Getting Used To The Dark
In this day and age it seems that sin is seriously on the increase. Morality in or nation is at an all time low. There is rampant sexual perversion, adultery, fornication, and murder. Word of these fill our news and our communities. Problems that were once only in the big cities now haunt small town America, even in the bible belt. Things that were once kept in the dark yesterday are openly displayed today. Some people say this is the way it should be. The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
“and men loved darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth
evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved (discovered).
John 3 :19-20
Our military uses darkness to it’s advantage for obvious reasons. During my time in the military I learned a lesson about the dark. Almost everything happens in the dark. Darkness hides your activity, just as it hides the activity of Satan in our lives. Satan cannot bear the light, because darkness and light cannot co-exist. I remember a night in Germany sitting on a hillside just about dusk. We were instructed to extinguish all light producing sources. As darkness slowly crept upon us amazingly my eyes adjusted to the darkness. I could not see clearly, but I was able to see enough to maneuver without stumbling. I could get by. Without warning or expectation an illuminating flare was lit high in the night sky. The entire sky around us was illuminated with a brilliant light. While the flare was burning we could see as clearly as if it were day. As the flare burned out, initially I could see nothing. When the flare was totally burned out my eyes
had to readjust to the darkness. If we lived in a dark environment all the time we could get used to the dark.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, God is Light and in him is no
darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not
the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another, and the
blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleaneth form all sin
1John 1: 5-7
Darkness of itself does not exist. Darkness is the absence of light. As thelight of that brilliant flare burned and lit up the night sky we could see clearly, as it burned out darkness began to engulf us again. Just as our eyes can slowly get used to the dark we as Christians let the absence of light to creep into our lives. We can get used to the dark. Where does our light come from? The presence of Jesus Christ in our hearts is our flare in the night sky.
“ I must work the work of him that sent me while it is day, the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
John 9: 4-5
Jesus is our flare in the night sky, He is the bright and morning star. When we ask Him into our lives He fills us with His light through the Holy Spirit. So if we have such an abundance of light why are we getting used to the dark? So say there is just too much darkness in the world today to make a difference. I say God forbid! A little light goes a long way. Consider the size of that flare to the size of the night sky it lit up. The bible talks of a candle, how much light can one candle put off? I think a lot of us are hiding
our candle. We are afraid for others to see our candle burning for one reason or another. Could it be pride or insecurity. Are you afraid that your light might expose things the are lacking in your life? Are you afraid your life will expose the wrong in the lives of people you are close to, hindering your relationship. Light and darkness cannot walk together. So are you just getting used to the dark?
“ Ye are the light of the world, a city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle
and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let
your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father which is in
heaven.
Matthew 5: 14-16
As more and more Christian get used to the dark, there is less and less light shining forth to overcome the darkness.The only remedy is more light. We all have to uncover our candles. We need to search out and light more candles. Let us all pray that we will be willing to allow God to brighten our light through a revival that will send light throughout the world. Let none get used to the dark!
Three mornings in a row on my way to work I passed cars in the oncoming lane with one headlight out. The drivers of these cars possibly may not have know they were driving with only one headlight. Those that did may have been like me. They were just too busy with other things to get it fixed right away. They had more important things to worry about because they could see even though dimly. Does your Christian walk have a headlight out? Why not let God replace it with two of those “starbright bulbs?
We need to think about the children’s song “This little light of mine,I’m gonna let it shine
“For ye were sometimes darkness, but now ye are light in the Lord, walk as children of the light
Ephesians 5:8
Please visit Sharing Christ Online
Getting Used To The Dark
Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;775990 wrote: I'm going to assume you're against all wars then, "Thou shalt not kill". Is that fair to say? Or are there exceptions to that commandment?
How could there not be exceptions? The bible demands that certain people in certain situations must be killed, that's not contrary to the commandment. The commandment's against a specific form of killing, "ratsach", to murder, slay, kill - with premeditation, or as an avenger, an intentional slayer. one who murders or assassinates. If you're involved in a godly war on God's behest, at his command, under his orders, you're not doing that. You're spreading enlightenment at the point of a sword.
How could there not be exceptions? The bible demands that certain people in certain situations must be killed, that's not contrary to the commandment. The commandment's against a specific form of killing, "ratsach", to murder, slay, kill - with premeditation, or as an avenger, an intentional slayer. one who murders or assassinates. If you're involved in a godly war on God's behest, at his command, under his orders, you're not doing that. You're spreading enlightenment at the point of a sword.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Getting Used To The Dark
spot;775992 wrote: How could there not be exceptions? The bible demands that certain people in certain situations must be killed, that's not contrary to the commandment. The commandment's against a specific form of killing, "ratsach", to murder, slay, kill - with premeditation, or as an avenger, an intentional slayer. one who murders or assassinates. If you're involved in a godly war on God's behest, at his command, under his orders, you're not doing that. You're spreading enlightenment at the point of a sword.
Killing is killing!
Might I ask who gets to decide God's behest?
I'd also ask how many times he's commanded both sides to spread enlightenment at the point of a sword.
Killing is killing!
Might I ask who gets to decide God's behest?
I'd also ask how many times he's commanded both sides to spread enlightenment at the point of a sword.
Getting Used To The Dark
I'm sorry to contradict you but "my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless", and the speaker is God himself at this point in the narrative if I remember correctly. Two sorts of killing, see.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Getting Used To The Dark
spot;775995 wrote: I'm sorry to contradict you but "my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless", and the speaker is God himself at this point in the narrative if I remember correctly. Two sorts of killing, see.
Never did get on too well with the Old Testament - if God wants vengeance He can take it Himself.
Never did get on too well with the Old Testament - if God wants vengeance He can take it Himself.
Getting Used To The Dark
Ah. That'll be the quails and the earthquakes and the lightning and the inclement continuous precipitation. I expect I missed a few arcane applications of benevolence in that list. Bears! Of course! Bears.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;775990 wrote: I'm going to assume you're against all wars then, "Thou shalt not kill". Is that fair to say? Or are there exceptions to that commandment?
I really do know know what my post had to do with "wars".
God Bless
Attached files
I really do know know what my post had to do with "wars".
God Bless
Attached files
Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;775990 wrote: I'm going to assume you're against all wars then, "Thou shalt not kill". Is that fair to say? Or are there exceptions to that commandment?
Many people believe the Bible says, “Thou shalt not kill, and seek to apply this command to war. However, the Bible actually says, “Thou shalt not murder (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.
Bobby
Many people believe the Bible says, “Thou shalt not kill, and seek to apply this command to war. However, the Bible actually says, “Thou shalt not murder (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.
Bobby
Getting Used To The Dark
There isnt any fornication going on in my neck of the woods.. in the dark, or the light.
Maybe, I just havent noticed.
Maybe, I just havent noticed.
[FONT=Microsoft Sans Serif][/FONT]
Getting Used To The Dark
postedby bhughesnc
In this day and age it seems that sin is seriously on the increase. Morality in or nation is at an all time low. There is rampant sexual perversion, adultery, fornication, and murder. Word of these fill our news and our communities. Problems that were once only in the big cities now haunt small town America, even in the bible belt. Things that were once kept in the dark yesterday are openly displayed today. Some people say this is the way it should be. The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
The only darkness you need really worry about is that brought by those who believe they and only they know how people should think and believe.
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark
Thank goodness we have progressed from the bad old days of narrow minded bigots ruling the roost. Next you will be calling for the witch-finder general.
Just be grateful you live in a secular society where you are free to practice any religion you want. Worry about your own soul. No one wants wants the days of religious intolerance and bigotry back
In this day and age it seems that sin is seriously on the increase. Morality in or nation is at an all time low. There is rampant sexual perversion, adultery, fornication, and murder. Word of these fill our news and our communities. Problems that were once only in the big cities now haunt small town America, even in the bible belt. Things that were once kept in the dark yesterday are openly displayed today. Some people say this is the way it should be. The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
The only darkness you need really worry about is that brought by those who believe they and only they know how people should think and believe.
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark
Thank goodness we have progressed from the bad old days of narrow minded bigots ruling the roost. Next you will be calling for the witch-finder general.
Just be grateful you live in a secular society where you are free to practice any religion you want. Worry about your own soul. No one wants wants the days of religious intolerance and bigotry back
Getting Used To The Dark
gmc;776401 wrote: postedby bhughesnc
Thank goodness we have progressed from the bad old days of narrow minded bigots ruling the roost. Next you will be calling for the witch-finder general.
bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
Bobby
Thank goodness we have progressed from the bad old days of narrow minded bigots ruling the roost. Next you will be calling for the witch-finder general.
bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
Bobby
Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould said:
Isn't that the truth..........see h:yh_devilere
I will ask that you look here and here
Thanks
Bobby
Isn't that the truth..........see h:yh_devilere
I will ask that you look here and here
Thanks
Bobby
Getting Used To The Dark
BHughesNC;776419 wrote: bigot: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
Bobby
Maybe he did but his followers certainly feel no inhibition about using force when they can get away with it.
I should have said religious bigot.
Some people say this is the way it should be. The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
Why should anyone have to live in fear that their lifestyle offend the unco guid.
General Scots* - variant - pronunciation
the unco guid [ðə 'ʌŋkə gød, -gyd, -gɪd, -ged, MN. -gwid, NN. -gid]
the self-righteously moral or pious
Those that would turn off the light of tolerance should have no place in society. religious bigotry and intolerance causes more misery than just about anything else in society.
posted by bchughesnc
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
I dare say you are not and did not mean to offend. But too many religious groups whine about the decline of morals in society when all they mean is they object to people not believing as they do, and would force all to their absurd (IMO) belief system. They claim the right to criticise others and claim that their beliefs are somehow more worthy of respect and should not be challenged or questioned in any way.
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
Bobby
Maybe he did but his followers certainly feel no inhibition about using force when they can get away with it.
I should have said religious bigot.
Some people say this is the way it should be. The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
Why should anyone have to live in fear that their lifestyle offend the unco guid.
General Scots* - variant - pronunciation
the unco guid [ðə 'ʌŋkə gød, -gyd, -gɪd, -ged, MN. -gwid, NN. -gid]
the self-righteously moral or pious
Those that would turn off the light of tolerance should have no place in society. religious bigotry and intolerance causes more misery than just about anything else in society.
posted by bchughesnc
I don't consider myself a bigot or narrow minded. I am just offering an opinion. I don't hardly see anyone even Christian's persecuting anyone even witches. Jesus did not come to rule but to serve.
I dare say you are not and did not mean to offend. But too many religious groups whine about the decline of morals in society when all they mean is they object to people not believing as they do, and would force all to their absurd (IMO) belief system. They claim the right to criticise others and claim that their beliefs are somehow more worthy of respect and should not be challenged or questioned in any way.
Getting Used To The Dark
The thing is, Bobby, people can be very intense believers and yet cause immense suffering, and they can be complete non-believers and great assets to society. They can even, at a pinch, be rampantly sexual perverts or just heavily into fornication and be great assets to society. A permissive society is a healthier society than a repressive one. Societies dominated by religion are invariably repressive. Religion as a personal ethic is fine for those who need it, it just needs to be kept where it belongs.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Getting Used To The Dark
BHughesNC;776451 wrote: rjwould said:
Isn't that the truth..........see h:yh_devilere
I will ask that you look here and here
Thanks
Bobby
Are you saying that RJ is the devil, or one of his worshipers, because he questioned or high-lighted the possibility that Jesus may have been gay? :wah::wah:
Isn't that the truth..........see h:yh_devilere
I will ask that you look here and here
Thanks
Bobby
Are you saying that RJ is the devil, or one of his worshipers, because he questioned or high-lighted the possibility that Jesus may have been gay? :wah::wah:
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Getting Used To The Dark
BHughesNC;775981 wrote: [...]
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. [...]
I agree with virtually all of your opening post, Bobby. Well done. This sentence doesn't fit well in it, though. Are you saying we, as Christians, should be publicly condemning those who live sinful lives? I see that as counterproductive. We shine our light to attract others, not necessarily to expose them -- to draw them out of the darkness, rather than catching them misbehaving in it. I'll leave condemnation up to Him, lest I condemn the wrong person.
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. [...]
I agree with virtually all of your opening post, Bobby. Well done. This sentence doesn't fit well in it, though. Are you saying we, as Christians, should be publicly condemning those who live sinful lives? I see that as counterproductive. We shine our light to attract others, not necessarily to expose them -- to draw them out of the darkness, rather than catching them misbehaving in it. I'll leave condemnation up to Him, lest I condemn the wrong person.
Getting Used To The Dark
Accountable;777217 wrote: I agree with virtually all of your opening post, Bobby. Well done. This sentence doesn't fit well in it, though. Are you saying we, as Christians, should be publicly condemning those who live sinful lives? I see that as counterproductive. We shine our light to attract others, not necessarily to expose them -- to draw them out of the darkness, rather than catching them misbehaving in it. I'll leave condemnation up to Him, lest I condemn the wrong person.
Thanks for your illuminating input. The point I was trying to make is that some Christians are satisfied with leaving sin in the dark. If we do not expose sin as sin we can just ignore it. My feeling is that some people do not know certain behaviors are sinful because no one has exposed it as sin.
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Bobby
Thanks for your illuminating input. The point I was trying to make is that some Christians are satisfied with leaving sin in the dark. If we do not expose sin as sin we can just ignore it. My feeling is that some people do not know certain behaviors are sinful because no one has exposed it as sin.
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Bobby
-
Richard Bell
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 am
Getting Used To The Dark
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation.
A/K/A Western Democracy
How have we come to such a place?
By defending it against those who would take it away from us.
No theocracy for me, thank you.
A/K/A Western Democracy
How have we come to such a place?
By defending it against those who would take it away from us.
No theocracy for me, thank you.
Getting Used To The Dark
BHughesNC;777887 wrote: Thanks for your illuminating input. The point I was trying to make is that some Christians are satisfied with leaving sin in the dark. If we do not expose sin as sin we can just ignore it. My feeling is that some people do not know certain behaviors are sinful because no one has exposed it as sin.
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Bobby
Why do so many Christians have such a prurient interest in the lifestyles of others? Only in the religious posts do you see such fascination with homosexuality and none of them are about preaching christian tolerance.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it.
Bobby
Why do so many Christians have such a prurient interest in the lifestyles of others? Only in the religious posts do you see such fascination with homosexuality and none of them are about preaching christian tolerance.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Getting Used To The Dark
gmc;777967 wrote: Why do so many Christians have such a prurient interest in the lifestyles of others? Only in the religious posts do you see such fascination with homosexuality and none of them are about preaching christian tolerance.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
You'd prefer this thread to be in some pro-homosexual forum? This is exactly the place for this discussion. And btw I think yours is the first mention of homosexuality in this particular thread but I haven't checked.
Tolerance doesn't equate to acceptance. Nowhere has Bobby said his beliefs should be mandatory law, only that Christians should act as Christians.
For example (and correct me if I'm wrong, Bobby) if someone approached a Christian bragging that he just got an extra tenner in change at the local store. of the following options:
A. Saying, "Cool! Treat me to a burger. I'm starving."
B. Saying, a little uncomfortably, "Good for you."
C. Saying nothing.
D. Saying coldly, "Well, a GOOD Christian would return that immediately."
E. Saying, "Good thing you noticed. That cashier will get in big trouble if we don't get that back to her. Let's go back in. After that I'll treat you to a burger. I'm starving."
F. Screaming "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL, THIEF!!" then praying loudly for his soul.
The proper approach would be E, tolerating the person but not the sin.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
You'd prefer this thread to be in some pro-homosexual forum? This is exactly the place for this discussion. And btw I think yours is the first mention of homosexuality in this particular thread but I haven't checked.
Tolerance doesn't equate to acceptance. Nowhere has Bobby said his beliefs should be mandatory law, only that Christians should act as Christians.
For example (and correct me if I'm wrong, Bobby) if someone approached a Christian bragging that he just got an extra tenner in change at the local store. of the following options:
A. Saying, "Cool! Treat me to a burger. I'm starving."
B. Saying, a little uncomfortably, "Good for you."
C. Saying nothing.
D. Saying coldly, "Well, a GOOD Christian would return that immediately."
E. Saying, "Good thing you noticed. That cashier will get in big trouble if we don't get that back to her. Let's go back in. After that I'll treat you to a burger. I'm starving."
F. Screaming "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL, THIEF!!" then praying loudly for his soul.
The proper approach would be E, tolerating the person but not the sin.
Getting Used To The Dark
Posted by accountable
You'd prefer this thread to be in some pro-homosexual forum? This is exactly the place for this discussion. And btw I think yours is the first mention of homosexuality in this particular thread but I haven't checked.
Let me rephrase the question
Why do so many Christians have such a prurient interest in the lifestyles of others? For instance Only in the religious posts do you see such fascination with homosexuality and none of them are about preaching christian tolerance.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god Jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
You're right I am the first one to mention it in this particular thread. I was making the point that threads bringing up the subject of homosexuality, promiscuity or anything sexually related subject in a condemnatory tone is almost invariably in a religious thread.
If this was on a pro-homosexuality forum I would not have been reading it. Not being homosexual such forums don't have any particular interest.
Politics and religion do.
Sin is subjective.
Theft is a crime against society. As such society has a right to take sanctions in a manner agreed upon.
posted by BHughesNC
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
.
In this day and age it seems that sin is seriously on the increase. Morality in or nation is at an all time low.
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
A sin, in one sense is something that is deemed to offend divine law. Divine law is something you believe in or you don't-as indeed is the divine.
Because some think a particular lifestyle a sin does not make it so. Nor do those who believe in the divine have any better sense of right or wrong although they would have us believe that they do.
There are some things we can all agree on should not be tolerated. There are also some things or lifestyles that may be repugnant but so long as they take place between consenting adults of their own free will then if you wish your own freedom to live as you choose you have to extend the same to others.
Sin is not on the rise. what is different is that we do not pretend that things, like child abuse don't happen whereas before a child would not be believed and in the case of some churches the culprit protected. Marriage and the family are stronger than ever but now people are not forced to stay in unhappy marriages even if some churches still excommunicate those who exercise that new freedom and condemn easy divorce as breaking up the family without taking cognisance of the misery that was the lot of many when there was no choice in the matter. Thumping the wife is no longer a husband's right. (in my case it would be the last thing I ever did anyway)
The only dark we need worry about is the darkness of narrow minded religious and political bigotry.
To paraphrase martin luther-reason is the greatest enemy that faith has. What you see is not the lights going on but rather the light being shone on all the dark corners where once people were afraid to speak out for fear of condemnation as a sinner and people standing proud away from that fear.
perhaps the greatest sin of all is sanctimony ( and just to make myself clear. That is a general comment in the interests of pursuing a debate and is not in any way directed at anyone who posted on this thread)
posted by accountable
For example (and correct me if I'm wrong, Bobby) if someone approached a Christian bragging that he just got an extra tenner in change at the local store. of the following options:
A. Saying, "Cool! Treat me to a burger. I'm starving."
B. Saying, a little uncomfortably, "Good for you."
C. Saying nothing.
D. Saying coldly, "Well, a GOOD Christian would return that immediately."
E. Saying, "Good thing you noticed. That cashier will get in big trouble if we don't get that back to her. Let's go back in. After that I'll treat you to a burger. I'm starving."
F. Screaming "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL, THIEF!!" then praying loudly for his soul.
The proper approach would be E, tolerating the person but not the sin.
I would actually agree with you there in principle, but not quite for the same reason.
You'd prefer this thread to be in some pro-homosexual forum? This is exactly the place for this discussion. And btw I think yours is the first mention of homosexuality in this particular thread but I haven't checked.
Let me rephrase the question
Why do so many Christians have such a prurient interest in the lifestyles of others? For instance Only in the religious posts do you see such fascination with homosexuality and none of them are about preaching christian tolerance.
Fire and brimstone, be afraid of hell and the wrath of god. What happened to the god Jesus seemed to believe in? Not scary enough or something?
You're right I am the first one to mention it in this particular thread. I was making the point that threads bringing up the subject of homosexuality, promiscuity or anything sexually related subject in a condemnatory tone is almost invariably in a religious thread.
If this was on a pro-homosexuality forum I would not have been reading it. Not being homosexual such forums don't have any particular interest.
Politics and religion do.
Sin is subjective.
Theft is a crime against society. As such society has a right to take sanctions in a manner agreed upon.
posted by BHughesNC
Thanks condemnation is totally the wrong word. I do believe that sin needs to be exposed as sin. I think there are Christians who burn their own personal candles dimly so as not to expose their own sin.
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In this day and age it seems that sin is seriously on the increase. Morality in or nation is at an all time low.
The common idea is that people should be able to live their lives in the open without fear of condemnation. How have we come to such a place? Answer: Christians are getting used to the dark.
A sin, in one sense is something that is deemed to offend divine law. Divine law is something you believe in or you don't-as indeed is the divine.
Because some think a particular lifestyle a sin does not make it so. Nor do those who believe in the divine have any better sense of right or wrong although they would have us believe that they do.
There are some things we can all agree on should not be tolerated. There are also some things or lifestyles that may be repugnant but so long as they take place between consenting adults of their own free will then if you wish your own freedom to live as you choose you have to extend the same to others.
Sin is not on the rise. what is different is that we do not pretend that things, like child abuse don't happen whereas before a child would not be believed and in the case of some churches the culprit protected. Marriage and the family are stronger than ever but now people are not forced to stay in unhappy marriages even if some churches still excommunicate those who exercise that new freedom and condemn easy divorce as breaking up the family without taking cognisance of the misery that was the lot of many when there was no choice in the matter. Thumping the wife is no longer a husband's right. (in my case it would be the last thing I ever did anyway)
The only dark we need worry about is the darkness of narrow minded religious and political bigotry.
To paraphrase martin luther-reason is the greatest enemy that faith has. What you see is not the lights going on but rather the light being shone on all the dark corners where once people were afraid to speak out for fear of condemnation as a sinner and people standing proud away from that fear.
perhaps the greatest sin of all is sanctimony ( and just to make myself clear. That is a general comment in the interests of pursuing a debate and is not in any way directed at anyone who posted on this thread)
posted by accountable
For example (and correct me if I'm wrong, Bobby) if someone approached a Christian bragging that he just got an extra tenner in change at the local store. of the following options:
A. Saying, "Cool! Treat me to a burger. I'm starving."
B. Saying, a little uncomfortably, "Good for you."
C. Saying nothing.
D. Saying coldly, "Well, a GOOD Christian would return that immediately."
E. Saying, "Good thing you noticed. That cashier will get in big trouble if we don't get that back to her. Let's go back in. After that I'll treat you to a burger. I'm starving."
F. Screaming "YOU'LL BURN IN HELL, THIEF!!" then praying loudly for his soul.
The proper approach would be E, tolerating the person but not the sin.
I would actually agree with you there in principle, but not quite for the same reason.
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Accountable
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Getting Used To The Dark
gmc;778097 wrote: I would actually agree with you there in principle, but not quite for the same reason.
Right. So would a Muslim, I would imagine. Some principles are universal. For everything else, there's MasterCard. Sorry, had to do it.
I have a problem with Christians or anyone else who thinks we should impose Christian rules & values on everyone ... smacks of radical Islam to me. We should follow Jesus' teachings because we want to and because it is right, full stop. Let Caesar have his law & we can have ours. They don't have to be the same. If we live ours lives properly, others will naturally want to know how and why. They'll be drawn to us like, well, moths to the light.
Right. So would a Muslim, I would imagine. Some principles are universal. For everything else, there's MasterCard. Sorry, had to do it.
I have a problem with Christians or anyone else who thinks we should impose Christian rules & values on everyone ... smacks of radical Islam to me. We should follow Jesus' teachings because we want to and because it is right, full stop. Let Caesar have his law & we can have ours. They don't have to be the same. If we live ours lives properly, others will naturally want to know how and why. They'll be drawn to us like, well, moths to the light.-
Accountable
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Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;778195 wrote: This is a contradiction. Not surprising though. Dark is, and light is a 'correction' to what is...Jesus said, 'I am', so, logic would lead us to understand that Jesus, as God, was the darkness itself. Jesus as saviour, is the light which is added to or subtracted from that darkness in order to change the perspective.
Consider the idea that Jesus came to destroy the law by fulfilling the law...Christianity is a contradiction to itself, that is why people are drawn to it. It is so contradictory that it leaves people feeling so confused that one submits to the idea because there must be some sort of cosmic, godly key to understanding it, otherwise how could it have survived as long as it has....Another contradiction....
All your contradictions are only contradictory if you accept your original premise, which makes no sense - thus the rest of your argument goes. Besides, Jesus never came to destroy the law.
Consider the idea that Jesus came to destroy the law by fulfilling the law...Christianity is a contradiction to itself, that is why people are drawn to it. It is so contradictory that it leaves people feeling so confused that one submits to the idea because there must be some sort of cosmic, godly key to understanding it, otherwise how could it have survived as long as it has....Another contradiction....
All your contradictions are only contradictory if you accept your original premise, which makes no sense - thus the rest of your argument goes. Besides, Jesus never came to destroy the law.
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Accountable
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Getting Used To The Dark
Darkness is the absence or deficiency of light: the darkness of night. Darkness is zero. Nothing. One can't create zero. I can't show you nothing.
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Accountable
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Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;778242 wrote: Well, although you are making my point for me, I will contradict you using your own bible. According to the above, God made darkness. You may give it a value of zero, but unless darkness was either a mistake or simply a consequence of God's creation, it didn't exist before God's hand got involved......That gives darkness value...
It goes along the same lines as cold....One must add or subtract heat, the consequence of lack of heat is coldness, which 'is'
'kay.
Apparently you quoted something different than what you're reading, because I don't see it. Not sure of the relevance anyway. Doesn't take away from the contradiction that you say Jesus came to destroy the Land Jesus said the opposite.
It goes along the same lines as cold....One must add or subtract heat, the consequence of lack of heat is coldness, which 'is'
'kay.
Apparently you quoted something different than what you're reading, because I don't see it. Not sure of the relevance anyway. Doesn't take away from the contradiction that you say Jesus came to destroy the Land Jesus said the opposite.
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Accountable
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Getting Used To The Dark
rjwould;778268 wrote: In my post I made the observation that Jesus came to destroy the law ..
Bible Verse: Matthew 5:17-18 (Jesus said) - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
We now return you to the original subject already in progress.
Bible Verse: Matthew 5:17-18 (Jesus said) - "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
We now return you to the original subject already in progress.
Getting Used To The Dark
posted by rjwould
Consider the idea that Jesus came to destroy the law by fulfilling the law...Christianity is a contradiction to itself, that is why people are drawn to it. It is so contradictory that it leaves people feeling so confused that one submits to the idea because there must be some sort of cosmic, godly key to understanding it, otherwise how could it have survived as long as it has....Another contradiction....
People are drawn to it because in essence it is a good approach to life. Whether you believe in god or not there is much to commend the philosphy.
If jesus was the light -supposed to how a new way a new testament as to how all should live their lives etc etc why do so many of his followers cling on to the, vicious, vindictive god of the old testament and look for passages to justify any particular hatred they might happen to have, armouring themselves in the self righteous protection of almighty god and preach hatred of anyone that does not conform to what they think is the correct way of behaving, or better still pity them because they are going to hell so have fun while they are on earth tormenting them.
Having done that you can then argue with fellow Christians about whether the holy trinity is the way to go or not. Protestant can slaughter catholic because they worship idols and Catholics can slaughter protestants because they don't worship properly.
If there is only one god then it must be the same one that muslims worship and jews worship so where does this my god is the only one and yours is wrong come from? You either believe in one god, or you don't believe. You can't be seeing a different god from the muslim or the jew because if you believe you are then you accept there is more than one god.
Religious belief is by it's nature irrational but at least you would think the sheer surprise of finding others equally irrational would be enough common ground that you want to sit down and talk about it rather than bash someone's head in because they don't belief quite the same kind of nonsense as you do. At least pagans were open to the idea that the other god worshipper might have a valid belief system as well.
posted by accountable
Right. So would a Muslim, I would imagine. Some principles are universal. For everything else, there's MasterCard. Sorry, had to do it. I have a problem with Christians or anyone else who thinks we should impose Christian rules & values on everyone ... smacks of radical Islam to me. We should follow Jesus' teachings because we want to and because it is right, full stop. Let Caesar have his law & we can have ours. They don't have to be the same. If we live ours lives properly, others will naturally want to know how and why. They'll be drawn to us like, well, moths to the light.
So would anyone with half a brain. You don't need religion to be moral. nor do you need a priest to tell you right from wrong. I have the same problem. I can tolerate someone's religious beliefs up until they try and impose them on others and demand the right to be heard without being prepared to be criticised.
Jesus may or may not be the light (I'm an agnostic in case you are still wondering) but a lot of his followers put on dark glasses and turn back to the darkness taking great glee in finding justification fuel for their prejudice.
Logic and religion do not belong in the same sentence.
Consider the idea that Jesus came to destroy the law by fulfilling the law...Christianity is a contradiction to itself, that is why people are drawn to it. It is so contradictory that it leaves people feeling so confused that one submits to the idea because there must be some sort of cosmic, godly key to understanding it, otherwise how could it have survived as long as it has....Another contradiction....
People are drawn to it because in essence it is a good approach to life. Whether you believe in god or not there is much to commend the philosphy.
If jesus was the light -supposed to how a new way a new testament as to how all should live their lives etc etc why do so many of his followers cling on to the, vicious, vindictive god of the old testament and look for passages to justify any particular hatred they might happen to have, armouring themselves in the self righteous protection of almighty god and preach hatred of anyone that does not conform to what they think is the correct way of behaving, or better still pity them because they are going to hell so have fun while they are on earth tormenting them.
Having done that you can then argue with fellow Christians about whether the holy trinity is the way to go or not. Protestant can slaughter catholic because they worship idols and Catholics can slaughter protestants because they don't worship properly.
If there is only one god then it must be the same one that muslims worship and jews worship so where does this my god is the only one and yours is wrong come from? You either believe in one god, or you don't believe. You can't be seeing a different god from the muslim or the jew because if you believe you are then you accept there is more than one god.
Religious belief is by it's nature irrational but at least you would think the sheer surprise of finding others equally irrational would be enough common ground that you want to sit down and talk about it rather than bash someone's head in because they don't belief quite the same kind of nonsense as you do. At least pagans were open to the idea that the other god worshipper might have a valid belief system as well.
posted by accountable
Right. So would a Muslim, I would imagine. Some principles are universal. For everything else, there's MasterCard. Sorry, had to do it. I have a problem with Christians or anyone else who thinks we should impose Christian rules & values on everyone ... smacks of radical Islam to me. We should follow Jesus' teachings because we want to and because it is right, full stop. Let Caesar have his law & we can have ours. They don't have to be the same. If we live ours lives properly, others will naturally want to know how and why. They'll be drawn to us like, well, moths to the light.
So would anyone with half a brain. You don't need religion to be moral. nor do you need a priest to tell you right from wrong. I have the same problem. I can tolerate someone's religious beliefs up until they try and impose them on others and demand the right to be heard without being prepared to be criticised.
Jesus may or may not be the light (I'm an agnostic in case you are still wondering) but a lot of his followers put on dark glasses and turn back to the darkness taking great glee in finding justification fuel for their prejudice.
Logic and religion do not belong in the same sentence.
Getting Used To The Dark
gmc:-6
Holding the fort as ever. I've been away but I do agree with most of what you have been saying.
The fact of the matter is that the fundamentalist/literalist approach to the Christian faith was and is an invention of man resulting from the reformation. It does not go back to the earliest church, that of the apostles. These folks have indeed, created God in their own image.
The fundamentalist/literalist approach simply, as you have pointed out, leads to complete absurdities. For those who want to follow that approach I say go for it but you do not reflect the church established by the apostles.
Then I get blasted because I point out alternative interpretations. Yet I am told no one is proselytizing. LOL.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Holding the fort as ever. I've been away but I do agree with most of what you have been saying.
The fact of the matter is that the fundamentalist/literalist approach to the Christian faith was and is an invention of man resulting from the reformation. It does not go back to the earliest church, that of the apostles. These folks have indeed, created God in their own image.
The fundamentalist/literalist approach simply, as you have pointed out, leads to complete absurdities. For those who want to follow that approach I say go for it but you do not reflect the church established by the apostles.
Then I get blasted because I point out alternative interpretations. Yet I am told no one is proselytizing. LOL.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Getting Used To The Dark
A quote from "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong, pg283
"Once the Bible begins to be interpreted literally instead of symbolically, the idea of its God becomes impossible."
Ibid. 279
"A sense of peace, serenity and loving-kindness are the hallmarks of all true religious insight."
Shalom
Ted:-6
"Once the Bible begins to be interpreted literally instead of symbolically, the idea of its God becomes impossible."
Ibid. 279
"A sense of peace, serenity and loving-kindness are the hallmarks of all true religious insight."
Shalom
Ted:-6