Is london under attack

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:00 pm

I have always enjoyed a bit of levity to lighten an otherwise tense conversation. (Did I spell all that right?) :yh_rotfl

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:11 pm

BabyRider wrote: I have always enjoyed a bit of levity to lighten an otherwise tense conversation. (Did I spell all that right?) :yh_rotfl

:yh_youkid

Y'done good, kid! :yh_peace

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:54 am

posted by abbey

How very sad i feel today reading these posts, i never for one minute thought i would see an American in support of terrorism.

SHAME ON YOU

You forget abbey london has suffered terrorist attacks before, every american who gave money to noraid was supporting terrorists even if they did kid themselves otherwise.

posted by scrat

They are not going to stop until they are shown the respect that they deserve, until the Muslim people are shown the respect that they deserve by the western powers..

Can't say I agree with you there, they are a bunch of fanatics that want a perverted religious regime they can lord it over. They don't even like their fellow moslems. What they want is hatred and religious tension throughout the world on which they can feed. If British moslems now find themselves being attacked and singled out that will suit their purposes very well as it will generate more followers as moderate people find themselves forced to take extreme positions to defend themselves.

We have opur home grown varietie. The BNP think this is wonderful now they have an excuse for their bigotry and will gain members from the more mindless of my countrymmen, especially in the inner cities. Every person that says we should kick out all moslems is doing what the terrorists want.

Must admit though I do think it's about time British Moslem groups were a bit more outspoken in condemning islamic extremists.

You won't defeat terrorists with conventional armies. I object to the war in Iraq because it had nothing to do with terrorism and is providing a fertile training ground for new recruits. That doesn't mean I support terrorists, I doubt very much anyone posting on this forum does. But this calls for the SAS not the tank corps. or if you can't get anything better US special forces will do.

But if you want to destroy a weed you don't spray down the whole garden, all that does is encorage more weeds to grow and kills all the flowers. you find out what it looks like, how it grows, starve it of light if you can and pull it out once you are sure you have got it. You need to do the same with terrorists.

You don't give in either. That is what you do if you change the way you live your life (O.K. be more vigilant) and allow the loss of freedom to the pretence that you need to defend a free society by becoming less free. That's what they want. TB can keep his plastic poll tax they will not stop this kind of attack.

You can just bet Al Queda are hoping the americans invade Iran, they want you to, they want an extreme irrational response leading to more violence. Doubt they will get it from the british. This time next week london will be running as normal, hysteria under attack is not a normal british response, nor is blind lashing out at the nearest available object.

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 1:10 am

Trains are running, roads are OK life is getting back to normal. I have read all these posts and there appears to be quite a spat, David/Micah has his views of which most of us are aware, I happen to think they are wrong but there you go, I would suggest that a closer more personal involvment with the effects of terrorism would change his mind.

We have had this before, London and other cities had the plenty of bombs during the IRA campaign and it won effect our day to day lives.

The only change to me will be that I will not be using the channel tunnel, last time I did security was non-exsistent and if something happens in the middle you are 10 miles from either end.

Word is that the bus bomber was a suicide effort so once they have picked up the bits they may well be able to DNA him.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 3:37 am

Wow. the things I have missed .. interesting thread.

First of all think of this.....

All of these terroist groups with all of their attacks on innocents just going about their own business haven't really accomplished anything except create enemies. (and please don't attempt to equate a terroist loaded with explosives to armed combat, that comparison is ridiculous) .. Ghandi, using passive resistance created a nation.. hmmmm.. think he may have been onto something.. naaaahhhh.. easier to strap explosives to your body and step onto a bus.

Secondly...

after reading all of this debate... the terrorists are winning folks.. they have successfully divided their enemy.. and now we are bickering amongst ourselves... instead allying ourselves and finding a way to prevent this from happening again.. that is just a basic tactic in any war.. divide your enemy and they will fall...

Lizzie Love · Post by **Lizzie Love** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:24 am

greydeadhead wrote: Wow. the things I have missed .. interesting thread.

First of all think of this.....

All of these terroist groups with all of their attacks on innocents just going about their own business haven't really accomplished anything except create enemies. (and please don't attempt to equate a terroist loaded with explosives to armed combat, that comparison is ridiculous) .. Ghandi, using passive resistance created a nation.. hmmmm.. think he may have been onto something.. naaaahhhh.. easier to strap explosives to your body and step onto a bus.

Secondly...

after reading all of this debate... the terrorists are winning folks.. they have successfully divided their enemy.. and now we are bickering amongst ourselves... instead allying ourselves and finding a way to prevent this from happening again.. that is just a basic tactic in any war.. divide your enemy and they will fall...
It is good to hear the voice of common sense and put in a way which will hopefully register with most. I spent most of the day yesterday on the phone as I am a brit living in the US. No they will not win and one thing is clear, after talking to God knows how many folk yesterday, acts such as these (as in the IRA bombings) unite us more strongly than ever.

With a few exceptions, politicians are politicians, it is the people who make a country great and in this case, Great Britain.

Namaste

Lizzie Love :-4

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:54 am

Hey LL

I didn't mean to infer that they were winning.. I am just saying that if we continue on the road that we are following.. the infighting between supposedly allied nations.. etc... then the terrorists have accomplished their objectives... divide and conquer.. hence they will win the battle.. hopefully saner minds shall prevail and see thru this tactic...

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:20 pm

I hope everyone is safe and sound their in England today. I am very sad that you have jioned us in country that have been attacked.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:25 pm

Perhaps its time that Britain pulled out of Iraq. After all its America's War.http://www.indymedia.ie

kmhowe72 · Post by **kmhowe72** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:32 pm

The only problem with that is. The teriost just made it your war. Don't be like spain. And runaway. Hay it's not even about the iraq war. The U.S. Should pull out. But now that you been attack it's not just our war anymore. It had nothing to do w/ the Iraq war. DAh

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 2:44 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: Perhaps its time that Britain pulled out of Iraq. After all its America's War.http://www.indymedia.ieWhat and bow down to these murderous B******* ?

NEVER!

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:54 pm

abbey, are the people you know all safe and sound? I'm so worried for all of you UK members!! :-1

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:00 pm

capt_buzzard wrote: Perhaps its time that Britain pulled out of Iraq. After all its America's War.http://www.indymedia.ie
Do you really think that would make you safe? I assume that is the spirit of your comment.

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 12:57 am

[/QUOTE]turbonium wrote: abbey, are the people you know all safe and sound? I'm so worried for all of you UK members!! :-1They're all as snug as bugs in rugs thanks Turbs, in light of the red alert in Birmingham yesterday Manchester is out of bounds to me & my immediate family.

We're not bowing down to the buggers, just plain common sense, as is my advise to everyone worldwide.

Take care in major cities and dont hesitate to report packages/bags left unattended.

Apparantly the devices in London were detonated by mobile phone signals, although i can't understand how they got a signal in the underground!

July 7th officially marked the end of World War Two, and britain is going to celebrate today, are we going to let these terrorists stop Britains veterans saluting their dead comerades?,

not a cat in hells chance!

turbonium · Post by **turbonium** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 1:22 am

thanks, abbey. It's good to know!!

Living in fear? No, we will never live in fear - that is all the murdering scum can hope to gain by these things, and they will never have it!!

All the best to you as always, abbey!!

Lizzie Love · Post by **Lizzie Love** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 3:38 pm

Hi to all here and thanks for the lovely thoughts for those of us brits with families etc in London. My cousin's son was missing (he was concussed and lost his cell phone) until lat friday night. She was DISTRAUGHT as she waited to hear whether he was alive or dead, he was working in the street where the bus bomb exploded. As soo as she heard his voice she burst into floods of tears with the relief. Terry is 26 and a smart young man and thankfully is OK. Much sadness for those who did not make it.

On a point made by Capt Buzzard, he does have a valid point and for what it is worth I also have a comment to make about the "war" in Iraq.

First of all it was meant to be in retaliation for the weapons of mass destruction and to get rid of Saddam. The second objective I am sure when completed must have been a huge releif to those who opposed his dictatorship. The weapons of MD however were not found. So the cry then was to allow these poor people of Iraq to have DEMOCRACY (how I love that word, redundant though it is).

Well I am not sure is democracy is ever acheived from without. I mean I do not feel that the imposition of a military force through conquest is the way in which "Democracy" (that word makes me smile so

will come about in Iraq. The seeds for democracy in Iraq must come from within and may have no bearing at all on western ideologies, culture and values. They do not want Mcdonalds and apple pie any more than they want fish and chips, and why should they. Why should we impose our cultural values upon them, unless they request it.

I lived in the middle east for 6 years and found the arabic islamic culture fascinating and at first totally alien (to my narrow little mind). I do not advocate fundamentalists of either islamic, christian or hebrew distinctions, perceiving all of them as dangerous and disturbed. I do not advocate terrorist activity of either Al Queada, IRA or Bader Meinhoff, again dangerous and disturbed although the IRA was much more disciplined than this lot presently. I do advocate freedom, but then I must ask myself freedom to do what? Freedom to own a gun and walk into a school killing 13 people and injuring over 50 ( bowling for Columbine). Freedom to practise a particular religious faith even if it means maiming young girls (female circumsion) or slandering and libelling the names of people who are homosexual and "outlawing" it . What freedom do we really want, for ourselves and others.

When my daughter was little (14 now) I read her 2 stories over and over and she loved them. One was about a mouse who did not like cheese, but was still a mouse, and another about a bird who married a worm (the bird did not know she was supposed to eat the worm). It is OK to be different isn't it? Apparently not, unless being different means basically the same (values norms etc).

As I said I DO NOT advocate the actions of those who attacked the innocent in London, Bali, Madrid, New York, Istanbul, Tienamen Square, Moscow the list is really endless. The children in the schools, people on buses, in pubs, cafes.

These cowards will feed on any backlash the BNP or any other "nutcase" bigotry groups hand out to the moslems in britain and no doubt many mosques will now be under threat. In bournemouth after 9/11 some moslem girls were physically attacked in the street, they were my students.

So what is it that we can do? I do not know and did not write this to give any answers I just wanted somewhere to get this off my chest. So thanks FG for the privelege. I am lucky that my cousins son is alive, many are not so fortunate today.

Carpe Diem..................good idea even though it may well sound fishy. :wah:

namaste

Lizzie Love :-4

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:21 pm

I thought this was a great article and wanted to share it with those who haven't read it. From Nick Cohen:

In these bleak days, it's worth remembering what was said after September 2001. A backward glance shows that before the war against the Taliban and long before the war against Saddam Hussein, there were many who had determined that 'we had it coming'. They had to convince themselves that Islamism was a Western creation: a comprehensible reaction to the International Monetary Fund or hanging chads in Florida or whatever else was agitating them, rather than an autonomous psychopathic force with reasons of its own. In the years since, this manic masochism has spread like bindweed and strangled leftish and much conservative thought.

All kinds of hypocrisy remained unchallenged. In my world of liberal London, social success at the dinner table belonged to the man who could simultaneously maintain that we've got it coming but that nothing was going to come; that indiscriminate murder would be Tony Blair's fault but there wouldn't be indiscriminate murder because 'the threat' was a phantom menace invented by Blair to scare the cowed electorate into supporting him.

On Thursday, before the police had made one arrest, before one terrorist group had claimed responsibility, before one body had been carried from the wreckage, let alone been identified and allowed to rest in peace, cocksure voices filled with righteousness were proclaiming that the real murderers weren't the real murderers but the Prime Minister. I'm not thinking of George Galloway and the other saluters of Saddam, but of upright men and women who sat down to write letters to respectable newspapers within minutes of hearing the news.

At no point did they grasp that Islamism was a reactionary movement as great as fascism, which had claimed millions of mainly Muslim lives in the Sudan, Iran, Algeria and Afghanistan and is claiming thousands in Iraq. As with fascism, it takes a resolute dunderheadedness to put all the responsibility on democratic governments for its existence.

I feel the appeal, believe me. You are exasperated with the manifold faults of Tony Blair and George W Bush. Fighting your government is what you know how to do and what you want to do, and when you are confronted with totalitarian forces which are far worse than your government, the easy solution is to blame your government for them.

Islamism stops being an ideology intent on building an empire from Andalusia to Indonesia, destroying democracy and subjugating women and becomes, by the magic of parochial reasoning, a protest movement on a par with Make Poverty History or the TUC.

Again, I understand the appeal. Whether you are brown or white, Muslim, Christian, Jew or atheist, it is uncomfortable to face the fact that there is a messianic cult of death which, like European fascism and communism before it, will send you to your grave whatever you do. But I'm afraid that's what the record shows.
Hear, Hear Mr. Cohen

Please take the time to read this article in full.

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Jul 11, 2005 7:01 pm

I was in Virginia all last week... watched this on the news.. I am so very very sorry and sad about this. Where will it end. I was worried about everyone.. didnt have acess to a computer. God Bless all of our dear friends in the United Kingdom.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 9:31 am

TW2005 wrote:

Here are example of the ways to use both spellings:

Buses: There are more Buses on the streets than usual today

Busses: The Busses headlight is not working properly.
:yh_youkid Oh dude! ........ put little smileys around stuff like this or people will think you're serious.