Third graders conspire murder

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:33 am

Have you guys heard about this?

There may be some credence to that other thread about the third grader trying to get high on his markers afterall...

All joking aside, wow. What did this teacher do to earn such ire? The police chief is charging that it was a reaction to a time-out punishment. I find this really hard to reconcile with the degree of their abhorrence. Why would they all go along with it?

11 Students Plotted To Kill Third-Grade Teacher

WAYCROSS, Ga. -- Eleven students got together and plotted to kill their teacher, even going so far as to bring handcuffs and a knife to school, Waycross police said

One of the teacher's relatives said each child at Center Elementary School in Waycross had a job to do, including one assigned to wipe up the blood.

The plot unraveled over the weekend when a student tipped off police, Local 6 reported.

School officials said they never imagined that some of the 8- and 9-year-olds boys and girls at the school would think of bringing physical harm to a teacher, WJXT reported.

"A plan had been developed amongst several of our third-grade students to allegedly do harm to their teacher," said Theresa Martin, of Ware County Schools. "It's shocking that they would think of this at their young age. I think that is probably the most shocking part for all of us," Martin said.

In addition to the knife being found, the school officials said other students had duct tape, handcuffs, ribbon and a heavy crystal paperweight.

The police chief in Waycross said that he believes the plan may have been developed because one of the students was punished with some sort of time out. However, that theory remains under investigation.

"I can't believe that -- because he's a third-grader. You know, I cannot believe that. Especially, for here," said parent Doris Rowland.

The children could face expulsion and criminal charges pending the investigation.

http://www.local6.com/news/15757528/detail.html

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:47 am

that is very very sad.....all I can say....I'm speechless.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:50 am

elixer;829113 wrote: Have you guys heard about this?

There may be some credence to that other thread about the third grader trying to get high on his markers afterall...

All joking aside, wow. What did this teacher do to earn such ire? The police chief is charging that it was a reaction to a time-out punishment. I find this really hard to reconcile with the degree of their abhorrence. Why would they all go along with it?

11 Students Plotted To Kill Third-Grade Teacher

WAYCROSS, Ga. -- Eleven students got together and plotted to kill their teacher, even going so far as to bring handcuffs and a knife to school, Waycross police said

One of the teacher's relatives said each child at Center Elementary School in Waycross had a job to do, including one assigned to wipe up the blood.

The plot unraveled over the weekend when a student tipped off police, Local 6 reported.

School officials said they never imagined that some of the 8- and 9-year-olds boys and girls at the school would think of bringing physical harm to a teacher, WJXT reported.

"A plan had been developed amongst several of our third-grade students to allegedly do harm to their teacher," said Theresa Martin, of Ware County Schools. "It's shocking that they would think of this at their young age. I think that is probably the most shocking part for all of us," Martin said.

In addition to the knife being found, the school officials said other students had duct tape, handcuffs, ribbon and a heavy crystal paperweight.

The police chief in Waycross said that he believes the plan may have been developed because one of the students was punished with some sort of time out. However, that theory remains under investigation.

"I can't believe that -- because he's a third-grader. You know, I cannot believe that. Especially, for here," said parent Doris Rowland.

The children could face expulsion and criminal charges pending the investigation.

http://www.local6.com/news/15757528/detail.html

Kids today get too much exposure to violence through TV, video games etc. I grew up before TV. We had a radio, read books and played games. Things like that against teachers were not common then.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:07 am

I heard about this, it is truly mind-boggling, god help the lot of us, what in the name of god are we teaching our children? :-2

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:12 am

rjwould;829211 wrote: It's what we are not teaching them, IMHO...Our children are warehoused in buildings we call schools, are subject to ridicule and bullying from each other, teachers and parents. They resent us for it. But hey now that these have been caught, we can profile the rest and get them all on behavior modification drugs. Thats much easier than truly fixing the system and examining our own motives.

I was brought up in the catholic school system through the '40-50's. Some of the nuns never missed an opportunity to slap the snot out of someone, often me. To make matters worse, I was being bullied on the playground.

Dad took me aside one day after I came home from a double battering at school. A nun threw a book at me because I didn't know the answer to some non-important event. Then, I was beat up after school for being a poor ball handler in a playground ball game we were forced to take part in. Dad said he would handle things with the nuns but I had to take care of myself on the playground. Then he taught me the fundamentals of self defense.

The nuns left me alone and in a few days I was set upon by one of the playground thugs. In short, I broke his nose and was kicking him to a pulp when a priest pulled me away. That was the last fight I ever had in school AND was never hit by another nun.

Kids grow up today thinking they have tons of rights. When I was a little snotwad, I only knew I had one right. The right to obey, or else. And thats all I got to say on that subject.

hoppy · Post by **hoppy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:21 am

rjwould;829320 wrote: I'm speechless..

Thats the best thing I heard outa you.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:33 am

hoppy;829197 wrote: Kids today get too much exposure to violence through TV, video games etc. I grew up before TV. We had a radio, read books and played games. Things like that against teachers were not common then.

I am of the opinion that the most pernicious contribution is how violence is sensationalized in the news. Every time there is some sort of incident, there's a ripple of copy-cat threats/reenactments across the country. I am not trying to argue that watching the news spurs homicidal tendencies, but I think that the perceived glory of these acts of violence by people who already have homicidal fantasies may embold them.

Without delving too deeply into the psychology of school related violence, there seems to be a common trend- the perpetrators of these crimes endeavor for the attention, the glory, to become some sort of iconic anti-hero. By sating this hunger with non-stop coverage, are we somehow consolidating these aims in others?

A 20 year old in Miami was just arrested for making threats to reenact the Virginia tech massacre. Police found a cache of weapons, including four AK-47s, in his possession. His brother's explanation was, "He's investing in firearms, meaning buy a lot of firearms. When the ban hits, meaning when Hillary becomes president, she's thinking of banning guns," the suspect's brother said at his family's China King restaurant here, about 30 miles south of Miami. "She bans guns, then guns going to rise up super high." :rolleyes:

story

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:50 am

Kids today are not taught they are to respect their elders, and obey them. They know all they have to do is scream abuse or plot and scheme like these kids. Then it's decided something is wrong with them mentally and put on drugs.

And I agree with Elixer also, there is to much glorification of violence in the news.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:06 am

Do what?? Resentment for respecting their elders?

So you never taught your kids to respect their elders? To use yes sir, no sir, open doors for the elderly, help someone if you see they need help, ect...? :-2

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:52 am

rjwould;829700 wrote: I disagree. I think children to over taught about respecting elders to the point that they resent it. What kids are hearing is everyone is more important than them.

That's controvertible territory you're wandering into. I agree on the point that when they are taught that their self-worth pales in comparison, they might begin to harbor resentment. That kind of follows the vein of the catholic school etiquette described by hoppy- when fear that has been instilled is the impetus of their behavior, the result will most likely be a lack of appreciation for what respect really is.

On the other side of the token, kids who are never exposed to discipline, or are pandered to, tend to grow up being self-centered and churlish.

There needs to be a balance. Children should be treated with the same deference that they are expected to show, and gently guided back into place when they step out of line.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:19 am

rjwould;829809 wrote: Sure, but through example, conversation and reason. Not by hammering it into them fundamentally and demanding they do as I say and not as I do. My kids have so much respect for others that I stand in awe of them. They not only respect elders, but they respect those smaller and younger as well. They speak and act with respect to all people.

Trust me it was never hammered into my kids. It was just taught along with basic manners. But I agree, I also try to teach by example. Most days I'm good about it, then there are some days that I have to explain myself to my kids. That can be humbling.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:47 am

But why now?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:00 pm

rjwould;829868 wrote: If you mean (now) as in terms of history, I have a hunch that children's imagination and need to question life and authority is being stifled. Why not now? It is a time and a place as good as any other.

I have to disagree. If anything kid's have no imagination in today's world. They are to absorbed in tv and video games. I have to wonder if it's not to much discipline and authority that caused this, but the fact the kids were finally exposed to having discipline and authority.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:10 pm

They are 8 and 9 years old. Shoving them into state-run systems is not going to solve anything. Neither will expelling them. They are young enough that they can be rehabillitated.

The parents need to take accountability for their children, yes. The (typical) collective reaction is to blame external sources. Too much violence in video games, on t.v. etc. This belies the problem. We are so quick to point our fingers and pass the responsibility off. Until we can get to the root of the problem and really examine how we as a society, parents, teachers, etc. are handling these issues, it will never stop.

Why now? Because we have become this disgustingly individualistic society where responsibility is delegated to everyone and everything else. Kids are going to have a hard time learning the consequences of their actions, especially in a society where violence is glorified.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:16 pm

rjwould;829882 wrote: But isn't that indicative of our culture, Sheryl? We are an audience in perpetuity, either we play or we watch. In school children learn to take life sitting down. Just look at us adults, we are yesterdays students. All of us. If we are to blame as parents like Jester suggests, then we can trace our roots back to the school system, which failed us all as family members.

Our opinions on public school are different, but we also live in different areas of the country.

Jester;829884 wrote: Trust the school system? No Way! Its my child, I always check and always verify where, who, and what is being taught my child.

Its every parents responsibilty to ensure their child gets an education, if they use the public school sytem then they need to raise their kid well enough that when they send them to school they are teachable and respect authority. If not then they are a disruption to the teachers and impede education and drag those kids down that already know how to learn and want to. I say keep sending those kids who disrupt right back home with a note pinned to their shirts that say, Mother/Father, please correct your child well enough that when they/she returns he is not a disruption, you do your part and then I can teach your child. Do that every single time and parents will get the message.

I agree. It is the parent's responsibility to make their children understand that they are to respect the authority and rules that comes with going to school, church, group, ect.

I still believe the parents of the children of the OP do hold some blame. I'm not sure about an extreme punishment as Jester suggests. But I do think folks who chose to have kids need to open their eyes and understand that you cannot rely on meds, tv, the school, to raise your kids to be respectable adults. It is first and foremost the responsibility of the parent.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:36 pm

Jester;829899 wrote: The root lies with the parents and the chidlren, its obvious at the behavior of the children that the parents either failed to teach them beacuse they dont see the importance of it, or thewy dont have the time. Forcing them together will either make or break them, its the parents who knows theses children the best. I offered an atlernative of doign that as opposed to putting them into the system, fisrt it shoudl be the parents option, its no the nest fix I agree, but some sort of higher authoprity thatn the parent needs to intevien.

I have a hard time blaming the teachers here, or the school, its not thier basicly train their behavior its their mandate to teach them the basics of an education. This is criminal behavior, I have no doubt the parents are negligent in my ideology of training a chidl and protecting them form the violence depicted in the media, but again, either we force them to take thier responsibilty to we must take it form them. These kids need to face thier own crime though, telling them its not thier responsibilty is foolish at best, they need a blast of reality and the demonstration that thier behavior although tolerated by their parents, wont be tolerated by society.

In my opinion they need to be rehabilitated in another school, not back to the same one, for the teachers peace of mind alone. But also to teach the other students that when somethign of this severity happens theres no going back form it, its a life changing event. We have to think about those students who are teachable and focus in the ones who want to learn.

It is not a matter of blaming teachers...it's not a matter of ascribing blame to any one person. It is a matter of examining what is happening in the world at large. Why the hell did eleven 8 year olds conspire to murder their teacher, with only one stopping to think "hey, this is wrong." ? The gravity of this situation stretches far beyond how these kids are being raised within their homes. It goes beyond how they are being taught. Something is seriously askew in this society. We all need to take responsibility. It takes a village to raise a child...

I don't disagree that they need to be disciplined. Of course they do. But by expelling them, you're only relocating the problem, quite literally.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:02 pm

rjwould;829920 wrote: It seems so easy for us as a society to deny that there must be something wrong which is larger than a person or two. We micro manage and micro-examine too much. We need to focus out a lot and see the entire picture. America has got some serious troubles which are eating us from the inside-out.

Beatuifully said. It's easier to isolate one culprit. Then we can wipe our hands clean and declare the issue is resolved. This country is notorious for doing it. This could open up a whole new discussion on how the legal system operates on this very principle.

You can clean up wounds topically, but until you go internally, the infection will never heal.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:52 pm

ummmmmmmmmmmm..i live in this town:-3

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:59 pm

guppy gets out her map and starts looking for a new pond to swim in..but where? :-2

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:29 am

I've given this issue quite a bit of thought today because it was that disturbing to me. I got to thinking about the Columbine-type cases and situations similar that are always cropping up. Some blame probably rests with the parents. Some blame may rest with watching too many episodes of "Murder She Wrote" or whatever. And I'm going to say that some of the blame goes to the kids as well. I know when I was 8-9 years old, I knew the difference between pretending to be the Wicked Queen and trying to poison my cousin, Snow White, with a harmless apple....and a "real live murder" like the one that happened up the street one night. So that's my take on the cops and robbers theory.

I have never understood the mutation concept. Like fish used to have tails until they stopped walking on land then their tails became fins. And even people once had a tail appendage until evidently we stopped needing it. This isn't about tails, but rather a different mutation. One having to do with mind and conscience. I keep thinking that over time, kids are becoming worse and worse. (Not just kids but all of us in general) I think they've outgrown the public school system which was originally designed to encourage conformity and keep kids busy when they weren't working their parents' farms. I think it's time to revamp the system. But it can't be blamed just on school. It's a little of everything, I think. Some holler "both parents work!!" Well lots of us were latchkey kids and we turned out all right. We could find reasons to toss out all of the aforementioned theories. I just think we are outgrowing polite society. Respect goes BOTH ways. I see that adults have just as little respect for kids as kids do for adults. Todays; kid is too smart to respect someone just because they're told to and overall, I think that's a good thing. Respect has to be earned or it's nothing. But what to do with these "rotten" kids, these bad apples when they pull this stuff??

How about trucking them up to the state prison and letting them have a face to face with a convicted murderer? Is that too much for an 8 year old? Well so is making murder plans. I feel really badly for that teacher.

---------------- Listening to: Mozart - Moonlight Sonata via FoxyTunes

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:04 am

Guppy, i'd be really interested to hear what the local reaction is to this incident. If you can offer any additional details, it would be much appreciated. I am specifically curious to know the demographics of the community.

Jester, you argue that the blame is to be placed enitrely on the parents. I personally have a hard time believing that every parent of the eleven children involved has somehow failed their child miserably. I will concede that the foundation of their moral judgement begins within the home, but outside forces also shape their perceptions. Consider the schoolyard where the rules are very different.

This is an individualistic, autonomous society. It wasn't always so, and we didn't always have these problems. Your myopic argument fails to explain the prevalence of these cases. What are the parents doing (or not doing) to raise such inadvertent children?

Responsibility falls at the feet of society. Something is wrong here- can't you see that? Of course the parents are accountable to an extent, but this is an eye-opening testament that this is not a microcosmic incident. The problem is that we don't look beyond the molecular level. It's just easier to pinpoint blame and shake our heads in disdain as we pass by, than it is to stop and understand that we are a community, that this isn't just the parent's problem, that it belongs to all of us. These children stand to inherit our legacy and if we don't reach out and make a collective effort, they don't have a chance in hell.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:08 am

elixer;830278 wrote: Guppy, i'd be really interested to hear what the local reaction is to this incident. If you can offer any additional details, it would be much appreciated. I am specifically curious to know the demographics of the community.

Jester, you argue that the blame is to be placed enitrely on the parents. I personally have a hard time believing that every parent of the eleven children involved has somehow failed their child miserably. I will concede that the foundation of their moral judgement begins within the home, but outside forces also shape their perceptions. Consider the schoolyard where the rules are very different.

This is an individualistic, autonomous society. It wasn't always so, and we didn't always have these problems. Your myopic argument fails to explain the prevalence of these cases. What are the parents doing (or not doing) to raise such inadvertent children?

Responsibility falls at the feet of society. Something is wrong here- can't you see that? Of course the parents are accountable to an extent, but this is an eye-opening testament that this is not a microcosmic incident. The problem is that we don't look beyond the molecular level. It's just easier to pinpoint blame and shake our heads in disdain as we pass by, than it is to stop and understand that we are a community, that this isn't just the parent's problem, that it belongs to all of us. These children stand to inherit our legacy and if we don't reach out and make a collective effort, they don't have a chance in hell.

i havent heard much on this ..if i do.i will pass it along..how the school dealt with it..the parents..i am not sure..one thing to remember is this teacher was teaching a class of challenged kids..labeled..i have substituted these classes before..and as in most cases..children follow their peers..it only takes one bad apple.one with corrupt thoughts to affect other influential children...we know this about teenagers..children grow up faster now..see more..experience things..that previous generations were spared untill older..so we see things younger and younger..who do we blame? society, parents..who? does it matter? the point is ..it is happening at a younger and younger age..and as a society we are and should be prepared for the way we all live now..its a sad but true fact..with knowlege..also comes responsibility..

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:36 am

beyond this one incident..what is happening to the family as a whole? eh? very few children are growing up with their original mother and father..step parenting is the norm now..many children are being raised by their grandparents..where are their parents..they are out doing their own thing..drinking..partying, drugs..multiple boyfreinds and girlfriends..we have become a me society..step in any elementary classroom and spend a little time with a second or third grader..in a very short time you can pick out the children of alchoholic or drugging parents..or the abusive..neglectful parents..ask any teacher of elementary school if they can see the children of dysfunctional families and you will get a resounding YES..It should be mandatory that any person that has a child should have to sit in a few elementary classes..you think what you do doesnt affect your kids..you are a darn fool..the problem is..as a society we dont address it..head on..how do you correct it? how do you stop it? i volunteered for years in first grade and spent extra time with the children that were behind reading..in almost..ALMOST every incidence after just talking with these kids..i could hear their family dynamics loud and clear. and it wasnt pretty ...what is ****ed up about it..is it had become the norm...and as a society we choose to ignore it..

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:46 am

elixer;830278 wrote: Guppy, i'd be really interested to hear what the local reaction is to this incident. If you can offer any additional details, it would be much appreciated. I am specifically curious to know the demographics of the community.

Jester, you argue that the blame is to be placed enitrely on the parents. I personally have a hard time believing that every parent of the eleven children involved has somehow failed their child miserably. I will concede that the foundation of their moral judgement begins within the home, but outside forces also shape their perceptions. Consider the schoolyard where the rules are very different.

This is an individualistic, autonomous society. It wasn't always so, and we didn't always have these problems. Your myopic argument fails to explain the prevalence of these cases. What are the parents doing (or not doing) to raise such inadvertent children?

Responsibility falls at the feet of society. Something is wrong here- can't you see that? Of course the parents are accountable to an extent, but this is an eye-opening testament that this is not a microcosmic incident. The problem is that we don't look beyond the molecular level. It's just easier to pinpoint blame and shake our heads in disdain as we pass by, than it is to stop and understand that we are a community, that this isn't just the parent's problem, that it belongs to all of us. These children stand to inherit our legacy and if we don't reach out and make a collective effort, they don't have a chance in hell.
This is 100% on the parents. It is their job to overcome all the bad examples, flawed rules, cracks in society, etc. etc. etc. They took on that responsibility when they chose to raise their children. That doesn't relieve anyone else who has contact with the children to also teach them how to function properly in society, but the parents are also responsible who those people will be. They can't just send 'em to school and wipe their hands.

That teacher likely did something to deserve this kind of overreaction, probably accidentally but still. A good parent would catch clues from daily talks with his kid of something like this long before it blew up. A good parent would instill in a child this age the wisdom to steer clear of bad kids.

To depend on society to keep your kid safe is to depend on the water to keep him from drowning.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:43 am

Its my sense that like RedG said, in many respects the social institutions and values we used to have have not been able to cope with the wholscale changes in Western society over the past 50 years.

Particularly family breakdown number one;

an ever increasing sense of entitlement with no sense of responsibility to wider society (upon which in reality 100 percent of your safety, affluence, and the prospects for your children is dependent upon);

politcal apathy based basically on selfishness, ignorance, and lazyness;

the increasing self-isolation which people are engaging in and subjecting their children to; (partly out of a overly devloped sense of fear driven by sensationalist comerical TV and media stories about crime);

a retreat from the reality of living as "citizens" of a state into "consumers" living in a land of constant wish fulfilment and touchy feely ignorance and nonsense driven by blind market economics (run ultimately in the interests of multi-billionaires who are our new aristocracy and absolutley don't care what is happening to our society as they are accountable to no one, and can build higher walls than anyone else);

we now perpetuate this reality with our seeming veneration of capital for its own sake and the lives of the super-rich and famous as the only example of human success that should be considered);

a foolish general belief that having lots of available capital, sex, holidays, and consumer products will make your life happy, safe and secure (which it absolutley will not, money, available sexual partners, prestige cars, holidays to Cuba or Bali, endless shopping malls, and a nice house on the hill with big walls will not save you, it just makes your life easier sometimes and allow you to ignore what's happening next door).

As far as I can see there trends are slowly killing civil society and the idea of a collective shared community and country, and unless there is a sharp change of approach back towards a more collectively responsible, community-based vision of society we will end up living in countries that will resemble failed states, with no civil society, but a state run by organized criminals, oligarch businessmen, private armies, and/or secret policemen.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:12 am

Galbally! Brilliant! an ever increasing sense of entitlement with no sense of responsibility to wider society (upon which in reality 100 percent of your safety, affluence, and the prospects for your children is dependent upon);

As far as I can see there trends are slowly killing civil society and the idea of a collective shared community and country, and unless there is a sharp change of approach back towards a more collectively responsible, community-based vision of society we will end up living in countries that will resemble failed states, with no civil society, but a state run by organized criminals, oligarch businessmen, private armies, and/or secret policemen.

Thank you!

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:36 am

Accountable;830291 wrote: This is 100% on the parents. It is their job to overcome all the bad examples, flawed rules, cracks in society, etc. etc. etc. They took on that responsibility when they chose to raise their children. That doesn't relieve anyone else who has contact with the children to also teach them how to function properly in society, but the parents are also responsible who those people will be. They can't just send 'em to school and wipe their hands.

Nowhere have I said that the parents are somehow exonerated from responsibility.

My whole point is that we have a hard time seeing the bigger picture. We need to pan back and recognize that there's a reason why incidents like this one are happening across the country. It would be one thing if it was an isloated incident, but it's not.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:55 pm

elixer;830861 wrote: Nowhere have I said that the parents are somehow exonerated from responsibility.

My whole point is that we have a hard time seeing the bigger picture. We need to pan back and recognize that there's a reason why incidents like this one are happening across the country. It would be one thing if it was an isloated incident, but it's not.
You said they were accountable to an extent. I'm saying they're fully responsible. Matters not one bit if its an isolated incident, a trend, or an epidemic. We all have responsibilities to conduct ourselves to benefit society as a whole, of course. But responsibility for a child's upbringing lies only in one place.

elixer · Post by **elixer** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:01 pm

I am not disputing that it is up to the parents to bring-up their children. Don't confuse what I am trying to say.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:12 pm

elixer;831417 wrote: I am not disputing that it is up to the parents to bring-up their children. Don't confuse what I am trying to say.
'kay :-3

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:00 am

IMO those third graders have every much right to wage war against their teacher, as the childish adults running this country have in attacking a sovereign country. The only difference I see in the leaders of the country, and children, is size.

True, it is terrifying the thought of being beaten up by a smaller person, but if a person can't fend for themselves, against 3rd graders, they probably deserve whatever they get.

Our culture is based on the principle that the largest bully takes all. We should be proud that younger people have taken the incentive to join the game earlier than their parents did. That's a mark of progress. These kids are f***en prodigies!

I'm sure all this will resolve itself, and those kids will grow up to be "successful" CEO's, military leaders, politicians or whatnot.

I'm mostly kidding here.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:17 am

rjwould;831915 wrote: They certainly do exhibit the right qualities for it don't they?

Yeah ... they just need a little polish and a nice respectable tie.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:25 pm

yaaarrrgg;831738 wrote: IMO those third graders have every much right to wage war against their teacher, as the childish adults running this country have in attacking a sovereign country. The only difference I see in the leaders of the country, and children, is size.

True, it is terrifying the thought of being beaten up by a smaller person, but if a person can't fend for themselves, against 3rd graders, they probably deserve whatever they get.

Our culture is based on the principle that the largest bully takes all. We should be proud that younger people have taken the incentive to join the game earlier than their parents did. That's a mark of progress. These kids are f***en prodigies!

I'm sure all this will resolve itself, and those kids will grow up to be "successful" CEO's, military leaders, politicians or whatnot.

I'm mostly kidding here.

WOW...what a thing to say....I'm speechless....

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm

rjwould;832269 wrote: kathy Ellen, surely you can see the pure sarcasm in that post, can't you?

No, I'm speechless about this whole issue and can't joke about something like this happening.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:43 pm

No they're not acting like adults. They're acting like little punkasses and it needs to be stopped. Decent people do not behave this way, adult or child.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:44 pm

rjwould;832280 wrote: I don't think it was a joke as much as it was a commentary on what is happening to our children. They are becoming players in a world that takes no prisoners. They are acting like adults actually.

Yes, That's true RJ and that is what is so scary to me...I just wish that kids could just be kids. They should be playing with toys and thinking about spending time with family and friends, doing homework and thinking about summer vacation......not being so angry that they think about killing someone:-1

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:53 pm

Kathy Ellen;832277 wrote: No, I'm speechless about this whole issue and can't joke about something like this happening.

I apologize if my comments (or sarcasm) were offensive.

I haven't been following the story very closely, but I'm skeptical that those kids would really have harmed the teacher. Third graders don't typically do something like that (at least my limited experience) and I suspect they may have just been wanting to scare the teacher.

If the were serious (which I doubt) the big question in my mind is what on Earth did we as a society or the teacher do to provoke that kind of aggression?

If the students have mental or developmental disabilities, I wonder why we put these kids in an authoritarian, prison-like school system against their will, then we are surprised when they try to make an escape. I think the way kids are treated in public school systems is at times fairly cruel (though not always) ...

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:58 pm

Yarg, perhaps the teacher gave them a failing grade or took their recess away. This is what teachers do. I seriously doubt that the teacher committed any provocation for this. Whether or not the kids would have clobbered her with that paperweight or if they were just forming plans, it's not child's play. That kind of thinking warrants repercussions or you will have some crazyass teenagers/adults on your hands in due time. I think being sent home or suspended is a joke. I much prefer my idea of taking them to prison to see what awaits them if they choose to do those deeds.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:07 pm

RedGlitter;832296 wrote: Yarg, perhaps the teacher gave them a failing grade or took their recess away. This is what teachers do. I seriously doubt that the teacher committed any provocation for this. Whether or not the kids would have clobbered her with that paperweight or if they were just forming plans, it's not child's play. That kind of thinking warrants repercussions or you will have some crazyass teenagers/adults on your hands in due time. I think being sent home or suspended is a joke. I much prefer my idea of taking them to prison to see what awaits them if they choose to do those deeds.

You are probably right, that the teacher did nothing out of the norm ... although I question whether that school system itself is really "normal" and healthy though.

Why are schools trying to force those kids to learn if they don't want to? Someone that wants to learn doesn't need to be failed and punished.

The problem with the school system is it makes the assumption that you can can lead a horse to water, and force it to drink by simply applying a large amount of discomfort and cutting off it's air.

If the kids don't want to learn, why are they in school?

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:12 pm

yaaarrrgg;832305 wrote: You are probably right, that the teacher did nothing out of the norm ... although I question whether that school system itself is really "normal" and healthy though.

Why are schools trying to force those kids to learn if they don't want to? Someone that wants to learn doesn't need to be failed and punished.

The problem with the school system is it makes the assumption that you can can lead a horse to water, and force it to drink by simply applying a large amount of discomfort and cutting off it's air.

If the kids don't want to learn, why are they in school?

Because kids don't seem to realise the importance of an education until it's too late.