The Entente Amicale

[Galbally]

So President Sarkozy has ushered in a new French vision of Anglo-French relations. He is certainly a big change from the French leaders of the past several decades, (for his taste in women if nothing else). I think his speech in Houses of Parliament was the most important one made by a French Leader on British soil since De Gaulle in the war, and although yes, it was all nice and flattering (which is a nice change from the barbed insults that the Frenchies and the Brits usually engage in), there was quite a bit of serious stuff in there as well.

I tend to agree with the thesis that as the two leading European nations that historically have been in the forefront of pursuing domestic liberty, liberal democracy, and the western view of society in Europe, France and Britain both have a lot to gain from a much closer and slightly more mature relationship with each other. Certainly the French could teach the Brits a few things about cooking, while the British could help the French point their tanks in the right direction during the next war whenever that is. :wah:

I did think it was pretty cool that as French president he acknowledged the efforts made by Britain during the 20th century to help France in her dark times, and he has said similar things to the Americans about their role in saving France in WW II. Now before the anti-French jokes start up, any views from British posters on the possibility of their being a different kind of political relationship between France and Britain? Does that fill you with gallic enthusiasm, or leave you as flat as a parisian crepe?

[Bryn Mawr]

Galbally;817658 wrote: So President Sarkozy has ushered in a new French vision of Anglo-French relations. He is certainly a big change from the French leaders of the past several decades, (for his taste in women if nothing else). I think his speech in Houses of Parliament was the most important one made by a French Leader on British soil since De Gaulle in the war, and although yes, it was all nice and flattering (which is a nice change from the barbed insults that the Frenchies and the Brits usually engage in), there was quite a bit of serious stuff in there as well.

I tend to agree with the thesis that as the two leading European nations that historically have been in the forefront of pursuing domestic liberty, liberal democracy, and the western view of society in Europe, France and Britain both have a lot to gain from a much closer and slightly more mature relationship with each other. Certainly the French could teach the Brits a few things about cooking, while the British could help the French point their tanks in the right direction during the next war whenever that is. :wah:

I did think it was pretty cool that as French president he acknowledged the efforts made by Britain during the 20th century to help France in her dark times, and he has said similar things to the Americans about their role in saving France in WW II. Now before the anti-French jokes start up, any views from British posters on the possibility of their being a different kind of political relationship between France and Britain? Does that fill you with gallic enthusiasm, or leave you as flat as a parisian crepe?


Depends on their attitude to rewriting the CAP.

Whilst French farmers periodically blockade the channel ports everyday relations will be strained but, in general, I think that Anglo-French relationships are on the up and that has to be a good thing.

[Galbally]

Bryn Mawr;817670 wrote: Depends on their attitude to rewriting the CAP.

Whilst French farmers periodically blockade the channel ports everyday relations will be strained but, in general, I think that Anglo-French relationships are on the up and that has to be a good thing.


Yes, the CAP is an important issue alright, I would see that most EU countries see the need for serious reform, it simply costs too much. The increasing global food prices should see a seachange in European agriculture in my opinion, and also the politics of carbon emissions should also facilitate more sustainable local production, without having to resort to protectionism.

[mikeinie]

I was very impresses with his speech as well and generally like the man as a leader. I think that he is good for France and England & France could use a strong relationship

[Galbally]

mikeinie;817673 wrote: I was very impresses with his speech as well and generally like the man as a leader. I think that he is good for France and England & France could use a strong relationship


Agreed Milkennie, how are you getting on anyway, any strange up your way?

[mikeinie]

Nothing too strange, busy looking for a new job as where I work is shutting down like many other places across Ireland.

I Enjoyed the Easter weekend and spent lots of time with my daughters and it is nice to see the sun again with the long evenings creeping in.

What about you, how is the music going?

[Galbally]

mikeinie;817676 wrote: Nothing too strange, busy looking for a new job as where I work is shutting down like many other places across Ireland.

I Enjoyed the Easter weekend and spent lots of time with my daughters and it is nice to see the sun again with the long evenings creeping in.

What about you, how is the music going?


Oh its grand, I am trying to get some money together to record an album of old songs from the locality with some traditional musicians that I know, we'll see how that goes. It is great to see the nice weather coming in again, I work out in the fields quite a bit so its lovely. :-6

[mikeinie]

Have you ever been up to the Seamus Ennis centre in the Naul? (near Balbriggan). I was there a couple of weekends ago and it was really good.

Could be a good place for you and your group to get some exposure, it is run by Fingal Council. You should contact them and try to get a night, particularly if you are playing traditional music. Maybe you could get a cut of the proceeds towards your recording.

http://www.seamusenniscentre.com/events.html

[Galbally]

mikeinie;817680 wrote: Have you ever been up to the Seamus Ennis centre in the Naul? (near Balbriggan). I was there a couple of weekends ago and it was really good.

Could be a good place for you and your group to get some exposure, it is run by Fingal Council. You should contact them and try to get a night, particularly if you are playing traditional music. Maybe you could get a cut of the proceeds towards your recording.

http://www.seamusenniscentre.com/events.html


Merci mon amis, cest tres bien. (I'm just trying to keep with the French theme here) :-6

[AussiePam]

I have yet to read the speech, and watch the French and English versions of the news on this, Galbally, but France and England have always had a special relationship. Merging and demerging in bits over many years. Exchanging languages, maybe shouting their differences at each other to preserve their identities.

President Sarkozy is the shortest, youngest and least French French president ever. And of course he has shocked France by wedding la bella Carla (of whose songs I am a big fan). The French are very private and even proper about the differences between mistresses and First Ladies. I don't think too many first ladies have previously appeared on the altogether on Page 3 of the Sun.

I am looking forward to seeing the Sarkozys in a British royal coach. That has got to be awesome.

And good luck to an entente cordiale between two great countries.

Er... very best wishes for your musical plans too. I still treasure the downloads of those earlier songs of yours.

[Clodhopper]

It used to be said of the English and the French that the political elites actually rather admired eachother but the masses despised eachother with a passion. That may have been true in the past but certainly in regard to some of us it's been breaking down more recently. The case I know of is in relation to Rugby Union and the internet:

When I was a nipper we all supported any Commonwealth country against France as a matter of course - the Commonwealth countries were our friends and relations - of course we supported Australia, New Zealand (and South Africa before and after the sanctions in relation to apartheid) against the nation we've fought more often and longer than any other.

Then the internet happened and we discovered what a good many Australians, New Zealanders and South Africans REALLY thought of us (I'd had a sneak preview in my Year Off) when the chat rooms got going. I don't want to overstate this, but the ones who express an opinion tend to do so...vigorously, and the others don't contradict them. I myself have found people from the Southern Hemisphere on the BBC rugby forum pretending to be Irish and deliberately trying to cause bad feeling between the English and the Irish - this when the English and Irish have only just stopped killing eachother! (Some of the SH folk didn't seem aware that the way they phrase certain ideas is very different from the way the Irish do it and as a graduate in English Literature I'm sensitive to such things.)

It was quite a shock. The abuse still tends to go waaaay beyond sporting matters.

Nowadays my Rugby watching friends tend to support France against the Southern Hemisphere. Chuckle. There are quite a lot of French people working behind bars round here and the delighted surprise on their faces as we sat around watching the game and yelling "Allez les Bleus!" and chatting to eachother in Franglais was an absolutely wonderful. The surprise has worn off a bit but there's always been a lot of admiration for the way the French play the game and there's now much affection for our "best enemies" (as a Frenchman described it to me).

This isn't going to stop the English and the French having big rows about Europe, the CAP, foreign policy in general and the USA in particular, but it has, in my experience, taken the edge off the animosity that used to exist.

Mind you, I'd still say the Ashes (when the English and Glamorgan can remember how to play the game!) is the best sporting event on the planet, shading it over the Six Nations and the Rugby World Cup - a competition France just ran brilliantly.

[Galbally]

AussiePam;817692 wrote: I have yet to read the speech, and watch the French and English versions of the news on this, Galbally, but France and England have always had a special relationship. Merging and demerging in bits over many years. Exchanging languages, maybe shouting their differences at each other to preserve their identities.

President Sarkozy is the shortest, youngest and least French French president ever. And of course he has shocked France by wedding la bella Carla (of whose songs I am a big fan). The French are very private and even proper about the differences between mistresses and First Ladies. I don't think too many first ladies have previously appeared on the altogether on Page 3 of the Sun.

I am looking forward to seeing the Sarkozys in a British royal coach. That has got to be awesome.

And good luck to an entente cordiale between two great countries.

Er... very best wishes for your musical plans too. I still treasure the downloads of those earlier songs of yours.


Yes Sarkozy is quite short, and also quite young, and his wife is a babe, there are no doubts there. Yes, I wonder whether the Queen can speak French, she should really seeing as the aristocracy and the British Monarchy is all based on the Norman conquest. But of course she is actually German with some Scottish Blood because of the glorious revolution and the Union, while Sarkozy is actually Hungarian, so you will have a French speaking hungarian, travelling in the coach with an English speaking German, escorted by Irish guards past crowds of English people, which is all very new Europe isn't it?

Why thank you for your kind comments about the music, how flattering, I will of course be sending money in the post, and also some new songs when they are ready.

[Galbally]

Clodhopper;817747 wrote: It used to be said of the English and the French that the political elites actually rather admired eachother but the masses despised eachother with a passion. That may have been true in the past but certainly in regard to some of us it's been breaking down more recently. The case I know of is in relation to Rugby Union and the internet: When I was a nipper we all supported any Commonwealth country against France as a matter of course - the Commonwealth countries were our friends and relations - of course we supported Australia, New Zealand (and South Africa before and after the sanctions in relation to apartheid) against the nation we've fought more often and longer than any other. Nowadays my Rugby watching friends tend to support France against the Southern Hemisphere. Chuckle. There are quite a lot of French people working behind bars round here and the delighted surprise on their faces as we sat around watching the game and yelling "Allez les Bleus!" and chatting to eachother in Franglais was an absolutely wonderful. The surprise has worn off a bit but there's always been a lot of admiration for the way the French play the game and there's now much affection for our "best enemies" (as a Frenchman described it to me).This isn't going to stop the English and the French having big rows about Europe, the CAP, foreign policy in general and the USA in particular, but it has, in my experience, taken the edge off the animosity that used to exist.

Mind you, I'd still say the Ashes (when the English and Glamorgan can remember how to play the game!) is the best sporting event on the planet, shading it over the Six Nations and the Rugby World Cup - a competition France just ran brilliantly.


I am not sure that all the colonials hate England quite that much, but I dunno really, some probably do, but there are haters everywhere. I'm all for mutual respect and cooperation, except when its argument time, then I revert to my bloody-minded island metality, but its not too often thank god.

I would say in general that sport is one of those things that has the power to unite people in the same way art or music can, but sport is more immeadiate and powerful in the short term. Of course in terms of what the world's greatest sporting event is, obviously its the All Ireland hurling final in Croke Park, but thats another story. :rolleyes:

[AussiePam]

Ex colonials hating England????!!!! What an odd thing to say, Clodhopper. But, as Galbally so wisely puts it, there are haters everywhere. No doubt even in Australia and New Zealand, where as a whole we're pretty laid back, tolerant and world affirming.

[Clodhopper]

Galbally: "Hate" is generally overstating it - though you have to wonder sometimes! My brother - a doctor and at the time rock climber - was in one of the countries in these islands with a friend who spoke the language who explained how the group behind them was discussing how they'd like to knife him because he was English, and I know of families who have moved back to England from a different country in these islands because their kids were being so badly bullied in school. Why? You guessed it: because they were English.

I have noticed that different nations accuse us of different things, and am beginning to suspect that each nation accuses us of the things it secretly dislikes most about itself. I've been to many of these countries and they are in the overwhelming majority good, decent people with the scattering of berks you get anywhere.

I'm not really surprised - it's a consequence of being top nation for a couple of hundred years and there's no doubt that some of us were appallingly arrogant and others just downright appalling. Chuckle. Now we watch the Americans making the exact same mistakes...

[Clodhopper]

Galbally, AussiePam: Um, I never used the word "hate". Please don't be annoyed, but isn't it interesting that you thought I had?

[AussiePam]

I have no English blood in me at all, colonial or otherwise - but have always enjoyed my visits to England, have English friends, an English partner and my son now lives in London. It looks like you're basing your views on a few anecdotes. But nevertheless, I unreservedly offer a "SORRY" on behalf of my fellow Antipodeans. We're getting quite experienced at apologising these days.



Galbers - I just saw some great pics in my local rag. (Still haven't watched the French news but I taped 20 Heures and will do that today and report back on what the French think of the Entente).

For my partial Frenchness, I'm allowed to make a French joke. One or two Americans in FG in threads long gone, cast aspersions at ze cleanliness of ze Froggies. Now, they will be pleased to hear that the Queen of England, possibly in due recognition of this other excolonial unease, has granted M Sarkozy ze Order of ze Bath.

The Duke of Edinburgh, by the way, seemed to keep pretty close to la bella Carla.

:-6

[Clodhopper]

Dear AussiePam, you have nothing to apologise for! It weren't you - but in the same vein, let me apologise for the English. There. :-4

[Galbally]

Clodhopper;818442 wrote: Galbally, AussiePam: Um, I never used the word "hate". Please don't be annoyed, but isn't it interesting that you thought I had?


Oh don't be worrying I'm not annoyed, shure why would I be, though I will be round later to beat you up for being English though. :wah:

[Galbally]

Clodhopper;818440 wrote: Galbally: "Hate" is generally overstating it - though you have to wonder sometimes! My brother - a doctor and at the time rock climber - was in one of the countries in these islands with a friend who spoke the language who explained how the group behind them was discussing how they'd like to knife him because he was English, and I know of families who have moved back to England from a different country in these islands because their kids were being so badly bullied in school. Why? You guessed it: because they were English.

I have noticed that different nations accuse us of different things, and am beginning to suspect that each nation accuses us of the things it secretly dislikes most about itself. I've been to many of these countries and they are in the overwhelming majority good, decent people with the scattering of berks you get anywhere.

I'm not really surprised - it's a consequence of being top nation for a couple of hundred years and there's no doubt that some of us were appallingly arrogant and others just downright appalling. Chuckle. Now we watch the Americans making the exact same mistakes...




Don't worry about it, every country has plenty of wankers in it, so there is no need to anywhere else to encounter people's bull. Its a depressing world sometimes.

[Clodhopper]

Galbally: Fortunately the nice ones outnumber the nasty by a large majority.

Actually, I do have a positive feeling about Anglo-French relations - but you won't see it in the Press generally and the Murdoch Press in particular. They seem determined to keep Britain out of Europe, and I apologise to any French people for anything they may say or have said. It is not a reflection of what many of us think, but many others WILL be affected, or have their prejudices reinforced. It may be one of the most important things about forums like this, that we can get round the press and find out what real people think.

[Galbally]

Clodhopper;818895 wrote: Galbally: Fortunately the nice ones outnumber the nasty by a large majority.

Actually, I do have a positive feeling about Anglo-French relations - but you won't see it in the Press generally and the Murdoch Press in particular. They seem determined to keep Britain out of Europe, and I apologise to any French people for anything they may say or have said. It is not a reflection of what many of us think, but many others WILL be affected, or have their prejudices reinforced. It may be one of the most important things about forums like this, that we can get round the press and find out what real people think.


I know that Clodhopper, I lived in England (in fact I was born in Birmingham, so technically I am a Brummy) and generally I can tell you the English are a decent enough bunch of auld skins, there is this quite strange very reactionary attitude to Europe alright, which although is understandable because of history, its not very constructive for now, which is 63 years after WWII. Also, there's no harm in a bit of good old European banter, its our god-given right to all slag each other off based on our nationalities, as its not acceptable to slag anyone else off anymore (except Americans, who are the new world pariahs, and get slagged off for everything from being too fat, too skinny; too stupid, too smart for their own good; too evil, or too moralistic, well the white ones do anyway). But I agree, that the internet is a fantastic resource when its used by ordinary people just wanting to talk and find out things for themselves, and its quite hard for the big shots to control, which can only be a good thing.