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Jester:-6
I cannot give you a link for that as it was a news item on TV.
You agree with the Jews! Perhaps. Our accumulated knowledge is showing us that homosexuality is a given not a choice. It also shows us that evolution is the way the world has developed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I cannot give you a link for that as it was a news item on TV.
You agree with the Jews! Perhaps. Our accumulated knowledge is showing us that homosexuality is a given not a choice. It also shows us that evolution is the way the world has developed.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Does God consider homosexuality a sin
Jester:-6
On judging I posted this last evening but cannot at the moment locate it so I will post it again. From the wisdom of the ancient church fathers, circa 400CE as quoted in "Wisdom of the Desert", p41, T. Merton.
"An elder said: do not judge a fornicator if you are chaste, for if you do, you too are violating the law as much as he is. For He who said thou shat not fornicate also said thou shalt not judge."
Another one that has come to mind is:
"Abbot John used to say: We have thrown down a light burden, which is the reprehending of our own selves, and we have chosen instead to bear a heavy burden, by justifying our own selves and condemning others."
It is amazing the wisdom that came from the early church that the reformation decided should be ignored.
These two reflect what we see in the life and teachings of Jesus.
Shalom
Ted:-6
On judging I posted this last evening but cannot at the moment locate it so I will post it again. From the wisdom of the ancient church fathers, circa 400CE as quoted in "Wisdom of the Desert", p41, T. Merton.
"An elder said: do not judge a fornicator if you are chaste, for if you do, you too are violating the law as much as he is. For He who said thou shat not fornicate also said thou shalt not judge."
Another one that has come to mind is:
"Abbot John used to say: We have thrown down a light burden, which is the reprehending of our own selves, and we have chosen instead to bear a heavy burden, by justifying our own selves and condemning others."
It is amazing the wisdom that came from the early church that the reformation decided should be ignored.
These two reflect what we see in the life and teachings of Jesus.
Shalom
Ted:-6