Bryn Mawr;823400 wrote: In other words, I have the right to go next door and beet the sh!t out out of the old dear that live there 'cos I'm stronger than her and don't like her anyway and it furthers my interests to do so?
Any country that does not abide by international law is pariah and any country who invades / starts violence against another is a terrorist nation.
Might does *not* make right!
I am not making a moral judgement, I agree with your point, but nevertheless what I said earlier is also true, and it would be pointless to ignore it because its unpleasant.
Military build-up nears completion
Military build-up nears completion
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Military build-up nears completion
Galbally;823515 wrote: I am not making a moral judgement, I agree with your point, but nevertheless what I said earlier is also true, and it would be pointless to ignore it because its unpleasant.
Oh, don't worry, I realise this. "who will enforce international law if the USA and Israel is abristle with nukes?" - I watch what's being said and I despair.
What hope is there left for the world when its only superpower is turning itself into the largest terrorist in existence, believing might makes right and because no other country can destroy it, that gives them the right to attack who they like whenever they like?
I realise that this is not the majority belief in the US but it is expressed often enough at all levels of society that it is becoming seen as representative. This is reinforced by the actions of the government - not only in its direct use of force or the threats of force but also in it's use of its political clout in support of regimes seen as major abusers of human rights.
Not Yank bashing - just very, very, saddened by what I see.
Oh, don't worry, I realise this. "who will enforce international law if the USA and Israel is abristle with nukes?" - I watch what's being said and I despair.
What hope is there left for the world when its only superpower is turning itself into the largest terrorist in existence, believing might makes right and because no other country can destroy it, that gives them the right to attack who they like whenever they like?
I realise that this is not the majority belief in the US but it is expressed often enough at all levels of society that it is becoming seen as representative. This is reinforced by the actions of the government - not only in its direct use of force or the threats of force but also in it's use of its political clout in support of regimes seen as major abusers of human rights.
Not Yank bashing - just very, very, saddened by what I see.
Military build-up nears completion
Bryn Mawr;823535 wrote: Oh, don't worry, I realise this. "who will enforce international law if the USA and Israel is abristle with nukes?" - I watch what's being said and I despair.
What hope is there left for the world when its only superpower is turning itself into the largest terrorist in existence, believing might makes right and because no other country can destroy it, that gives them the right to attack who they like whenever they like?
I realise that this is not the majority belief in the US but it is expressed often enough at all levels of society that it is becoming seen as representative. This is reinforced by the actions of the government - not only in its direct use of force or the threats of force but also in it's use of its political clout in support of regimes seen as major abusers of human rights.
Not Yank bashing - just very, very, saddened by what I see.
I can understand why you feel that way, and some of the recent actions and attitudes of the US administration have been depressing, but I wouldn't underestimate the American ability to re-invent itself anew as a better place, though I would also remind you that France, Britain, Russia, India, China, and Pakistan are also bristling with nukes, and there are several other countries who also wish to get in on the action, you won't ever see a British Pm being brought to the hague for war crimes, or a Russian one, no more than a US or an Israeli one. The salient fact though, to my mind about the world, is that its actually quite small, and the model of conflictual nation states battling over dwindling resources as well as belief systems is not really sustainable, also the time of the US being the only voice that matters in the world is already almost over, and in a multi-polar world, it will be much harder for any one region or nation to impose its will on everyone else. People will have to recognize this, that the world contains several different civilizations, and each should have its own defined sphere's of influence and rules, with an agreed set of rules for how they interact with one another. This may end up being a worse situation, or perhaps better, I don't know because I am not a prophet, but assuredly everything will change again, as it always does.
What hope is there left for the world when its only superpower is turning itself into the largest terrorist in existence, believing might makes right and because no other country can destroy it, that gives them the right to attack who they like whenever they like?
I realise that this is not the majority belief in the US but it is expressed often enough at all levels of society that it is becoming seen as representative. This is reinforced by the actions of the government - not only in its direct use of force or the threats of force but also in it's use of its political clout in support of regimes seen as major abusers of human rights.
Not Yank bashing - just very, very, saddened by what I see.
I can understand why you feel that way, and some of the recent actions and attitudes of the US administration have been depressing, but I wouldn't underestimate the American ability to re-invent itself anew as a better place, though I would also remind you that France, Britain, Russia, India, China, and Pakistan are also bristling with nukes, and there are several other countries who also wish to get in on the action, you won't ever see a British Pm being brought to the hague for war crimes, or a Russian one, no more than a US or an Israeli one. The salient fact though, to my mind about the world, is that its actually quite small, and the model of conflictual nation states battling over dwindling resources as well as belief systems is not really sustainable, also the time of the US being the only voice that matters in the world is already almost over, and in a multi-polar world, it will be much harder for any one region or nation to impose its will on everyone else. People will have to recognize this, that the world contains several different civilizations, and each should have its own defined sphere's of influence and rules, with an agreed set of rules for how they interact with one another. This may end up being a worse situation, or perhaps better, I don't know because I am not a prophet, but assuredly everything will change again, as it always does.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Military build-up nears completion
The really sad thing is, this whole go-round started because 'spot' got in a panic over something some nobody Russian claimed. There is a 'fact' for you, spot.
a good many Americans would love to expel the United Nations from the USA, pull back within our borders and let the rest of the world go to hell.
By the way, unless you euro's do SOMETHING, europe will soon be eurabia anyway. Got your prayer rug handy?
a good many Americans would love to expel the United Nations from the USA, pull back within our borders and let the rest of the world go to hell.
By the way, unless you euro's do SOMETHING, europe will soon be eurabia anyway. Got your prayer rug handy?
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Military build-up nears completion
This US administration has no credibility. I'll just watch and wait. Beyond that I have no opinion since the Iranian regime has no credibility in my eyes either: not the only reason, but I understand that since we are "infidel" it is perfectly acceptable to lie to us. Am I wrong about this? :-3
Galbally: Just a small aside on your long post - I feel one of the achievements of the UK since the end of WW2 has been to survive the end of our Empire. Few manage that! (I can't think of any)
Galbally: Just a small aside on your long post - I feel one of the achievements of the UK since the end of WW2 has been to survive the end of our Empire. Few manage that! (I can't think of any)
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Military build-up nears completion
By the way, unless you euro's do SOMETHING, europe will soon be eurabia anyway.
Perhaps if the USA had treated us a little less like a defeated enemy in the Bretton Woods agreements we might have been able to "do something" over the last fifty years or so, rather than just struggle to get back on our feet and repay lend/lease!
Personally I'm pleased that we were so crippled that the US COULD stop us over the Suez crisis - ended any illusions we might have had about the reach of our power and probably instrumental in avoiding our own Vietnam. But it seems a bit hypocritical when you then blame us for a weakness YOU created.
And we are doing something about it. It just doesn't involve bombs - creating internal dialogue. Suppose you think we should ride in with a six gun and start shooting?
Perhaps if the USA had treated us a little less like a defeated enemy in the Bretton Woods agreements we might have been able to "do something" over the last fifty years or so, rather than just struggle to get back on our feet and repay lend/lease!
Personally I'm pleased that we were so crippled that the US COULD stop us over the Suez crisis - ended any illusions we might have had about the reach of our power and probably instrumental in avoiding our own Vietnam. But it seems a bit hypocritical when you then blame us for a weakness YOU created.
And we are doing something about it. It just doesn't involve bombs - creating internal dialogue. Suppose you think we should ride in with a six gun and start shooting?
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Military build-up nears completion
hoppy;823493 wrote: Thank you for that insight into your character. You sound as if your saying it's ok for Israeli's to die, but not Iranians. Judging by the threats uttered by Mahmud Ahmadi-Nejad, he will do all he can to carry this out, either himself or by provoking others to help. I'm sad you feel my people need to be killed.
The death of any Israeli is a tragedy. The end of the apartheid laws of the Israeli state is as important as the end of the Jim Crow laws in the USA or the end of the Pass Laws in South Africa. Apartheid is a disgrace and Israel is based on it, one law for Jews and one for anyone else. Nowhere in what I wrote, just as nowhere in anything I think, do I call for the death of anyone least of all Israelis. I do demand legal justice against the killers though.
It's not okay for anyone to be killed, Israeli or Iranian or American or Palestinian. The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
The death of any Israeli is a tragedy. The end of the apartheid laws of the Israeli state is as important as the end of the Jim Crow laws in the USA or the end of the Pass Laws in South Africa. Apartheid is a disgrace and Israel is based on it, one law for Jews and one for anyone else. Nowhere in what I wrote, just as nowhere in anything I think, do I call for the death of anyone least of all Israelis. I do demand legal justice against the killers though.
It's not okay for anyone to be killed, Israeli or Iranian or American or Palestinian. The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823690 wrote: The death of any Israeli is a tragedy. The end of the apartheid laws of the Israeli state is as important as the end of the Jim Crow laws in the USA or the end of the Pass Laws in South Africa. Apartheid is a disgrace and Israel is based on it, one law for Jews and one for anyone else. Nowhere in what I wrote, just as nowhere in anything I think, do I call for the death of anyone least of all Israelis. I do demand legal justice against the killers though.
It's not okay for anyone to be killed, Israeli or Iranian or American or Palestinian. The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
Harken back to 1948. Who started the shooting? Who refuses to stop? Ask the Brits why they did their best to make sure the Israeli's were unarmed when the Brits pulled out, knowing full well what the surrounding hoards would do. Thank God the Brits disarment plan for Israel failed so miserably.
It's not okay for anyone to be killed, Israeli or Iranian or American or Palestinian. The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
Harken back to 1948. Who started the shooting? Who refuses to stop? Ask the Brits why they did their best to make sure the Israeli's were unarmed when the Brits pulled out, knowing full well what the surrounding hoards would do. Thank God the Brits disarment plan for Israel failed so miserably.
Military build-up nears completion
When you want to ignore current reality you can always fall back on re-fighting history I suppose.
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823697 wrote: When you want to ignore current reality you can always fall back on re-fighting history I suppose.
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
See? You are totally ignoring the Israeli's who "fall like flies" because the Palestinians violate every cease fire and like to target kids and civilians on busses.
Get real. You know you are wrong on this.
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
See? You are totally ignoring the Israeli's who "fall like flies" because the Palestinians violate every cease fire and like to target kids and civilians on busses.
Get real. You know you are wrong on this.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823697 wrote: When you want to ignore current reality you can always fall back on re-fighting history I suppose.
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
If your "facts" show whose doing the killing, then those facts should show whose violating the cease fires too.
The simple facts on the ground show who's killing whom though. Palestinians fall unregarded like flies, thousand after thousand after thousand, and Israelis for the most part applaud as though the dead were cattle.
You're in the wrong thread for this anyway - you should be in http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showt ... hp?t=35045
If your "facts" show whose doing the killing, then those facts should show whose violating the cease fires too.
Military build-up nears completion
Clodhopper;823668 wrote: This US administration has no credibility. I'll just watch and wait. Beyond that I have no opinion since the Iranian regime has no credibility in my eyes either: not the only reason, but I understand that since we are "infidel" it is perfectly acceptable to lie to us. Am I wrong about this? :-3
Galbally: Just a small aside on your long post - I feel one of the achievements of the UK since the end of WW2 has been to survive the end of our Empire. Few manage that! (I can't think of any)
France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
posted by clodhopper
The really sad thing is, this whole go-round started because 'spot' got in a panic over something some nobody Russian claimed. There is a 'fact' for you, spot.
a good many Americans would love to expel the United Nations from the USA, pull back within our borders and let the rest of the world go to hell.
By the way, unless you euro's do SOMETHING, europe will soon be eurabia anyway. Got your prayer rug handy?
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
Throughout the region our country has interests to protect and commitments to honor," Cheney told Navy staff aboard the USS John C. Stennis. "With two carrier strike groups in the Gulf, we're sending clear messages to friends and adversaries alike. We'll keep the sea lanes open. We'll stand with our friends in opposing extremism and strategic threats. We'll disrupt attacks on our own forces. We'll continue bringing relief to those who suffer and delivering justice to the enemies of freedom."
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
Galbally: Just a small aside on your long post - I feel one of the achievements of the UK since the end of WW2 has been to survive the end of our Empire. Few manage that! (I can't think of any)
France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
posted by clodhopper
The really sad thing is, this whole go-round started because 'spot' got in a panic over something some nobody Russian claimed. There is a 'fact' for you, spot.
a good many Americans would love to expel the United Nations from the USA, pull back within our borders and let the rest of the world go to hell.
By the way, unless you euro's do SOMETHING, europe will soon be eurabia anyway. Got your prayer rug handy?
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
Throughout the region our country has interests to protect and commitments to honor," Cheney told Navy staff aboard the USS John C. Stennis. "With two carrier strike groups in the Gulf, we're sending clear messages to friends and adversaries alike. We'll keep the sea lanes open. We'll stand with our friends in opposing extremism and strategic threats. We'll disrupt attacks on our own forces. We'll continue bringing relief to those who suffer and delivering justice to the enemies of freedom."
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
Military build-up nears completion
gmc;823714 wrote: France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
Here's a little something to chew on. The USA just might have more oil than you know about. Why use ours when we can use the Saudi's or others? Other than oil, what else do some of those countries have? Nada. MAYBE thats part of our world domination plans. LMFAO.
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
Here's a little something to chew on. The USA just might have more oil than you know about. Why use ours when we can use the Saudi's or others? Other than oil, what else do some of those countries have? Nada. MAYBE thats part of our world domination plans. LMFAO.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Military build-up nears completion
France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
Sorry, I wasn't clear - survive without being invaded and or defeated or undergoing civil war or complete societal collapse or radically changing ideology.
Sure they all had empires (china??? what are we defining as an empire here?) but Nazi Germany was crushed, Napoleon defeated and France occupied, Austria finished off in the 1st WW went from autocracy to democracy as did Russia at the end of the Cold War, Persia clobbered by Alexander and collapsed in the succession wars, Ottoman Empire finished of by WW1 and became a democracy etc etc
Britain was a Consitutional Monarchy and still is. That's what I was getting at. We've been very fortunate in this island!
Sorry, I wasn't clear - survive without being invaded and or defeated or undergoing civil war or complete societal collapse or radically changing ideology.
Sure they all had empires (china??? what are we defining as an empire here?) but Nazi Germany was crushed, Napoleon defeated and France occupied, Austria finished off in the 1st WW went from autocracy to democracy as did Russia at the end of the Cold War, Persia clobbered by Alexander and collapsed in the succession wars, Ottoman Empire finished of by WW1 and became a democracy etc etc
Britain was a Consitutional Monarchy and still is. That's what I was getting at. We've been very fortunate in this island!
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Military build-up nears completion
gmc;823714 wrote: France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
The weak always hate the strong. And, we won't invade Saudi for their oil. Supposedly we invaded Iraq for the oil. So, Whose getting it? Another fallacy by the USA haters.I'll wager little, if any, made it to the USA.
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
The weak always hate the strong. And, we won't invade Saudi for their oil. Supposedly we invaded Iraq for the oil. So, Whose getting it? Another fallacy by the USA haters.I'll wager little, if any, made it to the USA.
Military build-up nears completion
hoppy;823704 wrote: See? You are totally ignoring the Israeli's who "fall like flies" because the Palestinians violate every cease fire and like to target kids and civilians on busses.
Get real. You know you are wrong on this.
Just go and compare numbers hoppy. There's a fully-equipped heavy-duty armed force, the IDF, which can do what it likes from where it likes and not lose anyone. There are men throwing rocks (or even home-made non-directed rockets that kill nobody month after month after month they're so trivial) with bullet holes in them. It's called a disproportionate response, it's grotesque. When Israel responds to every attack regardless of the attack's source then anyone at all who wants to keep the pot boiling can dictate the temperature. That's down to Israel's inability to graduate its responses.
Far more relevant, in my opinion, is the daily imposition of movement restrictions within Palestinian areas. That's what's wrecking the quality of life of the Palestinians.
Get real. You know you are wrong on this.
Just go and compare numbers hoppy. There's a fully-equipped heavy-duty armed force, the IDF, which can do what it likes from where it likes and not lose anyone. There are men throwing rocks (or even home-made non-directed rockets that kill nobody month after month after month they're so trivial) with bullet holes in them. It's called a disproportionate response, it's grotesque. When Israel responds to every attack regardless of the attack's source then anyone at all who wants to keep the pot boiling can dictate the temperature. That's down to Israel's inability to graduate its responses.
Far more relevant, in my opinion, is the daily imposition of movement restrictions within Palestinian areas. That's what's wrecking the quality of life of the Palestinians.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823757 wrote: Just go and compare numbers hoppy. There's a fully-equipped heavy-duty armed force, the IDF, which can do what it likes from where it likes and not lose anyone. There are men throwing rocks (or even home-made non-directed rockets that kill nobody month after month after month they're so trivial) with bullet holes in them. It's called a disproportionate response, it's grotesque. When Israel responds to every attack regardless of the attack's source then anyone at all who wants to keep the pot boiling can dictate the temperature. That's down to Israel's inability to graduate its responses.
Far more relevant, in my opinion, is the daily imposition of movement restrictions within Palestinian areas. That's what's wrecking the quality of life of the Palestinians.
And there is your answer dear spot. Convince the rock chuckers to stop pi$$ing off the gun toters. Convince the rock chuckers to honor just ONE cease fire for more than a day or three. Do that, and I'll bet my paycheck life would normalize.
Far more relevant, in my opinion, is the daily imposition of movement restrictions within Palestinian areas. That's what's wrecking the quality of life of the Palestinians.
And there is your answer dear spot. Convince the rock chuckers to stop pi$$ing off the gun toters. Convince the rock chuckers to honor just ONE cease fire for more than a day or three. Do that, and I'll bet my paycheck life would normalize.
Military build-up nears completion
gmc;823714 wrote: France, germany, austria, china, russia, persia (now iran) turkey, Japan, spain, portugal, italy china. There's actually quite a few that don't have empires any more.
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
When the UN was established at the end of WW2, I don't recall a lot of volunteer nations clammoring to host the UN. Who else could afford that headache then?
posted by clodhopper
You insisted on having the UN there in the first place so it's rather ironic to hear you complaining about it.
You're basically in hock to suadi arabia anyway-if they decide to start trading oil in euros you're really stuffed. Your economy is going down the toilet thanks to foreign wars and rampant unregulated capitalism so perhaps the day is not too far in the future when you are left with no choice in the matter. It seems the US is having a serious debate about what you allow your government to do in your name and what checks you can put on it to curb the blind militarism that has become such a feature of your foreign politics. 28 million on food stamps the US is looking more and more like it's in deep **** and digging deeper.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/03/ ... tpop_story
The good news is you all voted for it so you can't blame outsiders. Perhaps it's not attack from outside you should be worried about but those you've elected. If they've ****ed up so much domestically perhaps you shouldn't trust their judgement elsewhere or stop being so gullible.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00572.html
The only country that has actually attacked the US is saudi arabia-the terrorists in 911 were all saudi, Al queda gets all it's funding and ideology from saudi fundamentalists. You are taking out the countries in the region that pose a threat to saudi dominance-first Iraq and then Iran with them out the way and their hands on the oil lifeline basically they must be killing themselves laughing. except the saudi royals can't control the fundamentalist themselves, odds are they won't survive much longer. I dare say sooner or later you will have to invade saudi just to get control of the oilfields.
When the UN was established at the end of WW2, I don't recall a lot of volunteer nations clammoring to host the UN. Who else could afford that headache then?
Military build-up nears completion
hoppy;823806 wrote: And there is your answer dear spot. Convince the rock chuckers to stop pi$$ing off the gun toters. Convince the rock chuckers to honor just ONE cease fire for more than a day or three. Do that, and I'll bet my paycheck life would normalize.
It could not normalize in those circumstances, because Israel's law distinguishes between Jew and non-Jew. Israel is an apartheid regime. The world doesn't tolerate apartheid these days. The laws of Israel have to be brought into line with civilized notions. By all means distinguish on the basis of citizenship, that's allowed. It can't be done on a Jewish test. Changing that is the path to normalization.
It could not normalize in those circumstances, because Israel's law distinguishes between Jew and non-Jew. Israel is an apartheid regime. The world doesn't tolerate apartheid these days. The laws of Israel have to be brought into line with civilized notions. By all means distinguish on the basis of citizenship, that's allowed. It can't be done on a Jewish test. Changing that is the path to normalization.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
so, the response to whether or not the USA should abide by international law is "we don't want the UN here anyway"?
Military build-up nears completion
koan;823875 wrote: so, the response to whether or not the USA should abide by international law is "we don't want the UN here anyway"?
I believe I asked who was going to enforce international law? I well remember the UN bungling in Bosnia.
I believe I asked who was going to enforce international law? I well remember the UN bungling in Bosnia.
Military build-up nears completion
Jester;823890 wrote: Let me rephrase: Might does not necessarily make right, but it can be right.
You only own what you are able to hold on to. History bears this out. It's in the books. look it up.
You only own what you are able to hold on to. History bears this out. It's in the books. look it up.
Military build-up nears completion
Clodhopper;823730 wrote: Sorry, I wasn't clear - survive without being invaded and or defeated or undergoing civil war or complete societal collapse or radically changing ideology.
Sure they all had empires (china??? what are we defining as an empire here?) but Nazi Germany was crushed, Napoleon defeated and France occupied, Austria finished off in the 1st WW went from autocracy to democracy as did Russia at the end of the Cold War, Persia clobbered by Alexander and collapsed in the succession wars, Ottoman Empire finished of by WW1 and became a democracy etc etc
Britain was a Consitutional Monarchy and still is. That's what I was getting at. We've been very fortunate in this island!
Britain may have been a constitutional monarchy but it wasn't until 1918 we had universal male suffrage and not till 1931 (I think it was) did all women get the vote on the same basis as the men. In the 1920's troops and tanks stood ready to be used for fear of a general uprising so I don't think you can claim the UK didn't also undergo societal collapse or idealogical change. Had they actually put armed troops on the streets things might have been very different. Bit off topic though. (the chinese empire lasted until 1912 the last emperor died in 1967)
posted by hoppy
Here's a little something to chew on. The USA just might have more oil than you know about. Why use ours when we can use the Saudi's or others? Other than oil, what else do some of those countries have? Nada. MAYBE thats part of our world domination plans. LMFAO.
I didn't know you had world domination plans. It's always seemed more like it was a small powerful interest group manipulating things to their own advantage and suckering the US people in to going along with it all. sadly we got suckered as well . The middle east has always been about oil ever since the british invented the oil industry. That and trade with the east.
What is the logic in driving up the price of oil then? is it to make it economic to start drilling for your secret oil supplies?
And there is your answer dear spot. Convince the rock chuckers to stop pi$$ing off the gun toters. Convince the rock chuckers to honor just ONE cease fire for more than a day or three. Do that, and I'll bet my paycheck life would normalize.
They tried that didn't they? even had elections and elected people to represent them. Silly people didn't choose the right ones though did they. Still it's a good excuse not to talk to them.
Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian. What would you do?
posted by hoppy
When the UN was established at the end of WW2, I don't recall a lot of volunteer nations clammoring to host the UN. Who else could afford that headache then?
very true. Everybody else was bankrupt.
Sure they all had empires (china??? what are we defining as an empire here?) but Nazi Germany was crushed, Napoleon defeated and France occupied, Austria finished off in the 1st WW went from autocracy to democracy as did Russia at the end of the Cold War, Persia clobbered by Alexander and collapsed in the succession wars, Ottoman Empire finished of by WW1 and became a democracy etc etc
Britain was a Consitutional Monarchy and still is. That's what I was getting at. We've been very fortunate in this island!
Britain may have been a constitutional monarchy but it wasn't until 1918 we had universal male suffrage and not till 1931 (I think it was) did all women get the vote on the same basis as the men. In the 1920's troops and tanks stood ready to be used for fear of a general uprising so I don't think you can claim the UK didn't also undergo societal collapse or idealogical change. Had they actually put armed troops on the streets things might have been very different. Bit off topic though. (the chinese empire lasted until 1912 the last emperor died in 1967)
posted by hoppy
Here's a little something to chew on. The USA just might have more oil than you know about. Why use ours when we can use the Saudi's or others? Other than oil, what else do some of those countries have? Nada. MAYBE thats part of our world domination plans. LMFAO.
I didn't know you had world domination plans. It's always seemed more like it was a small powerful interest group manipulating things to their own advantage and suckering the US people in to going along with it all. sadly we got suckered as well . The middle east has always been about oil ever since the british invented the oil industry. That and trade with the east.
What is the logic in driving up the price of oil then? is it to make it economic to start drilling for your secret oil supplies?
And there is your answer dear spot. Convince the rock chuckers to stop pi$$ing off the gun toters. Convince the rock chuckers to honor just ONE cease fire for more than a day or three. Do that, and I'll bet my paycheck life would normalize.
They tried that didn't they? even had elections and elected people to represent them. Silly people didn't choose the right ones though did they. Still it's a good excuse not to talk to them.
Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian. What would you do?
posted by hoppy
When the UN was established at the end of WW2, I don't recall a lot of volunteer nations clammoring to host the UN. Who else could afford that headache then?
very true. Everybody else was bankrupt.
Military build-up nears completion
The USA's a spent force, sadly. It had quite a while acting as if it had moral stature, now it's simply dropped the pretense. All it has left is a lot of money, a lot of weaponry and an increasing debt, none of which qualify as an impressive achievement or desirable epitaph. Who cares about those when what's missing is a desire to act for the good of people as a whole rather than this partisan siding with Americans at the expense of the rest of the world?
It'll fade into obscurity. I'm more than willing to be friendly with the inhabitants but I'll not mourn the death of the system.
It'll fade into obscurity. I'm more than willing to be friendly with the inhabitants but I'll not mourn the death of the system.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
Jester;823903 wrote: Spot, Iran is unstable, the leadership is bent on Jihad, the US for better or worse is thier sworn enemy, 'the great white satan'... when/if Iran is a nuclear player they will use it againdt the US.
You dont let a fanatic aqiire weapons, then wait for him to point them and then attack him.
You destroy his ability to make war, and thus avoid a prolonged contracted engagement where hundreds of thousands if not millions may die.
I hear the propaganda, I disagree with the opinion and note the lack of facts.
I'd feel perfectly comfortable spending time in Iran. Doing the same in the USA would terrify me. The one's a civilized nation and the other's a lawless frontier.
You dont let a fanatic aqiire weapons, then wait for him to point them and then attack him.
You destroy his ability to make war, and thus avoid a prolonged contracted engagement where hundreds of thousands if not millions may die.
I hear the propaganda, I disagree with the opinion and note the lack of facts.
I'd feel perfectly comfortable spending time in Iran. Doing the same in the USA would terrify me. The one's a civilized nation and the other's a lawless frontier.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
Jester;823907 wrote: Well see now, there we go, if Iran has no nukes or nuke program what do they have to fear of a battle group parked off their shores? :-3
The argument for going into Iraq was the same and Iraq had none either.
The argument for going into Iraq was the same and Iraq had none either.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
gmc;823898 wrote: Britain may have been a constitutional monarchy but it wasn't until 1918 we had universal male suffrage and not till 1931 (I think it was) did all women get the vote on the same basis as the men. In the 1920's troops and tanks stood ready to be used for fear of a general uprising so I don't think you can claim the UK didn't also undergo societal collapse or idealogical change. Had they actually put armed troops on the streets things might have been very different. Bit off topic though. (the chinese empire lasted until 1912 the last emperor died in 1967)
posted by hoppy
I didn't know you had world domination plans. It's always seemed more like it was a small powerful interest group manipulating things to their own advantage and suckering the US people in to going along with it all. sadly we got suckered as well . The middle east has always been about oil ever since the british invented the oil industry. That and trade with the east.
What is the logic in driving up the price of oil then? is it to make it economic to start drilling for your secret oil supplies?
They tried that didn't they? even had elections and elected people to represent them. Silly people didn't choose the right ones though did they. Still it's a good excuse not to talk to them.
Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian. What would you do?
posted by hoppy
very true. Everybody else was bankrupt.
Put myself in the place of a Palestinian? If all I had was rocks to chuck as some suggest, I would behave myself, work, raise my kids and goats like I did before all this.
posted by hoppy
I didn't know you had world domination plans. It's always seemed more like it was a small powerful interest group manipulating things to their own advantage and suckering the US people in to going along with it all. sadly we got suckered as well . The middle east has always been about oil ever since the british invented the oil industry. That and trade with the east.
What is the logic in driving up the price of oil then? is it to make it economic to start drilling for your secret oil supplies?
They tried that didn't they? even had elections and elected people to represent them. Silly people didn't choose the right ones though did they. Still it's a good excuse not to talk to them.
Put yourself in the place of a Palestinian. What would you do?
posted by hoppy
very true. Everybody else was bankrupt.
Put myself in the place of a Palestinian? If all I had was rocks to chuck as some suggest, I would behave myself, work, raise my kids and goats like I did before all this.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823910 wrote: I hear the propaganda, I disagree with the opinion and note the lack of facts.
I'd feel perfectly comfortable spending time in Iran. Doing the same in the USA would terrify me. The one's a civilized nation and the other's a lawless frontier.
Then by all means, visit Iran, while it's still there.
I'd feel perfectly comfortable spending time in Iran. Doing the same in the USA would terrify me. The one's a civilized nation and the other's a lawless frontier.
Then by all means, visit Iran, while it's still there.
Military build-up nears completion
Jester;823920 wrote: Iran and Iraq are two entirely different countries. I did nto make an arguement by the way I said if Iran has nothing to hide in terms of nukes then it has nothing to fear.I'm sure it has nothing to fear, my own opinion is that various elements in Iran would like nothing more than a major US attack on Iranian facilities on the scale that Iraq faced.
Iraq had nothing to hide in terms of nukes and it had its economy destroyed, over a million Iraqis are dead more than would have been without the invasion, one in ten Iraqis are displaced, half of those to neighbouring countries. Why should Iran think it's immune from US aggression with that sort of history in the region?
As for fearing, no. Wrong word. The US is being step by step led into wasting its resources and piling up debt in the process by people who have no other way of switching it off.
Iraq had nothing to hide in terms of nukes and it had its economy destroyed, over a million Iraqis are dead more than would have been without the invasion, one in ten Iraqis are displaced, half of those to neighbouring countries. Why should Iran think it's immune from US aggression with that sort of history in the region?
As for fearing, no. Wrong word. The US is being step by step led into wasting its resources and piling up debt in the process by people who have no other way of switching it off.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
Clodhopper
- Posts: 5115
- Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:11 pm
Military build-up nears completion
Cynically, I would say if you've nothing to hide no-one will believe you and you're best off inventing something small to admit to.
The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Lone voice: "I'm not."
Military build-up nears completion
Jester;823933 wrote: Its a Jewish state, if your not Jewish go live somewhere else.Now go and check a dictionary on what apartheid means. South Africa was White Man's country until 1990, the blacks had to live in Bantustans from where they could still work in the mines but not vote in the elections. Very like Gaza in fact. That allowed the whites to claim they were in the majority. South Africa had laws on who could own land, who could and couldn't live in different places - all laws that exist today in Israel. In South Africa you had to be certified white to qualify, in Israel you have to be certified Jewish.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823971 wrote: Now go and check a dictionary on what apartheid means. South Africa was White Man's country until 1990, the blacks had to live in Bantustans from where they could still work in the mines but not vote in the elections. Very like Gaza in fact. That allowed the whites to claim they were in the majority. South Africa had laws on who could own land, who could and couldn't live in different places - all laws that exist today in Israel. In South Africa you had to be certified white to qualify, in Israel you have to be certified Jewish.
Again,
South Africa: British
Palestine: British Mandate Territory
Pakistan: British
Afganistan: You had a good go at that as well
The US: The former 13 British colonies
Iraq: British Mandate Territory
Iran: Same
Why is it that your sense of blame for the world only goes as far as the US all the time? South Africa was a British possesion for many years, indeed you killed plenty of Africaaners to make sure it was, and made sure that the blacks were kept down as well, then you lectured the white south africans for being racists when their country was once part of an actual Empire run on the basis of the "White Man's Burden" and the rule over "lesser breeds without the law".
Palestine and what happened there was a direct responsibility of the British Empire, which basically ignored what was happening and allowed the Jews to found the State of Israel and then recognized it as well, because of what happened to the Jews of Europe during the war, 6 milion of them butched by Europeans (and we, the Christian Europeans who plumbed the depths of human depravity in the 20th century, putting children into gas chambers and bombing civilian cities till the air caught fire, now seek to lecture the Jews once more on human rights, what a laugh) and yet that situation has now become the fault of the US somehow. I love this level of hypocrisy, its quite something.
Again,
South Africa: British
Palestine: British Mandate Territory
Pakistan: British
Afganistan: You had a good go at that as well
The US: The former 13 British colonies
Iraq: British Mandate Territory
Iran: Same
Why is it that your sense of blame for the world only goes as far as the US all the time? South Africa was a British possesion for many years, indeed you killed plenty of Africaaners to make sure it was, and made sure that the blacks were kept down as well, then you lectured the white south africans for being racists when their country was once part of an actual Empire run on the basis of the "White Man's Burden" and the rule over "lesser breeds without the law".
Palestine and what happened there was a direct responsibility of the British Empire, which basically ignored what was happening and allowed the Jews to found the State of Israel and then recognized it as well, because of what happened to the Jews of Europe during the war, 6 milion of them butched by Europeans (and we, the Christian Europeans who plumbed the depths of human depravity in the 20th century, putting children into gas chambers and bombing civilian cities till the air caught fire, now seek to lecture the Jews once more on human rights, what a laugh) and yet that situation has now become the fault of the US somehow. I love this level of hypocrisy, its quite something.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Military build-up nears completion
Galbally, my post didn't mention the US once.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
spot;823987 wrote: Galbally, my post didn't mention the US once.
Sorry, you are right, what I should have said was, why are you are lecturing the Americans on the morality of these situations, most of which have arisen as a direct, and I mean direct, consequence of British Imperial policy in the late 19th and early 20th century.
Sorry, you are right, what I should have said was, why are you are lecturing the Americans on the morality of these situations, most of which have arisen as a direct, and I mean direct, consequence of British Imperial policy in the late 19th and early 20th century.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Military build-up nears completion
Because once the mandates were handed over, once South Africa was ejected from the Commonwealth, the UK had no influence at all on the development of either country. It was hoppy who brought Israel into this thread despite my showing him the right current one where these matters were being discussed.
Are you telling me that of all the countries on the planet, one and only one is morally justified in your eyes in retaining apartheid laws discriminating in favour of a single section of its citizens? Go and pick up the OP of the thread I directed hoppy to and take it apart for me.
Are you telling me that of all the countries on the planet, one and only one is morally justified in your eyes in retaining apartheid laws discriminating in favour of a single section of its citizens? Go and pick up the OP of the thread I directed hoppy to and take it apart for me.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
Just so we don't get into this usual Galbally/Spot debate, I do agree with this statement you made.
As for fearing, no. Wrong word. The US is being step by step led into wasting its resources and piling up debt in the process by people who have no other way of switching it off.
I think that is what is happening, and America is going to pay the price for its bad policies and poor political choices, but I certainly don't think the US is ever going to become an irrelevance, far from it, and I also am not completely pessimistic about the US being able to change the situation it finds itself in externally and internally. The Americans above all other things, are a pragmatic problem-solving people, and they are by no means stupid. They have certainly gotten themselves into a mess in many ways, but they are probably more capable than anyone else of getting themselves out of that mess as well.
As for fearing, no. Wrong word. The US is being step by step led into wasting its resources and piling up debt in the process by people who have no other way of switching it off.
I think that is what is happening, and America is going to pay the price for its bad policies and poor political choices, but I certainly don't think the US is ever going to become an irrelevance, far from it, and I also am not completely pessimistic about the US being able to change the situation it finds itself in externally and internally. The Americans above all other things, are a pragmatic problem-solving people, and they are by no means stupid. They have certainly gotten themselves into a mess in many ways, but they are probably more capable than anyone else of getting themselves out of that mess as well.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Military build-up nears completion
As for looking for an apologist for the Raj I'm the wrong chap for you. I absolutely gloat over the collapse of the British Empire, I chortle at the crumbling of the dreams of the class-ridden natural rulers who suddenly discovered their riches were pipe-dreams. There's not many left and once they're gone there'll be none new arriving from these shores. People are people are people, there are no subhumans.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Military build-up nears completion
Galbally;824003 wrote: They have certainly gotten themselves into a mess in many ways, but they are probably more capable than anyone else of getting themselves out of that mess as well.They're lashing out blindly because for the last hundred years they've been a supremacist nation incapable of coming to terms with the deliberate genocide they committed on their aboriginal population and their inability to even out the inbuilt inequalities left behind from their ownership of slaves. This is one psychotic country we're talking about here.
Manifest destiny, that's what it's all about. American Exceptionalism.
Manifest destiny, that's what it's all about. American Exceptionalism.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.