Call me old fashioned - but this is a step in the wrong direction. I believe any Country that has to resort to using women in combat should lose its "civilized society" ranking.
If the very Nation's survival is at stake - then I agree - everyone should be in combat. But this just bolsters my argument. If any Country is found fighting for its survival, it certainly is not considered "civilized" in my book.
--------------------------
By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The Army is negotiating with civilian leaders about eliminating a women-in-combat ban so it can place mixed-sex support companies within warfighting units, starting with a division going to Iraq in January.
Despite the legal prohibition, Army plans already have included such collocation of women-men units in blueprints for a lighter force of 10 active divisions, according to Defense Department sources.
An Army spokesman yesterday, in response to questions from The Washington Times, said the Army is now in discussions with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld's staff to see whether the 10-year-old ban in this one area should be lifted. The ban prohibits the Army from putting women in units that "collocate" with ground combatants.
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20041 ... -1796r.htm
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Female soldiers eyed for combat
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Tombstone wrote: Call me old fashioned - but this is a step in the wrong direction. I believe any Country that has to resort to using women in combat should lose its "civilized society" ranking.
If the very Nation's survival is at stake - then I agree - everyone should be in combat. But this just bolsters my argument. If any Country is found fighting for its survival, it certainly is not considered "civilized" in my book.
.........................
I agree with the statement in first para.
I find it interesting - 'If any Country is found fighting for its survival, it certainly is not considered "civilized" in my book'. I think any country fighting for any reason should not be considered civilized.
As far as using women in combat, I wonder if this statement covers all situations. If fighting for survival is one's own making then I think it is OK. But if survival has become a necessity for reasons bevond one's control then everybody has to fight for it, men or women. But again, using women in cambat does not somehow fit in my thinking. I find it strange.
If the very Nation's survival is at stake - then I agree - everyone should be in combat. But this just bolsters my argument. If any Country is found fighting for its survival, it certainly is not considered "civilized" in my book.
.........................
I agree with the statement in first para.
I find it interesting - 'If any Country is found fighting for its survival, it certainly is not considered "civilized" in my book'. I think any country fighting for any reason should not be considered civilized.
As far as using women in combat, I wonder if this statement covers all situations. If fighting for survival is one's own making then I think it is OK. But if survival has become a necessity for reasons bevond one's control then everybody has to fight for it, men or women. But again, using women in cambat does not somehow fit in my thinking. I find it strange.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Any society with the hope of survival has order in it. Order at its very core is evident in the roles men and women play. When that basic order breaks down, the society that allowed it to happen, is doomed (my opinion).
Women are not inferior to men. They simply have different natural, God-given roles. In their role they are to be protected by men who are in their natural, God-given roles. The human male has been the defender and warrior from the beginning.
Placing men and women in combat together will result in confusion, morale problems, and worst of all evidence that we have finally crossed the line. No longer will it be the man’s role and opportunity to lay his life on the line for the women and children. He will no longer be called upon to demonstrate and lead with true love.
Sad to say but this is a road we have been going down for some time. This is no surprise.
Women are not inferior to men. They simply have different natural, God-given roles. In their role they are to be protected by men who are in their natural, God-given roles. The human male has been the defender and warrior from the beginning.
Placing men and women in combat together will result in confusion, morale problems, and worst of all evidence that we have finally crossed the line. No longer will it be the man’s role and opportunity to lay his life on the line for the women and children. He will no longer be called upon to demonstrate and lead with true love.
Sad to say but this is a road we have been going down for some time. This is no surprise.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
[QUOTE=Clint]Any society with the hope of survival has order in it. Order at its very core is evident in the roles men and women play. When that basic order breaks down, the society that allowed it to happen, is doomed (my opinion).
You are pefectly right. It is the best possible arrangement any society can have. The basic order should never be allowed to brak down.
[QUOTE]Women are not inferior to men. They simply have different natural, God-given roles. In their role they are to be protected by men who are in their natural, God-given roles. The human male has been the defender and warrior from the beginning.{QUOTE]
Cetrtainly women are not inferior to men. To have order in the society, men and women have beem assigned clear roles and responsibilities. As long as they play their assigned roles the society will progress. But the moment they start abandoning their roles and start interferring in others' roles the problem starts.
[QUOTE]Placing men and women in combat together will result in confusion, morale problems, and worst of all evidence that we have finally crossed the line. No longer will it be the man’s role and opportunity to lay his life on the line for the women and children. He will no longer be called upon to demonstrate and lead with true love. Sad to say but this is a road we have been going down for some time. This is no surprise.
I agree with you. The balance in society should not be disturbed.
You are pefectly right. It is the best possible arrangement any society can have. The basic order should never be allowed to brak down.
[QUOTE]Women are not inferior to men. They simply have different natural, God-given roles. In their role they are to be protected by men who are in their natural, God-given roles. The human male has been the defender and warrior from the beginning.{QUOTE]
Cetrtainly women are not inferior to men. To have order in the society, men and women have beem assigned clear roles and responsibilities. As long as they play their assigned roles the society will progress. But the moment they start abandoning their roles and start interferring in others' roles the problem starts.
[QUOTE]Placing men and women in combat together will result in confusion, morale problems, and worst of all evidence that we have finally crossed the line. No longer will it be the man’s role and opportunity to lay his life on the line for the women and children. He will no longer be called upon to demonstrate and lead with true love. Sad to say but this is a road we have been going down for some time. This is no surprise.
I agree with you. The balance in society should not be disturbed.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
“Balance†is the key. Those who seek power try to keep everyone but themselves off balance. They don’t understand that power grows by giving it away and that those you give it to need to be on balance before it can grow. Our society is being destroyed by those who are constantly pushing people out of their natural roles and off balance.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Angiepangie wrote: Not all women feel that their natural state is to be in a traditionally female role.
I was beginning to wonder if the world had changed and I didn’t know about it. Your response is the one I expected.
I also know of women like you describe. They have existed throughout history and have stood out for their contributions. They are however, the exception, not the norm. When we make public policy, it must be made recognizing the need for that policy to reinforce behavior that strengthens society.
What I see in the military today is very sad. I don’t see the exceptions you speak of going off to war. What I am seeing are young wives and mothers leaving their families behind to fill a billet that could have been filled by a man. Children are growing up without the love and care of their mother. It is bad enough when the father has to go to war but when a child can’t even expect its mother to be there in the early years, when they need her most, we have gone over the line.
I was beginning to wonder if the world had changed and I didn’t know about it. Your response is the one I expected.
I also know of women like you describe. They have existed throughout history and have stood out for their contributions. They are however, the exception, not the norm. When we make public policy, it must be made recognizing the need for that policy to reinforce behavior that strengthens society.
What I see in the military today is very sad. I don’t see the exceptions you speak of going off to war. What I am seeing are young wives and mothers leaving their families behind to fill a billet that could have been filled by a man. Children are growing up without the love and care of their mother. It is bad enough when the father has to go to war but when a child can’t even expect its mother to be there in the early years, when they need her most, we have gone over the line.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
I didn’t say women are not equal to men. I am saying that equality doesn’t mean everybody has the same role in life. The roles could have been reversed but they weren’t. We can begin the process of reversing the roles but at what cost? This is the argument that has taken us to the point that we are seeing the family break down. If families (the microcosms of society) break down so will the society. Order is essential in the survival of anything. When we sacrifice order for a false sense of equality for a few, we are on dangerous ground.
What we are really talking about is selfishness. “I want it my way and the cost to everyone else doesn’t matterâ€. I find this argument is usually put forth by people who feel rather than think.
Sorry to be so direct but this subject is just too important.
What we are really talking about is selfishness. “I want it my way and the cost to everyone else doesn’t matterâ€. I find this argument is usually put forth by people who feel rather than think.
Sorry to be so direct but this subject is just too important.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Bill Sikes
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
I can't see a problem with females in fighting roles - as long as they are equal, and not more or less equal - however, I can see a big problem in "mixed sex"
units, which I would not think acceptable.
units, which I would not think acceptable.
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
[QUOTE=Clint.....power grows by giving it away ...........
What a beautiful thing to say - power grows by giving it away. If only power brokers understand this, the world will become a beautiful place to live.
I have always thought that Love and knowledge increase if you share them with others. Today I have learnt that power also grows if one shares it with others. Thanks Clint.
What a beautiful thing to say - power grows by giving it away. If only power brokers understand this, the world will become a beautiful place to live.
I have always thought that Love and knowledge increase if you share them with others. Today I have learnt that power also grows if one shares it with others. Thanks Clint.
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Angiepangie wrote: Not all women feel that their natural state is to be in a traditionally female role. Not every woman for example wishes to be a mother. I know a few who would be horrified to find that they were responsible for a small human being. It's just not in their make-up, whatever society dictates.
These women haven't been forced into the military. It's their chosen career. If they want to be combat soldiers their sex should not be an issue. I think we need to respect their choice and allow them to go into battle. It's what they have been trained for after all.
You are right, not all women feel that way. It is a free world. But should not they think that motherhood is an integral part of womenhood?
These women haven't been forced into the military. It's their chosen career. If they want to be combat soldiers their sex should not be an issue. I think we need to respect their choice and allow them to go into battle. It's what they have been trained for after all.
You are right, not all women feel that way. It is a free world. But should not they think that motherhood is an integral part of womenhood?
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
No Problems with Gals. But where will the Guy's Eyes be? :guitarist :-4
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
capt_buzzard wrote: No Problems with Gals. But where will the Guy's Eyes be? :guitarist :-4
The answer is obvious. But one good thing may come out, they might forget war to love each other.
The answer is obvious. But one good thing may come out, they might forget war to love each other.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Suresh Gupta wrote: The answer is obvious. But one good thing may come out, they might forget war to love each other.
This whole thing will take on a different tone when mothers start coming home in body bags. And stay at home husbands wait for their wife and mother of their children to come home, only to find out she went home with the man she bonded with in battle.
This whole thing will take on a different tone when mothers start coming home in body bags. And stay at home husbands wait for their wife and mother of their children to come home, only to find out she went home with the man she bonded with in battle.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
And some of the Women would let out that pelted up anger on the field thinking about the Rotten Son of a B, that's moving in on Maryanne next door. :-5 
Female soldiers eyed for combat
capt_buzzard wrote: And some of the Women would let out that pelted up anger on the field thinking about the Rotten Son of a B, that's moving in on Maryanne next door. :-5
I almost missed your point but now I think I get it; We should mess up society to the point everyone is mad enough to be winners on the battlefield. Who cares that we wouldn’t know why we were in the battle anymore.
Men used to be motivated in battle because they were protecting thier families back home. Now all we need are women who are willing to fight for their right to fight.
I almost missed your point but now I think I get it; We should mess up society to the point everyone is mad enough to be winners on the battlefield. Who cares that we wouldn’t know why we were in the battle anymore.
Men used to be motivated in battle because they were protecting thier families back home. Now all we need are women who are willing to fight for their right to fight.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
I cannot see many young guys joining up today. They don't have the where-with all- spunk about them like their Father's & Grandfathers had. Too many plastic young one's about today. Most don't even want to do a days work.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
capt_buzzard wrote: I cannot see many young guys joining up today. They don't have the where-with all- spunk about them like their Father's & Grandfathers had. Too many plastic young one's about today. Most don't even want to do a days work.
That is possible but I don’t think so. I work with several young male college graduates who work harder than I do. The other important thing to remember, is that ever faithful male hormone. The most dangerous animal of the face of this planet is a young human male. A lot of them will join just because they may get to fight. I used to be skeptical about the all volunteer military. I now know that there will be plenty who will volunteer and they are sharp and motivated.
That is possible but I don’t think so. I work with several young male college graduates who work harder than I do. The other important thing to remember, is that ever faithful male hormone. The most dangerous animal of the face of this planet is a young human male. A lot of them will join just because they may get to fight. I used to be skeptical about the all volunteer military. I now know that there will be plenty who will volunteer and they are sharp and motivated.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Clint wrote: This whole thing will take on a different tone when mothers start coming home in body bags. And stay at home husbands wait for their wife and mother of their children to come home, only to find out she went home with the man she bonded with in battle.
Yes that risk is there. It all favours rejection of the idea of female soldiers in combat.
Yes that risk is there. It all favours rejection of the idea of female soldiers in combat.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Julie Grace wrote: I was in the United Stateds Army. I am a female. I was in the Army when we had to complete the same requirements as men. I threw gernades at targets, shot an M-16, fired a machine gun qualified for everything. On one particular battalion run, out of 400 men and 100 women there were only five people left, Me and four other men. After the twin towers fell, I had an urge to go back into the military pick up a gun, and fire on command.
One thing stopped me. Since my military days, I gained a college education, created my own business and created a family. I have three wonderful boys. If I had died years ago using my talent fighting for something else, they would not be here. Where is the "Soft Place to Go" if women die? Woman protect and watch over the affairs of their families. What will happen to our species?
What about women that can not have children or decide to make the Military their career. If a woman chooses to use this talent to protect her country you will find them to be the fierce as a lioness. They dont want a man's role, they will protect their country just as they would protect their familly.
I am grateful that I have a family and because of that, I believe my role is to stay with them and watch out for their affairs. I fight for their freedom every day in our own neighborhood helping my children overcome their insecurities with the world they face today.
When I did not have children I protected my Country, after having children, they became my country. I am in charge and responsbile for thier lives. What if our society moved to the point of taking away mothers from this nurturing. Where will the soft place to go be?
In these difficult days, you and all the mothers who take their role as seriously as you do, are my heros. You are heros just like the men who go into battles of war. You are heros on another battlefield and it counts.
One thing stopped me. Since my military days, I gained a college education, created my own business and created a family. I have three wonderful boys. If I had died years ago using my talent fighting for something else, they would not be here. Where is the "Soft Place to Go" if women die? Woman protect and watch over the affairs of their families. What will happen to our species?
What about women that can not have children or decide to make the Military their career. If a woman chooses to use this talent to protect her country you will find them to be the fierce as a lioness. They dont want a man's role, they will protect their country just as they would protect their familly.
I am grateful that I have a family and because of that, I believe my role is to stay with them and watch out for their affairs. I fight for their freedom every day in our own neighborhood helping my children overcome their insecurities with the world they face today.
When I did not have children I protected my Country, after having children, they became my country. I am in charge and responsbile for thier lives. What if our society moved to the point of taking away mothers from this nurturing. Where will the soft place to go be?
In these difficult days, you and all the mothers who take their role as seriously as you do, are my heros. You are heros just like the men who go into battles of war. You are heros on another battlefield and it counts.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
I've no problems with Gal's in the army,or even on the battlefield. Israel has them for years and its no problem. But I could see some friction with young red blooded males taking orders from Sgt Kate Kelly shouting at them.
Female soldiers eyed for combat
Bill Sikes wrote: I can't see a problem with females in fighting roles - as long as they are equal, and not more or less equal - however, I can see a big problem in "mixed sex"
units, which I would not think acceptable.
In Israel’s case it is seen as a matter of survival. They don’t see themselves as having enough people to put together a defense force that could stand up to the huge fight they seem to be facing.
Having Sgt. Kate Kelly giving orders really isn’t the issue as I see it. What I see is a degradation of society that shouldn’t be risked unless the risk of not doing it is greater. We have the ability to put an all male force on the front with reserves to back them up.
units, which I would not think acceptable.
In Israel’s case it is seen as a matter of survival. They don’t see themselves as having enough people to put together a defense force that could stand up to the huge fight they seem to be facing.
Having Sgt. Kate Kelly giving orders really isn’t the issue as I see it. What I see is a degradation of society that shouldn’t be risked unless the risk of not doing it is greater. We have the ability to put an all male force on the front with reserves to back them up.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Bill Sikes
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Clint wrote: In Israel’s case it is seen as a matter of survival. They don’t see themselves as having enough people to put together a defense force that could stand up to the huge fight they seem to be facing.
Having Sgt. Kate Kelly giving orders really isn’t the issue as I see it. What I see is a degradation of society that shouldn’t be risked unless the risk of not doing it is greater. We have the ability to put an all male force on the front with reserves to back them up.
The issue is not Sgt. K. giving orders and male hot-heads not wanting to be ordered about by a female (although an order is an order, and ought to be obeyed, and disobedience must be dealt with in the Forces) but members of
the Forces all going gooey and falling in love with each other, which leads
to a breakdown in military cohesiveness and reliability. It's the same reason
that overt homosexuals have had problems in the Forces, although in that
example the case is rather altered - you can probably see why. There was
an incident on some U.S. battleship a while ago (an explosion in a gun turret),
due to the latter, and problems with men/women/sex/babies on a RN trainer
fairly recently.
Having Sgt. Kate Kelly giving orders really isn’t the issue as I see it. What I see is a degradation of society that shouldn’t be risked unless the risk of not doing it is greater. We have the ability to put an all male force on the front with reserves to back them up.
The issue is not Sgt. K. giving orders and male hot-heads not wanting to be ordered about by a female (although an order is an order, and ought to be obeyed, and disobedience must be dealt with in the Forces) but members of
the Forces all going gooey and falling in love with each other, which leads
to a breakdown in military cohesiveness and reliability. It's the same reason
that overt homosexuals have had problems in the Forces, although in that
example the case is rather altered - you can probably see why. There was
an incident on some U.S. battleship a while ago (an explosion in a gun turret),
due to the latter, and problems with men/women/sex/babies on a RN trainer
fairly recently.
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Suresh Gupta
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Julie Grace wrote: I was in the United States Army. I am a female........When I did not have children I protected my Country, after having children, they became my country. I am in charge and responsbile for thier lives. What if our society moved to the point of taking away mothers from this nurturing. Where will the soft place to go be?
Thanks for your message.
At least I have been talking only in the air guided only by my love, concern and respect for womanhood. But your post gives an account of personal experience. Now the discussion has got rquired credibility. Thanks once again.
Thanks for your message.
At least I have been talking only in the air guided only by my love, concern and respect for womanhood. But your post gives an account of personal experience. Now the discussion has got rquired credibility. Thanks once again.
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Julie Grace wrote: I was in the United Stateds Army. I am a female. I was in the Army when we had to complete the same requirements as men. I threw gernades at targets, shot an M-16, fired a machine gun qualified for everything. On one particular battalion run, out of 400 men and 100 women there were only five people left, Me and four other men. After the twin towers fell, I had an urge to go back into the military pick up a gun, and fire on command.
One thing stopped me. Since my military days, I gained a college education, created my own business and created a family. I have three wonderful boys. If I had died years ago using my talent fighting for something else, they would not be here. Where is the "Soft Place to Go" if women die? Woman protect and watch over the affairs of their families. What will happen to our species?
What about women that can not have children or decide to make the Military their career. If a woman chooses to use this talent to protect her country you will find them to be the fierce as a lioness. They dont want a man's role, they will protect their country just as they would protect their familly.
I am grateful that I have a family and because of that, I believe my role is to stay with them and watch out for their affairs. I fight for their freedom every day in our own neighborhood helping my children overcome their insecurities with the world they face today.
When I did not have children I protected my Country, after having children, they became my country. I am in charge and responsbile for thier lives. What if our society moved to the point of taking away mothers from this nurturing. Where will the soft place to go be?
GOOD GIRL. :-6
One thing stopped me. Since my military days, I gained a college education, created my own business and created a family. I have three wonderful boys. If I had died years ago using my talent fighting for something else, they would not be here. Where is the "Soft Place to Go" if women die? Woman protect and watch over the affairs of their families. What will happen to our species?
What about women that can not have children or decide to make the Military their career. If a woman chooses to use this talent to protect her country you will find them to be the fierce as a lioness. They dont want a man's role, they will protect their country just as they would protect their familly.
I am grateful that I have a family and because of that, I believe my role is to stay with them and watch out for their affairs. I fight for their freedom every day in our own neighborhood helping my children overcome their insecurities with the world they face today.
When I did not have children I protected my Country, after having children, they became my country. I am in charge and responsbile for thier lives. What if our society moved to the point of taking away mothers from this nurturing. Where will the soft place to go be?
GOOD GIRL. :-6
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Clint wrote: This whole thing will take on a different tone when mothers start coming *****in body bags. And stay at *****husbands wait for their wife and mother of their children to come home, only to find out she went *****with the man she bonded with in battle.
NO NO. Not speaking about Mothers. Young unmarried females. :-6
NO NO. Not speaking about Mothers. Young unmarried females. :-6
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capt_buzzard
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Female soldiers eyed for combat
Let us hear it from our new female members?