Attacked

Peg · Post by **Peg** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:54 am

I took care of a friend's dog whose choke chain had gone in his neck

Basically, that's what the vet had me do. Neosporin and guaze. Just keep a watchful eye on the dog and the injury.

Post by **spot** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:57 am

Keep her indoors, or on a lead while she's exercising, give her time, dogs are good at healing. Food, rest, the occasional bit of attention. Lord, I could do with much the same, now I think about it. Wuff.

robinseggs · Post by **robinseggs** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:51 am

Your vet should have given you one of those big plastic "elizabithan" (sp) collars that prevents the dog from being able to get at those stitches. You should first call the vet and tell them exactly what you told us--that you are not prepared to pay anymore, however this is what happened. Any reputable vet would give you one of those collars and tell you what to do next. Your pooch should have gone home wearing that collar. They look funny in them but keeps them from bothering the site and promotes a faster heal. Good luck--so sorry about the attack. Hope she is feeling better!

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:03 am

Do you have the equivalent of the British RSPCA (animal charity) who might be able to give free or subsidised treatment, or at least good advice? Good luck!

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:20 am

Oh hun sorry to hear about the attack on your dog. I hope it will be ok. I am not sure a plastic collar would work if the neck wound is on the area that collar sits.

I think like humans just keep it clean and make sure you stop pooch from licking it all the time. Very nice the other owner paid the bills. What a blessing. Also watch pooch when it goes out side to do it's duty so it does not roll around on the ground in an attempt to scratch the wound as it heals.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Agnes · Post by **Agnes** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 7:28 am

Place some Arnica pellets in her drinking water. keep her in a cool place and i believe some Calms she can have also. These homeopathic remedies work well and promote quicker healing. each day she will get better. :-6

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:06 am

Depending on the site of the wound, if it was a bad one on the neck

that is probably why you weren't issued an e-collar.

You describe the wound as "bad" so I would take the dog back to the

vet. The owner of the attacking dog will just have to pay those

charges, too. I wouldn't let it go, and I wouldn't try home remedy

treatments. You're just setting yourself up for further disaster. If the

vet thought it could be treated as an open wound, the stitches

wouldn't have gone in in the first place!

When you take your dog back, ask for tips on how to prevent your

puppers from further damage to the wound. You might even have to

resort to some sedation of some sort.

You could use an old, soft t-shirt on your dog to keep the wound

covered, also.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:32 pm

What Val said....

Home remedies may be ok for people, but dogs aren't people, now, are they? Talk to your vet, and the T-shirt is a great way to protect the wound.

I also agree that the owner of the other dog will probably pay for re-stitching. The vet may not even charge you for that. The clinics I worked in would gladly re-stitch if the dog pulled them early.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:21 pm

No, it's not her fault Sadie ripped her stitches, but it IS her fault that her dog attacked yours. Ya gotta be tough on this one Susie, and I know you don't like being asertive, but this is what's right. Her dog messed up your dog, she should cover all the costs putting your dog right again. If you don't want to do it, have Tim do it! :yh_bigsmi

Good luck, and let us know what happens!

robinseggs · Post by **robinseggs** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:48 am

Oops-sorry about the advice on the collar! Overlooked that the wound was on the neck! Silly me! Hope she is doing ok!!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:05 am

My town just enacted strict laws concerning this. If the a dog attacks another pet, the owner can be sued and the dog can be destroyed.

You can even be fined if your dog is aggressive towards strangers and has the ability to get out of the yard (even if it doesn't).

I didn't read the thread, was it a pit bull? I absolutely hate those dogs. They're wild animals! if you can't keep a tiger, then why could you keep an attack dog the same size ,known to eat people?

Post by **spot** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:11 am

Jives, how do you think these things? A tiger can reach 11 feet in length, and 500 pounds! I have no love of pitbulls, but I would truly hate to face one the size of a tiger.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:26 am

pit bull, dobermin, rotweiler, heck even a lassie (collie) will fall back on their instincts. It's just a case of the larger the dog, the stronger the attack. Here too we have incredibly strict dog owner laws. If they attack anything living they may have to be destroyed. If they get out of your yard you are fined as per the size of your dog, they call it running at large. If your dog gets out more than once each time your fine goes up.

As a dog owner all my life I totally understand this. It is fair and just. All dogs have the potential to attack even the poodle. My daughter when she was about 5 was cornered by 2 german shepherds they scared her so bad, she peed her pants, and we called the animal services as these dogs were running at large. My daughters father had to ID the dogs which linked them to the owners. Then the owners were fined. They owners chose to fight this in court, my daughters father went to court, the judge asked him 2 questions, how old is your daughter, how tall is she. And the owners were slapped with double the fines. They could not pay so as compensation they had to have the aggressive female destroyed.

My point I guess is, if you own a dog be responsible. I have a yappy little thing and I refuse to let kids near him, I myself don't know if he would bite if provoked so I keep him away plain and simple.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:44 am

Jives, you are a reasonable guy and I really admire you for a lot of things,

and I want to ask you to consider your stand on pit bulls. Or any of you

for any of the breeds. It is NOT the breed of dog. It is the OWNER.

Here is something I posted in another thread. Jives, I think you can

handle it, spot, too, but I feel I have to do my part to get other

information out there about these dogs.

Warning: Parts of the following video may be extremely disturbing to

some viewers. But the pictures in the latter part I think should be seen

by more people, and the statistics at the end are quite shocking.

Again, a warning, this is not for the faint of heart.

The Pit Bull Problem

Thanks in advance.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:53 am

Val, I'm not getting anything with that link. Is it the same one you posted in the Tragedy in SF thread?

Jives, please listen to Val. It is the owners, NOT the breed. There is no such thing as a "bad" breed of dog. Just bad owners that cause these kinds of problems for the breed. If you'd like to hear more, email me and I can give you tons of info on pit bulls.

Post by **spot** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:55 am

I think it reasonable to suggest that it's not just the owner, it's the training. It's not just the dog that needs training, either, in a household. http://www.securityworld.com/library/ho ... ddogs.html seems fair comment.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:35 am

Also folks let's not forget the age and health of the dogs.

Puppies nip, people can misread this as a bite.

Old dogs with failing hearing and or eyesite will nip or even bite if startled.

Injured or sick dogs nip in defense.

It is all about being responsible. Keep your dog undercontrol leashed or in a secure yard or pen.

Do not allow anyone to come up to your dog and force their face or hand at the dog this is threatening the dog, or scaring the dog.

When someone comes to your door, secure your dog before you open the door. The person on the other side of the door can wait while you secure fido and likely will be glad you did so.

When walking your dog off leash make sure your dog is trained to come to you NO MATTER THE SITUATION. This is an easy task, put treats in your pocket and let fido know they are there and use a code word for immediate reaction. "treats!" yelled loudly at my dog brings him immediately even if he was approaching a female in season at full hormonal run.

A dog's a dog's a dog. Every breed is traced back to something wild. As humans we just have to know how to control them.

And as a non dog owner or dog lover, folks need to be aware that they need to ask to pet a dog, or ask if the dog is friendly. Never approach a dog without an owner.

As for dogs approaching other dogs, NEVER!!! scoop your dog up when another approaches. Slip the leash on and allow the sniff process. Then walk away if you are worried about the other dog. If you scoop up your dog, the approaching dog interprets that as your hiding something from them. Dogs do not take kindly to things being held high out of their reach, their instinct is to check it out, jump on you because they want to see what is in your hands. This is a common cause of child attacks, kids panic, raise their hands high and run, dogs don't understand and out of curiousity react.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:12 am

BR, just tried that link and it worked again. Don't know what's up.

Minks made some good points.

People far too often have ample warning that their dog could be a

danger. In the prior SF case with the 2 Presa Canarios, those dogs

had bitten or "lunged" at people several times before. Apparently

none of these was reported to proper authorities.

In the most recent case, I am now hearing reports that the male

pit bull may have in fact bitten the young boy EARLIER THAT DAY.

As far as I'm concerned, fault lies with the mother in that case.

She was warned.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:49 am

Val, it's probably this archaic computer I work on. I'll try again when the stupid thing is less tempermental. But is it the same link from your other thread? That one I was able to access.

It's unfortunate that people do not heed the "warnings" given by their pets. Dog owners want to believe their dog is harmless and would never hurt anyone. The 2 cases Val refers to are examples of owners completely disregarding the warning signs. It's flat-out criminal. People don't like to admit to short-comings in regards to their pets, (like most things) and the results are often fatal.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:55 am

Sorry, I should have said, yes it's the same from the "Tragedy in SF"

thread.

Tmbsgrl, hugs to your puppers:yh_hugs and all my wishes for a speedy

recovery!

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:59 am

people should use common sense when owning a dog. I used to own at one time an ancient border collie corgie cross, she was old and very grumpy and small. the other was a newfoundlander he was young, docile, and huge 125 lbs at his death. And kids would rush the little dog to pet her and I had to run interference cause she was deaf and blind and could nip. Hell she was 13 people years old. I would tell kids go on pet the big dog, he will lick you and they would say no he is too big then I would say ok, now you learned something, you don't want to pet every dog and every dog does not want to be petted, ASK first.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:02 pm

Yeah right girls:

Here's a statistic for you:

Out of the 1527 cases of reported dog attacks last year:

92% were Pitbulls

5% were German Sheperds

1% were Dobermans

1% were assorted other breeds.

Pitbulls killed 39 people last year including 17 children. A pitbull killed a child just the other day in Albuquerque this week. That pitbull came from a good family, but the family "pet" killed her child.

The mother was in total denial, just like you, she said...

"but he was always so gentle with children."

You know? i think that's just what Roy said right before his pet "tiger" nearly bit his head off and crippled him for life.

The entire breed is a lethal weapon. Pitbulls are wild, dangerous animals and should be banned.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:10 pm

History of Breed-Specific Legislation

Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) is, in simple terms, a statute or regulation that is directed toward one or more specific breeds of dogs. The majority of BSL is focused on breeds traditionally known as "dangerous," or those that have demonstrated particular propensities for aggression and violent behavior. In the early 1980s, a number of fatalities and serious injuries caused by certain breeds, including pit bull dogs, brought to the public's attention a perceived need for more stringent laws governing restraint of dogs.1 In 1980, for example, Hollywood, Florida's City Commission passed an ordinance that required persons who owned pit bull dogs to "complete special registration forms and prove the possession of $25,000 of public liability insurance."2 The regulation applied to several breeds, collectively identified as pit bulls. In 1984, a New Mexico town completely banned pit bulls and allowed county officers to confiscate and euthanize the dogs.3 Also that year, Cincinnati, Ohio enacted a regulation that "defined vicious dogs to include all pit bull terriers," and put special restrictions on the confinement, sale, and control of those dogs which were not applicable to other breeds.4 In each of these situations, one breed of dog has been singled out as "inherently dangerous to society," regardless of the individual dogs' present or past behavior.5

While this paper will focus on BSL as pertaining to dogs, it is important to note that similar laws have been applied to other animals.6 For example, historically some municipalities have banned potbellied pigs from the city limits or heavily regulated them, claiming that they are farm animals rather than pets.7 Goats have also been the target of restrictive legislation.8

Proponents of these laws cite a number of reasons for supporting breed-specific regulations. For example, Peg Jordan, an Oakland, California resident, was mauled by a dog recently, and spent several days in the hospital with more surgery in the future.9 Although she owns two German Shepherd Dogs, which are members of a breed that has been tagged "dangerous" by some, she argues that dog owners rationalize their dogs' conduct, and that she is fed up with dog owners who intend their dogs to be "fuzzy guns."10

In Fort Lauderdale, Florida, a legislative committee is considering a bill that would allow Broward County locales to ban specific breeds of dogs from public areas.11 The Fort Lauderdale community has become concerned about "intimidating pit bulls" on the beachfront which are "scaring 'family' tourists." A state representative told committee members that in 1999, Broward County was the site of 115 pit bull dog bites. The bill's proponents view the legislation as a means for reducing the pit bull threat, while the opponents state that the law would be unenforceable and unfair . . . [and that] the bill doesn't limit the types of breeds that could be restricted."12

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:12 pm

Ooh...Jives...I gotta go with you on the Roy and tiger bit. No person, no matter how "experienced", has the right to keep wild animals as pets. They are asking to be killed.

However...banning pit bulls is NOT the answer. I am fully aware of the stats and the numbers of people killed by these dogs. I have not denied that for one second. The problem does not lie with the breed, though. When properly bred and raised, in loving homes with owners who know how to treat this dog, a pit bull can be a wonderful pet. Is it for anyone? Absolutely not. Neither is a Mastiff, or a Pomeranian. Education, knowledge, and firm and CORRECT training and handling is the answer. Too many people buy dogs based on what they look like. When what they should be doing is buying/adopting based on their lifestyle and family. What needs to be done is not ban the breed, but restrict the breeding. Anyone with a male and a female pit bull thinks they have the proper tools to breed them. 99.9% of them don't.

I have to get ready for work now, and damn I wish I didn't, but when I get home tonight, I'll post more info on this for you Jives.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:13 pm

Fatal Dog Attacks Ã¢â‚¬“ Where it all begins

*These statistics cover a twenty-year period from 1979 to 1998 and no further, due to lack of data.

In 1997-1998 there were a total of 27 deaths across the nation from dog bites. During these two years, Rottweilers and Rottweiler crossbreeds were responsible for 12 of these deaths (44.4%), and pit bull-type dogs were involved in 6 (22.2%). These two breeds account for approximately 67% of all dog-bite related fatalities in 1997-1998. (1)

Over a twenty-year period (1979 Ã¢â‚¬“ 1998), the total of pit-bull related deaths equals 66 (28%), the highest percentage compared to other breeds. Since 1993, however, Rottweilers have consistently been involved in more deaths than any other breed. (1)

From this data it could be inferred that pit bulls are more dangerous and deadly than most other breeds of dogs, and indeed, most allegations to that effect are based on these very statistics.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:26 pm

All 4 of my Rottweilers were sweethearts. Three died of lymphoma before they were 5 and one died from eating hyacinth (sp) flower bulbs. We got a kitten when one of them was 3 and she used to carry the kitten around in its mouth. We tell her "Drop it" and she'd gently put the kitten down - non the worse for wear if not a bit wet from dog slobber. She did accidently drown the hamster by carrying it around it her mouth.

On the subject of pitbulls - I did have 2 put down for killing our rabbits. I was afraid the kids would be next. They weren't even my dogs. I had offered to take care of them for a week for their owners. The animal control officers told me I was right in my concerns for my kids.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:24 pm

Jives, and anyone else interested, please take a minute to look at these sites and get a better undertanding of these dogs.

www.badrap.org/rescue/

www.workingpitbull.com

www.realpitbull.com

pina · Post by **pina** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:10 pm

BabyRider wrote: Jives, and anyone else interested, please take a minute to look at these sites and get a better undertanding of these dogs.

www.badrap.org/rescue/

www.workingpitbull.com

www.realpitbull.com

Interesting sites on Pit Bulls, enjoyed looking at them.

They are beautiful dogs and I'm sure like children if brought up properly they should'nt be a problem. Any dog can be trained to be what you want it to be.

--Here is two different instances of dogs that I know.--

We have huge pit bulls for police dogs here so they must be well trained for their jobs.

I also have a neighbor who has a pit bull that is so soft and friendly, he just sits and lets two african grey parrots sit with him and sometimes bite or is it peck at him. not once have I heard him growl.

I have a beagle which I was surprised to see on one of the sites was quite high up in the ATT results. She doesn,t have a bad bone in her body and I cant imagine her biting or even growling at anyone. I'm sure if a burglar came in my house she would lick them to death.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:05 pm

BR - I have nothing against pitbulls - I think the ones I caretook were TRAINED to attack with rabbits. Most attack dogs are trained with rabbits - go figure.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:13 pm

Any dog that is trained to attack anything is a danger. Their prey drive kicks in at the slightest provocation. I'm glad that even after your bad experience you still know that the dogs themselves are not to blame.

As an afterthought: "Proper" attack dogs (ie: police K-9's) are not trained with rabbits. They are trained, PROPERLY using human decoys, protected by bite suits and are trained to only attack on command, not on sight. (I know you are probably aware of that, nvalleyvee, just clarifying for others who may not be. :yh_bigsmi )

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:23 pm

Good sites you posted, BR! I'll be passing those on.

And please everyone don't forget, properly trained K-9's go home

with their handlers and families!

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:43 pm

BabyRider wrote: Any dog that is trained to attack anything is a danger. Their prey drive kicks in at the slightest provocation. I'm glad that even after your bad experience you still know that the dogs themselves are not to blame.

As an afterthought: "Proper" attack dogs (ie: police K-9's) are not trained with rabbits. They are trained, PROPERLY using human decoys, protected by bite suits and are trained to only attack on command, not on sight. (I know you are probably aware of that, nvalleyvee, just clarifying for others who may not be. :yh_bigsmi )

I was not clear BR - I did not know these pitbulls were trained for attacking - either in the ring or for the owners personal pleasure - they were trained by attacking rabbits. That is why they killed our pets. My friends were not forthcoming in the fact they had trained their pits for attack. They just scared the bejesus out of me because my kids were 6 years old.