A Tribe Of Indians Wanted To Kill Me

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:11 pm

After some of your comments here I have zero respect for you Red.

(Since were telling it like it is)

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:18 pm

Nomad;927827 wrote: After some of your comments here I have zero respect for you Red.

(Since were telling it like it is)

You're entitled to that Nomad.

If that's all you judge me on, then that shows me the kind of man you are.

I'm sorry I misjudged you.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:25 pm

It seems everyone wants something some the USA.

Indians are getting compensation from the Govt. & alot...

Blacks want reparation for slavery - even tho they weren't the one shackled.

Japanese want reparation for WWII. and, and,

I feel as long as we're giving & giving

We have earned the respect.

and we should respect other opinions.

Until you live around it - not a weekend drive to find it

it'll be very difficult to change ones opinion - since we see it on a daily basis.

Yes - the '07 truck stops working, it's parked like junk and a Indian will go out & buy a 2008, until it blows, then park it.. Yes, many, many drink all day & drive & have tribal laws to protect them instead of the US law.

I don't know what the solution is here - how much compensation can we keep putting out - we don't even take care of those poor WHITE PEOPLE anymore...

Patsy

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:46 pm

Suppose the people who landed on the shores of America all those years ago had been from China or the Middle East. There wouldn't have been any survivors to give reservation land to.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:02 pm

Clint

TOUCHE !!!

Patsy

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:46 am

chonsigirl;926758 wrote: Then you need to study more, said very respectfully KS, because you're a good guy. They did use all of the land, and the assumption that they should use other means of farming and making a living is an assumption on your part. Or that they should have shared the land because they didn't need it all, is incorrect.

If you want a list of books to begin research in this area, please let me know. This topic is what I have read and wrote and have articles published about for the last decade, and will continue for however long my little old fingers will type. Many scholars write in this area, and research will continue. So I do know what has been written on land, native use of it, how much land they used, etc. Your basic assumptions are incorrect. You just need to read and look into it more, from scholarly works.

I like reading fuzzy butt's description of how another area of the world deals with the indigenous people.

I understand...I think you're missing my points...

Sharing is more than a one way street...There had been means to produce food by means of very definitive farming...These means could have been shared with the Indians or Native Americans so that all could live together in harmony without the unnecessary waste of all of that land as defined by their native culture...The Romans mastered it...Along with many practices the Native Americans could have shared with the people to whom settled on this land...I have no doubt that the Indians or Native Americans used all of this land...But they were doing so wrongly and wastefully...

Before anyone feels I'm condoning the wrongs committed by the people to whom had/have settled in this land you're mistaken...

My point is is that the land could have been shared...It's up to individuals to assess which instances were right and which instances were wrong...

A land with borders is a land from which bares people willing to kill to keep those borders...Otherwise it's sharing...In the instances one party does not share equally with another party they're wrong...

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:51 am

Accountable;926791 wrote: I'll drop it with supporting Chonsi's suggestion, because you're posts seem to see theft as justified.

Theft is justified when it's not threatening the livelihood of those to whom are being stolen from as at the same time those to whom are stealing need what it is they're stealing to survive...Obviously when to those to whom have more than they need and won't share the theft becomes more justified...

I don't see how anyone couldn't agree with this...

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:49 am

K.Snyder;927887 wrote: I understand...I think you're missing my points...

Sharing is more than a one way street...There had been means to produce food by means of very definitive farming...These means could have been shared with the Indians or Native Americans so that all could live together in harmony without the unnecessary waste of all of that land as defined by their native culture...The Romans mastered it...Along with many practices the Native Americans could have shared with the people to whom settled on this land...I have no doubt that the Indians or Native Americans used all of this land...But they were doing so wrongly and wastefully...

Before anyone feels I'm condoning the wrongs committed by the people to whom had/have settled in this land you're mistaken...

My point is is that the land could have been shared...It's up to individuals to assess which instances were right and which instances were wrong...

A land with borders is a land from which bares people willing to kill to keep those borders...Otherwise it's sharing...In the instances one party does not share equally with another party they're wrong...

You seem to think that starving, overcrowded Europeans had nowhere to go so they came to The New World where there was wide open spaces and virtually no other people. Wrong on both counts.

It took weeks to come over by ship. That kind of trip doesn't come cheap. The paupers of Europe didn't come to America for generations.

Also, rather than being overcrowded, Europe had about 60 million people, while North America had upwards of 40 million, according to the book I referenced earlier.

So don't romanticise this by thinking that Europes tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free came to the uber-rich Indians and were turned away cold. European culture at the time was that the strong dominate the weak and there's riches for the taking in the New World. The natives were outmatched, otherwise we'd all be speaking Navajo or something today.

K.Snyder;927891 wrote: Theft is justified when it's not threatening the livelihood of those to whom are being stolen from as at the same time those to whom are stealing need what it is they're stealing to survive...Obviously when to those to whom have more than they need and won't share the theft becomes more justified...

I don't see how anyone couldn't agree with this...I don't see how anyone could, but it doesn't matter because that wasn't the situation in 16th century America.

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:07 am

Accountable;928168 wrote: You seem to think that starving, overcrowded Europeans had nowhere to go so they came to The New World where there was wide open spaces and virtually no other people. Wrong on both counts.

It took weeks to come over by ship. That kind of trip doesn't come cheap. The paupers of Europe didn't come to America for generations.

Also, rather than being overcrowded, Europe had about 60 million people, while North America had upwards of 40 million, according to the book I referenced earlier.

So don't romanticise this by thinking that Europes tired, poor, huddled masses yearning to breathe free came to the uber-rich Indians and were turned away cold. European culture at the time was that the strong dominate the weak and there's riches for the taking in the New World. The natives were outmatched, otherwise we'd all be speaking Navajo or something today.

You're over exaggerating my position on the matter...

My emphasis is that people share...I'm not taking sides...

But in any case there are hundreds of books that all seem to have differing estimates on the populations of North America at the time so really there's nothing left but to voice what we know to be right and wrong...

What's right is to share and be human...What's wrong is to steal from those to whom need what "you're" stealing as well as murdering to get it...

It's up to people to decide which instances were right and which instances were wrong...

What's wrong is to expect to get murdered for living on a land from which borders divinely have no prevalence...People who create borders are people willing to kill to keep them...Otherwise why would they make them?...

K.Snyder;927891 wrote: Theft is justified when it's not threatening the livelihood of those to whom are being stolen from as at the same time those to whom are stealing need what it is they're stealing to survive...Obviously when to those to whom have more than they need and won't share the theft becomes more justified...

I don't see how anyone couldn't agree with this...

Accountable;928168 wrote:

I don't see how anyone could,...

So you're saying that it's only right for a kid to starve to death sitting next to an over weight kid with two apples to whom won't share?...

That's not rather empathetic...

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:21 am

Well it's all very obvious to me now. We here in America need to pack our belongings and move back to Europe. It's the only way to make up for the sins of our forefathers.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:33 am

Clint;929694 wrote: Well it's all very obvious to me now. We here in America need to pack our belongings and move back to Europe. It's the only way to make up for the sins of our forefathers.
Nope. All that land's claimed as well. There are two other options.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:00 am

Accountable;929720 wrote: Nope. All that land's claimed as well. There are two other options.

:yh_rotfl

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:40 am

Clint;929694 wrote: Well it's all very obvious to me now. We here in America need to pack our belongings and move back to Europe. It's the only way to make up for the sins of our forefathers.

Thats not what this is about Clint.

Its about evolution of self and society.

Acknowledgement, not blame.

Recognition that what we did and the way we did it was in many instances crude and barbaric.

They werent having a problem with us until we arrived and said ok kids, theres a new sheriff in town.

Acknowledgement is key to shaping the way we conduct ourselves in the future.

This nation has repeatedly made some enormous blunders.

Learning from our own history makes us a better nation and better individuals.

For example saying the Jews have a chip on their shoulder because of the >Holocaust< is nothing short of brutal.

Remembering keeps us aware of how we should conduct ourselves in the world for future endeavors.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:58 am

fuzzy Butt;929850 wrote: It Goes For Over 6 Minutes So You Guys Should Be Finished By The Time The Song Ends

snap !

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:12 am

fuzzy butt;929850 wrote: Speaking of Indians ......cause I kinda thought we were.

Has anyone ever listened to Oliver Shanti? god he has some beautiful music Indian music. If you guys ever come across it give it a whirl.

One of my favourites from him is Medicine Power, from the Circles of Life album If ya gonna have sex? have it to this music . Very rhythmic, and quite beautifiul. It goes for over 6 minutes so you guys should be finished by the time the song ends

:wah::wah::wah: Oh and another is Water from (spirits of nature 5)

I love singing a particular Indian song . by joanne shennedoah . some languages are easy to sing along to .

The Elton John collaboration? :guitarist

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:14 am

Nomad;929852 wrote: snap !

crackle !

pop !

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:17 am

fuzzy butt;929881 wrote: OMG!!!???? what does that mean?

Your dick didn't just fall off did it?

You want to know something funny . I'm sitting here listening to Norah Jones, cold cold heart,
Notice the exact 6 minute difference between the posts?:wah:

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:18 am

I'm sitting here listening to Norah Jones, cold cold heart,

Yup. Now theres the furry butt we all know and love.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 am

YZGI;929883 wrote: Notice the exact 6 minute difference between the posts?:wah:
There I go showing my math skills again..:wah:

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:19 am

one of my favorite things about this place is how we can turn ANY thread into a sex thread. :wah:

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:20 am

sunny104;929889 wrote: one of my favorite things about this place is how we can turn ANY thread into a sex thread. :wah:

We ?

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:24 am

Nomad;929890 wrote: We ?

well, not *me* :yh_angel but the rest of you....

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:27 am

sunny104;929889 wrote: one of my favorite things about this place is how we can turn ANY thread into a sex thread. :wah:

From the boob thread to here. I think that took 10 minutes.:p

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:33 am

fuzzy butt;929914 wrote: Hey yeah !! God I'm good. oh umm .............I planned that all along:wah:

Nah it wasn't about sex sunny it was about Indian music but I was listening to that partic..................oh never mind .....yes it was about sex:wah::wah:

What does this have to do with chopsticks ?

Id really like to know.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:39 am

fuzzy butt;929923 wrote: really? you coming onto me nomad?

ewwhhh what a thought ..pwhehewhhww phweaw wash my mouth out . icky

You getting all up in my grill ?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:40 am

fuzzy butt;929923 wrote: really? you coming onto me nomad?

ewwhhh what a thought ..pwhehewhhww phweaw wash my mouth out . icky

just kidding .

back to normal programming

Now what was this about Europeans? and land? and all that?
The Indians had it. We took it. Now no one knows exactly what to do about it or how to feel.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:41 am

group hug! :p

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:57 am

fuzzy butt;929965 wrote: Awwwhhh come 'ere........but if this starts getting weird I'm outta here :wah::wah:

I'd be the one squeezing people's butts when they weren't looking....

and then I'd blame YZGI!:wah:

Uncle Kram · Post by **Uncle Kram** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:58 am

Very brave of you Nomad.

The plight of the American Indian is a theme running through a lot of Joni Mitchells work. Here's one of her songs.

LAKOTA

I am Lakota!

Lakota!

Looking at money man-

Diggin' the deadly quotas-

Out of balance-

Out of hand

We want the land!

Lay down the reeking ore!

Don't you hear the shrieking in the trees?

Everywhere you touch the earth-she's sore

Every time you skin her all things weep

Your money mocks us-

Restitution-what good can it do?-

Kennelled in metered boxes

Red dogs in debt to you

I am Lakota!

Lakota!

Fighting among ourselves

All we can say with one whole heart

Is we won't sell-

No we'll never sell

We want the land!

The lonely coyote calls

In the woodlands-footprints of the deer

In the barrooms-poor drunk bastard falls

In the courtrooms-deaf ears-sixty years

You think we're sleeping-but

Quietly like rattlesnakes and stars

We have seen the trampled rainbows

In the smoke of cars

[Chorus:]

I am Lakota

Brave

Sun pity me

I am Lakota

Broken

Moon pity me

I am Lakota

Grave

Shadows stretching

Lakota

Oh pity me

I am Lakota

Weak

Grass pity me

I am Lakota

Faithful

Rocks pity me

I am Lakota

Meek

Standing water

Lakota

Oh pity me

I am Lakota!

Lakota!

Standing on sacred land

We never sold these Black Hills

To the missile-heads-

To the power plants

We want the land!

The bullet and the fence-broke Lakota

The black coats and the booze-broke Lakota

Courts that circumvent-choke Lakota

Nothing left to lose

Tell me grandfather

You spoke the fur and feather tongues-

Do you hear the whimpering waters

When the tractors come?

[Chorus]

Sun pity me

Mother earth

Mother

Moon pity me

Father sky

Father

Shadows

Stretching on the forest floor

Mother earth

Oh pity me

Father sky

Father

Grass pity me

Mother earth

Mother

Rocks pity me

Father sky

Father

Water

Standing in a wakan manner

Mother earth

Oh pity me

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:06 am

fuzzy butt;929953 wrote: what am I ? road kill? .............................."Grill" means the same there as it does here doesn't it? the front of the car?

Grill

1. One's personal business

2. One's teeth/smile

Why you all up in my grill, fool?

OR

Damn boy, youre gonna get knocked in the grill.

Grill

1- Teeth

2-A gold/diamond plate that is molded for your teeth. It is decorated with diamonds and/or gold.

Usually worn by rappers: Nelly, Paul Wall, Mike Jones and many others.

1- Yoo, you clean your grill everyday homie?! they is pure white!

2- How much did ya grill cost?

Grill

Grill

An iced out retainer

my teath are mind blowin givin' everybody chillz

call me George Foreman cuz' im sellin everybody grillz

An oral insert which can tend to cause cold fronts when deep breaths are taken in through the mouth, as well as creating a disco ball type apperance of the orafice. May cause hood rats to constantly ask to see your grill, yeah, yeah, your grill. Also, by wearing a grill you may encounter side effects such as being a white southern rapper who has no musical credit or respect, or finding yourself making idiotic items of clothing (i.e. shirts with your picture on it) and being an overall d-bag. (see Female Hygiene)

What the **** is that thing in your mouth? A what? A grill? Thats the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever seen. I hate you and I hope you die.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:10 am

The plight of the American Indian is a theme running through a lot of Joni Mitchells work. Here's one of her songs.

I forget which album thats on but its a good song.

Ovation guitar if I remember right.

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:34 am

we prefer native american... thank you very much! hahahaha

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:37 am

fuzzy butt;930005 wrote: ummm fine.

What the **** is that thing in your mouth? A what? A grill? Thats the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever seen. I hate you and I hope you die.

Thats all copy and paste.

Its not directed at you.

Dont make me come over there.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:38 am

Omni_Skittles;930022 wrote: we prefer native american... thank you very much! hahahaha

Right.

Sorry.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:39 am

Omni_Skittles;930022 wrote: we prefer native american... thank you very much! hahahaha
I'm a native too.

How about Original American? or Aborigine American? We could shorten that to Double-A. :yh_bigsmi

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:42 am

Accountable;930161 wrote: I'm a native too.

How about Original American? or Aborigine American? We could shorten that to Double-A. :yh_bigsmi

Do you have your own horse ?

Do you hunt buffalo and tan the hide for warmth in winter months ?

Do you know how to make corn meal with stone utensils ?

No I didnt think so.....NEXT !

K.Snyder · Post by **K.Snyder** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:45 pm

Nomad;929827 wrote: Thats not what this is about Clint.

Its about evolution of self and society.

Acknowledgement, not blame.

Recognition that what we did and the way we did it was in many instances crude and barbaric.

They werent having a problem with us until we arrived and said ok kids, theres a new sheriff in town.

Acknowledgement is key to shaping the way we conduct ourselves in the future.

This nation has repeatedly made some enormous blunders.

Learning from our own history makes us a better nation and better individuals.

For example saying the Jews have a chip on their shoulder because of the >Holocaust

This holds true for those willing to admit that they are capable of doing exactly what the wrongs were from which those who committed those wrongs had done...

That's the entire argument...A very large part of America consists of people from which migrated here after the events that had taken place during the times of the first European settlements...Just because one happens to have the same color skin or the same size nose doesn't mean those people should be blamed for the wrongs that those to whom were wrong committed...What makes a child of today, or a child descendant of those who committed wrongs against the Native American people for that matter any different than a child from a Native American background?...Nothing...

The people who did the wrongs are the ones that should be held responsible...As for anyone else it's up to your morale standards and fortitude to ensure that "you're" a friendly and caring human being...

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:55 pm

Very well said.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:01 pm

Nomad;929827 wrote: Thats not what this is about Clint.

Its about evolution of self and society.

Acknowledgement, not blame.

Recognition that what we did and the way we did it was in many instances crude and barbaric.

They werent having a problem with us until we arrived and said ok kids, theres a new sheriff in town.

Acknowledgement is key to shaping the way we conduct ourselves in the future.

This nation has repeatedly made some enormous blunders.

Learning from our own history makes us a better nation and better individuals.

For example saying the Jews have a chip on their shoulder because of the >Holocaust

I hesitate to reply. This post is almost ancient history already.

I agree with much of what you say.

In all that is living there are those species that are dominant and those that end up giving way to the dominant ones. It works that way for a reason. If it wasn’t so, everything would devolve at a much more rapid rate. In all that is living there is one huge exception and that is mankind. We have the ability to look back on what we did and at least know we should have done better even if we don’t. We were looking at what had been done and trying to make it right when the treaties were made.

I’m proud of my country because we responded to what we saw we had done in a positive way. Maybe it isn’t enough but we didn’t ignore it. Many societies would have just destroyed the evidence and moved on. We didn’t.