What can God never see?

Alfagreyus · Post by **Alfagreyus** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:40 pm

Hi!

Without taking into account the issue of establishing a stone by God, which he won't be able to pick up, how do you think, may be something in this world, what can God never see?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:42 am

Hi...

I'm sorry but I'm afraid I don't understand the question....?

---------------- Listening to: Joan Baez / La Llorona via FoxyTunes

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:26 am

Why discount the issue of establishing a stone by God? The question (What can God never...) is purely philosophical, you can scarcely consider it practical. In what other sense can you approach it?

The question exists to discuss the definition or nature of omnipotence and God, it's what it was designed for. Once you assert a meaning of omnipotence and God you give yourself the answer. Given that your meaning of the words and mine will disagree, our answers will be different. There is no God to be omnipotent anyway, what there is is a word God and a word omnipotent both of which are philosophical constructs.

If you manage to get your definition of that word God to match the actual state of the universe then your God is real but only because you made the effort to be realistic. In being realistic you've made "omnipotent" meaningless so the entire question of establishing a stone by God goes nowhere. If you insist on getting your definition of that word God to contradict the actual state of the universe then your God is an idol and His omnipotence is equally false.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:44 am

Alfagreyus;831520 wrote: Hi!

Without taking into account the issue of establishing a stone by God, which he won't be able to pick up, how do you think, may be something in this world, what can God never see?
The impossible.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:37 pm

When Adam & Eve ate from the Tree of Knowledge they realised they were naked & hid themselves from God in their embarrasment. God asked them where they were, maybe he couldn't see them because they hid.

Or maybe he didn't see them because they shut themselves away from him. Maybe God can see everything, but needs us to accept him before we can see him in the wonders he does.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:46 pm

God can never see a solipsist, unless, of course, the solipsist invents a God to which the ability is designated. But even then, it will only be the solipsist seeing himself as he can only rely on the contents of his own mind, thus God is nothing more than an extrapolation of his own imagination...

Oh, and he can't see me on the toilet. I have taken all my toys from China and plastered them to the ceiling. Ha! Try to use your x-ray vision now, God.

Post by **spot** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:59 pm

That's Superwoman, you strange person. She's for ever watching me through walls unless I mask her out with heavy metal. Toys from China work, Black Sabbath's more fun.

Even those who arrange and design deities[1] are under considerable stress in this period in history.

[1] Not, sadly, a theogonist. A small prize will be awarded in exchange for the correct word. A theogonatrix?

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:25 pm

spot;832523 wrote: That's Superwoman, you strange person. She's for ever watching me through walls unless I mask her out with heavy metal. Toys from China work, Black Sabbath's more fun.

Even those who arrange and design deities[1] are under considerable stress in this period in history.

[1] Not, sadly, a theogonist. A small prize will be awarded in exchange for the correct word. A theogonatrix?

awww spot, really? You think I'm strange? :-4

I wanna be a theogonatrix. Sounds fun! I'll wear a leather toga as I write and my editors can flog themselves with my cat o' nine tails.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:54 am

I think someone's got to have eyeballs to see. Clearly God interacts with the world in a more olfactory way.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:10 pm

For your given use of the word God that's quite likely true. Your use of the word God isn't particularly insightful though, and I have difficulty treating it seriously enough to discuss at any length. It's an interesting word with a considerable history, why waste it?

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:19 pm

God is everything, all the time, he is not seperate from the rock, he is the rock, and he is you looking at the rock, and he is the time it takes to do it, and he is the the entire past history of the rock and its constituent atoms and particles all the way back to the beginning of time in this universe, he is also the entire future history of the rock through all possible combinations of events, and you and everything you know and don't know until the end of time as it appears to us. There is nothing that he cannot see, do or be; for he is all things everywhere at all time (which is just another manifestation of his existence, as are we). If god is not everything, then he is not God, for if he is not all things, and all time and existence, then he is just part of a greater reality that transcends him also, so for those that believe in God, the question is a non sequiter.

Post by **spot** » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:30 pm

Well, except when he manifests of course. When he's manifesting he's usually spray-painting small monkeys on walls in run-down parts of London and Bristol.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:56 am

spot;833438 wrote: Well, except when he manifests of course. When he's manifesting he's usually spray-painting small monkeys on walls in run-down parts of London and Bristol.

You see this is why I don't believe in an interventionist god. Those monkey's were put there by creationists to confuse god if you ask me.. :wah:

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:57 am

Jester;833459 wrote: Nothing, God is blind, he has no sight.

No love is blind,

But then God is love isn't he

So maybe he is also blind,

So he is blind

But he can also see, because he sees everything

That's God for you.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:34 am

If I understood enough about superstring theory it is entirely possible that the whole of creation is held in the mind of God, who is at least a 13 dimensional being and watches elixer and spot on the toilet from every conceivable angle at once.

NB: when on the toilet, praise God for gravity.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:31 am

Clodhopper;835100 wrote: If I understood enough about superstring theory it is entirely possible that the whole of creation is held in the mind of God, who is at least a 13 dimensional being and watches elixer and spot on the toilet from every conceivable angle at once.

NB: when on the toilet, praise God for gravity.

Its actually 11 dimensions, just to keep it scientific. :wah:

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:33 am

spot;833438 wrote: Well, except when he manifests of course. When he's manifesting he's usually spray-painting small monkeys on walls in run-down parts of London and Bristol.

Also god is the idea of manifestation as well, as he is all concepts and ideas at all times. So he can manifest whatever way he likes, and not be transcended by the reality he manifests into as he can be that as well, at the same time, which is him as well. Now my head hurts, which is why theology was never my strong point. :wah:

Omni_Skittles · Post by **Omni_Skittles** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:41 am

Accountable;831573 wrote: The impossible.I like that...

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:10 am

Its actually 11 dimensions, just to keep it scientific.

Chuckle. Couldn't remember how many they were saying were necessary to explain gravity - but God has to be at least one more dimension, to contain the others. Can we settle on 12?

Betcha they decide a couple more dimensions are needed to explain Guinness. :p

Or do we have to start imagining a God of infinite dimensions?:-3

At which point Clodhopper's head starts going round and round and he finds God has rained into his work shoes, which he left outside the door. :rolleyes:

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 7:21 am

Clodhopper;835322 wrote: Chuckle. Couldn't remember how many they were saying were necessary to explain gravity - but God has to be at least one more dimension, to contain the others. Can we settle on 12?

Betcha they decide a couple more dimensions are needed to explain Guinness. :p

Or do we have to start imagining a God of infinite dimensions?:-3

At which point Clodhopper's head starts going round and round and he finds God has rained into his work shoes, which he left outside the door. :rolleyes:

Guinness has only one dimension, and its down. :wah:

As for god, well I guess only he can really answer any of this, maybe he has been on holiday for a while.