Fat--fat--fat--fat

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:36 pm

I have read about it in the Press and magazines, but this week is the first time I have really paid attention. Having gone to two large public events, I really started noticing how many OBESE, I mean HUGE, HIPPOHERCULEAN people there are in our society. What the hell has happened? I see 35 and 40 year olds about two steps away from a Massive Coronary, and kids for crying out loud that are total blimps. Unless there is a glandular problem or some other physiological cause of this huge amount of bulk there is no excuse for it. Is it a death wish?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:45 pm

walk through my local walmart and you will see not only 450 pound females in spandex, (males too) but their poor kids are terribly obese, and it will affect their entire lives negatively. there are many societal and medical reasons i am sure, but one is poverty...the poor eat cheaper foods which are less than nutritious. there is education ( or lack thereof) in nutrition to be considered. there are so many causative factors. as to heart attacks, i had one and i am not fat, mine was pure job stress, but you are right, it is a contributor.

Agnes · Post by **Agnes** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:04 pm

it is true people are busting at the seams these days. more and more people are out of shape and have no level of energy. they have just given up! see it all the time even in our own family we have the younger generation getting larger with poor eating habits. my kids always worked along with our own meats and veggies they got a good start. it is an epidemic how fat people are now in this country. i believe all the diet trends make people more heavy as they exhaust their immune systems. Yes, there are some BIGGIES out there. can you imagine how they must feel? :-2

Agnes · Post by **Agnes** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:19 pm

you wonder how much goes in has to come out, OMG. :yh_wait

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:57 am

Isn't better to be fat,than skinny and looking sickly:(

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:09 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Isn't better to be fat,than skinny and looking sickly:(

Fat/Obese is OK if one want's to enjoy a shorter life span.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:13 am

How about this? A health teacher that does body fat? A teacher that tells teenage girls "you are obese" when they need to lose 20 pounds? Is that 20 pounds worth turning a child anorexic or bulimic?

Agnes · Post by **Agnes** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 7:33 am

thats not a health teacher to tell young women to slim down? keep them active, running, track, etc. some are going to starve themselves anyway? the chunkers might lose or just grow bigger? could be genetic or just poor eating?

water, water, water, flush out the system. :wah: hydration very important.

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:10 am

Well my definition of obese is "what I see when I look in a mirror". and I haven`t had the coronary yet!!!

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:18 am

john8pies wrote: Well my definition of obese is "what I see when I look in a mirror". and I haven`t had the coronary yet!!!And here's hoping you never do hon x

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:18 am

Poor health teacher would probably get in trouble saying that to a student, she can only teach them what the definition of obese means, and the health results of carrying around too much body fat. :-1

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:33 am

Lon wrote: Fat/Obese is OK if one want's to enjoy a shorter life span.All the skinnys round here died before the fatty's.

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:00 am

This same health teacher also told another girl not only that she is overweight, but to stop taking her steroids for asthma because they would cause her to gain weight and kill her! Her mother couldn't figure why she was having so many asthma attacks until the truth came out. I'm hoping he doesn't have a job next year!

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 9:10 am

Ladied & Gentlemen, just be kind to yourself

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:53 am

Peg wrote: This same health teacher also told another girl not only that she is overweight, but to stop taking her steroids for asthma because they would cause her to gain weight and kill her! Her mother couldn't figure why she was having so many asthma attacks until the truth came out. I'm hoping he doesn't have a job next year!It makes one wonder if any of her students have turned anorexic/bulimic!:mad:

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:57 am

john8pies wrote: Well my definition of obese is "what I see when I look in a mirror". and I haven`t had the coronary yet!!!
I have participated in well over 1,000 autopsies and it's sad to see an organ about the size of one's fist being literally crushed and squeezed by yellow fat globules pressing in on the rib cage. It's sorta like a Volkswagon Beetle trying to tow a 747.

Agnes · Post by **Agnes** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 10:59 am

flopstock wrote: Don't make me come over there and sit on you agnes..

Actually don't know what i weigh..haven't owned a scale in 48 years, not gonna start now. But i figure if I can pinch a yard...time to cut back on the oreos..

but cripes the gym teachers are overweight! remember when you used to exercise in pe? now, i realise its an olympic sport ..but archery for 6 weeks? bowling? DUH!

excuse me, i am 48 too. and i quit oreos awhile ago. archery and bowling don't cut it. you have to jog & that isn't fun either. i'm porking it too. not obese though, are you?

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:00 am

abbey wrote: It makes one wonder if any of her students have turned anorexic/bulimic!:mad:right on Abbey

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:19 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Ladied & Gentlemen, just be kind to yourself
Does that mean self indugent and without disipline?

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:30 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Ladies & Gentlemen, just be kind to yourselfMmm

think i might be kind to myself & get a big bar of chocolate.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:32 am

abbey wrote: Mmm

think i might be kind to myself & get a big bar of chocolate.Make sure its Cadbury's:guitarist

alobar51 · Post by **alobar51** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:08 pm

Lon wrote: I have read about it in the Press and magazines, but this week is the first time I have really paid attention. Having gone to two large public events, I really started noticing how many OBESE, I mean HUGE, HIPPOHERCULEAN people there are in our society. What the hell has happened? I see 35 and 40 year olds about two steps away from a Massive Coronary, and kids for crying out loud that are total blimps. Unless there is a glandular problem or some other physiological cause of this huge amount of bulk there is no excuse for it. Is it a death wish?

No. it's not a death wish. CDC stats state that 2/3 of all Americans are clinically obese. This is our reality.

The question is, why?

Our fuel mix began to change at the end of the last ice age. We began farming in earnest at about that time, roughly 8-10,000 years ago. We went from a diet of fibrous plants, nuts, seeds, eggs, small animals, leftover mastodon, to a diet of mainly grain.

In other words, we went from proteins, fats and fibers to starches. This threw 2 hormones out of balance, glucagon and insulin. Without boring you with a lot of biochemistry, this causes weight gain.

Now, enter the 20th century. In man's eternal quest to feed our ever increasing numbers, we come up with ways of preventing spoilage. We encase our wheat in gluten and hydrogenate our fats. Not good. Gluten is indigestible. Wall paper paste is made of gluten. Picture yourself wallpapering your intestines shut with every slice of supposedly healthy whole wheat bread, or serving of pasta, or high fiber cereal.

A diet based on grain is going to produce those conditions that you observe in the majority. And those who don't gain weight aren't getting off scot free, either. Their arteries are hardening just like everybody elses.

Hydrogenating fats is changing the shape of the molecule from curved to straight, which makes it sort of unrecognizable to our cells. This is done to make what would be a liquid at room temp. into a solid. It enters the cell like any other fat cell, but, because of the way it enters, it prevents it from breathing, which causes something called anoxia, which is a fancy way of saying it suffocates it.

Weight gain is the symptom. The problem is the disorders that follow; heart disease, diabetes, elevated blood pressure/strokes, digestive disorders, asthma/allergies, depression, joint problems.

Approx. 80% of drug co. profits come from the sale of drugs to control the symptoms of these chronic conditions. These drugs do not cure, but merely suppress symptoms. All of these symptoms are, at their core, inflammatory conditions, which start in the intestines, and have as one of their root causes, gluten and hydrogenated fat.

Eliminating gluten and hydrogenated fat from our diet would do more to solve the current health care crisis than anything.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:43 pm

Alobar51:

:yh_clap :yh_clap

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:02 pm

I bet those Skinny Mi Links cannot enjoy an Ice Cream:p

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:03 pm

Question for you all. Years ago, my husband stopped smoking for 6 months. In those 6 months, he gained 105#. Which to you feel was worse for him? Smoking or being way overweight? He says weight, I say smoking.

Here is something I also wonder. How many of these people that say it is so hard on your body to be overweight are smokers and/or drinkers?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:07 pm

I'm afraid this post is a 'textbook' example of why people should not take at face value what any random person on the internet tells them are the 'facts'.

i'd recommend people do a little googling for themselves before trusting any one source.

alobar51 wrote:

In other words, we went from proteins, fats and fibers to starches. This threw 2 hormones out of balance, glucagon and insulin. Without boring you with a lot of biochemistry, this causes weight gain.

Now, enter the 20th century. In man's eternal quest to feed our ever increasing numbers, we come up with ways of preventing spoilage. We encase our wheat in gluten and hydrogenate our fats. Not good. Gluten is indigestible. Wall paper paste is made of gluten. Picture yourself wallpapering your intestines shut with every slice of supposedly healthy whole wheat bread, or serving of pasta, or high fiber cereal.

absolute nonsense. we do not 'encase' our wheat in gluten. gluten is a PROTEIN, found IN wheat, barley, and rye for example. *80%* of the protein in wheat is gluten protein. it is not an additive as implied above. Gluten is most emphatically NOT "indigestible". it is highly digestible. Some people - not all people - have either allergies associated with gluten, or in the hereditary disease celiac sprue, an inability to digest gluten. for everyone else, it's just fine to eat gluten. suggesting that, because wall paper paste contains gluten that one is 'wallpapering' one's intestines shut is a delightful fiction, but a fiction nonetheless. i suppose that - because people can drown in water, we are therefore 'drowning our intestines every time we drink water'? sheesh.

A diet based on grain is going to produce those conditions that you observe in the majority.
another completely unsupported, made-up 'fact'. the majority of people can digest wheat protein just fine, they are not wallpapering their intestines. a minority of people have gluten allergies or celiac sprue. last i checked, a minority is not a majority.

Hydrogenating fats is changing the shape of the molecule from curved to straight, which makes it sort of unrecognizable to our cells.
false. hydrogenation adds hydrogen molecules indeed, but it has nothing at all to do with changing them from 'curved to straight', and does not render them 'unrecognizable' to our cells. these metaphors are dangerous, frankly.

This is done to make what would be a liquid at room temp. into a solid. It enters the cell like any other fat cell, but, because of the way it enters, it prevents it from breathing, which causes something called anoxia, which is a fancy way of saying it suffocates it.
hydrogenation does indeed make liquid oils either solid, or 'thicker' at room temperature. however, the remainder of the above has no basis in reality. perhaps there's some confusion regarding the free radical oxidation potential of trans fats, but that has nothing to do with anoxia at the cellular level.

Approx. 80% of drug co. profits come from the sale of drugs to control the symptoms of these chronic conditions. These drugs do not cure, but merely suppress symptoms. All of these symptoms are, at their core, inflammatory conditions, which start in the intestines, and have as one of their root causes, gluten and hydrogenated fat.

Eliminating gluten and hydrogenated fat from our diet would do more to solve the current health care crisis than anything.
you're entitled to your opinion, certainly. my opinion is that eliminating processed sugar, alone, would do more for alleviating diabetes, obesity, and a host of other malladies than anything else. gluten is protein, and doesn't contribute to diabetes. most proteins don't contribute to obesity. sugars do.

Tan · Post by **Tan** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:24 pm

I couldn't stop giggling at the post title. Sorry, no response. hee..hee..

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:24 pm

Re: Anastrophe's post... hmmm...

Re: my earlier post: OOPS!!

weeder · Post by **weeder** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:58 am

Food and or an interest in eating takes the place of other interests. Instead of eating for fuel.. people eat for enjoyment. Much of our socialization revolves around food also. EX lets meet for lunch, go out for dinner etc.......

alobar51 · Post by **alobar51** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:42 pm

anastrophe wrote: I'm afraid this post is a 'textbook' example of why people should not take at face value what any random person on the internet tells them are the 'facts'.

i'd recommend people do a little googling for themselves before trusting any one source.

absolute nonsense. we do not 'encase' our wheat in gluten. gluten is a PROTEIN, found IN wheat, barley, and rye for example. *80%* of the protein in wheat is gluten protein. it is not an additive as implied above. Gluten is most emphatically NOT "indigestible". it is highly digestible. Some people - not all people - have either allergies associated with gluten, or in the hereditary disease celiac sprue, an inability to digest gluten. for everyone else, it's just fine to eat gluten. suggesting that, because wall paper paste contains gluten that one is 'wallpapering' one's intestines shut is a delightful fiction, but a fiction nonetheless. i suppose that - because people can drown in water, we are therefore 'drowning our intestines every time we drink water'? sheesh.

Gluten is a protein and it is highly indigestible. It is supposed to be so that bacteria will not get thru to the germ and spoil it. Unfortunately, intestinal bacteria play an important role in digestion, and they can't break thru it, either. So it partially digests, and ferments in the intestines, and yes, we do glue them shut over time, causing malabsorption of nutrients, and the inflammatory response that is at the heart of most modern health problems. Instead of googling superficial nonsense, try reading Eades or Cordain, the medical anthropologists who've forgotten more about this than the food industry propagandists that appear at the top of most google searches.

another completely unsupported, made-up 'fact'. the majority of people can digest wheat protein just fine, they are not wallpapering their intestines. a minority of people have gluten allergies or celiac sprue. last i checked, a minority is not a majority.

Not made up at all. Haas and Haas published in the New England Journal of Med. in 1950.

false. hydrogenation adds hydrogen molecules indeed, but it has nothing at all to do with changing them from 'curved to straight', and does not render them 'unrecognizable' to our cells. these metaphors are dangerous, frankly.

"To complete the discussion of fats...,one needs to be familiar with the terms cis isomer, and trans isomer...The cis form is the biologically active form of fatty acids, and is organized in a curved structure. The trans is the biologically inactive form, and is organized in a straight structure. The cis form can be processed to form biologically active fatty acids and prostaglandins. The trans form cannot be and, essentially clogs the metabolic pathways...Trans fats partially block the respiration function of the cell membrane."

Concuious Eating, Gabriel Cousens, MD. pp448-449

hydrogenation does indeed make liquid oils either solid, or 'thicker' at room temperature. however, the remainder of the above has no basis in reality. perhaps there's some confusion regarding the free radical oxidation potential of trans fats, but that has nothing to do with anoxia at the cellular level.

See above

you're entitled to your opinion, certainly. my opinion is that eliminating processed sugar, alone, would do more for alleviating diabetes, obesity, and a host of other malladies than anything else. gluten is protein, and doesn't contribute to diabetes. most proteins don't contribute to obesity. sugars do.

Not my opinion. Well documented. Do your homework. Gluten is indigestible protein, by design. It's one of the most widely used preservatives out there. When you preserve food, you make it less digestible.

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:12 pm

And let us not forget.... modern conveniences? All those things that make our lives slowly drift towards sitting on our fat bums doing nothing but hitting keys with our fat fingers, on a key board or remote control. We simply get up to press buttons to run our dishwashers, washers and dryers. We use our fat fingers to dial telephones to order in just about anything we wish from the grocery and liquor stores. We drive our fat selves to and from the corner store because we have a car. Heck we don't even had to leave our car to do any banking.

Diet, education about diet, exercise and education about exerceise those are our downfalls.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:44 pm

alobar51 wrote: Not my opinion. Well documented. Do your homework. Gluten is indigestible protein, by design. It's one of the most widely used preservatives out there. ahem. when you post unsupported claims, the burden of proof rest on *your* shoulders, not mine. claiming that gluten is "indigestible protein" is false, and reckless.

that said, you seem to believe that simply repeating an utter falsehood makes it true.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/D ... 17w203.pdf

that's a list of foods in order of protein content. for protein in a food to be considered a nutrient, it must be digestible. indigestible proteins are not listed.

of course, the source is the evil government puppet agency the USDA. so i guess we'll have to take it with a grain of salt.

When you preserve food, you make it less digestible.
another wildly irresponsible claim.

so, ham is less digestible than a porkchop? a half an apple sprinkled with vitamin C powder to keep it from turning brown is less digestible than the brown apple? canned peas are less digestible than loose peas? bread kept in the bag is less digestible than the moldy bread on the counter?

if your claim is true, then i presume you do not own a refrigerator?

minks · Post by **minks** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:05 pm

and don't it feel good to do the walk or stairs etc.

We can't blame our fatness on diet only.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Mon Jun 20, 2005 3:25 pm

A little Fat on the face does wonders for the skin. I hate to see those Skinny Mi Links looking so pale that they need extra make overs

alobar51 · Post by **alobar51** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:55 pm

anastrophe wrote: ahem. when you post unsupported claims, the burden of proof rest on *your* shoulders, not mine. claiming that gluten is "indigestible protein" is false, and reckless.

I posted the reference. Read Gottschalk

that's a list of foods in order of protein content. for protein in a food to be considered a nutrient, it must be digestible. indigestible proteins are not listed.

Wanna bet?

of course, the source is the evil government puppet agency the USDA. so i guess we'll have to take it with a grain of salt.

Which is manned by employees of the food industry, whose main product is...a drumroll, please...high gluten wheat. Conflict of interest, anyone?

.so, ham is less digestible than a porkchop?

As a matter of fact, yes.

do not own a refrigerator?

While refrigerated food loses it's enzyme content rather quickly, there are certain concessions to practicality. lol

Gluten is the casing around the germ of the wheat. it is there to prevent bacteria from eating the germ, so that the wheat won't spoil in the grain silo, or the grocers shelf. Bacteria can't break thru that armor coating.

Now, a key component of our digestive system is intestinal bacteria, lactobacilus, bifidus, etc. It should stand to reason that if their cousins on the outside can't break this stuff down, there's a pretty fair chance they won't be able to, either.

what does happen is that the partially digest it, causing it to ferment. This results in an inflammatory response.

Read Breaking the Vicious Cycle, by Elaine Gottschalk. That's your first assignment.

By your own admisson, you're getting your information from USDA propaganda.

I teach this stuff. Been in private practice for over 10 years. Believe it or not, I know more about it than you. If you dropped the attitude, you might just pick up a point or two.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:50 pm

alobar51 wrote: While refrigerated food loses it's enzyme content rather quickly, there are certain concessions to practicality. lol

Gluten is the casing around the germ of the wheat. it is there to prevent bacteria from eating the germ, so that the wheat won't spoil in the grain silo, or the grocers shelf. Bacteria can't break thru that armor coating. you're making it sound like it's an additive. 'it's there so it won't spoil in the silo or on the grocer's shelf'. no, it's there because it is what wheat is made out of. it is not an added 'armor coating', it is a part of the seed.

Now, a key component of our digestive system is intestinal bacteria, lactobacilus, bifidus, etc. It should stand to reason that if their cousins on the outside can't break this stuff down, there's a pretty fair chance they won't be able to, either. apparently you are unfamiliar with a particular digestive organ we humans have: a stomach. you're aware that the stomach breaks down the protein, are you not? the bacteria are a tertiary digestive component. the protein is *already broken down* before the bacteria ever see it. furthermore, there are few billion different types of bacteria in the world. there are plenty of bacteria on the 'outside' that can break through the protein layer. what 'stands to reason' is not 'what is a fact'. your reasoning is faulty.

what does happen is that the partially digest it, causing it to ferment. This results in an inflammatory response. IN SOME PEOPLE for crying out loud. we do not all have celiac sprue. we are not all allergic to gluten. suggesting that is irresponsible. suggesting that gluten is "indigestible" is irresponsible.

Read Breaking the Vicious Cycle, by Elaine Gottschalk. That's your first assignment. i may read it sometime. you're not my instructor, so i won't be taking 'assignment's from you, thanks. i only ask that someone who poses as an educator be educated. gluten is not indigestible. fact. period. it isn't the world's most assimilable protein, granted. it's lacking in lysine. in a normal balanced diet, that's not an issue.

By your own admisson, you're getting your information from USDA propaganda. mmmm. thanks for making clear your mentality on these matters.

I teach this stuff. Been in private practice for over 10 years. Believe it or not, I know more about it than you. If you dropped the attitude, you might just pick up a point or two.you teach, and you're in private practice. great! while i'm not generally impressed by lists of credentials, i'd be delighted to hear what yours are.

oh, and for the record, no, you do not know more about it than i do. anyone who claims with a straight face that wheat protein is indigestible has no credibility in the matter.

i have no credentials, i'll add. besides a functioning brain and the ability to reason. and no, reasoning is not "outside bacteria can't get in, so there's a fair chance inside bacteria can't get in either'.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:56 pm

i will add that i acknowledge that celiac sprue is a very serious disease, albeit one that can be managed by eliminating glutens from the diet (it's not actually glutens themselves that are the problem, but i'll spare the biochemistry lesson). as well, wheat allergies do exist, and while not rare, neither are they common.

most people have no cause for concern about eating wheat or other gluten containing foods, however.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:49 pm

i shouldn't do this, but heck, it's awfully quiet around here....

..........i wonder if she's a natural blonde?

Attached files

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:04 am

[QUOTE=lady cop]i shouldn't do this, but heck, it's awfully quiet around here....

..........i wonder if she's a natural blonde? [/QUOTE:D What a hoot

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sat Jun 25, 2005 4:05 am

lady cop wrote: i shouldn't do this, but heck, it's awfully quiet around here....

..........i wonder if she's a natural blonde? But I bet she is game for a laugh:D

Tan · Post by **Tan** » Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:32 pm

Thats frigin funny. I bought a friend a calender with similar looking ladies in it a while ago.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:31 am

I actually had DR orders to gain weight once. But that was only because I insisted on getting a body fat analisis done. Wrestling coach wanted me to go down a weight class and being a growing boy who was skinnyer then I would have liked insisted on following the rules of getting a dr okay.

Prior to me insisting on the body fat analyis(sp?) the dr would have just signed off on me chaning weight classes.

Lotto

http://tinyurl.com/ac72l

MagicZ4941A