Do you believe that demons exist?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:29 pm

jester:-6

sigh

May the peace of Christ be with you.

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:32 pm

AussiePam:-6

Good to see you here.

To your post "Amen".

There is real light here. We simply have to grasp it. That does not mean that we have all the answers or know everything. We will never get there in this life.

Shalom

Ted:-6

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:14 pm

theia;771035 wrote: I was surprised today when I read that a writer, whose work I find really inspiring, said that he actually believed in demons, as separate entities, not as part of the personality.

So, I'd welcome other people's views.

Demons as a part of people - I cannot say is true. Demons only belong to the mind. And as far as demons go .....it only applies to you - yourself - .and you. Go figure them when you know your own mind

american parable · Post by **american parable** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:50 pm

View the film: No Country For Old Men. This film parables the existence of demons in American society. Anton Chigurh is clearly cast as Satan's henchman. Yet, there is immense hope represented throughout the film, especially seen vis-a-vis the character Carla Jean. She wears a butterfly necklace that symbolizes the transformation (like a butterfly is tranformed from the coccon) and renewal of her mind in Christ Jesus. Although her physical body is killed by Chigurh, the fact that God covers the killing from our view, points to the fact that her soul lives on.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:01 pm

Hi Theia:-6

Good question.....I am not religious at all but do respect most religions. I just wonder what gives people their true beliefs...how does one really believe in God and afterlife when there is no proof.....

I guess you could call me an agnostic...I try to keep my mind open to new ideas...

But, I take death of loved ones so hard because I know that I'll never see them again and that makes me sooooo sad. I often envy people with faith because you feel that you'll see your loved ones in another life.

Sorry, I digressed there Theia, but I've always wanted to ask that question and do feel comfortable asking this question in your thread:-4

So, no...I don't believe that demons exist , but it's a very interesting thought.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:48 pm

Certainly I believe in demons. In the spirit world exists both good and evil and everything in between, as does in our mortal world.

"As above so below."

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:51 pm

Ted;772452 wrote: "But the 'Christian' way is the right way".

As a Christian pluralist I have to disagree with this statement. Exclusivism has no place within the Christian family or within the family of humanity. This is one of the evils produced by the reformation.

Shalom

Ted:-6

I couldn't agree more. That type of thinking has no place in any religion and is quite offensive.

theia · Post by **theia** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:17 pm

Kathy Ellen;821206 wrote: Hi Theia:-6

Good question.....I am not religious at all but do respect most religions. I just wonder what gives people their true beliefs...how does one really believe in God and afterlife when there is no proof.....

I guess you could call me an agnostic...I try to keep my mind open to new ideas...

But, I take death of loved ones so hard because I know that I'll never see them again and that makes me sooooo sad. I often envy people with faith because you feel that you'll see your loved ones in another life.

Sorry, I digressed there Theia, but I've always wanted to ask that question and do feel comfortable asking this question in your thread:-4

So, no...I don't believe that demons exist , but it's a very interesting thought.

Hiya Kathy :-6

What a difficult question...I'm just hoping someone else will step in an attempt to answer it. For my part, I find that I waver in my belief, constantly, and I suppose this is precisely because I have no proof except when I sort of know in my heart that it's true. And that's not something you can prove, to yourself or others. And then I wonder is it more than a belief, is it a knowing? And maybe one can only feel this knowing when one drops all concepts of what God is, or what we are?

Sorry, Kathy, that's as clear as mud :-5 Ted, where are you :wah:

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 2:01 pm

Kathy:-6

Theia:-6 LOL

An excellent question. I suppose there are many and varied answers. However, I will give you my view.

One of the problems with our modern view is that we have become attuned to scientism as the only way to know things. This is a fallacy. There are many ways in which we learn and know; science, personal experience, intuition, the experience of others, observation, art and "faith" though I do prefer the term "trust".

There are things in this world which science makes no attempt to answer such as questions about why i.e. Why are we here? What is the meaning of life? What have I just experienced? These are things that are not open to science or logic. Some try to tell me what I've experienced but I find that a joke. No one can know what I've experienced but myself.

I have had experiences of the divine. Intuition tells me some of the things that I know. A good term is the experiential reality of the divine. This was the easter experience. It was profound but beyond human language and conceptualization abilities thus the stories are midrash which makes a great deal of use of metaphor. Yes, Jesus was crucified and died. Whatever the Easter experience was it was so profound as to be in reality beyond our understanding. However, it did have a very long term and wide ranging impact on the whole of human history.

Doubt? Of course doubt always crops up. That is part of life. On balance, however, I always return to what I believe and have experienced.

Could I be wrong? Sure I could. I am a human being. In a general sense I don't think that I am but when it comes to speaking of the divine as humans we have no other language than metaphor. We can experience the activities of the divine but we can never, with our mere human language ever grasp the real essence of the divine.

I hope this helps. Ask further if you want clarification or more of a response.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:21 am

Yes, there are demons in the world, they are called people, and there is plenty of evidence of the evil that men do, without recourse to the supernatural in my opinion. Though having said that I have always found that Catholic doctrine of their being an independent thing called "evil" in the world with an existence of its own quite a powerful one, though whether its true or not is another story.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:28 am

It's a convenient invention of the early church. Anyone that disagrees with doctrine must be demon possessed. If you can't find a god reason to condemn someone without trial then invent an evil one and take away the necessity to be just.

theia · Post by **theia** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:53 am

gmc;822702 wrote: It's a convenient invention of the early church. Anyone that disagrees with doctrine must be demon possessed. If you can't find a god reason to condemn someone without trial then invent an evil one and take away the necessity to be just.

I like that :-6

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:17 pm

As a Christian person i believe in the goodness of God and Jesus and all the angels in heaven and in doing so i also believe in the opposite of that, which would be evil, the devil and demons!

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:29 pm

[QUOTE=Ted;822237]Kathy:-6

Theia:-6 LOL

An excellent question. I suppose there are many and varied answers. However,

I will give you my vOne of the problems with our modern view is that we have become attuned to scientism as the only way to know things. This is a fallacy. There are many ways in which we learn and know; science, personal experience, intuition, the experience of others, observation, art and "faith" though I do prefer the term "trust".

There are things in this world which science makes no attempt to answer such as questions about why i.e. Why are we here? What is the meaning of life? What have I just experienced? These are things that are not open to science or logic. Some try to tell me what I've experienced but I find that a joke. No one can know what I've experienced but myself.

I have had experiences of the divine. Intuition tells me some of the things that I know. A good term is the experiential reality of the divine. This was the easter experience. It was profound but beyond human language and conceptualization abilities thus the stories are midrash which makes a great deal of use of metaphor. Yes, Jesus was crucified and died. Whatever the Easter experience was it was so profound as to be in reality beyond our understanding. However, it did have a very long term and wide ranging impact on the whole of human history.

Doubt? Of course doubt always crops up. That is part of life. On balance, however, I always return to what I believe and have experienced.

Could I be wrong? Sure I could. I am a human being. In a general sense I don't think that I am but when it comes to speaking of the divine as humans we have no other language than metaphor. We can experience the activities of the divine but we can never, with our mere human language ever grasp the real essence of the divine.

Hi Ted:-6 Good to see you.

Thank you so much for your post, but it honestly didn't help. I don't discuss politics and religion in the FG because I am ill equippted to discuss issues that I'm not truly versed on or sometimes have no interest in. But, I do feel comfortable discussing this in Theia's thread.

I would like for someone to give me some sort of proof that there is a God and an afterlife in Heaven or Hell. It's often nice to say that our many universes are so wonderful that they had to be created by a supreme being, but where is there proof except for quotations from a holy book that was written by people.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:50 am

We got here somehow, Kathy. That's where I keep coming back to. And the idea that something can come of its own doing, from nothing, is, I think, harder to accept than that there was a First Cause/Primum Mobile/Creator. From there, it gets tricky. When you start to talk about what kind of First Cause/Creator/God.

For me, the first step doesn't need proof. I know I'm here. I exist. I got here somehow. Nothing from Nothing. So something started all this. Big Bang?? Fine. But Big Bang from what?

I don't know if I believe in the devil or demons. But I do believe that evil exists.

:-6

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:02 am

AussiePam;823565 wrote: We got here somehow, Kathy. That's where I keep coming back to. And the idea that something can come of its own doing, from nothing, is, I think, harder to accept than that there was a First Cause/Primum Mobile/Creator. From there, it gets tricky. When you start to talk about what kind of First Cause/Creator/God.

For me, the first step doesn't need proof. I know I'm here. I exist. I got here somehow. Nothing from Nothing. So something started all this. Big Bang?? Fine. But Big Bang from what?

I don't know if I believe in the devil or demons. But I do believe that evil exists.

:-6

i know what you mean, scientists say this all began with the Big Bang, but i believe there was a Creator behind that Big Bang, all of this could not have just happened by accident!

and you're right , there is quite a bit of evil in the world!

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:09 am

Galbally;822487 wrote: Yes, there are demons in the world, they are called people, and there is plenty of evidence of the evil that men do, without recourse to the supernatural in my opinion. Though having said that I have always found that Catholic doctrine of their being an independent thing called "evil" in the world with an existence of its own quite a powerful one, though whether its true or not is another story.How very very true Galbally.