This stuff just gets crazier.....
Teacher 'petrified' after attack by student Baltimore educator says she cannot bring herself to return to work now
By Mike Celizic
TODAYShow.com contributor
Six days after she was sucker punched and beaten in her own Baltimore classroom, high school art teacher Jolita Berry still finds it almost impossible to watch the MySpace video of the attack. And she can’t make herself go back to work.
“I am petrified to go back to that particular building,” Berry told TODAY’s Matt Lauer on Thursday in New York. “I miss the good students that I have. I love them dearly, but I can’t do it.”
The attack happened last Friday morning in Berry’s classroom in Reginald F. Lewis High School in Baltimore. One of the girls in the class approached the 30-year-old teacher and got nose-to-nose with her and threatened her.
“I told her, ‘You’re in my personal space, back up. If you hit me, I will defend myself,’ ” Berry said. “Before I knew it, she hit me in the face.”
Berry characterized the girl as one who is easily influenced by peer pressure. “If they’re doing something crazy, she wants to go along,” Berry said, adding that other students in the class urged the girl to attack her.
The video, recorded on a cell phone by another student, picks up with Berry on the floor trying to defend herself while the girl straddles her, throwing punches at Berry’s head. The teacher said some of the other students cheered on the attacker.
The video shows students standing around the attack, watching and making no move to intervene.
One student did call for help. After the attack, Berry said the school principal, Jean Ragin, suggested that she provoked the attack.
“On one hand, she told me she is sorry this happened to me,” Berry said in a taped report filed by NBC’s Savannah Guthrie. “She told me telling the student that I would defend myself was a ‘trigger word.’ ”
“I’m still trying to wrap my mind around it,” she told Lauer. “It doesn’t make sense. She said I should have gone for an administrator quickly.” But, she added, with the girl in her face, it wasn’t possible to say, “Hold on, I’m going to get an administrator. It happened so fast.”
The Baltimore Sun newspaper has reported that the student has since been suspended. But Berry said that nothing was done to the girl immediately after the attack.
“A lot of times when this happens, you see the student the next day. I hear that she was back on Monday, but I haven’t been back. I don’t know,” Berry told Lauer. “The thing that gets me, is that after the attack, they sent me to the clinic and on my way out of the door she was right there in the doorway. I should not have had to see her.”
Violent school?
Lewis High was put on probation by Maryland school authorities last year for the high number of violent incidents reported there. Marietta English, the president of the Baltimore teachers’ union, said that the school has taken to not reporting incidents and not disciplining students for fear of being labeled “persistently dangerous,” a designation that would allow students to choose to go to other schools in the city.
The school is one of several schools created in 2002 when the city broke up Northern High School, a large institution beset by violence and problems. W.E.B. DuBois High School, which was created at the same time as Lewis High, is already labeled persistently dangerous.
“They know that there are no consequences for their behavior, so they are pretty much running the school,” English told NBC News.
Berry agreed with English. “There are no consequences,” she said. “The students do whatever they want because they know nothing’s going to happen to them.”
The teacher said she initially kept silent about the attack, but when the video went up on MySpace, a friend saw it and told her she had to make the public aware of the situation in the school.
“Even though this is hard and I have to keep reliving it, I want to make a change,” she said. “I want to make it safe for teachers. The students who come to learn shouldn’t be made to suffer.”
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
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RedGlitter
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Clodhopper
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
It amazes me that there are teachers prepared to work in that environment. I applaud their courage and professionalism.
There must be boundaries. There must be lines the kids know they cannot cross without serious consequences. It won't work in all cases, but it will work for most, and if the worst troublemakers are weeded out the school will improve (though not with the current Head, I suspect).
Doesn't solve the problem of what to do with the excluded children, but it does give the rest some hope of an education, and the teachers some chance of educating.
There must be boundaries. There must be lines the kids know they cannot cross without serious consequences. It won't work in all cases, but it will work for most, and if the worst troublemakers are weeded out the school will improve (though not with the current Head, I suspect).
Doesn't solve the problem of what to do with the excluded children, but it does give the rest some hope of an education, and the teachers some chance of educating.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
What they need is... A Nice White Lady
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Again, I question why kids are being forced to create "art" if they don't want to make art. Like most subjects of any value, it can be learned but not taught. Of all things, it certainly can't be force fed.
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Clodhopper
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
yaaarrrgg;836726 wrote: Again, I question why kids are being forced to create "art" if they don't want to make art. Like most subjects of any value, it can be learned but not taught. Of all things, it certainly can't be force fed.
Care to apply that argument to Maths? Or English?
You are right in one important sense, though: You cannot "force feed" any child, in educational terms. What teaching is, is creating an environment where children learn, providing the information for them to do so and helping them use that information.
Care to apply that argument to Maths? Or English?
You are right in one important sense, though: You cannot "force feed" any child, in educational terms. What teaching is, is creating an environment where children learn, providing the information for them to do so and helping them use that information.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Clodhopper;836731 wrote: Care to apply that argument to Maths? Or English?
You are right in one important sense, though: You cannot "force feed" any child, in educational terms. What teaching is, is creating an environment where children learn, providing the information for them to do so and helping them use that information.
I'd agree ... I think the educator's job is just to provide the resources, some options and gentle guidance ... the child will learn if he's interested, or think about other things that are more interesting.
With respect to math, it's one of the worst taught subjects in public school IMO. One can teach procedure and algorithm, much the same way a person teaches an animal to perform silly tricks. But there's not necessarily any understanding beyond a consistent reaction to the stimulus.
I'm more of a self-learner. In high school, I took a lot of study halls, and taught myself trigonometry and calculus ... purely out of self-interest. I was interested in building musical instruments and needed it to calculate fret position, angles, etc. I think if a person *can't* teach themselves a subject, they won't remember it anyway once the class lets out. There will be little or no long term comprehension.
IMO the primary thing that (most) schools really screw up is in encouraging self-learning. But perhaps that is partly because of the business model. If you teach people that they can learn themselves, and don't need a teacher, the school is put out of business.
I get the feeling that by the time most kids get out of school, they hate learning and would never pick up a math book without having a gun to their head. IMO the current methods just makes people hate the subject ... and most of these kids will never even have a need for it anyway. The only lasting thing that's taught is disdain for the subject matter.
You are right in one important sense, though: You cannot "force feed" any child, in educational terms. What teaching is, is creating an environment where children learn, providing the information for them to do so and helping them use that information.
I'd agree ... I think the educator's job is just to provide the resources, some options and gentle guidance ... the child will learn if he's interested, or think about other things that are more interesting.
With respect to math, it's one of the worst taught subjects in public school IMO. One can teach procedure and algorithm, much the same way a person teaches an animal to perform silly tricks. But there's not necessarily any understanding beyond a consistent reaction to the stimulus.
I'm more of a self-learner. In high school, I took a lot of study halls, and taught myself trigonometry and calculus ... purely out of self-interest. I was interested in building musical instruments and needed it to calculate fret position, angles, etc. I think if a person *can't* teach themselves a subject, they won't remember it anyway once the class lets out. There will be little or no long term comprehension.
IMO the primary thing that (most) schools really screw up is in encouraging self-learning. But perhaps that is partly because of the business model. If you teach people that they can learn themselves, and don't need a teacher, the school is put out of business.
I get the feeling that by the time most kids get out of school, they hate learning and would never pick up a math book without having a gun to their head. IMO the current methods just makes people hate the subject ... and most of these kids will never even have a need for it anyway. The only lasting thing that's taught is disdain for the subject matter.
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suzy_creamcheese
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
how horrific especially that the teacher got absolutely no support whilst the attacker was allowed back?
Do they not value teachers at all?
Do they not value teachers at all?
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chrisb84uk
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
What a horrible story. It's so sad how the rest of the kids are either happy to just sit back and watch, or are so worried about a backlash from fellow pupils that this assault was able to continue, or infact really even get going for that matter. 
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Clodhopper
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
yaaaaarg (btw, did you know you were an obscure Cornish cheese made from sheeps' milk?;)): I think with the internet self schooling at home is a more viable option than it used to be. Still takes a lot of time from adults though. Few parents have the resources in time, let alone anything else. Few kids have the self-discipline - I doubt I would have, in something like Maths (eep!) to work at it entirely on their own. Let alone that a good class can be FUN!
What is your alternative to the School system, what would the consequences be for society as a whole, and how much would it cost?
What is your alternative to the School system, what would the consequences be for society as a whole, and how much would it cost?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
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chrisb84uk
- Posts: 11634
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:29 am
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Before Sunset;836817 wrote: That's a good point. If the teacher gets beat up with no help in sight what chance would a student have? Nobody would help you. Schools like this, where the kids are in charge and violent, are a complete waste of everyone's time.
Exactly, one of the key roles of the teacher and as an adult to the kids, is to try and maintain a sense of order and disipline in class, and hopefully something that they will keep with them and grow on throughout life, but if the students (even the odd one,) start taking control of lessons, and do as they please, then it not only becomes potentially very dangerous for everyone, but as you say makes a complete waste of time even being there.
I feel sorry for the good students that just want to learn, but end up being outvoiced by the louder class bullies.
Exactly, one of the key roles of the teacher and as an adult to the kids, is to try and maintain a sense of order and disipline in class, and hopefully something that they will keep with them and grow on throughout life, but if the students (even the odd one,) start taking control of lessons, and do as they please, then it not only becomes potentially very dangerous for everyone, but as you say makes a complete waste of time even being there.
I feel sorry for the good students that just want to learn, but end up being outvoiced by the louder class bullies.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
I think kids are the messengers.
They are shouting at us that society has failed and we end up trying to shoot the messenger. Maybe we need to stop trying to "fix" them and actually listen.
They are shouting at us that society has failed and we end up trying to shoot the messenger. Maybe we need to stop trying to "fix" them and actually listen.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Clodhopper;836813 wrote: yaaaaarg (btw, did you know you were an obscure Cornish cheese made from sheeps' milk?;)): I think with the internet self schooling at home is a more viable option than it used to be. Still takes a lot of time from adults though. Few parents have the resources in time, let alone anything else. Few kids have the self-discipline - I doubt I would have, in something like Maths (eep!) to work at it entirely on their own. Let alone that a good class can be FUN!
What is your alternative to the School system, what would the consequences be for society as a whole, and how much would it cost?
I see the financial costs about the same... but I admit I can't predict that with certainty.
IMO home schooling parents should get the same tax revenue that a public school would, for every child home schooled. I suppose like a voucher system. That way more parents would be encouraged to stay home to teach, rather than both working and viewing the school system as a free daycare and surrogate parent.
The current system is more unfair to the teachers and kids that want to be in a class ... as it's adjusted to the one or two people that resent being trapped there.
A "free" class should be like a library ... something that a person (anyone of any age) is free to use and benefit from. If we forced adults to attend the library every single day, we'd see the same kind of hostility, disruption, and damage to books.
What is your alternative to the School system, what would the consequences be for society as a whole, and how much would it cost?
I see the financial costs about the same... but I admit I can't predict that with certainty.
IMO home schooling parents should get the same tax revenue that a public school would, for every child home schooled. I suppose like a voucher system. That way more parents would be encouraged to stay home to teach, rather than both working and viewing the school system as a free daycare and surrogate parent.
The current system is more unfair to the teachers and kids that want to be in a class ... as it's adjusted to the one or two people that resent being trapped there.
A "free" class should be like a library ... something that a person (anyone of any age) is free to use and benefit from. If we forced adults to attend the library every single day, we'd see the same kind of hostility, disruption, and damage to books.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Wonderful story, obviously its the teachers fault, the poor traumatized children should be given some sweets and presents so they don't have to suffer the terrible repercusions of having to feel guilty for laughing and filming while their teacher was getting the crap kicked out of her for daring to try to mildly stand up for herself, maybe if the children were allowed to have sex with each other and do drugs without adults being boring and getting in the way in class that would improve discipline. Also, perhaps some extra physchoanalyists, a few articles on how hard it is for kids having to live in a society where they can pretty much do whatever they want, and several trips to disneyland will help these children understand how important it is to be always be yourself and do whatever you want to do as long, as you feel good about yourself.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Galbally;836927 wrote: Wonderful story, obviously its the teachers fault, the poor traumatized children should be given some sweets and presents so they don't have to suffer the terrible repercusions of having to feel guilty for laughing and filming while their teacher was getting the crap kicked out of her for daring to try to mildly stand up for herself, maybe if the children were allowed to have sex with each other and do drugs without adults being boring and getting in the way in class that would improve discipline. Also, perhaps some extra physchoanalyists, a few articles on how hard it is for kids having to live in a society where they can pretty much do whatever they want, and several trips to disneyland will help these children understand how important it is to be always be yourself and do whatever you want to do as long, as you feel good about yourself.
Note ... I'm not blaming the teacher ... I'm blaming the school "system." The teachers are being put in a bad (and potentially dangerous) situation. Don't think that by not critiquing the system, you are doing the teachers any favors.
Also the students are there to learn, not jump in the middle of a fight. If you want them to act the role of deputy sheriff, they need a gun and some training.
It's interesting ... kids get beaten up all the time in school ... it doesn't make news because they are viewed as non-persons.
Note ... I'm not blaming the teacher ... I'm blaming the school "system." The teachers are being put in a bad (and potentially dangerous) situation. Don't think that by not critiquing the system, you are doing the teachers any favors.
Also the students are there to learn, not jump in the middle of a fight. If you want them to act the role of deputy sheriff, they need a gun and some training.
It's interesting ... kids get beaten up all the time in school ... it doesn't make news because they are viewed as non-persons.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;836932 wrote: Who are you and why are you using Galbally's account?
I'm evil galbally, heheheheheheheh :wah:
I'm evil galbally, heheheheheheheh :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Jester;837203 wrote: If a law was past from stupid posting would you follow it RJ?
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Now that right there is funny, I don't care who's side your on..:wah:
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl Now that right there is funny, I don't care who's side your on..:wah:
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Jester;837119 wrote: The student should have been arrested on the spot and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The teacher should file a lawsuit for failure of the school system to protect her on the job.
The students who do this should be locked up in prison for all of their highschool years, removing them from the students who will comply, a generation (the cirminal element of it anyway) is lost folks, stop trying to make friends and lead students the proper way.
And Ya'll better wake up, theres much more of this coming because a lot of folks do not correct their kids or make them complay with authority, we live amongst three generations now of folks questioning various levels of authority.
AMEN!!
The problem is that we are so busy "gently guiding them" , making them feel priviledged, and making damn sure that they know that if an adult lays a hand on them for any reason the adult will go to jail - that we have lost control of these kids.
rjwould said on page two -" Another thing we can do is examine ourselves and our past, we are yesterdays students."
You are right - we are or were yesterdays students. Twenty plus years ago when I graduated, there was not a single person in my graduating class of a couple of hundred who would have thought of mouthing off to a teacher - let alone beating them!! Students weren't shooting each other in the cafeteria and even kids who weren't crazy about all of their subjects did their homework.
rjwould;837122 wrote: If a law was passed that outlawed any and all christian activities including reading the christian bible and teaching your own children about chriatianity, would you obey that law, jester?
What do you mean if? Don't you mean when? In the last 10 years or so - "IN GOD WE TRUST" has become almost as criminal to utter as the N word! Not only are our children not allowed to pray in school (privately) they can't say the Pledge of Alliagence because God is mentioned.
I am not a raving Christian. Haven't set foot in a church for years - but it sure seems to me that the problems in our schools started about the same time that it became a crime to do anything even remotely related to religion in schools.
Are kids more violent nowdays? You bet! They are shown their whole lives that there are absolutely no real reprecussions to their bad behaviour. Want to mouth off to Mom or Dad? Go ahead! The worst they can do is send you to your room. Big deal.
Want to beat up your teacher? Go ahead! The worst they can do is tell you not to come to school. Heck - you didn't want to be there anyway!!
The teacher should file a lawsuit for failure of the school system to protect her on the job.
The students who do this should be locked up in prison for all of their highschool years, removing them from the students who will comply, a generation (the cirminal element of it anyway) is lost folks, stop trying to make friends and lead students the proper way.
And Ya'll better wake up, theres much more of this coming because a lot of folks do not correct their kids or make them complay with authority, we live amongst three generations now of folks questioning various levels of authority.
AMEN!!
The problem is that we are so busy "gently guiding them" , making them feel priviledged, and making damn sure that they know that if an adult lays a hand on them for any reason the adult will go to jail - that we have lost control of these kids.
rjwould said on page two -" Another thing we can do is examine ourselves and our past, we are yesterdays students."
You are right - we are or were yesterdays students. Twenty plus years ago when I graduated, there was not a single person in my graduating class of a couple of hundred who would have thought of mouthing off to a teacher - let alone beating them!! Students weren't shooting each other in the cafeteria and even kids who weren't crazy about all of their subjects did their homework.
rjwould;837122 wrote: If a law was passed that outlawed any and all christian activities including reading the christian bible and teaching your own children about chriatianity, would you obey that law, jester?
What do you mean if? Don't you mean when? In the last 10 years or so - "IN GOD WE TRUST" has become almost as criminal to utter as the N word! Not only are our children not allowed to pray in school (privately) they can't say the Pledge of Alliagence because God is mentioned.
I am not a raving Christian. Haven't set foot in a church for years - but it sure seems to me that the problems in our schools started about the same time that it became a crime to do anything even remotely related to religion in schools.
Are kids more violent nowdays? You bet! They are shown their whole lives that there are absolutely no real reprecussions to their bad behaviour. Want to mouth off to Mom or Dad? Go ahead! The worst they can do is send you to your room. Big deal.
Want to beat up your teacher? Go ahead! The worst they can do is tell you not to come to school. Heck - you didn't want to be there anyway!!
Sandi
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
After those kids spend a couple years in the slammer, I bet they'll change their mind about making art. They'll make art alright -- real good art -- when they are commanded to make art (provided the theme is acceptable). Just like they do it in North Korea. 
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chonsigirl
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Since I am living in Baltimore, and am a teacher for a neighboring system, I will leave my comments on this report. I don't intend to debate them, since I live them daily.
The facts as I know them:
1. Two teachers beat up by students last week in Baltimore City, one male, one female. RG's OP concerns the female victim.
2. Unreported incidents: (but known by employees) One assistant principal beat up at a school in my district last week. Kept out of the news too.
3. Usual consequences for any fight when an adult employee is attacked or physically injured is expulsion.
4. To stop a fight, a teacher must obtain specific training to interevene physically. Otherwise, the adult is at risk of repurcussion, legally or otherwise. But, you must also not just stand there and watch it, but do something until proper help arrives.
Now, I usually never report incidents that occur at my school-hey, it is rough out there for children and adults alike. Last week a large fight broke out in the hallway during break. During the attempt to halt it, I got quite a few licks while holding on until help came. (yup, just little old me there for about 45-60 seconds) Frankly, I will not go into any more details than that, since I think my position would be at stake. Others interevened to halt the incident, having the appropriate training to do more than I could. They got it worse then me.
Honest old soul that I am, I did tell my children, who at their age were alarmed and pleaded for me to go up to college to teach, even if it meant moving again. I enrolled in a martial arts class instead, to feel secure just to be in the hallway again. That pacified them somewhat-but my mother calls daily very upset.
Why is there such violence? Multiple reasons: there is an inherent problem within the system, the surrounding neighborhood brings the violence into the school, educators are not properly instructed how to disarm these problems as they arise, lack of parental involvement, etc. Everyone on this thread has made valid points-but the solution is yet to be reached. It will take all parties concerned to be active in the school life of their students, to halt such things from happening again.
My personal comments: I never saw such anger in a child-and a 12 year old is a child. More than just the school environment was involved, and needs to be examined and dealt with. A brillant student too, one of the smartest in the class. Even quite sore after the ordeal, I sighed for them and the loss of education that would occur while waiting for a decision.
I am quite sorry to wake up in the morning and tote out to work this year. Not like looking forward to a happy lesson plan, a cool experiment, but looking over your shoulder at every minute for the next event. I do not know how you would think, but put yourself in my position, which you all know. I have an invalid to care for, if something happened to me, it is devastating for him. That is how the attacked teacher must feel, not wanting to return to work. You can not fear the ones in their desks before you, but feel like a teacher and carry on.
I ranted long enough. I suggest productive solutions to this problems, all have examined and discussed them. How can we as adults help out this situation, whether it is our child in the school system or not?
The facts as I know them:
1. Two teachers beat up by students last week in Baltimore City, one male, one female. RG's OP concerns the female victim.
2. Unreported incidents: (but known by employees) One assistant principal beat up at a school in my district last week. Kept out of the news too.
3. Usual consequences for any fight when an adult employee is attacked or physically injured is expulsion.
4. To stop a fight, a teacher must obtain specific training to interevene physically. Otherwise, the adult is at risk of repurcussion, legally or otherwise. But, you must also not just stand there and watch it, but do something until proper help arrives.
Now, I usually never report incidents that occur at my school-hey, it is rough out there for children and adults alike. Last week a large fight broke out in the hallway during break. During the attempt to halt it, I got quite a few licks while holding on until help came. (yup, just little old me there for about 45-60 seconds) Frankly, I will not go into any more details than that, since I think my position would be at stake. Others interevened to halt the incident, having the appropriate training to do more than I could. They got it worse then me.
Honest old soul that I am, I did tell my children, who at their age were alarmed and pleaded for me to go up to college to teach, even if it meant moving again. I enrolled in a martial arts class instead, to feel secure just to be in the hallway again. That pacified them somewhat-but my mother calls daily very upset.
Why is there such violence? Multiple reasons: there is an inherent problem within the system, the surrounding neighborhood brings the violence into the school, educators are not properly instructed how to disarm these problems as they arise, lack of parental involvement, etc. Everyone on this thread has made valid points-but the solution is yet to be reached. It will take all parties concerned to be active in the school life of their students, to halt such things from happening again.
My personal comments: I never saw such anger in a child-and a 12 year old is a child. More than just the school environment was involved, and needs to be examined and dealt with. A brillant student too, one of the smartest in the class. Even quite sore after the ordeal, I sighed for them and the loss of education that would occur while waiting for a decision.
I am quite sorry to wake up in the morning and tote out to work this year. Not like looking forward to a happy lesson plan, a cool experiment, but looking over your shoulder at every minute for the next event. I do not know how you would think, but put yourself in my position, which you all know. I have an invalid to care for, if something happened to me, it is devastating for him. That is how the attacked teacher must feel, not wanting to return to work. You can not fear the ones in their desks before you, but feel like a teacher and carry on.
I ranted long enough. I suggest productive solutions to this problems, all have examined and discussed them. How can we as adults help out this situation, whether it is our child in the school system or not?
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chonsigirl
- Posts: 33633
- Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:28 am
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Yes, we have a similar program here. It is not mandatory yet, but should be.
There actually was a period of control in the classroom, with several solutions offered to descalate the incident. All was forgotten one minute down the hallway-it needed some form of intervention way before that specific time period, or day.
(but I am sure I will take the class during the summer, it would be helpful for many incidents)
There actually was a period of control in the classroom, with several solutions offered to descalate the incident. All was forgotten one minute down the hallway-it needed some form of intervention way before that specific time period, or day.
(but I am sure I will take the class during the summer, it would be helpful for many incidents)
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837306 wrote: 99.9% of these incidents would not even be occurring if we didn't force children into the school system. The kids that want to be there, fine, but when a person is forced to be someplace or do something, they protest in what ever manner they believe they will be heard. This is one of the causes by which kids overstep bounds. If they were being listened to and taken seriously, much of this would not happen..
I've seen you write this before, RJ, yet I've not heard what you intend to do with those kids who don't want to be there. Do we just let them be illiterate and ignorant until they're ready to learn something? What exactly do you propose so that we don't have a wad of uneducated people due to their lack of desire to "be there?" How are they supposed to learn so they can get a job and be productive members of society?
I've seen you write this before, RJ, yet I've not heard what you intend to do with those kids who don't want to be there. Do we just let them be illiterate and ignorant until they're ready to learn something? What exactly do you propose so that we don't have a wad of uneducated people due to their lack of desire to "be there?" How are they supposed to learn so they can get a job and be productive members of society?
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
LilacDragon;837286 wrote: AMEN!!
The problem is that we are so busy "gently guiding them" , making them feel priviledged, and making damn sure that they know that if an adult lays a hand on them for any reason the adult will go to jail - that we have lost control of these kids.
That makes a whole lot of sense to me & I agree with everyword.
It's time we as adults start to help our kids be responsible for their actions.:-6
The problem is that we are so busy "gently guiding them" , making them feel priviledged, and making damn sure that they know that if an adult lays a hand on them for any reason the adult will go to jail - that we have lost control of these kids.
That makes a whole lot of sense to me & I agree with everyword.
It's time we as adults start to help our kids be responsible for their actions.:-6
It's nice to be important,but more important to be nice.
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837292 wrote: Usually when people say "its not the money"----its the money.
As for nobody ever mouthing off in school. What school did you go to. Kids have been speaking their minds (or at least trying to) from the beginning of school. Fighting in the cafeteria has been happening for a long time as well..
I'm not sure what igloo you've been living in.
I live and went to school right outside of Detroit. Not many igloos here.
There is a huge difference between expressing your opinion and mouthing off. I am quite sure that, as an adult, you know the difference.
Yes - there was an occasional fight between students in the cafeteria (and other parts of the school) but there was also punishment and the children were held accountable for their actions.
As for nobody ever mouthing off in school. What school did you go to. Kids have been speaking their minds (or at least trying to) from the beginning of school. Fighting in the cafeteria has been happening for a long time as well..
I'm not sure what igloo you've been living in.
I live and went to school right outside of Detroit. Not many igloos here.
There is a huge difference between expressing your opinion and mouthing off. I am quite sure that, as an adult, you know the difference.
Yes - there was an occasional fight between students in the cafeteria (and other parts of the school) but there was also punishment and the children were held accountable for their actions.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837306 wrote: 99.9% of these incidents would not even be occurring if we didn't force children into the school system. The kids that want to be there, fine, but when a person is forced to be someplace or do something, they protest in what ever manner they believe they will be heard. This is one of the causes by which kids overstep bounds. If they were being listened to and taken seriously, much of this would not happen..
There you go!!
Don't ever make anyone do anything they don't want to do!! That is the answer to the question!
I believe that is called anarchy.
There you go!!
Don't ever make anyone do anything they don't want to do!! That is the answer to the question!
I believe that is called anarchy.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
RedGlitter;837323 wrote: I've seen you write this before, RJ, yet I've not heard what you intend to do with those kids who don't want to be there. Do we just let them be illiterate and ignorant until they're ready to learn something? What exactly do you propose so that we don't have a wad of uneducated people due to their lack of desire to "be there?" How are they supposed to learn so they can get a job and be productive members of society?
They seem to be trying this system in Detroit. I believe the last graduation rate I heard was something like 26% of students go on to graduate. The rest - I assume are running the streets.
I also listen to the news out of Detroit twice a day. I can't remember the last time there was a news report that DIDN'T include a shooting or a body found.
They seem to be trying this system in Detroit. I believe the last graduation rate I heard was something like 26% of students go on to graduate. The rest - I assume are running the streets.
I also listen to the news out of Detroit twice a day. I can't remember the last time there was a news report that DIDN'T include a shooting or a body found.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837329 wrote:
What skills that you received from school do you use?
Most of what is taught in school is lost on the majority of kids.
While reading, writing and arithmetic might well be the staple of the education system - the most important lessons learned have much more to do with responsibility and ethics. A child who fails a class yet puts forth 100% in effort has a much better chance of success as an adult then a child who puts forth no effort at all. THOSE are the things you learn in school.
What skills that you received from school do you use?
Most of what is taught in school is lost on the majority of kids.
While reading, writing and arithmetic might well be the staple of the education system - the most important lessons learned have much more to do with responsibility and ethics. A child who fails a class yet puts forth 100% in effort has a much better chance of success as an adult then a child who puts forth no effort at all. THOSE are the things you learn in school.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837332 wrote: Indoctrination then, thats an honest answer, and it is not what the school was not contracted to do. The school system is to educate not indoctrinate.
Ethics and responsibility is better taught and learned by family and through normal socializing, not in a place where you are forced to be.
Well - from reading the story in the OP - neither of these are being taught very successfully by some families these days.
In your life, there are plenty of things that you are required to do. School is but one of those.
I must be missing the whole indoctination thing. When I went to school, I was taught lessons by teachers, was encouraged to think for myself about the subject matter given and was responsible for completing assignments on time. Then, as now, I didn't always agree with the teacher and was willing to argue my point of veiw IN A RESPECTFUL manner.
Personally, I don't want my tax dollars to support more people who "don't want to do something". People who don't want to go to school generally don't want to get a job either. Or they have such poor skills when it comes to dealing with people and being responsible for their job, they have a hard time keeping one.
Look around you - the lower middle class and poor significantly outnumber the rich. While these, often single parents, ar out working more then one job trying to keep a roof over their families head - who do you propose watch the children who didn't want to go to school?
Ethics and responsibility is better taught and learned by family and through normal socializing, not in a place where you are forced to be.
Well - from reading the story in the OP - neither of these are being taught very successfully by some families these days.
In your life, there are plenty of things that you are required to do. School is but one of those.
I must be missing the whole indoctination thing. When I went to school, I was taught lessons by teachers, was encouraged to think for myself about the subject matter given and was responsible for completing assignments on time. Then, as now, I didn't always agree with the teacher and was willing to argue my point of veiw IN A RESPECTFUL manner.
Personally, I don't want my tax dollars to support more people who "don't want to do something". People who don't want to go to school generally don't want to get a job either. Or they have such poor skills when it comes to dealing with people and being responsible for their job, they have a hard time keeping one.
Look around you - the lower middle class and poor significantly outnumber the rich. While these, often single parents, ar out working more then one job trying to keep a roof over their families head - who do you propose watch the children who didn't want to go to school?
Sandi
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Says it all:
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
Here is more:
Sad but true.
Sad but true.
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837342 wrote: Not my problem. I am responsible for my own kids. It is our place to help when help is asked for, not until. Otherwise parents will have to take responsibility for their own families.
You might want to rethink that. Those kids, who don't want to go to school and have parents who might not be looking after them so carefully, may become your neighbors. Somehow, I don't think that a child (or teenager) who doesn't know that it is wrong to beat up a teacher is going to know that it is wrong to break into your house, steal your car, shoot your dog or sell drugs to their friends (and anyone else who happens to drop by) in your front yard.
But hey - they didn't want to go to school or get a job so more power to them.
You might want to rethink that. Those kids, who don't want to go to school and have parents who might not be looking after them so carefully, may become your neighbors. Somehow, I don't think that a child (or teenager) who doesn't know that it is wrong to beat up a teacher is going to know that it is wrong to break into your house, steal your car, shoot your dog or sell drugs to their friends (and anyone else who happens to drop by) in your front yard.
But hey - they didn't want to go to school or get a job so more power to them.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837342 wrote:
I am looking around me and I am watching the educational system of my country fall apart because the adults just want to shake their finger at the situation.
No. You are looking around you and watching the educational system of your country fall apart because we are turning into an "it's all about what I want" society.
I am looking around me and I am watching the educational system of my country fall apart because the adults just want to shake their finger at the situation.
No. You are looking around you and watching the educational system of your country fall apart because we are turning into an "it's all about what I want" society.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837348 wrote: She is a senior, is she not? She appaerntly hadn't learned learned it in school either.
Nor will she. The kinder, gentler laws don't allow it.
Nor will she. The kinder, gentler laws don't allow it.
Sandi
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837353 wrote: I'm not afraid of these kids because I have reason to be. I've not done anything to them.
You seem to suggest that anyone who is not educated to your standards is stupid and therefore barbaric. I disagree.
If you believe that's gonna stop anyone, I've got a lovely bridge to sell you.....
You seem to suggest that anyone who is not educated to your standards is stupid and therefore barbaric. I disagree.
If you believe that's gonna stop anyone, I've got a lovely bridge to sell you.....
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837353 wrote: I'm not afraid of these kids because I have reason to be. I've not done anything to them.
You seem to suggest that anyone who is not educated to your standards is stupid and therefore barbaric. I disagree.
ROFLMAO!!
The news is full of people every single day who are killed, carjacked, whatever having never known their attacker or done anything to provoke them.
I haven't mentioned a word about educational standards and I most certainly have not called anyone stupid or barbaric.
And from the looks of the last two pages of this thread - we are never going to agree so I will just stop arguing.
You seem to suggest that anyone who is not educated to your standards is stupid and therefore barbaric. I disagree.
ROFLMAO!!
The news is full of people every single day who are killed, carjacked, whatever having never known their attacker or done anything to provoke them.
I haven't mentioned a word about educational standards and I most certainly have not called anyone stupid or barbaric.
And from the looks of the last two pages of this thread - we are never going to agree so I will just stop arguing.
Sandi
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
I would like whatever it is RJ has been smoking please. 
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
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LilacDragon
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Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837357 wrote: Its not an argument, its a conversation that needs to occur in the US. This is the problem with us, either we are right or we walk away indignant. Too bad we've been educated that way.
Also, everything you've mentioned here only proves what your defending isn't working.
No. It means I have other things to do with my life then argue with you here. Like help my son with his homework.
I am not defending the education system as it stands but I certainly think that your method isn't the answer.
Also, everything you've mentioned here only proves what your defending isn't working.
No. It means I have other things to do with my life then argue with you here. Like help my son with his homework.
I am not defending the education system as it stands but I certainly think that your method isn't the answer.
Sandi
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837358 wrote: If your following the conversation, you understand that I meant that children are not violent simply because they are not in school.
Agreed, but from what I can gather, you think not sending them to school is going to help? Children need discipline, they need to realise that the world does not owe them a living! I see what you're saying, but by the same token then, you believe that people who don't want to work shouldn't have to? What will happen to these kids if they don't go to school? Do you have any ideas as to where they should spend their time?
Please understand, I'm not having a go at you, I'm genuinally interested because I agree to an extent. I think it's wrong that we expect our kids to be good at every subject. If they don't come home with all A's, parents go off. We don't expect adults to be good at everything, so why the kids? However, the idea that they shouldn't go to school at all if they don't want to makes absolutely no sense to me. We would end up with a society full of angry, bored, unskilled, selfish.............ummmmm, what we have now :-1 And no, schools are not responsible for raising our children to be decent adults, but a lot of what they learn about how the real world works comes from schools.
On the topic though, I think the girl that assaulted the teacher should be up on charges, the person who videoed it should be on charges, and isn't there some kind of Good Samaratin law that says you have to help someone in need? Her class should be held accountable for doing nothing, how hard can it be for a class of people to stop one girl?
Agreed, but from what I can gather, you think not sending them to school is going to help? Children need discipline, they need to realise that the world does not owe them a living! I see what you're saying, but by the same token then, you believe that people who don't want to work shouldn't have to? What will happen to these kids if they don't go to school? Do you have any ideas as to where they should spend their time?
Please understand, I'm not having a go at you, I'm genuinally interested because I agree to an extent. I think it's wrong that we expect our kids to be good at every subject. If they don't come home with all A's, parents go off. We don't expect adults to be good at everything, so why the kids? However, the idea that they shouldn't go to school at all if they don't want to makes absolutely no sense to me. We would end up with a society full of angry, bored, unskilled, selfish.............ummmmm, what we have now :-1 And no, schools are not responsible for raising our children to be decent adults, but a lot of what they learn about how the real world works comes from schools.
On the topic though, I think the girl that assaulted the teacher should be up on charges, the person who videoed it should be on charges, and isn't there some kind of Good Samaratin law that says you have to help someone in need? Her class should be held accountable for doing nothing, how hard can it be for a class of people to stop one girl?
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
As someone who's been going to college to become a teacher, i find this story very disturbing, it almost makes me want to rethink my career choice!:(
Kids beat up teacher while class watches
rjwould;837361 wrote: More meaningful dialog. Unbelievable!
You seem to be stuck on this whole science fiction idea of Utopia.
There were no school shootings, and violence against teachers because kids had boundaries. Parents weren't afraid of their kids, or were actually around to set boundaries and tell their kids no. Children need authority, they need rules, they need education, they need boundaries. You cannot raise your kids with out these unless you want brats who will resort to any means to not do what they are told.
You seem to be stuck on this whole science fiction idea of Utopia.
There were no school shootings, and violence against teachers because kids had boundaries. Parents weren't afraid of their kids, or were actually around to set boundaries and tell their kids no. Children need authority, they need rules, they need education, they need boundaries. You cannot raise your kids with out these unless you want brats who will resort to any means to not do what they are told.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son