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Post by YZGI »

Jester;923891 wrote: Yeesh dont you think crucifixion is a bit harsh? cant we just tear out a thumbnail instead? :D



Mine too, my boy broke his lower leg doing a flying twist spin off the couch... I walked in the door, and he very excitedly jumped up and in mid air yelled 'watch this dad'... *SNAP*



He full well knew not to jump off the couch like that, but I had come home early on him he had a circus planed out in the back yard, the higlight of his tumbling act was a spin landing off the patio table into the grass... only in a hurried fasion and in his excitement he forgot the couch is a foot in a half lower that the patio table.



Kids forget.
Whew.. Okay I'll take the thumbnail bit and be thankful for the punishment. (Its kinda hot around here now days for a crucifixion)
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Post by Accountable »

YZGI;923869 wrote: The only way to make sure no children are ever involved in an accident is to lock them into a round rubber room when it is impossible for at least one of the parents to have both eyes glued on them every second.Didn't you hear Spot? The parents shouldn't be responsible at all. The gov't should be entrusted with hiring professionals if you want to do the job right.
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Post by RedGlitter »

Yeah I'm not talking about things like falling off the slide and breaking a leg. Kids do stuff like that all the time...we're talking about a kid dying because his mom left him with an inefficient person. That's a bit different from having childhood accidents.
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Post by YZGI »

Accountable;923901 wrote: Didn't you hear Spot? The parents shouldn't be responsible at all. The gov't should be entrusted with hiring professionals if you want to do the job right.
Trust me, with 3 boys I would agree with him at times..:wah:
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Post by K.Snyder »

Not knowing a 4 year old was in the car?...I don't buy it.



A 6 month old baby who would have been coincidentally enough complacent, maybe, but not a 4 year old.
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Post by spot »

Accountable;923897 wrote: I never know when you're serious.


Advantage spot, spot serves for the set

I dislocated my daughter's arm once, but I viewed it then and since as educational. Why I don't think I should have brought up children at all is the number of times I failed to kill them only through good luck.
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Post by spot »

Jester;924128 wrote: Does that mean I have to put up with real british nannys, like on that TV show?

I want sexier ones though, are american nannies sexier? :wah:


Attempting to tup the nanny comes high on the list of British solecisms. I speak as one who employed a succession of them. It truly would be bad bad form.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by Accountable »

spot;924113 wrote: Advantage spot, unless you're interested in communication.
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Post by spot »

Accountable;924180 wrote: unless you're interested in communication.


But you keep refusing to believe I mean what I say!
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by flopstock »

spot;923612 wrote: You feel she should have done more on the day to ensure her child's safety?


I think if you could ask her yourself, Spot - she almost definitely is feeling she could have done more to ensure her childs safety. She will be questioning herself on the events of this day for the rest of her life. I know that I would be.

The mother in me just hopes she can find a moments rest.
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Post by Accountable »

spot;924184 wrote: But you keep refusing to believe I mean what I say!
So where's your advantage?
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Post by flopstock »

Jester;923752 wrote: .................If I were the DA I'd not file any charges. The publicised story and the tragedy itself is punishment enough and it gets the message out about being careful where your child is at all times.


I don't think it is possible to know where your child is at all times.:thinking:

Tragic accidents happen every day. There was a time when we started out feeling sorry for the folks involved and then if we discovered later that there was culpability, we would revise our thoughts.

In this day and age we immediately have to apply blame. Personally, I think compassion and empathy should be the more readily applied reaction. Then again, I don't like folks -generally speaking:D, so I may just feel I have to go that extra yard in giving them a break in order to compensate.:thinking:

http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/ ... n-hot-car/

........................

Since 1998, more than 376 children across the country have died after being left in hot vehicles, said Jan Null, an adjunct professor of meteorology at San Francisco State University, who maintains an accounting. The 90-degree high in Herndon on Tuesday would have made the air temperature inside the Yukon higher than 130 degrees, he said................

Null said in about half the cases of heat-related car deaths he has tracked, the parent or other driver simply forgot about the child. In 30 percent, children got into cars to play and became trapped. In the rest, children were left on purpose while caregivers did other business. This week, an infant died in Tennessee when the baby's mother went to a bar, Null said.

In the accidental cases, "a lot of times, looking at the circumstances, it's when there's a change of routine with the parents," Null said. Busy parents can use reminders: Put a stuffed animal in the front passenger seat, or a purse or briefcase in the back beside the car seat, he said.............
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.

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Post by spot »

Accountable;924203 wrote: So where's your advantage?


I can't imagine how anyone can think I'm not being serious except when I'm deliberately attempting humour, which might happen once a year since I'm so bad at it. Just assume I'm speaking my real mind.

I didn't, as it happens, have the government in mind for bringing up children. Once they're stable and healthy and no longer being transitioned out of their birth facility at say a month old they should pass to large-scale crèches. It's my fault for using "State crèche" to indicate that these competitive firms should be nation-scale organizations. I dislike the idea of government involvement in running anything whatever, all government should do is set the rules for the playing field on behalf of the citizens. Even enforcement should be a contracted out policing to rigidly enforce those rules. Have I never gone near this sort of territory before? I'm sure I have.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924225 wrote: I can't imagine how anyone can think I'm not being serious except when I'm deliberately attempting humour, which might happen once a year since I'm so bad at it. Just assume I'm speaking my real mind.

I didn't, as it happens, have the government in mind for bringing up children. Once they're stable and healthy and no longer being transitioned out of their birth facility at say a month old they should pass to large-scale crèches. It's my fault for using "State crèche" to indicate that these competitive firms should be nation-scale organizations. I dislike the idea of government involvement in running anything whatever, all government should do is set the rules for the playing field on behalf of the citizens. Even enforcement should be a contracted out policing to rigidly enforce those rules. Have I never gone near this sort of territory before? I'm sure I have.


At what point does love fit in to all of this?...

Much too cynical of a view for this...I can't help but to picture children being hooked up to troughs only to be put to bed in rooms that look all exactly the same...Zombies of the living...

You feel the majority of the world is unethical?...If so, are there exceptions?...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924278 wrote: At what point does love fit in to all of this?...

Much too cynical of a view for this...I can't help but to picture children being hooked up to troughs only to be put to bed in rooms that look all exactly the same...Zombies of the living...

You feel the majority of the world is unethical?...If so, are there exceptions?...


The people who do most of the loving at the moment get the least salaries. There's enough of them to staff these places, do all the loving very professionally and finally get a proper living wage out of it.

The vast majority of the world's laws, lawgivers and law enforcers are unethical. The nearer you approach powerlessness the nearer you get to the possibility of ethical living.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924331 wrote: The people who do most of the loving at the moment get the least salaries. There's enough of them to staff these places, do all the loving very professionally and finally get a proper living wage out of it.

The vast majority of the world's laws, lawgivers and law enforcers are unethical. The nearer you approach powerlessness the nearer you get to the possibility of ethical living.


You base immorality off of experience whereas many may not...

By this you would have to guarantee that the number of unethical crimes being committed by this scenario would be lower than it is now...And by this you would ultimately have to agree that each child would be complacent in the lack of hours of attention they would otherwise get in their families' homes(Granted your stance on this illustrates your desire to rid the world of the word family, is that not right?)...

Upon children being subject to less attention how is it that you feel they would be properly raised with such minimal teaching?...

How many "Parents" in this case would be a sufficient "Parent" for what number of children?...
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;923712 wrote: Hear that loud sucking sound? It's society going down the drain.



Diluting responsibility relieves everyone of any responsibility at all. The result is people looking around & not seeing the kid that was supposed to be there and assuming someone else must be taking care of it. Everyone involved is allowed to do so.



Your post seems to imply it wasn't the mother's responsibility to ensure you'd be a trustworthy nanny.


Having assured herself of that when first engaging the nanny, is it then her responsibility to check that the nanny is still being responsible on a daily (or hourly) basis?
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924344 wrote: You base immorality off of experience whereas many may not...

By this you would have to guarantee that the number of unethical crimes being committed by this scenario would be lower than it is now...And by this you would ultimately have to agree that each child would be complacent in the lack of hours of attention they would otherwise get in their families' homes(Granted your stance on this illustrates your desire to rid the world of the word family, is that not right?)...

Upon children being subject to less attention how is it that you feel they would be properly raised with such minimal teaching?...

How many "Parents" in this case would be a sufficient "Parent" for what number of children?...


Families are the reason most of the screwed up people are screwed up.

I'd have thought one adult on duty for every dozen children would be about right for the first few years, fading out to one for twenty by the time they're moving out permanently into independence. So long as none of these children have ever been corrupted by family influences I'm sure such a system would help them grow into wonderful balanced adults.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924354 wrote: Families are the reason most of the screwed up people are screwed up.

I'd have thought one adult on duty for every dozen children would be about right for the first few years, fading out to one for twenty by the time they're moving out permanently into independence. So long as none of these children have ever been corrupted by family influences I'm sure such a system would help them grow into wonderful balanced adults.


Roughly 167,000,000 people to change diapers, feed, punish, and to love along with teaching them an adequate education to meet to societies expectation of 12 screaming and whining kids each every day for the extent of 18-20 years...

:wah:...Good luck on that...:wah:
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924388 wrote: Roughly 167,000,000 people to change diapers, feed, punish, and to love along with teaching them an adequate education to meet to societies expectation of 12 screaming and whining kids each every day for the extent of 18-20 years...

:wah:...Good luck on that...:wah:


That figure's for what size population?

It would be more easy to follow if you broke it down for, say, an average million in a specified country.

167 million is obviously a larger figure than you'd need for the entire planet.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;924345 wrote: Having assured herself of that when first engaging the nanny, is it then her responsibility to check that the nanny is still being responsible on a daily (or hourly) basis?
I'm no micro-manager. If she trusts the nanny she trusts the nanny, but that trust in no way relieves her of her responsibility.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924415 wrote: That figure's for what size population?

It would be more easy to follow if you broke it down for, say, an average million in a specified country.

167 million is obviously a larger figure than you'd need for the entire planet.


There are roughly 2,000,000 children in the world...And to be honest estimating the worlds' population of children at 2,000,000 is being conservative...

It would be far easier to take children away from their parents as well as before hand upon the overall jurisprudence for "Parents" being suitable to raise their own children...That's to say if you're not murdered by them in doing so...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924430 wrote: There are roughly 2,000,000 children in the world...And to be honest estimating the worlds' population of children at 2,000,000 is being conservative...That would be one child in each three thousand people. Can we please, just for simplicity, stick to "so many people per million"? Or do it on world populations if you like, but at least explain how you get your totals so I can check what you're getting at.

I'm not all that interested in changing the non-Western world, none of my thinking applies to it, I've no experience of it to go on.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924445 wrote: That would be one child in each three thousand people. Can we please, just for simplicity, stick to "so many people per million"? Or do it on world populations if you like, but at least explain how you get your totals so I can check what you're getting at.

I'm not all that interested in changing the non-Western world, none of my thinking applies to it, I've no experience of it to go on.


I hadn't once read that you were only speaking in terms of the non western world from my initial question towards you...

It's apparent you feel non westerners are more ethical than westerners including you and your children...
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;924416 wrote: I'm no micro-manager. If she trusts the nanny she trusts the nanny, but that trust in no way relieves her of her responsibility.


If she is still directly responsible for the child whilst it is in the hands of the nanny then she has no option but to micro manage.

Either she has handed over responsibility to the duly checked and trusted nanny or she keeps the child with her. She cannot hand over the child and leave taking the responsibility with her. The nanny, accepting the custody of the child, is in loco parentis and therefore responsible.

Consider the case of a child in school. As soon as the child passes through the school gates it is the school's responsibility to take all reasonable care and, in the event of an accident, it is the schools responsibility and not the parents.

To me, new facts to the contrary excepted, the nanny appears to be at fault. She was told she was to have all the children and yet, when she found she had not she assumed a change of plan without checking.

If the story as told is true then the mother had no reason to believe anything other than that the child was with the nanny as arranged.

I find it hard to blame the mother on the facts provided.
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924466 wrote: I hadn't once read that you were only speaking in terms of the non western world from my initial question towards you...I'm only speaking in terms of the WESTERN world!
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924484 wrote: I'm only speaking in terms of the WESTERN world!


The exact scope of the Western world is somewhat subjective in nature, depending on whether cultural, economic or political criteria are used. In general however these definitions always include the following countries: the countries of Western Europe (UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc), the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_wo ... efinitions



From a cultural and sociological approach the Western world is defined as including all cultures that are (directly derived from) European cultures, i.e. Europe, the Americas (North and South America), Australia and New Zealand. Together these countries constitute Western society


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#Cultural

Which is the point in subject we're discussing...

Are you not from the UK?...Or would you like to broaden your definitions of "WESTERN" world to maybe just the US, Mexico, and Canada?...South America?...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924497 wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_wo ... efinitions



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#Cultural

Which is the point in subject we're discussing...

Are you not from the UK?...Or would you like to broaden your definitions of "WESTERN" world to maybe just the US, Mexico, and Canada?...South America?...


Seriously, I have no idea where you're trying to take this. The Western world is a dead simple concept. The culture and civilization of Western Europe, North America and Australasia. Everyone on the planet surely means that and nothing else. It's what you'd have counted as The West against The Soviets, surely.

I'd have thought one adult on duty for every dozen children would be about right for the first few years, fading out to one for twenty by the time they're moving out permanently into independence. So long as none of these children have ever been corrupted by family influences I'm sure such a system would help them grow into wonderful balanced adults.

Taking England as a sample population, there are 50 million people here. 11 million of them are under 18. They'd need 2 million staff if they all lived in crèche and dormitories instead of families.

Even assuming 80% of mothers with children under 18 work (in fact it's only 65% of just those with children under 5 rising to 80% above), that's over 2 million who keep house while their children are growing. Employing crèche and dormitory staff instead takes fewer people from the workforce to bring up the country's children, not more.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;924476 wrote: If she is still directly responsible for the child whilst it is in the hands of the nanny then she has no option but to micro manage.



Either she has handed over responsibility to the duly checked and trusted nanny or she keeps the child with her. She cannot hand over the child and leave taking the responsibility with her. The nanny, accepting the custody of the child, is in loco parentis and therefore responsible.



Consider the case of a child in school. As soon as the child passes through the school gates it is the school's responsibility to take all reasonable care and, in the event of an accident, it is the schools responsibility and not the parents.



To me, new facts to the contrary excepted, the nanny appears to be at fault. She was told she was to have all the children and yet, when she found she had not she assumed a change of plan without checking.



If the story as told is true then the mother had no reason to believe anything other than that the child was with the nanny as arranged.



I find it hard to blame the mother on the facts provided.
I'm not talking legality. I'll leave that to the legalists. It's parents' responsibility to raise the child as they see fit. It's their responsibility to duly check the nanny and determine trustworthyness. The simple passing of the child from hand to hand doesn't relieve the responsibility. The parents have a responsibility to the child to put them in safe situations, regardless of legal jargon, finger-pointing, or anything else. The parents are ultimately responsible.



Their responsibility doesn't end when the child enters school, either. If it did I'd have a few extra hours free that I now spend on the phone or in conference. ;) They are responsible to see that the gov't does it's job while the child is in their care. The parents are ultimately responsible.



I don't "blame" the mother either. She did all she felt was necessary. Stuff happens. But I don't believe for one second that she sleeps easily at night thinking that she wasn't responsible.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924524 wrote: Seriously, I have no idea where you're trying to take this. The Western world is a dead simple concept. The culture and civilization of Western Europe, North America and Australasia. Everyone on the planet surely means that and nothing else. It's what you'd have counted as The West against The Soviets, surely.

I'd have thought one adult on duty for every dozen children would be about right for the first few years, fading out to one for twenty by the time they're moving out permanently into independence. So long as none of these children have ever been corrupted by family influences I'm sure such a system would help them grow into wonderful balanced adults.

Taking England as a sample population, there are 50 million people here. 11 million of them are under 18. They'd need 2 million staff if they all lived in crèche and dormitories instead of families.

Even assuming 80% of mothers with children under 18 work (in fact it's only 65% of just those with children under 5 rising to 80% above), that's over 2 million who keep house while their children are growing. Employing crèche and dormitory staff instead takes fewer people from the workforce to bring up the country's children, not more.


Where I'm taking it is what are the exceptions?...Does every child to whoms been born within western society be forced to be separated from their families?...If so where does that leave the people like myself, and I'll presume the likes of yourself and your family who are ethical?...If not what's the defining clause in stripping children from their "influences" of their "families"?

All of the western world is not unethical, only some...To think that way is beyond cynical it's downright close minded...

Their is a difference between suggestions and influences...Some may look at a suggestion and see it as an influence but that doesn't serve the person to whom is being asked as to their contentment any justice as far as their morales are concerned...Much like the argument that watching a video is the primary reason as to why some people kill...But that's another topic...

You don't jail someone because it's been known that others with similar upbringings have killed before them...Even if alot of people within that upbringing has killed...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924559 wrote: Where I'm taking it is what are the exceptions?...Does every child to whoms been born within western society be forced to be separated from their families?It can come in over a number of generations of course. The way that produces the most successful children will win out eventually. It's been done already here and there - the Kibbutzim spring to mind, as a group they're a great credit to those who brought them up and an admirable set of adults.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924623 wrote: It can come in over a number of generations of course. The way that produces the most successful children will win out eventually. It's been done already here and there - the Kibbutzim spring to mind, as a group they're a great credit to those who brought them up and an admirable set of adults.


A price to pay are your children...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924632 wrote: A price to pay are your children...


No, they're all grown. I can imagine their children placing babies into that sort of facility though. I'd be in favour of them doing that.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924640 wrote: No, they're all grown. I can imagine their children placing babies into that sort of facility though. I'd be in favour of them doing that.


Hypothetically speaking you wouldn't mind it had this been implemented upon the day you did have them?...
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Accountable;924553 wrote: I'm not talking legality. I'll leave that to the legalists. It's parents' responsibility to raise the child as they see fit. It's their responsibility to duly check the nanny and determine trustworthyness. The simple passing of the child from hand to hand doesn't relieve the responsibility. The parents have a responsibility to the child to put them in safe situations, regardless of legal jargon, finger-pointing, or anything else. The parents are ultimately responsible.



Their responsibility doesn't end when the child enters school, either. If it did I'd have a few extra hours free that I now spend on the phone or in conference. ;) They are responsible to see that the gov't does it's job while the child is in their care. The parents are ultimately responsible.



I don't "blame" the mother either. She did all she felt was necessary. Stuff happens. But I don't believe for one second that she sleeps easily at night thinking that she wasn't responsible.


I wasn't thinking legalise either, I was thinking day to day practicality. There's "ultimate responsibility" and there's legal responsibility and there's life. If you have taken due care to select a reliable and trustworthy nanny and have passed your child into their care then you cannot continue to carry the day to day responsibility for that child's safety in absentina - if that were the case then it would be impossible to ever leave your child's side.

I agree, there is no way the mother will ever forgive herself - whether she was directly at fault or not. I just feel that holding her directly responsible for the death of the child is harsh (assuming, as always, that the facts as told are true and reasonably complete).
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924644 wrote: Hypothetically speaking you wouldn't mind it had this been implemented upon the day you did have them?...


I'd have lived a far different life and the children would have turned out nicer. I'd be all for it. I was a lousy dad.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by Accountable »

Bryn Mawr;924653 wrote: I wasn't thinking legalise either, I was thinking day to day practicality. There's "ultimate responsibility" and there's legal responsibility and there's life. If you have taken due care to select a reliable and trustworthy nanny and have passed your child into their care then you cannot continue to carry the day to day responsibility for that child's safety in absentina - if that were the case then it would be impossible to ever leave your child's side.



I agree, there is no way the mother will ever forgive herself - whether she was directly at fault or not. I just feel that holding her directly responsible for the death of the child is harsh (assuming, as always, that the facts as told are true and reasonably complete).
I think we agree, just differ semantically. If I'm the supervisor and delegate a task to an employee, the manager's still going to chew on me if she messes up, so I'm responsible for the employee's performance - and the manager's responsible for any decisions I make. That's the view I'm taking with parenting. It's the parents' responsibility that they delegate to a (hopefully) qualified surrogate.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;924657 wrote: I'd have lived a far different life and the children would have turned out nicer. I'd be all for it. I was a lousy dad.


I'm asking if you wouldn't have minded, upon your preference to have peoples' children taken away from them all to ensure a respectful upbringing, had it been implemented while you hadn't been subject to the very same principals...Hypothetically speaking...
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Post by Accountable »

Just because a certain practice works for one culture doesn't mean it will work for any culture. What's best for them may not be best for us.
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Post by K.Snyder »

Accountable;924740 wrote: Just because a certain practice works for one culture doesn't mean it will work for any culture. What's best for them may not be best for us.


The argument is the installation of ethical ideology is prevalent to children regardless of their heredity...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;924732 wrote: I'm asking if you wouldn't have minded, upon your preference to have peoples' children taken away from them all to ensure a respectful upbringing, had it been implemented while you hadn't been subject to the very same principals...Hypothetically speaking...
"I'd be all for it. I was a lousy dad". How could I have minded if that's my opinion?

I don't want any child to have a respectful upbringing, I want them all to appreciate the desirability of disrespect. It's undeserving parents demanding respect that cause most of the problems in the first place. Disrespect for authority is healthy.

Accountable;924740 wrote: Just because a certain practice works for one culture doesn't mean it will work for any culture. What's best for them may not be best for us.


That's exactly why I'm limiting my application to Western society.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;925055 wrote: "I'd be all for it. I was a lousy dad". How could I have minded if that's my opinion?




I have no idea...
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;925060 wrote: I have no idea...


So, then. No. I expect I'd have been immensely grateful, as would they.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by RedGlitter »

It's undeserving parents demanding respect that cause most of the problems in the first place. Disrespect for authority is healthy.


Holy salt lick! Spot and I agree wholly on something!

:yh_hypno
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Post by K.Snyder »

spot;925062 wrote: So, then. No. I expect I'd have been immensely grateful, as would they.


I'm sure they would...

Don't get me wrong spot...I admire that you want what's best for your children...I just have no idea how you could give them up...I mean I give you the benefit of the doubt in being able to raise them with respect...
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Post by spot »

fuzzy butt;924759 wrote: You know I've been reading this whole thread thinking only one thing.......And it's rather sad.......It seems none of us is allowed to be human anymore.


Unless someone's lied to try to cover up a criminal mistake, just taking the events reported as accurate, I can't see a single thing this poor woman could possibly have done - on her wedding day, of all days! - to minimise the risk to her boy any further than she did. I find her faultless. To go from that position to one in which the Internet's labelling her as "Dumb Mom", "foolish woman", "stupid parent" says everything about the posters and nothing at all about the mother.

It's one thing for a bereaved mother to endlessly blame herself despite her lack of guilt, that's natural. It's appalling when the world does it to her in a thread like this.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by spot »

K.Snyder;925067 wrote: I'm sure they would...

Don't get me wrong spot...I admire that you want what's best for your children...I just have no idea how you could give them up...I mean I give you the benefit of the doubt in being able to raise them with respect...


Nothing could be further from the truth. They all think I'm wrong-minded, contrary, ignorant and incapable. it took a lot of effort on my part to get them thinking that way.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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