I was brought up in a catholic family, married in a catholic church and promised to bring my children up as good catholics.
When one of my daughters at the age of seven was due to take her first confession and then first communion. I had made a beautiful little white dress and invited family and friends to the church.
Her school teacher told me only 3 days before the event that my daughter didn't know enough about god to go through with it.
As you can imagine I was very annoyed and went to see the Priest at our church.
To my dismay he agreed with the teacher, and after a long dispute and some argueing he agreed to let her take her first communion only because I had gone to so much trouble with the dress and invites, but not her first confession.
This didn't make sense to me because as you know we catholics usualy go to confession a few days before going to a mass and taking communion.
The arguement with the priest was because my daughter was a little slower than the other children in her class did this mean that her and others like her or worse down syndrome children or others with mental problems etc...etc.... were not good enough to become catholic.
This all happened 20 years ago and up to this day I or my children have not been back to any church.
Love to get peoples views on this.
Girl the church tried to turn away
Girl the church tried to turn away
Here's my view....organized religion has degenerated to a point where is has lost touch with the people it is supposed to be helping.
let's look at the big picture here, you wanted your daughter to experience her religion, to love God, and to practice a tradition.
How old do you have to be to do that?
The church is rapidly losing members because of pettiness and a lack of focus like this. this is a perfect exanple of why I don't go to church anymore. I wanted to worship my God, have fun, and socialize with others of my faith, and maybe even get advice on how my God can make my life better, easier, and more fulfilling....
I don't get any of that at church anymore. Nothing but rote recital and boring, esoteric, non-useful sermons. Bah!
I still pray everyday, but it's just Jesus, God and myself in the room.
let's look at the big picture here, you wanted your daughter to experience her religion, to love God, and to practice a tradition.
How old do you have to be to do that?
The church is rapidly losing members because of pettiness and a lack of focus like this. this is a perfect exanple of why I don't go to church anymore. I wanted to worship my God, have fun, and socialize with others of my faith, and maybe even get advice on how my God can make my life better, easier, and more fulfilling....
I don't get any of that at church anymore. Nothing but rote recital and boring, esoteric, non-useful sermons. Bah!
I still pray everyday, but it's just Jesus, God and myself in the room.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Girl the church tried to turn away
Thanks for sharing that, it is just how I feel, I dont believe in any churches my religion is between me and god.
Girl the church tried to turn away
[QUOTE=TW2005]The thing that turns me away from the church is....
Thanks for your view on this, my children are both grown up now and with changing shools after this episode they didn't learn anymore about religions, so they tend to think the same way as you. Which isnt a bad thing in my opinion, they are both now well educated and stable adults. The one in question is married with a child and you couldn't ask for a better mother, she is not going to teach her child any religion either. She says it was better for her to make her own mind up and she will do the same for her son.
Thanks for your view on this, my children are both grown up now and with changing shools after this episode they didn't learn anymore about religions, so they tend to think the same way as you. Which isnt a bad thing in my opinion, they are both now well educated and stable adults. The one in question is married with a child and you couldn't ask for a better mother, she is not going to teach her child any religion either. She says it was better for her to make her own mind up and she will do the same for her son.
Girl the church tried to turn away
Ex Catholic here too. No regrets. My religion is my belief in me.
Pina your story borders on criminal. How much more callus can the church get. Faith is supposed to be for anyone who believes, and should not be determined by how much others think you know of it.
I am thoroughly disgusted with that concept they tried to thrust upon you.
Pina your story borders on criminal. How much more callus can the church get. Faith is supposed to be for anyone who believes, and should not be determined by how much others think you know of it.
I am thoroughly disgusted with that concept they tried to thrust upon you.
�You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.�
• Mae West
• Mae West
-
nvalleyvee
- Posts: 5191
- Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:57 am
Girl the church tried to turn away
pina wrote: I was brought up in a catholic family, married in a catholic church and promised to bring my children up as good catholics.
When one of my daughters at the age of seven was due to take her first confession and then first communion. I had made a beautiful little white dress and invited family and friends to the church.
Her school teacher told me only 3 days before the event that my daughter didn't know enough about god to go through with it.
As you can imagine I was very annoyed and went to see the Priest at our church.
To my dismay he agreed with the teacher, and after a long dispute and some argueing he agreed to let her take her first communion only because I had gone to so much trouble with the dress and invites, but not her first confession.
This didn't make sense to me because as you know we catholics usualy go to confession a few days before going to a mass and taking communion.
The arguement with the priest was because my daughter was a little slower than the other children in her class did this mean that her and others like her or worse down syndrome children or others with mental problems etc...etc.... were not good enough to become catholic.
This all happened 20 years ago and up to this day I or my children have not been back to any church.
Love to get peoples views on this.
What on this Earth does a child of first holy communion age have to confess - she got mad at Mom because she had to clean her room? I am not Catholic - but it was always my assumption confession was for acting against the 10 Commandments - I cheated on my wife kind of stuff. I got beat every Sunday before church so I'd know what I was in for if I misbehaved - I too have never been back because I didn't think that was what God had in mind.
When one of my daughters at the age of seven was due to take her first confession and then first communion. I had made a beautiful little white dress and invited family and friends to the church.
Her school teacher told me only 3 days before the event that my daughter didn't know enough about god to go through with it.
As you can imagine I was very annoyed and went to see the Priest at our church.
To my dismay he agreed with the teacher, and after a long dispute and some argueing he agreed to let her take her first communion only because I had gone to so much trouble with the dress and invites, but not her first confession.
This didn't make sense to me because as you know we catholics usualy go to confession a few days before going to a mass and taking communion.
The arguement with the priest was because my daughter was a little slower than the other children in her class did this mean that her and others like her or worse down syndrome children or others with mental problems etc...etc.... were not good enough to become catholic.
This all happened 20 years ago and up to this day I or my children have not been back to any church.
Love to get peoples views on this.
What on this Earth does a child of first holy communion age have to confess - she got mad at Mom because she had to clean her room? I am not Catholic - but it was always my assumption confession was for acting against the 10 Commandments - I cheated on my wife kind of stuff. I got beat every Sunday before church so I'd know what I was in for if I misbehaved - I too have never been back because I didn't think that was what God had in mind.
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
Girl the church tried to turn away
Too often the “Church†(all types) today has marketed itself like a business so people think they should be expecting results like any other service provider should deliver. In some cases the new church buildings even resemble fast food restaurants.
The church should be a place we go to give of ourselves in corporate worship to God and to give to each other. It is the giving that produces the spiritual food that we are seeking. Demanding or insisting that we be fed spiritually will result in spiritual starvation. If we walk through the door wondering what we can contribute rather than what we are going to receive, we receive abundantly.
There are congregations that have the right focus. They are attended by imperfect people who make mistakes but want to give of themselves to God and the others there.
It has been said that if we find a perfect church we should stay away, because we will most certainly ruin it if we attend.
The church should be a place we go to give of ourselves in corporate worship to God and to give to each other. It is the giving that produces the spiritual food that we are seeking. Demanding or insisting that we be fed spiritually will result in spiritual starvation. If we walk through the door wondering what we can contribute rather than what we are going to receive, we receive abundantly.
There are congregations that have the right focus. They are attended by imperfect people who make mistakes but want to give of themselves to God and the others there.
It has been said that if we find a perfect church we should stay away, because we will most certainly ruin it if we attend.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
Girl the church tried to turn away
Clint :-6
You're not going to believe this but I agree with you on that one.
I was raised in a fundamentalist church and when I began to think for myself I very quickly left. It was not preaching the Christianity that I had come to know and love.
After much study both formal and informal I still attend church. I can completely understand pina's position and I don't blame her. That was not of or from God but from the very humanity of an ignorant priest. However, I would like to say that not all churches behave in that fashion. There are others.
A Christian Pluralist
Shalom
Ted :-6
You're not going to believe this but I agree with you on that one.
I was raised in a fundamentalist church and when I began to think for myself I very quickly left. It was not preaching the Christianity that I had come to know and love.
After much study both formal and informal I still attend church. I can completely understand pina's position and I don't blame her. That was not of or from God but from the very humanity of an ignorant priest. However, I would like to say that not all churches behave in that fashion. There are others.
A Christian Pluralist
Shalom
Ted :-6
Girl the church tried to turn away
Pina wrote:
I was brought up in a catholic family, married in a catholic church and promised to bring my children up as good catholics.
When one of my daughters at the age of seven was due to take her first confession and then first communion. I had made a beautiful little white dress and invited family and friends to the church.
Her school teacher told me only 3 days before the event that my daughter didn't know enough about god to go through with it.
As you can imagine I was very annoyed and went to see the Priest at our church.
To my dismay he agreed with the teacher, and after a long dispute and some argueing he agreed to let her take her first communion only because I had gone to so much trouble with the dress and invites, but not her first confession.
This didn't make sense to me because as you know we catholics usualy go to confession a few days before going to a mass and taking communion.
The arguement with the priest was because my daughter was a little slower than the other children in her class did this mean that her and others like her or worse down syndrome children or others with mental problems etc...etc.... were not good enough to become catholic.
This all happened 20 years ago and up to this day I or my children have not been back to any church.
Love to get peoples views on this.
I hate it when I have to be the odd one........lol
I think there is an element here that have not been addressed. That element is knowledge.
Our beliefs, and acceptance of God in all religion regardless, is based on our knowledge of God, and all that he expects of us. Therefore, our knowledge of God becomes the basis in which religion (acting in the name of God) determines wether we are ready to accept God in our lives or otherwise. I know this is harsh, but having faith in something not seen can only be counted as faith if we have a perfectly firm knowledge of what it is we are asked to have faith in. In order to worship God. God requires of us to come to some kind of knowledge of who he is, what he expects of us, what it is we are being asked to do in his name....etc.. In all the history of Gods dealings with man, knowledge has been the basis of that relationship.
Pina, I don't know what words were used by your priest when you discussed the matter of your daughters first confession and first communion. But I believe it should have been stressed to you by the priest that if your child isn't knowledgeable in what she is confessing and taking communion in, perhaps your child could wait a few more days/weeks/months in order for the knowledge to kick in before taking on such an important step in her life.
I know that by saying this, it opens up several cans of worms.
Pina, perhaps you were too angry in your haste to get this important step done for your daughter that you were blinded to this fact and took it lightly. After all, you have made the dress, invited friends. I would understand why people react this way at times. I will not fanthom the thought that priests and religious authorities make a habbit of turning away little children from God. I am not discounting the fact that your priest could have been too arrogant to the point that it turned you completely away by not explaining the truths in first having knowledge in God before taking first confession and first communion, as is sometimes the case. But if your bitter feelings were derived from your own shortcomings, I am afriad you have been unfair to the church for these many years. I also understand your uncomfortable feelings of the priests suggestion to only have her take communion without confession. But in all that is good, why do you feel that she should have been allowed to have confession? What would a child of 7 have to confess? I feel that the only crime the church committed was in allowing her to have communion in the first place. The church should have been firm in it's stance of allowing her to have a basic knowledge of God first.
The facts still remains that one should have a level of basic knowledge of God before accepting him. If you were afriad that your child will be left outside Gods' kingdom because she was not recieved into the church like all the other little girls of the congregation. You lacked the knowledge that little children recieves a free pass to the kingdom of heaven if they die short of having a perfect knowledge of God. Because you mentioned that your child was a little slower then other children her age, perhaps that should have been a perfect indication that your child would be a little late as well in recieving her first confession and communion. I know too many people who put too much emphasis on keeping up with the Joneses that they are blinded and too prideful to acknowledge small elements of truths. There was nothing wrong with waiting a few more days/weeks/months/years. It would have eventually come, that was the most important truth. But because there are too many outside influences that come into the equation of making the right decisions. We are often sidetracted from the paths of righteousness.
I am not catholic to be sure. But I know that alot of people leave their religious beliefs because of ignorance, rather then the churches doings. I am not discounting the fact that alot of religious doctrines have passed it's usefulness, and needs to change in order to deal with needs, and the changing of the day, and alot of people leave because of this neglect. Still, there is still an element of truth that ignorance plays a huge part in why people leave religion.
I was brought up in a catholic family, married in a catholic church and promised to bring my children up as good catholics.
When one of my daughters at the age of seven was due to take her first confession and then first communion. I had made a beautiful little white dress and invited family and friends to the church.
Her school teacher told me only 3 days before the event that my daughter didn't know enough about god to go through with it.
As you can imagine I was very annoyed and went to see the Priest at our church.
To my dismay he agreed with the teacher, and after a long dispute and some argueing he agreed to let her take her first communion only because I had gone to so much trouble with the dress and invites, but not her first confession.
This didn't make sense to me because as you know we catholics usualy go to confession a few days before going to a mass and taking communion.
The arguement with the priest was because my daughter was a little slower than the other children in her class did this mean that her and others like her or worse down syndrome children or others with mental problems etc...etc.... were not good enough to become catholic.
This all happened 20 years ago and up to this day I or my children have not been back to any church.
Love to get peoples views on this.
I hate it when I have to be the odd one........lol
I think there is an element here that have not been addressed. That element is knowledge.
Our beliefs, and acceptance of God in all religion regardless, is based on our knowledge of God, and all that he expects of us. Therefore, our knowledge of God becomes the basis in which religion (acting in the name of God) determines wether we are ready to accept God in our lives or otherwise. I know this is harsh, but having faith in something not seen can only be counted as faith if we have a perfectly firm knowledge of what it is we are asked to have faith in. In order to worship God. God requires of us to come to some kind of knowledge of who he is, what he expects of us, what it is we are being asked to do in his name....etc.. In all the history of Gods dealings with man, knowledge has been the basis of that relationship.
Pina, I don't know what words were used by your priest when you discussed the matter of your daughters first confession and first communion. But I believe it should have been stressed to you by the priest that if your child isn't knowledgeable in what she is confessing and taking communion in, perhaps your child could wait a few more days/weeks/months in order for the knowledge to kick in before taking on such an important step in her life.
I know that by saying this, it opens up several cans of worms.
Pina, perhaps you were too angry in your haste to get this important step done for your daughter that you were blinded to this fact and took it lightly. After all, you have made the dress, invited friends. I would understand why people react this way at times. I will not fanthom the thought that priests and religious authorities make a habbit of turning away little children from God. I am not discounting the fact that your priest could have been too arrogant to the point that it turned you completely away by not explaining the truths in first having knowledge in God before taking first confession and first communion, as is sometimes the case. But if your bitter feelings were derived from your own shortcomings, I am afriad you have been unfair to the church for these many years. I also understand your uncomfortable feelings of the priests suggestion to only have her take communion without confession. But in all that is good, why do you feel that she should have been allowed to have confession? What would a child of 7 have to confess? I feel that the only crime the church committed was in allowing her to have communion in the first place. The church should have been firm in it's stance of allowing her to have a basic knowledge of God first.
The facts still remains that one should have a level of basic knowledge of God before accepting him. If you were afriad that your child will be left outside Gods' kingdom because she was not recieved into the church like all the other little girls of the congregation. You lacked the knowledge that little children recieves a free pass to the kingdom of heaven if they die short of having a perfect knowledge of God. Because you mentioned that your child was a little slower then other children her age, perhaps that should have been a perfect indication that your child would be a little late as well in recieving her first confession and communion. I know too many people who put too much emphasis on keeping up with the Joneses that they are blinded and too prideful to acknowledge small elements of truths. There was nothing wrong with waiting a few more days/weeks/months/years. It would have eventually come, that was the most important truth. But because there are too many outside influences that come into the equation of making the right decisions. We are often sidetracted from the paths of righteousness.
I am not catholic to be sure. But I know that alot of people leave their religious beliefs because of ignorance, rather then the churches doings. I am not discounting the fact that alot of religious doctrines have passed it's usefulness, and needs to change in order to deal with needs, and the changing of the day, and alot of people leave because of this neglect. Still, there is still an element of truth that ignorance plays a huge part in why people leave religion.