Let's speculate. Call it a collaborate novel, if you must.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
What if the US withdrew?
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
-
nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
What if the US withdrew?
I'm not sure we could do it. I think a couple of select countries would have to join us in resigning from world interaction - I would choose Japan, the British Isles, Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. I think it would scare the bejeezus out of some countries. Maybe the terrorists would leave us alone. I need to think about this some more.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
What if the US withdrew?
Hmm- I beleive that if we attempted it- nothing would change with the terroists any ways..For to many years we have stepped on peoples toes and not taken care of our own..Our soilders are paying the price - that we have put out there- from greediness to laziness...I honestly don't think things would be better for the goverment- the oil prices, the economy in general..We recieve almost all of our clothing and half of our commodities from over seas...With out the treatys and such - we would be a "nothing Land" - Good post and that is certainly JMO!
~~The Family~~
Happiness is knowing where you come from...
Who you are...
And why you are here.....
-
telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
What if the US withdrew?
If we closed every military base we would leave some other countries undefended. Some of them count on us. We hate being seen as a world bully. Imagine how we'd feel being seen as a world coward. A balanced approach would be desirable.
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world...
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world...
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
Look what the cat dragged in.
What if the US withdrew?
The world would scream foul. We would have civil unrest at home because we wouldn’t be able to go to the big box department stores and buy anything our hearts desired. Our economy would grind to a halt then it would slowly build up to be stronger than it ever was. People would die in the process because of the war with China, who only holds back because of the money we pour into their economy. We would have a major political clean up at every level of government here because our world class politicians wouldn’t be able to hide what they are doing in the confusion of geopolitics. It would be painful but………………..
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
-
nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
What if the US withdrew?
So Clint - do you think it would bring our industry back home? I think it would. And yes we would struggle for some time but it might also spark the butts of researchers to find an end to our energy crisis. We would have to either lower the cost of living or raise the minimum wage - I vote for the former. Interesting to think about though - could America survive without the rest of the world?
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
What if the US withdrew?
Accountable wrote: Let's speculate. Call it a collaborate novel, if you must.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Is it not all of the above points that the terrorists REALLY want to happen?
Sure let's ALL bend over and kiss the good ol USA and her values GOOD BYE.........
But then again......... It just might be the best thing we could do. Allie with Canada, England, Australia, Mexico and anyone else that wants to align with us, then tell all others to P*ss up a rope.
I'll buy that.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Is it not all of the above points that the terrorists REALLY want to happen?
Sure let's ALL bend over and kiss the good ol USA and her values GOOD BYE.........
But then again......... It just might be the best thing we could do. Allie with Canada, England, Australia, Mexico and anyone else that wants to align with us, then tell all others to P*ss up a rope.
I'll buy that.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
What if the US withdrew?
posted by accountable
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
The rest of the world would keep on playing football (that's soccer to you)
Let's see price of oil drops as US demand disappears. World commodities prices fluctuate wildly at first but stabilise as exporters find new markets in europe and asia. With the economy that previously sucked in 25% of the worlds resources no longer trading economies at first falter but then adapt rapidly to a new reality. Factories in the far east formerly manufacturing for the american market also switch to new markets but prices plummet due to ever capacity. There is an upsurge in demand for consumer electrical goods and increase in innovation as increased competition due to over capacity triggers a wave of innovation. European and chinese Linux developers and the open source movement see a massive surge in demand as microsoft's stranglehold on innovation is broken, For the first time computer software becomes cheap and reliable and the old days of blue screens and constant hack attacks fades in to memory as the accessability of linux leads to a generation of highly computer literate individuals throughout the world. Global warming is back on the agenda as it's effect on agriculture becomes increasingly apparent steps re taken to divert resources and research effort in to new fuel sources. Relieved of the need to spend on the military the Russian space programme starts up again at first in competition with the chineses but later joint ventures with chinese and european space agencies. Taiwan at first hostile is forced out of economic necessity to trade with mainland china taking advantage of it's manufacturing expertise, cambodia and vietnam and japan all start looking to china and each other for new markets and opportunities. Hard line communism becomes a thing of the past as people begin to appreciate a new freedom. Monty Python shown for the first time on chinese TV starts of a new satirical movement in china. Without US backing rulers kike the saudis can no longer keep controls losing out to fundamentalists. Civil war in the middle east finally grind to a halt as fundamentalist regimes finally lose the support of their peoples and sunnis are no longer prepared to go on killing shias secular governments take control. EU countries keep out of it as there is no desire for colonial adventures besides which oil reserves in Russia are available for exploitation by shell and BP. Exxon tries to get a share but no longer has the ability to keep up in the technological race as all the expatriate scientists and engineers leave an america increasingly in the grip of fundamentalist christians who ban the teaching of science as unbiblical and cut the funding for those educational establishments who fail to comply. Social unrest caused by hundreds oand thousands of unemployed ex servicemen strengthens the hand of the christian right wing as people seek answers in the bible to the world around them. All outside neews castiung is banned and america turns increasingly in on itself. Satire is banned as ungodly and disrespectful and religious jokes can lead to a jail sentence. To try and ease male unemployment women are banned from working if they marry so there job may be given to the head of a household and women keep to their natural function of child rearing. The banning of contraception leads to a population explosion and the church charities struggle to cope with the inner city dietitute. In 2030 there is massive crop failure throughout the US that blights corn production. The monoculture of genetically altered and all pervasive monsanto seeds means there are no alternatives available as all organically grown crops were banned in 2020 as the monsanto halliburton act prevented farmers from using their own seed stock ensuring there was no competition for gm crops. Perceived as an act of god christian fundamentalists start burning environmantalists and evolutionary scientists in an attempt to finally stamp out the rot of disbelief that caused the crop failure. Appalled all EUcountries finally cut diplomatic ties with america altogether. Attempts are made to import from abroad but with the dollar only worth 0.20 euros this is not a viable option. With no trade greements EU and african countries don't want to take the risk of trading with an increasingly unstable country. Canada erects a fence round it's borders to try and control the number of armed americans trying to cross in to canada for a better life. Mexico passes the anglo act allowing only hispanics to cross their borders and work on their farms and factories and institutes border patrols to keep out illegal immigrants. Desperate the US goes cap in hand to the UN asking for aid but has a problem in that it does not recognise the UN as a political body. The EU offers aid out of a sense of nostalgia for what once was but only if it is used to implement social programmes of education and health care to try and bring america back in to the 21st century. This smacks of communism so the offer is rejected. The French demand the statue of liberty back but the americans don't get the irony and sulk. Brazil, columbia and Venezuela offer aid but only if the US opens up its markets to their products and agricultural produce. In 2050 the cuban exiles in Florida declare independence and ask to join with Cuba as a client state.
India finally takes on Pakistan, without american aid and spare parts for it's F16 the Indian eurofighters and challenger tanks soon overwhelm moslem pakistan. eventually peace is made and the two continue their separate ways. Afghanistan remains a primitive backwater nobody cares about.
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Stop kidding yourselves. the world would survive.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
The rest of the world would keep on playing football (that's soccer to you)
Let's see price of oil drops as US demand disappears. World commodities prices fluctuate wildly at first but stabilise as exporters find new markets in europe and asia. With the economy that previously sucked in 25% of the worlds resources no longer trading economies at first falter but then adapt rapidly to a new reality. Factories in the far east formerly manufacturing for the american market also switch to new markets but prices plummet due to ever capacity. There is an upsurge in demand for consumer electrical goods and increase in innovation as increased competition due to over capacity triggers a wave of innovation. European and chinese Linux developers and the open source movement see a massive surge in demand as microsoft's stranglehold on innovation is broken, For the first time computer software becomes cheap and reliable and the old days of blue screens and constant hack attacks fades in to memory as the accessability of linux leads to a generation of highly computer literate individuals throughout the world. Global warming is back on the agenda as it's effect on agriculture becomes increasingly apparent steps re taken to divert resources and research effort in to new fuel sources. Relieved of the need to spend on the military the Russian space programme starts up again at first in competition with the chineses but later joint ventures with chinese and european space agencies. Taiwan at first hostile is forced out of economic necessity to trade with mainland china taking advantage of it's manufacturing expertise, cambodia and vietnam and japan all start looking to china and each other for new markets and opportunities. Hard line communism becomes a thing of the past as people begin to appreciate a new freedom. Monty Python shown for the first time on chinese TV starts of a new satirical movement in china. Without US backing rulers kike the saudis can no longer keep controls losing out to fundamentalists. Civil war in the middle east finally grind to a halt as fundamentalist regimes finally lose the support of their peoples and sunnis are no longer prepared to go on killing shias secular governments take control. EU countries keep out of it as there is no desire for colonial adventures besides which oil reserves in Russia are available for exploitation by shell and BP. Exxon tries to get a share but no longer has the ability to keep up in the technological race as all the expatriate scientists and engineers leave an america increasingly in the grip of fundamentalist christians who ban the teaching of science as unbiblical and cut the funding for those educational establishments who fail to comply. Social unrest caused by hundreds oand thousands of unemployed ex servicemen strengthens the hand of the christian right wing as people seek answers in the bible to the world around them. All outside neews castiung is banned and america turns increasingly in on itself. Satire is banned as ungodly and disrespectful and religious jokes can lead to a jail sentence. To try and ease male unemployment women are banned from working if they marry so there job may be given to the head of a household and women keep to their natural function of child rearing. The banning of contraception leads to a population explosion and the church charities struggle to cope with the inner city dietitute. In 2030 there is massive crop failure throughout the US that blights corn production. The monoculture of genetically altered and all pervasive monsanto seeds means there are no alternatives available as all organically grown crops were banned in 2020 as the monsanto halliburton act prevented farmers from using their own seed stock ensuring there was no competition for gm crops. Perceived as an act of god christian fundamentalists start burning environmantalists and evolutionary scientists in an attempt to finally stamp out the rot of disbelief that caused the crop failure. Appalled all EUcountries finally cut diplomatic ties with america altogether. Attempts are made to import from abroad but with the dollar only worth 0.20 euros this is not a viable option. With no trade greements EU and african countries don't want to take the risk of trading with an increasingly unstable country. Canada erects a fence round it's borders to try and control the number of armed americans trying to cross in to canada for a better life. Mexico passes the anglo act allowing only hispanics to cross their borders and work on their farms and factories and institutes border patrols to keep out illegal immigrants. Desperate the US goes cap in hand to the UN asking for aid but has a problem in that it does not recognise the UN as a political body. The EU offers aid out of a sense of nostalgia for what once was but only if it is used to implement social programmes of education and health care to try and bring america back in to the 21st century. This smacks of communism so the offer is rejected. The French demand the statue of liberty back but the americans don't get the irony and sulk. Brazil, columbia and Venezuela offer aid but only if the US opens up its markets to their products and agricultural produce. In 2050 the cuban exiles in Florida declare independence and ask to join with Cuba as a client state.
India finally takes on Pakistan, without american aid and spare parts for it's F16 the Indian eurofighters and challenger tanks soon overwhelm moslem pakistan. eventually peace is made and the two continue their separate ways. Afghanistan remains a primitive backwater nobody cares about.
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Stop kidding yourselves. the world would survive.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
mominiowa wrote: Hmm- I beleive that if we attempted it- nothing would change with the terroists any ways..For to many years we have stepped on peoples toes and not taken care of our own..Our soilders are paying the price - that we have put out there- from greediness to laziness...I honestly don't think things would be better for the goverment- the oil prices, the economy in general..We recieve almost all of our clothing and half of our commodities from over seas...With out the treatys and such - we would be a "nothing Land" - Good post and that is certainly JMO!
This kind of strikes to the heart of my point. I believe we are linking politics and trade; I also believe it is unnecessary. If we pulled our soldiers out they would not pay any price unless we were attacked on our own soil. Let the giant corporations negotiate trade. what would it hurt?
This kind of strikes to the heart of my point. I believe we are linking politics and trade; I also believe it is unnecessary. If we pulled our soldiers out they would not pay any price unless we were attacked on our own soil. Let the giant corporations negotiate trade. what would it hurt?
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
telaquapacky wrote: If we closed every military base we would leave some other countries undefended. Some of them count on us. We hate being seen as a world bully. Imagine how we'd feel being seen as a world coward. A balanced approach would be desirable..
Interesting that you think we'd be called cowards for doing exactly what many of the other countries' citizens are calling and have been calling for us to do. And what impact would it have anyway? Why is it so important that small weak countries like us?
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world....
Agreed. Wouldn't that make our point that we are not the ones stirring this up? Wouldn't this finally get EU off their butts an defend themselves?
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
That's the double-edge of freedom. It's been said here in the garden that one can't force democracy.
Interesting that you think we'd be called cowards for doing exactly what many of the other countries' citizens are calling and have been calling for us to do. And what impact would it have anyway? Why is it so important that small weak countries like us?
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world....
Agreed. Wouldn't that make our point that we are not the ones stirring this up? Wouldn't this finally get EU off their butts an defend themselves?
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
That's the double-edge of freedom. It's been said here in the garden that one can't force democracy.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
Clint wrote: The world would scream foul. We would have civil unrest at home because we wouldn’t be able to go to the big box department stores and buy anything our hearts desired. Our economy would grind to a halt then it would slowly build up to be stronger than it ever was.
:yh_flag Because that's the American way! Love it!
People would die in the process because of the war with China, who only holds back because of the money we pour into their economy.
You really think they would attack us on our own soil? And aren't the big international corporations the ones who are really pouring in the money?
We would have a major political clean up at every level of government here because our world class politicians wouldn’t be able to hide what they are doing in the confusion of geopolitics. It would be painful but………………..
Sounds like it's not such a bad thing. :yh_glasse
:yh_flag Because that's the American way! Love it!
People would die in the process because of the war with China, who only holds back because of the money we pour into their economy.
You really think they would attack us on our own soil? And aren't the big international corporations the ones who are really pouring in the money?
We would have a major political clean up at every level of government here because our world class politicians wouldn’t be able to hide what they are doing in the confusion of geopolitics. It would be painful but………………..
Sounds like it's not such a bad thing. :yh_glasse
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
gmc wrote: Let's see price of oil drops as US demand disappears. World commodities prices fluctuate wildly at first but stabilise as exporters find new markets in europe and asia. With the economy that previously sucked in 25% of the worlds resources no longer trading economies at first falter but then adapt rapidly to a new reality. Factories in the far east formerly manufacturing for the american market also switch to new markets but prices plummet due to ever capacity. There is an upsurge in demand for consumer electrical goods and increase in innovation as increased competition due to over capacity triggers a wave of innovation. European and chinese Linux developers and the open source movement see a massive surge in demand as microsoft's stranglehold on innovation is broken, For the first time computer software becomes cheap and reliable and the old days of blue screens and constant hack attacks fades in to memory as the accessability of linux leads to a generation of highly computer literate individuals throughout the world. Global warming is back on the agenda as it's effect on agriculture becomes increasingly apparent steps re taken to divert resources and research effort in to new fuel sources.
I'm not so sure there will be tremendous economic impact on the world. Most of the US corporations are really global now. I realize I may be in fantasyland here, but that's why I started the thread: to help crystalize an opinion.
Relieved of the need to spend on the military the Russian space programme starts up again at first in competition with the chineses but later joint ventures with chinese and european space agencies. Taiwan at first hostile is forced out of economic necessity to trade with mainland china taking advantage of it's manufacturing expertise, cambodia and vietnam and japan all start looking to china and each other for new markets and opportunities. Hard line communism becomes a thing of the past as people begin to appreciate a new freedom. Monty Python shown for the first time on chinese TV starts of a new satirical movement in china. All good things! Especially rejuvenating satire.
Without US backing rulers kike the saudis can no longer keep controls losing out to fundamentalists. Civil war in the middle east finally grind to a halt as fundamentalist regimes finally lose the support of their peoples and sunnis are no longer prepared to go on killing shias secular governments take control.An original goal of ours, right?
EU countries keep out of it as there is no desire for colonial adventures besides which oil reserves in Russia are available for exploitation by shell and BP. Exxon tries to get a share but no longer has the ability to keep up in the technological race as all the expatriate scientists and engineers leave an america increasingly in the grip of fundamentalist christians who ban the teaching of science as unbiblical and cut the funding for those educational establishments who fail to comply. :yh_rotfl Social unrest caused by hundreds oand thousands of unemployed ex servicemen strengthens the hand of the christian right wing as people seek answers in the bible to the world around them. All outside neews castiung is banned and america turns increasingly in on itself. Satire is banned as ungodly and disrespectful and religious jokes can lead to a jail sentence. To try and ease male unemployment women are banned from working if they marry so there job may be given to the head of a household and women keep to their natural function of child rearing. The banning of contraception leads to a population explosion and the church charities struggle to cope with the inner city dietitute. In 2030 there is massive crop failure throughout the US that blights corn production. The monoculture of genetically altered and all pervasive monsanto seeds means there are no alternatives available as all organically grown crops were banned in 2020 as the monsanto halliburton act prevented farmers from using their own seed stock ensuring there was no competition for gm crops. Perceived as an act of god christian fundamentalists start burning environmantalists and evolutionary scientists in an attempt to finally stamp out the rot of disbelief that caused the crop failure. Appalled all EUcountries finally cut diplomatic ties with america altogether. Attempts are made to import from abroad but with the dollar only worth 0.20 euros this is not a viable option. With no trade greements EU and african countries don't want to take the risk of trading with an increasingly unstable country. Canada erects a fence round it's borders to try and control the number of armed americans trying to cross in to canada for a better life. Mexico passes the anglo act allowing only hispanics to cross their borders and work on their farms and factories and institutes border patrols to keep out illegal immigrants. Desperate the US goes cap in hand to the UN asking for aid but has a problem in that it does not recognise the UN as a political body. The EU offers aid out of a sense of nostalgia for what once was but only if it is used to implement social programmes of education and health care to try and bring america back in to the 21st century. This smacks of communism so the offer is rejected. The French demand the statue of liberty back but the americans don't get the irony and sulk. Brazil, columbia and Venezuela offer aid but only if the US opens up its markets to their products and agricultural produce. In 2050 the cuban exiles in Florida declare independence and ask to join with Cuba as a client state.
India finally takes on Pakistan, without american aid and spare parts for it's F16 the Indian eurofighters and challenger tanks soon overwhelm moslem pakistan. eventually peace is made and the two continue their separate ways. Afghanistan remains a primitive backwater nobody cares about.
Stop kidding yourselves. the world would survive.
:yh_rotfl I am SO glad I took the time to read the whole thing. My sides hurt.
I'm not so sure there will be tremendous economic impact on the world. Most of the US corporations are really global now. I realize I may be in fantasyland here, but that's why I started the thread: to help crystalize an opinion.
Relieved of the need to spend on the military the Russian space programme starts up again at first in competition with the chineses but later joint ventures with chinese and european space agencies. Taiwan at first hostile is forced out of economic necessity to trade with mainland china taking advantage of it's manufacturing expertise, cambodia and vietnam and japan all start looking to china and each other for new markets and opportunities. Hard line communism becomes a thing of the past as people begin to appreciate a new freedom. Monty Python shown for the first time on chinese TV starts of a new satirical movement in china. All good things! Especially rejuvenating satire.
Without US backing rulers kike the saudis can no longer keep controls losing out to fundamentalists. Civil war in the middle east finally grind to a halt as fundamentalist regimes finally lose the support of their peoples and sunnis are no longer prepared to go on killing shias secular governments take control.An original goal of ours, right?
EU countries keep out of it as there is no desire for colonial adventures besides which oil reserves in Russia are available for exploitation by shell and BP. Exxon tries to get a share but no longer has the ability to keep up in the technological race as all the expatriate scientists and engineers leave an america increasingly in the grip of fundamentalist christians who ban the teaching of science as unbiblical and cut the funding for those educational establishments who fail to comply. :yh_rotfl Social unrest caused by hundreds oand thousands of unemployed ex servicemen strengthens the hand of the christian right wing as people seek answers in the bible to the world around them. All outside neews castiung is banned and america turns increasingly in on itself. Satire is banned as ungodly and disrespectful and religious jokes can lead to a jail sentence. To try and ease male unemployment women are banned from working if they marry so there job may be given to the head of a household and women keep to their natural function of child rearing. The banning of contraception leads to a population explosion and the church charities struggle to cope with the inner city dietitute. In 2030 there is massive crop failure throughout the US that blights corn production. The monoculture of genetically altered and all pervasive monsanto seeds means there are no alternatives available as all organically grown crops were banned in 2020 as the monsanto halliburton act prevented farmers from using their own seed stock ensuring there was no competition for gm crops. Perceived as an act of god christian fundamentalists start burning environmantalists and evolutionary scientists in an attempt to finally stamp out the rot of disbelief that caused the crop failure. Appalled all EUcountries finally cut diplomatic ties with america altogether. Attempts are made to import from abroad but with the dollar only worth 0.20 euros this is not a viable option. With no trade greements EU and african countries don't want to take the risk of trading with an increasingly unstable country. Canada erects a fence round it's borders to try and control the number of armed americans trying to cross in to canada for a better life. Mexico passes the anglo act allowing only hispanics to cross their borders and work on their farms and factories and institutes border patrols to keep out illegal immigrants. Desperate the US goes cap in hand to the UN asking for aid but has a problem in that it does not recognise the UN as a political body. The EU offers aid out of a sense of nostalgia for what once was but only if it is used to implement social programmes of education and health care to try and bring america back in to the 21st century. This smacks of communism so the offer is rejected. The French demand the statue of liberty back but the americans don't get the irony and sulk. Brazil, columbia and Venezuela offer aid but only if the US opens up its markets to their products and agricultural produce. In 2050 the cuban exiles in Florida declare independence and ask to join with Cuba as a client state.
India finally takes on Pakistan, without american aid and spare parts for it's F16 the Indian eurofighters and challenger tanks soon overwhelm moslem pakistan. eventually peace is made and the two continue their separate ways. Afghanistan remains a primitive backwater nobody cares about.
Stop kidding yourselves. the world would survive.
:yh_rotfl I am SO glad I took the time to read the whole thing. My sides hurt.
What if the US withdrew?
nvalleyvee wrote: I'm not sure we could do it. I think a couple of select countries would have to join us in resigning from world interaction - I would choose Japan, the British Isles, Canada, Mexico and Venezuela. I think it would scare the bejeezus out of some countries. Maybe the terrorists would leave us alone. I need to think about this some more.I'm sure you'd have every justification in the world to choose Venezuela, given the size of their oil reserves, but would they go with you?
Any concerns the companies may have about contracts signed with previous Venezuelan governments can be handled by the courts, Chavez said, stressing that the country will prioritize making goods for itself rather than exporting raw materials, as in the past.
"Venezuela will never again be anyone's colony," said Chavez, a harsh critic of the U.S. government, which he says has exacerbated poverty through "imperialist" policies.
Chavez defended a move to increase taxes and royalties on foreign companies pumping oil in Venezuela, saying "we are defending our interests." It sounds very like "The period of one-sided decision-making is over" from yet another involuntary recipient of US foreign policy over the years. A sort of "don't call us, we'll call you" approach to laissez-faire sovereignty.
Any concerns the companies may have about contracts signed with previous Venezuelan governments can be handled by the courts, Chavez said, stressing that the country will prioritize making goods for itself rather than exporting raw materials, as in the past.
"Venezuela will never again be anyone's colony," said Chavez, a harsh critic of the U.S. government, which he says has exacerbated poverty through "imperialist" policies.
Chavez defended a move to increase taxes and royalties on foreign companies pumping oil in Venezuela, saying "we are defending our interests." It sounds very like "The period of one-sided decision-making is over" from yet another involuntary recipient of US foreign policy over the years. A sort of "don't call us, we'll call you" approach to laissez-faire sovereignty.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
spot wrote: I'm sure you'd have every justification in the world to choose Venezuela, given the size of their oil reserves, but would they go with you?
Wouldn't it be completely unnecessary for them to make a commitment either way? After all, Exxon's going to do business with them, regardless.
Wouldn't it be completely unnecessary for them to make a commitment either way? After all, Exxon's going to do business with them, regardless.
What if the US withdrew?
telaquapacky wrote: If we closed every military base we would leave some other countries undefended. Some of them count on us. We hate being seen as a world bully. Imagine how we'd feel being seen as a world coward. A balanced approach would be desirable.
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world...
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
But do those mudering militants deserve any better?
I think that the moment we pack up and leave Iraq, either the attempted moderate government we are trying to foster there will be overcome by terrorist militants, and the place will become one vast training camp for attacks against all points in the western world...
...or the government we are trying to foster will have to become even more repressive, torturing, executing, human-rights-violating monstrosity than Saddam's was, because in our absence, that is what it will take to control the militants.
But do those mudering militants deserve any better?
Cars 
What if the US withdrew?
Accountable wrote: Let's speculate. Call it a collaborate novel, if you must.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Speculating: If the US were to only concentrate on it's own needs and stop being involved in world affairs, it could then spend those "Hundreds of Billions" of dollars on the Iraq war & Afganistan, & elsewhere, on the needy & taking care of business here at home. People would just buy each others goods made in the US. Everybody would have a job, if they were all kept here & not shipped overseas. We could spend "Billions" on finding alternatives (promote aggressive fuel cell technology and hydrogen infrastructure) to Oil driven/dependent products. We would have to build weapons of such proportion that it would scare the bijeasus out of competing countries & or terrorsists. Where they would not even think of attacking the US, without complete eradication. (Causing more high demand jobs) Terrorists would be shot on the spot, not captured, they have "no US rights"!
The US would just focus on making itself impregnable, concentrating on operating in a self serving manner. As it no longer has to be big brother to the world!!!
(Remember, "Speculating")
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Speculating: If the US were to only concentrate on it's own needs and stop being involved in world affairs, it could then spend those "Hundreds of Billions" of dollars on the Iraq war & Afganistan, & elsewhere, on the needy & taking care of business here at home. People would just buy each others goods made in the US. Everybody would have a job, if they were all kept here & not shipped overseas. We could spend "Billions" on finding alternatives (promote aggressive fuel cell technology and hydrogen infrastructure) to Oil driven/dependent products. We would have to build weapons of such proportion that it would scare the bijeasus out of competing countries & or terrorsists. Where they would not even think of attacking the US, without complete eradication. (Causing more high demand jobs) Terrorists would be shot on the spot, not captured, they have "no US rights"!
The US would just focus on making itself impregnable, concentrating on operating in a self serving manner. As it no longer has to be big brother to the world!!!
(Remember, "Speculating")
Cars
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
:guitarist Dang, Festus! Dem dere Hatfields'd thank twiced 'fore dey'd come a'mopin' round here! Ah tell you whut!
:D
:D
What if the US withdrew?
Accountable wrote: Let's speculate. Call it a collaborate novel, if you must.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Just a few questions to clear up for me...
Is there a world leader? Do you mean Bush, or the US?
Are you saying (hypothetically) no treaties regarding trade as in no imported or exported goods at all? As in the nation becomes a 'closed shell'?
Just want to clarify so I can give my 'hypothetical' reply!
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Just a few questions to clear up for me...
Is there a world leader? Do you mean Bush, or the US?
Are you saying (hypothetically) no treaties regarding trade as in no imported or exported goods at all? As in the nation becomes a 'closed shell'?
Just want to clarify so I can give my 'hypothetical' reply!
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
turbonium wrote: Just a few questions to clear up for me...
Is there a world leader? Do you mean Bush, or the US?
Are you saying (hypothetically) no treaties regarding trade as in no imported or exported goods at all? As in the nation becomes a 'closed shell'?
Just want to clarify so I can give my 'hypothetical' reply!
I'm under the impression that the US is the world leader, at least in the context of this thread. Of course we could be legends in our own minds.
As for treaties, it strikes to the heart of my question. Are government treaties really necessary for international trade anymore? I would think the big international corporations, most of which are American, could continue making handsome profits without my tax dime.
Does that help clarify?
Is there a world leader? Do you mean Bush, or the US?
Are you saying (hypothetically) no treaties regarding trade as in no imported or exported goods at all? As in the nation becomes a 'closed shell'?
Just want to clarify so I can give my 'hypothetical' reply!
I'm under the impression that the US is the world leader, at least in the context of this thread. Of course we could be legends in our own minds.
As for treaties, it strikes to the heart of my question. Are government treaties really necessary for international trade anymore? I would think the big international corporations, most of which are American, could continue making handsome profits without my tax dime.
Does that help clarify?
What if the US withdrew?
If this happened it wouuld be a good day when a republic becomes an empire there are manny problems and this trasformation is inn progress now i hope that this never happens the us must continue to expand and exploit to bring about relizationn around the world:-5
What if the US withdrew?
Accountable wrote: Let's speculate. Call it a collaborate novel, if you must.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Well I looked up the number of military bases and there are over 730 bases in over 50 countries - so the economic savings would be huge - many billions per year I would think. International trade could still carry on without political red tape, I'm sure. I guess without tariffs and duties as a free market economy there are pros and cons to it. What would all those Gov't employees do??
I'm not sure about the defensive ramifications - Far says they'd be knocking at the borders without being able to defend properly. But I don't know - all those naval vessels scattered around the world would be concentrated around US shorelines for a stronger presence. And the other military forces would as well, like the Air Force for early response to outside OR inside threats. I'm sure there are negatives to it, though.
Of course, this is all theoretical, and I'm just speculating off-hand. I'm no expert in any of these fields so I'd have to delve deeper and see what the experts from all sides of opinion would say on it. It's hugely complicated and interwoven among different areas of the world's regionalities.
What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related.
Get the idea?
What would happen to the world? to the US? Would it be Utopia or Hell? Who would be the world leader if the world leader quit?
Well I looked up the number of military bases and there are over 730 bases in over 50 countries - so the economic savings would be huge - many billions per year I would think. International trade could still carry on without political red tape, I'm sure. I guess without tariffs and duties as a free market economy there are pros and cons to it. What would all those Gov't employees do??
I'm not sure about the defensive ramifications - Far says they'd be knocking at the borders without being able to defend properly. But I don't know - all those naval vessels scattered around the world would be concentrated around US shorelines for a stronger presence. And the other military forces would as well, like the Air Force for early response to outside OR inside threats. I'm sure there are negatives to it, though.
Of course, this is all theoretical, and I'm just speculating off-hand. I'm no expert in any of these fields so I'd have to delve deeper and see what the experts from all sides of opinion would say on it. It's hugely complicated and interwoven among different areas of the world's regionalities.
What if the US withdrew?
Quotes and bold fonts etc are not working so hope you can make sense of this
posted by accountable
"I'm not so sure there will be tremendous economic impact on the world. Most of the US corporations are really global now. I realize I may be in fantasyland here, but that's why I started the thread: to help crystalize an opinion."
Glad you were amused by the way-was after all the intention.
I rather assumed if you were going to pack up and go home you would cease trading with the rest of the world as well. It's trade that dictates foreign policy towards other countries, if you are not going to talk no one will trade with you.
"What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related."
"As for treaties, it strikes to the heart of my question. Are government treaties really necessary for international trade anymore? I would think the big international corporations, most of which are American, could continue making handsome profits without my tax dime"
What would you do about NAFTA, GATT and the current trade with South america, unless there is agreement on tariffs you won't be trading with anyone. No one will do business with a company based in a country that unilaterally ends trade agreements and refuses to make agreements.
These things affect you more than you realise.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005- ... 231994.htm
"BEIJING, July 18 -- Dealing with trade friction between China and the United States in a proper way is not only vital to both countries' economic interests but will also have an impact on globalization.
Washington's trade protectionism, which has been on the rise recently, is casting a long shadow over Sino-US trade relations.
From an economic perspective, China and the United States are naturally complementary trading partners. But economics is not always in harmony with political calculations.
Globalization should bring long-term benefits and universal well-being, but politicians are usually preoccupied with courting and winning over voters.
When the economy is in recession or hit by other hardships, politicians usually have the flair to find a scapegoat.
Although the economy is rebounding for the time being, the United States is still plagued by a host of problems such as grim unemployment and a huge account deficit.
The enormous current account deficit, which many in Washington blame on China's so-called currency manipulation, is in actuality caused by the United States' low household saving rate and huge budget deficit. However, finding a scapegoat to shoulder the blame may be more attractive than adjusting domestic policies. "
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=6019
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/fas/importer_assist.htm
It wouldn't just be your manufacturing that would suffer your agriculture would be decimated as well. The world would adapt very rapidly to an isolationist US that didn't want to trade.
Probably th biggest distortion to your economy is the amount you spend on your military, bringing it home might be good for you.
To quote one of your fornmer presidents.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist" (Public Papers of the Presidents: Eisenhower, 1960 - 61, pp. 1034 - 40, and New York Times, Jan. 18, 1961)."
posted by accountable
"I'm not so sure there will be tremendous economic impact on the world. Most of the US corporations are really global now. I realize I may be in fantasyland here, but that's why I started the thread: to help crystalize an opinion."
Glad you were amused by the way-was after all the intention.
I rather assumed if you were going to pack up and go home you would cease trading with the rest of the world as well. It's trade that dictates foreign policy towards other countries, if you are not going to talk no one will trade with you.
"What if the US suddenly picked up its marbles and went home? What if we unilaterally and unceremoneously closed every military base we have in foregn lands and called every troop home? Add to that the hypothetical resignation from the UN, telling those ambassadors to find another home. Finally, imagine the legislature cancelling/repealing any and all treaties, both political and trade-related."
"As for treaties, it strikes to the heart of my question. Are government treaties really necessary for international trade anymore? I would think the big international corporations, most of which are American, could continue making handsome profits without my tax dime"
What would you do about NAFTA, GATT and the current trade with South america, unless there is agreement on tariffs you won't be trading with anyone. No one will do business with a company based in a country that unilaterally ends trade agreements and refuses to make agreements.
These things affect you more than you realise.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005- ... 231994.htm
"BEIJING, July 18 -- Dealing with trade friction between China and the United States in a proper way is not only vital to both countries' economic interests but will also have an impact on globalization.
Washington's trade protectionism, which has been on the rise recently, is casting a long shadow over Sino-US trade relations.
From an economic perspective, China and the United States are naturally complementary trading partners. But economics is not always in harmony with political calculations.
Globalization should bring long-term benefits and universal well-being, but politicians are usually preoccupied with courting and winning over voters.
When the economy is in recession or hit by other hardships, politicians usually have the flair to find a scapegoat.
Although the economy is rebounding for the time being, the United States is still plagued by a host of problems such as grim unemployment and a huge account deficit.
The enormous current account deficit, which many in Washington blame on China's so-called currency manipulation, is in actuality caused by the United States' low household saving rate and huge budget deficit. However, finding a scapegoat to shoulder the blame may be more attractive than adjusting domestic policies. "
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content.asp?contentid=6019
http://www.usembassy.org.uk/fas/importer_assist.htm
It wouldn't just be your manufacturing that would suffer your agriculture would be decimated as well. The world would adapt very rapidly to an isolationist US that didn't want to trade.
Probably th biggest distortion to your economy is the amount you spend on your military, bringing it home might be good for you.
To quote one of your fornmer presidents.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist" (Public Papers of the Presidents: Eisenhower, 1960 - 61, pp. 1034 - 40, and New York Times, Jan. 18, 1961)."
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
gmc wrote: What would you do about NAFTA, GATT and the current trade with South america, unless there is agreement on tariffs you won't be trading with anyone. No one will do business with a company based in a country that unilaterally ends trade agreements and refuses to make agreements.
These things affect you more than you realise.[...]
It wouldn't just be your manufacturing that would suffer your agriculture would be decimated as well. The world would adapt very rapidly to an isolationist US that didn't want to trade.
Stipulating my ignorance. I can see how that distrust would damage trade initially. After all, our reputation for keeping our word has been tarnished over the past generation or so. Some kind of agreement would have to be struck with Customs & Immigration, either to allow goods to come in directly from foreign manufacturers or through an American agent of some type. But if the government remains consistent with this (It's my fantasy, after all) I believe it would work.
Probably th biggest distortion to your economy is the amount you spend on your military, bringing it home might be good for you.
To quote one of your fornmer presidents.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist" (Public Papers of the Presidents: Eisenhower, 1960 - 61, pp. 1034 - 40, and New York Times, Jan. 18, 1961)."
I see the resulting surplus as a mixed blessing. The gov't would have too much firepower (hard concept for Americans to grasp, but undeniable), and could sell the surplus ships, planes, etc. to the countries we've vacated. Add this windfall to the tax revenue that would be cut probably 25% of my ideal, and all the socialist programs celebrities have been screaming for are suddenly affordable. The citizens would take the fraction of their money the government returned to them and spend it (what, you thought we'd save? :yh_youkid ), thereby boosting the economy more quickly than experts predict.
Domestically, we'd be fine - maybe better.
Internationally, I'm still pondering.
These things affect you more than you realise.[...]
It wouldn't just be your manufacturing that would suffer your agriculture would be decimated as well. The world would adapt very rapidly to an isolationist US that didn't want to trade.
Stipulating my ignorance. I can see how that distrust would damage trade initially. After all, our reputation for keeping our word has been tarnished over the past generation or so. Some kind of agreement would have to be struck with Customs & Immigration, either to allow goods to come in directly from foreign manufacturers or through an American agent of some type. But if the government remains consistent with this (It's my fantasy, after all) I believe it would work.
Probably th biggest distortion to your economy is the amount you spend on your military, bringing it home might be good for you.
To quote one of your fornmer presidents.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist" (Public Papers of the Presidents: Eisenhower, 1960 - 61, pp. 1034 - 40, and New York Times, Jan. 18, 1961)."
I see the resulting surplus as a mixed blessing. The gov't would have too much firepower (hard concept for Americans to grasp, but undeniable), and could sell the surplus ships, planes, etc. to the countries we've vacated. Add this windfall to the tax revenue that would be cut probably 25% of my ideal, and all the socialist programs celebrities have been screaming for are suddenly affordable. The citizens would take the fraction of their money the government returned to them and spend it (what, you thought we'd save? :yh_youkid ), thereby boosting the economy more quickly than experts predict.
Domestically, we'd be fine - maybe better.
Internationally, I'm still pondering.
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
Far Rider wrote: accountable said.....and all the socialist programs celebrities have been screaming for are suddenly affordable....
OMG NO! Please no! Strike this from your fantasy!
:wah: It's a fantasy, but not Bros. Grimm.
OMG NO! Please no! Strike this from your fantasy!
:wah: It's a fantasy, but not Bros. Grimm.
-
LottomagicZ4941
- Posts: 752
- Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:00 pm
What if the US withdrew?
Initial thought "Wouldn't it be nice if we just withdrew." to the tune of a beach boy song.
I think we could win economically. However there are poorer counties where a good chunk of the youths go into the military. This would have unintended concequences.
Perhaps third world pockets of poverty in the USA.
Lotto
http://com4.runboard.com/blifetheuniver ... inchat.t40
Magicz4941A
I think we could win economically. However there are poorer counties where a good chunk of the youths go into the military. This would have unintended concequences.
Perhaps third world pockets of poverty in the USA.
Lotto
http://com4.runboard.com/blifetheuniver ... inchat.t40
Magicz4941A
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
What if the US withdrew?
LottomagicZ4941 wrote: Initial thought "Wouldn't it be nice if we just withdrew." to the tune of a beach boy song.
I think we could win economically. However there are poorer counties where a good chunk of the youths go into the military. This would have unintended concequences.
Perhaps third world pockets of poverty in the USA.
Lotto
http://com4.runboard.com/blifetheuniver ... inchat.t40
Magicz4941A
Unintended consequences, just what I'm digging for. thanks, Lotto. Can you expand on what you mean by the pockets of poverty comment?
I think we could win economically. However there are poorer counties where a good chunk of the youths go into the military. This would have unintended concequences.
Perhaps third world pockets of poverty in the USA.
Lotto
http://com4.runboard.com/blifetheuniver ... inchat.t40
Magicz4941A
Unintended consequences, just what I'm digging for. thanks, Lotto. Can you expand on what you mean by the pockets of poverty comment?