Why?

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koan
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Why?

Post by koan »

Please do not say "Why not?", it's already been taken.

What do you think the meaning of life is?
koan
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Post by koan »

I'll even start it out.

I think that life is about, on one level, the evolvement and perfection of our souls through trial and error so that our experience can contribute to the perfection of Being (The One Thing aka God)

I think we reincarnate over and over to learn prechosen lessons that we, as our Higher Selves, feel will contribute to the completion of Being.

I think Being (aka God) wants to know itself and so it was.

I think I am a minute piece of that endless thing that Is and every thing I or anyone else does contributes to the betterment and fulfillment of that One Thing.

I think that the only "problem" with this idea called "life" is that we feel like abandoned children...oh, I wish I'd taken the other pill...because the limitations on existence are like the worst prison a spirit could imagine. (Once it's gotten over the tactile phase).

I think there is no worry of hell beyond being human...excepting you might have to be born again. Double life sentence. Let's make this stay as enjoyable as possible, please?
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: Please do not say "Why not?", it's already been taken.

What do you think the meaning of life is?


The meaning of life is that it is always for taking.
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I'll even start it out.

I think that life is about, on one level, the evolvement and perfection of our souls through trial and error so that our experience can contribute to the perfection of Being (The One Thing aka God).

I think we reincarnate over and over to learn prechosen lessons that we, as our Higher Selves, feel will contribute to the completion of Being.

I think Being (aka God) wants to know itself and so it was.

I think I am a minute piece of that endless thing that Is and every thing I or anyone else does contributes to the betterment and fulfillment of that One Thing.

I think that the only "problem" with this idea called "life" is that we feel like abandoned children...oh, I wish I'd taken the other pill...because the limitations on existence are like the worst prison a spirit could imagine. (Once it's gotten over the tactile phase).

I think there is no worry of hell beyond being human...excepting you might have to be born again. Double life sentence. Let's make this stay as enjoyable as possible, please?


You have started well.

Life is certainly the evolvement and perfection of our souls through trial and error. But it makes ourselves perfect (not Him) so that we can unite with Him.

We reincarnate over and over to become perfect.

God knows all. He is the cause of all knowledge.

We are sure a minute piece of that endless thing and we always try to become a part of Him.

We may feel like abandoned children but He does not. He is our parent always caring for us.

Life is not a sentence. It is an opportunity to reach Him. If you do not reach Him in one life He awards you another life. So kind He is.
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koan
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Post by koan »

The meaning of life is that it is always for taking.


I think it is always for the giving.

But, before we incarnated, we were perfect. So how is self perfection logical as a goal of causing the division?
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capt_buzzard
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Post by capt_buzzard »

Oh No, not more on Religion.
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Post by koan »

Actually, it's philosophy...want to play?
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

capt_buzzard wrote: Oh No, not more on Religion.


Religion is a way of life. Improving one's life is a continuous exercise. One can't say, no, no, not more.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I think it is always for the giving.

But, before we incarnated, we were perfect. So how is self perfection logical as a goal of causing the division?


The meaning is same whether one terms it 'taking' or 'giving'.

Self perfection is not the goal for causing the division. It is for unification with God.
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: The meaning is same whether one terms it 'taking' or 'giving'.

Interesting. I've always found them quite different. One doesn't always have to give to have something taken. They are just words, though. I think we understand each other on this.

Self perfection is not the goal for causing the division. It is for unification with God.


Again, if this is true, then we were unified before the division and that can not be the goal in itself without some change in the reunification process. Otherwise it's like putting a foot through a doorway then pulling it back without taking a full step. Kinda like the hokey pokey.

For our consciousness to be so removed from the source that many doubt its existence there is more than a little hokey pokey going on. :guitarist
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: Again, if this is true, then we were unified before the division and that can not be the goal in itself without some change in the reunification process. Otherwise it's like putting a foot through a doorway then pulling it back without taking a full step. Kinda like the hokey pokey.

For our consciousness to be so removed from the source that many doubt its existence there is more than a little hokey pokey going on. :guitarist


Yes, if one is separated from other it means that one was united with the other before separation. Now the path of reunfication can be different from earlier reunifications but the goal is always same.

Any doubt about His existence is caused by our limited knowledge about Something which is the source of all knowledge.
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: Yes, if one is separated from other it means that one was united with the other before separation. Now the path of reunfication can be different from earlier reunifications but the goal is always same.


Forget what God might want you to think or say for a minute and answer the question. ;)

If you send a child out in the world, you don't want them to return exactly as they were. Otherwise, you would just keep them home. Assuming that we didn't have identities before the split, we were not like children begging to go out in the first place. So we were created just because we could be? Are we like "God"'s fertile orgasm that gave life out of the pleasure "God" derived from it?

For those non Christian philosophers, I use God to represent any Source Energy.

If we are to return in our original state of adoration and goodness, What is the purpose? Perhaps that having been given the option to be individual, we get over the thrill of it and want to be reabsorbed? This would imply a meaning of: we are here to get over ourselves. To defeat Ego. The religious platitudes don't carry as much meaning to others as they may to you. It is sometimes helpful to find other ways to express the same thing.

Any doubt about His existence is caused by our limited knowledge about Something which is the source of all knowledge.


Again, how is limiting our knowledge helpful to the goal? What is the purpose in creating us limited?
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: Forget what God might want you to think or say for a minute and answer the question. ;)

If you send a child out in the world, you don't want them to return exactly as they were. Otherwise, you would just keep them home. Assuming that we didn't have identities before the split, we were not like children begging to go out in the first place. So we were created just because we could be? Are we like "God"'s fertile orgasm that gave life out of the pleasure "God" derived from it?

For those non Christian philosophers, I use God to represent any Source Energy.

If we are to return in our original state of adoration and goodness, What is the purpose? Perhaps that having been given the option to be individual, we get over the thrill of it and want to be reabsorbed? This would imply a meaning of: we are here to get over ourselves. To defeat Ego. The religious platitudes don't carry as much meaning to others as they may to you. It is sometimes helpful to find other ways to express the same thing.

Again, how is limiting our knowledge helpful to the goal? What is the purpose in creating us limited?


It is not that easy to understand.

First of all one has to clearly understand and believe that God (Parmatman, the Highest Being or the Source Energy for Christian philosophers as you say) has no beginning and no end. Atman (human being) are separated from Him as they become imperfect by their wrong acts, and are sent in this world to become perfect and return to Him.

This cycle is eternal and has no beginning and end. Our life is a very minute part of this cycle. We have no knowledge of what happened before this life and what will happen after this life. But we know that if we want to return to Him as early as possible then we have to engage ourselves only in good acts, those acts which will go in to our credit.
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koan
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: It is not that easy to understand.

First of all one has to clearly understand and believe that God (Parmatman, the Highest Being or the Source Energy for Christian philosophers as you say) has no beginning and no end. Atman (human being) are separated from Him as they become imperfect by their wrong acts, and are sent in this world to become perfect and return to Him.

This cycle is eternal and has no beginning and end. Our life is a very minute part of this cycle. We have no knowledge of what happened before this life and what will happen after this life. But we know that if we want to return to Him as early as possible then we have to engage ourselves only in good acts, those acts which will go in to our credit.


As a recovering perfectionist, I struggle to come to terms with this description. See, in the pursuit of perfection, it is required to judge...oneself if not others, on a constant basis. This judgement and, what I have decided for my sanity, unrealistic goal of attaining perfection through thoughts and actions brought me close to mental breakdown. As well as reducing the number of people I could tolerate.

I feel I have become a much better person since I stopped trying so hard and started just BEing. An old friend of mine described me as a living Zen koan. Hence my ID choice.

When I was 16, and knew nothing of what I was saying, I pronounced that "If there is truth to be found, I want to find it so I never have to come back here again." It was simple and matter of fact. That was my goal. So, in your words, I want to return to Him as early as possible. I have spent many years deciding how to accomplish this goal and defining what that actually means. If one opens themselves to Truth it is easy to recognize. And there is Truth everywhere at every moment.

I believe this is the game: We are given an Ego. The purpose is to enjoy it and then destroy it. The idea of righteousness feeds the Ego and defeats the quest for righteousness itself. Righteousness is a trick, and a good one, to lead you to it. Most enlightening events that I have experienced have resulted from these circular "tricks". You go around and around until you get seasick and jump off with a greater understanding of being "stationary". That is, you can start to just BE. And that BEing takes you closer to the Source, which is a state of BEing on a grander scale.
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: As a recovering perfectionist, I struggle to come to terms with this description. See, in the pursuit of perfection, it is required to judge...oneself if not others, on a constant basis. This judgement and, what I have decided for my sanity, unrealistic goal of attaining perfection through thoughts and actions brought me close to mental breakdown. As well as reducing the number of people I could tolerate.


What is a recovering prefectionist and unrealistic goal of attaining perfection?

It is not required of us to judge others.

If you want to avoid a memtal breakdown then do your karma (action) and don't bother about the result. Leave the result to Him. This is called Karma Yoga in Hinduism. You have right only on your karma and not on its result.

I feel I have become a much better person since I stopped trying so hard and started just BEing. An old friend of mine described me as a living Zen koan. Hence my ID choice.

When I was 16, and knew nothing of what I was saying, I pronounced that "If there is truth to be found, I want to find it so I never have to come back here again." It was simple and matter of fact. That was my goal. So, in your words, I want to return to Him as early as possible. I have spent many years deciding how to accomplish this goal and defining what that actually means. If one opens themselves to Truth it is easy to recognize. And there is Truth everywhere at every moment.

I believe this is the game: We are given an Ego. The purpose is to enjoy it and then destroy it. The idea of righteousness feeds the Ego and defeats the quest for righteousness itself. Righteousness is a trick, and a good one, to lead you to it. Most enlightening events that I have experienced have resulted from these circular "tricks". You go around and around until you get seasick and jump off with a greater understanding of being "stationary". That is, you can start to just BE. And that BEing takes you closer to the Source, which is a state of BEing on a grander scale.


Believe in what you think is right. And if you feel satisfaction and peace then be sure that He has granted you His approval.
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koan
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Post by koan »

Suresh Gupta wrote: What is a recovering prefectionist and unrealistic goal of attaining perfection?

It is not required of us to judge others.

If you want to avoid a memtal breakdown then do your karma (action) and don't bother about the result. Leave the result to Him. This is called Karma Yoga in Hinduism. You have right only on your karma and not on its result.

Perfectionism created obsessive behaviour. Due to my intelligence, not as a brag just as something I've been told, I can get too focused on details and nuances and follow them beyond the "big picture". That is the problem with "specialists". My mind never stops. I read 4-5 books at once, I think about many things simultaneously. I forget to eat because my mind is so hungry it overpowers my body. I need to distract my mind on a constant basis to keep it from destroying day to day relationships with overanalysis. I used to see no reason for imperfection. I would go over and over every little mistake I had made in a day before I could fall asleep. Big mistakes would haunt me for years. Humans are not perfect. I am much happier and spiritual since I learned to accept that I can only do my best in the given circumstances.

Believe in what you think is right. And if you feel satisfaction and peace then be sure that He has granted you His approval.


I think that is a good guide to tolerence. People do live the results of their actions. They are happy when they live to the best of their ability and they are unhappy when they live otherwise. I recently met someone who was a drug dealer and thief. He was trying to turn his life around but struggling because his perception of the world reflected who he was. He expected to be stolen from, he expected to be idolized just for being but also to be used as all the addicts treated him. He is currently a very confused and unhappy man. I was unable to get through to him. Because I was not like the people he was familiar with, he could not accept me in his reality of fear and hate. Let a person's conscience be their guide. Well said.
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I think that is a good guide to tolerence. People do live the results of their actions. They are happy when they live to the best of their ability and they are unhappy when they live otherwise. I recently met someone who was a drug dealer and thief. He was trying to turn his life around but struggling because his perception of the world reflected who he was. He expected to be stolen from, he expected to be idolized just for being but also to be used as all the addicts treated him. He is currently a very confused and unhappy man. I was unable to get through to him. Because I was not like the people he was familiar with, he could not accept me in his reality of fear and hate. Let a person's conscience be their guide. Well said.


Yes, let a person's conscience be his guide.

A man went to a saint and asked him, what is good and what is bad. Saint told him that he himself should decide that. Man asked him if I kill and eat another man will it be good or bad? saint told him if killing and eating another man gives him satisfaction and peace then it is good, otherwise it is bad. The saint then told the man that this is the most simple way of deciding what is good and what is bad. Ask yourself this question and then act. The man could understand. He thanked the saint and went to his family to live as a satisfied and peacuful person.
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Post by koan »

I do wonder though, if the man asked if eating the saint would be good or bad would the saint still have responded the same way? :yh_giggle
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: I do wonder though, if the man asked if eating the saint would be good or bad would the saint still have responded the same way? :yh_giggle


I see the humor in your message and I also enjoyed it.

Coming back to the point, yes, the saint would have responded in the same manner. You know why, because he is a saint.
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Post by koan »

Suresh,

Apparently we are the only ones with any idea why we are here!

The situation is worse than I thought. What shall we do? Oh, yes we are starting a path...but what if no one follows? At least you and I might get somewhere. :yh_giggle
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Suresh Gupta
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Post by Suresh Gupta »

koan wrote: Suresh,

Apparently we are the only ones with any idea why we are here!

The situation is worse than I thought. What shall we do? Oh, yes we are starting a path...but what if no one follows? At least you and I might get somewhere. :yh_giggle


Sometime back I wrote a poem in Hindi.

Let me try to translate it in English -

"When I started on my Karma-Path (path of action) I was alone. With every success people started joining me on my path. And soon it became a movement. a movement of faith and confidence in oneself . A movement of love."
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Post by kensloft »

koan wrote: Please do not say "Why not?", it's already been taken.

What do you think the meaning of life is?


Didn't Brian do that movie already?
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