I know this might sound corny but where were all the ADD and ADHD kids when I was in school? I didn’t ask about “ODD†because I was the odd one. Why have things changed so much?
When I started school one teacher (no assistant) had the first and second grade in one room. Later, I was in a school where grades 1-8 were in two rooms. There were two teachers and one of them was the principal. How did they do it? These were schools in rural communities and money was real scarce.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years? Why have students changed so much in the past 30 years?
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
wow good Q.
Attitudes
Laws
Society
Technology
Attitudes of families, Oh just let the teachers Babysit our kids
Laws, NO DICIPLINE or very little
Society, ooo that child is horrible give them a suspension (Whoop Dee Doo to the kid that is a holiday hardly dicipline)
Technology, the ability to discover things like ADD/ADHD and diagnose it as well as abuse the diagnosis. Computers and other things making life slack and easier.
PLUS here they will not fail a child as they think it is worse for their precious self esteme than struggling for life with always trying to keep up good grades.
Attitudes
Laws
Society
Technology
Attitudes of families, Oh just let the teachers Babysit our kids
Laws, NO DICIPLINE or very little
Society, ooo that child is horrible give them a suspension (Whoop Dee Doo to the kid that is a holiday hardly dicipline)
Technology, the ability to discover things like ADD/ADHD and diagnose it as well as abuse the diagnosis. Computers and other things making life slack and easier.
PLUS here they will not fail a child as they think it is worse for their precious self esteme than struggling for life with always trying to keep up good grades.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
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Betty Boop
- Posts: 16983
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- Location: The end of the World
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Weren't the ADD and ADHD kids just the 'not very bright' ones back then, who were just left to get on with it? Is it not just that they didn't have a label back then.
At my primary school in the mid - late seventies we had a separate class for the 'not very bright', they were a mixture of mental or physical handicaps of varying degrees that were pretty much just left to get on with it.
I don't recall any child ever being excluded from primary school back then and I don't recall anyone behaving excessively agressively.
My son has 'dyspraxia' which also comes under the label of ADD (luckily for me he is not hyperactive) he attends a mainstream primary school with a support assistant for 15 hours/week. He needs to be continually kept on task and pushed to output work, he soaks up information but his co-ordination is poor and writing is very slow and laborious. The school he attends provided him with his own computer and he is now outputting stories full of imagination, something I thought he would never acheive. Back in the seventies he would have acheived nothing so that side of it is a brilliant improvement.
Behavioural problems are getting worse within schools, a boy from my sons class has been excluded recently, the sad thing is that he had more support than my son gets because of the nature of his problems, it seems that the bad behaviour attracts more help and money from the Education Authority than mental or physical disabilities.
I don't know why students have changed so much over the last 30 years, but there does seem to be a general lack of respect for others with so many people today which is very sad.
At my primary school in the mid - late seventies we had a separate class for the 'not very bright', they were a mixture of mental or physical handicaps of varying degrees that were pretty much just left to get on with it.
I don't recall any child ever being excluded from primary school back then and I don't recall anyone behaving excessively agressively.
My son has 'dyspraxia' which also comes under the label of ADD (luckily for me he is not hyperactive) he attends a mainstream primary school with a support assistant for 15 hours/week. He needs to be continually kept on task and pushed to output work, he soaks up information but his co-ordination is poor and writing is very slow and laborious. The school he attends provided him with his own computer and he is now outputting stories full of imagination, something I thought he would never acheive. Back in the seventies he would have acheived nothing so that side of it is a brilliant improvement.
Behavioural problems are getting worse within schools, a boy from my sons class has been excluded recently, the sad thing is that he had more support than my son gets because of the nature of his problems, it seems that the bad behaviour attracts more help and money from the Education Authority than mental or physical disabilities.
I don't know why students have changed so much over the last 30 years, but there does seem to be a general lack of respect for others with so many people today which is very sad.
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telaquapacky
- Posts: 754
- Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 3:00 pm
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
I asked a teacher once whether ADD and ADHD were for real and not just old fashioned "acting up." She told me there are physiological changes in the brains of those kids. She said it was due to the enviornment. Makes sense to me. We are exposed to far more poisons and awesome space rays than ever before.
Betty Boop wrote: I don't know why students have changed so much over the last 30 years, but there does seem to be a general lack of respect for others with so many people today which is very sad.I asked my Mom about that. She said American culture changed drastically after WW II. People got more cocky, disrespectful, more crude and vulgar. You have a point there, BB. And look at the TV shows people watch now compared to then. Big diff in attitude.
Betty Boop wrote: I don't know why students have changed so much over the last 30 years, but there does seem to be a general lack of respect for others with so many people today which is very sad.I asked my Mom about that. She said American culture changed drastically after WW II. People got more cocky, disrespectful, more crude and vulgar. You have a point there, BB. And look at the TV shows people watch now compared to then. Big diff in attitude.
Look what the cat dragged in.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Hmmm...since I'm a teacher and a principal, I guess I'd better weigh in on this subject. You've all pinpointed the causes of the change in children. Exposure to violence and poor family values. The disintegration of the marriage and the cost of living.
But let me put a little information out there about what I and my colleagues are doing about this:
Accountibility - When I went to school, there was always one kid on the playground that had a moustache and was six feet tall. We all knew that he had been held back, possibly more than once. You would do anything in those days except get an "F". You could get D- all day long, just don't fail because you'd get held back.
Well, the public and the psychologists got involved in education in the 70's. (And truthfully, that's just a bad idea. It's like letting the politicians run a war. The generals are the people trained to do that.
The 1970's, The "feel good" era. They said, "Don't flunk the kid, you'll damage his ego!" (But of course how much more damaging is it to drop out or to graduate and find that you don't have the skills to get a good job?) They changed everything. No more corporal punishment, no more "grades" no more competition in the classroom. Nothing that could hurt someone's feelings. And we all know the kind of ridiculousness that comes from trying to be politically correct in everything.
Enter me, 1994.
When I first entered this career filed, I was flabberghasted. Kids could flunk every class, and they would still be promoted! I had a huge problem with that, since, if they couldn't do the work at a 7th grade level, how cold they succeed at an 8th grade level?
Guess what? We sent them down the line to high school, knowing full well that they would flunk out there. By the hundreds. We flat out didn't care. Why should we? If you tried to challenge a kid or hold them to a level of quality, there was a good chance the parents of that kid would sue you. So, The internally self-motivated succeeded and the rest dropped out. But society had a problem with that too, now you are a person on the street without a high school education. You don't just vaporise after high school, you still need to eat and pay the rent. So what can you do?
Well, you can't get a job so you'll have to make your money in other ways: drugs, crime, and other illegal things. So the consequence of this policy was to fill up the prisons at an incredible rate.
Along came the "No Child Left Behind" law. It held teachers accountible. Now if you were not teaching to a certain level for all the kids in your class, everyone knew about it....and you could get fired. Not only that, but your school was also accountible not only for graduation rates, but for attendance. If kids didn't show up for school, (and by this time many parents no longer cared at all about their children's education and let them ditch almost constantly), you would also take the hit for that.
So to combat this trend, the school instituted standardized testing. Every kid would be tracked. Teachers checked their effectiveness by the data and adjusted their techniques accodingly. Attendance laws were passed to put parents of truant children in jail, because seriously, it is a form of child abuse isn't it?
School is seriously hard core now.
How does this pressure effect the kids and the teachers? The jry's still our on that one, but one things for sure, we won't be returning to the days of "pat them on the back and pass them" anytime soon.
But let me put a little information out there about what I and my colleagues are doing about this:
Accountibility - When I went to school, there was always one kid on the playground that had a moustache and was six feet tall. We all knew that he had been held back, possibly more than once. You would do anything in those days except get an "F". You could get D- all day long, just don't fail because you'd get held back.
Well, the public and the psychologists got involved in education in the 70's. (And truthfully, that's just a bad idea. It's like letting the politicians run a war. The generals are the people trained to do that.
The 1970's, The "feel good" era. They said, "Don't flunk the kid, you'll damage his ego!" (But of course how much more damaging is it to drop out or to graduate and find that you don't have the skills to get a good job?) They changed everything. No more corporal punishment, no more "grades" no more competition in the classroom. Nothing that could hurt someone's feelings. And we all know the kind of ridiculousness that comes from trying to be politically correct in everything.
Enter me, 1994.
When I first entered this career filed, I was flabberghasted. Kids could flunk every class, and they would still be promoted! I had a huge problem with that, since, if they couldn't do the work at a 7th grade level, how cold they succeed at an 8th grade level?
Guess what? We sent them down the line to high school, knowing full well that they would flunk out there. By the hundreds. We flat out didn't care. Why should we? If you tried to challenge a kid or hold them to a level of quality, there was a good chance the parents of that kid would sue you. So, The internally self-motivated succeeded and the rest dropped out. But society had a problem with that too, now you are a person on the street without a high school education. You don't just vaporise after high school, you still need to eat and pay the rent. So what can you do?
Well, you can't get a job so you'll have to make your money in other ways: drugs, crime, and other illegal things. So the consequence of this policy was to fill up the prisons at an incredible rate.
Along came the "No Child Left Behind" law. It held teachers accountible. Now if you were not teaching to a certain level for all the kids in your class, everyone knew about it....and you could get fired. Not only that, but your school was also accountible not only for graduation rates, but for attendance. If kids didn't show up for school, (and by this time many parents no longer cared at all about their children's education and let them ditch almost constantly), you would also take the hit for that.
So to combat this trend, the school instituted standardized testing. Every kid would be tracked. Teachers checked their effectiveness by the data and adjusted their techniques accodingly. Attendance laws were passed to put parents of truant children in jail, because seriously, it is a form of child abuse isn't it?
School is seriously hard core now.
How does this pressure effect the kids and the teachers? The jry's still our on that one, but one things for sure, we won't be returning to the days of "pat them on the back and pass them" anytime soon.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Bravo Jives... can you just jump over to the Carla H thread and throw that word in there
ACCOUNTABILITY
Brilliant. That sums things up nicely. I was rattling on about consequences but you hit the nail on the head.
And as for ADHD it is very real, and they still do not know what the cause is, but.... now have found it to be hereditary, and if a child has it, likely so does one of his or her parents, and possibly an uncle. My mother (ppor thing) raised one child with ADHD and one with ADD, and now has a grand daughter with ADHD. And yes Probable causes, injestion of preservatives, pestcides, herbicides, exposure to low levels of radiation ie power plants, power lines, computers and such. It is tested with a series of 200 plus questions pertaining to ones life history. A long process done by a pediatrician and behavioral specialist
ACCOUNTABILITY
Brilliant. That sums things up nicely. I was rattling on about consequences but you hit the nail on the head.
And as for ADHD it is very real, and they still do not know what the cause is, but.... now have found it to be hereditary, and if a child has it, likely so does one of his or her parents, and possibly an uncle. My mother (ppor thing) raised one child with ADHD and one with ADD, and now has a grand daughter with ADHD. And yes Probable causes, injestion of preservatives, pestcides, herbicides, exposure to low levels of radiation ie power plants, power lines, computers and such. It is tested with a series of 200 plus questions pertaining to ones life history. A long process done by a pediatrician and behavioral specialist
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
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Betty Boop
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- Location: The end of the World
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
I have always suspected my sons ADD was hereditary, now begins the long battle to stop him becoming the angry, frustrated, pig headed man who has been his role model for the last eight years. I admire your mum, I'm struggling with just the one and feeling annoyed with myself that I'm having to ask for outside help to cope with my sons behaviour.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Betty Boop wrote: I have always suspected my sons ADD was hereditary, now begins the long battle to stop him becoming the angry, frustrated, pig headed man who has been his role model for the last eight years. I admire your mum, I'm struggling with just the one and feeling annoyed with myself that I'm having to ask for outside help to cope with my sons behaviour.
Betty if I learned just one thing in the last 2 years it is..."don't be afraid to ask for help"
Just ask away. Help is out there for the taking. I will gladly share trade secrets with you regarding ADHD lord knows I tried it all.
And your son is still young 8 years can be smoothed out and he can improve in time.
My mom was a miracle. Amazing she didn't end up in an asylm mind you ahahaha she raised a border line criminal and a chronic liar to become well rounded successful individuals. She had the insight to know that her methods would impact us most in our adulthood and allowed us kids to be kids without prejudice.
Betty if I learned just one thing in the last 2 years it is..."don't be afraid to ask for help"
Just ask away. Help is out there for the taking. I will gladly share trade secrets with you regarding ADHD lord knows I tried it all.
And your son is still young 8 years can be smoothed out and he can improve in time.
My mom was a miracle. Amazing she didn't end up in an asylm mind you ahahaha she raised a border line criminal and a chronic liar to become well rounded successful individuals. She had the insight to know that her methods would impact us most in our adulthood and allowed us kids to be kids without prejudice.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
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MicahLorain
- Posts: 171
- Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 12:00 pm
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Clint wrote: I know this might sound corny but where were all the ADD and ADHD kids when I was in school? I didn’t ask about “ODD†because I was the odd one. Why have things changed so much?
When I started school one teacher (no assistant) had the first and second grade in one room. Later, I was in a school where grades 1-8 were in two rooms. There were two teachers and one of them was the principal. How did they do it? These were schools in rural communities and money was real scarce.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years? Why have students changed so much in the past 30 years?
Duhhhh because the World has changed?? It isn't 30 years ago and the world is an entirely new place. If you dislike our schools and culture so much maybe you should leave? Justa suggestion!
When I started school one teacher (no assistant) had the first and second grade in one room. Later, I was in a school where grades 1-8 were in two rooms. There were two teachers and one of them was the principal. How did they do it? These were schools in rural communities and money was real scarce.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years? Why have students changed so much in the past 30 years?
Duhhhh because the World has changed?? It isn't 30 years ago and the world is an entirely new place. If you dislike our schools and culture so much maybe you should leave? Justa suggestion!
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Betty Boop
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Attitude like that has changed our world, why so aggresive towards Clint for asking a perfectly reasonable question?
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MicahLorain
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Betty Boop wrote: Attitude like that has changed our world, why so aggresive towards Clint for asking a perfectly reasonable question?
Bashing America's schools is a past time for alot of folks. It is tiring and done so much it really DOES hurt our society. Got nuthin nice to say about our great land then shut the hell up is my view.
Bashing America's schools is a past time for alot of folks. It is tiring and done so much it really DOES hurt our society. Got nuthin nice to say about our great land then shut the hell up is my view.
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Betty Boop
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Didn't see any 'bashing' coming from Clint????
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MicahLorain
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Betty Boop wrote: Didn't see any 'bashing' coming from Clint????
I did. Matter of opinion I suppose.
I did. Matter of opinion I suppose.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
MicahLorain wrote: Duhhhh because the World has changed?? It isn't 30 years ago and the world is an entirely new place. If you dislike our schools and culture so much maybe you should leave? Justa suggestion!
The world has changed. We have kids who have serious learning problems, sex predators, methamphetamines and a host of other things in this “new worldâ€. Following you logic, since they are "new world" issues we should just accept them. Sorry, I don’t accept problems just because they are part of the “whole new worldâ€.
I don’t plan to leave either.
The world has changed. We have kids who have serious learning problems, sex predators, methamphetamines and a host of other things in this “new worldâ€. Following you logic, since they are "new world" issues we should just accept them. Sorry, I don’t accept problems just because they are part of the “whole new worldâ€.
I don’t plan to leave either.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Betty Boop wrote: Didn't see any 'bashing' coming from Clint????
Thank you. Your are right. There wasn't any "bashing" intended.
Thank you. Your are right. There wasn't any "bashing" intended.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
30 years ago kids were just more disciplined, there was less entertainment and priorities were alot different (for kids and parents). I dont think the school systems have failed at all. I think some parents are partly responsible. It's alot more difficult raising children now. There are more double income families and divorces and seperations which means less attention goes to the children. People take the easy way out now. Theres always a quick fix to a problem. My younger cousin was on ritalin (for ADHD) because he was bad...spoiled rotton. (And I'm not pulling a Tom Cruise/Brook Sheilds-theres no such thing as a chemical imbalance). His mother didn't get off her ass to to discipline him and used the TV as a babysitter. When he'd get grounded I wished I was him, being sent to a room with everything electronic seen on TV. What punishment! I would try to get expelled. Imagine teaching a class full of this type. Anyway, sorry for going off like that...
Tan
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telaquapacky
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Jives, thank you for the encouraging news. I believe that if you expect more from your students they will rise to the occasion. Though my politics are a little left on the spectrum, one of the things I always despised about liberalism was the panty-waist attitude toward education, against corporal punishment, against... excellence. The kids are our future. I'm glad you're there doing what you're doing, and glad that the powers that be are finally behind you!
Look what the cat dragged in.
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nvalleyvee
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What has changed schools so much in the past 30 years?
Thanks Jives. I am going back to teaching this fall as a substitute. I was told not to go the high school. I love science and teaching it so I think I will put in for the HS too. There are good teachers and those that are burnt out. There are good homelives for the students and bad. Teaching is something a person feels when they enter a classroom. Some of the kids get it and some don't want to learn. I have taught before and absolutely loved doing my job. The joy I get from the kids who are interested far outweighs the crap from the slackers.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper