Letter From An Atheist

[BHughesNC]

Letter from an atheist


"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

If you are reading this and are an atheist I want to tell you now that I do care about YOU. I do not want YOU to go to hell. Please click on the attachment to this post.

Bobby

Attached files

[Bryn Mawr]

BHughesNC;776405 wrote: Letter from an atheist


"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

If you are reading this and are an atheist I want to tell you now that I do care about YOU. I do not want YOU to go to hell. Please read the attachment to this post.

Bobby


The nub of the letter is the phrase highlighted, not the phrase after it.

[Mystery]

It's called free will. Not to mention basic human rights. You simply have the right to believe in what you choose to believe in, as do I.

[BHughesNC]

I am just doing what I feel my resposibility is.

When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

Bobby

[jones jones]

BHughesNC;776411 wrote: I am just doing what I feel my resposibility is.

When I say to the wicked, 'You shall surely die,' and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.

Bobby


jeez bob! lighten up dude! i know i said i'd defend your right to your opinion ... but i didn't think it was gonna be a nightly sermon! you're doing wot you feel is your responsibility ... cool .... but give us some good news man ... not this "you will surely die" and "die in his iniquity" stuff .... please

Jj

[BHughesNC]

jones jones;776428 wrote: jeez bob! lighten up dude! i know i said i'd defend your right to your opinion ... but i didn't think it was gonna be a nightly sermon! you're doing wot you feel is your responsibility ... cool .... but give us some good news man ... not this "you will surely die" and "die in his iniquity" stuff .... please



Jj


Sorry, I got a little defensive with all the "bigot, intolerant,witch stuff.





For the umpteenth time Mrs. Youngston came to her pastor to tell him, "I'm so scared! Joe says he's going to kill me if I continue to come to your church."



"Yes, yes, my child," replied the pastor, more than a little tired of hearing this over and over. "I will continue to pray for you, Mrs. Youngston. Have faith - the Lord will watch over you."



"Oh yes, he has kept me safe thus far, only....."



"Only what, my child?"



"Well, now he says if I keep coming to your church, he's going to kill YOU!"



"Well, now," said the pastor, "Perhaps it's time to check out that little church on the other side of town."



No more nightly sermons!



Bobby

[BHughesNC]

Soberhoho;776536 wrote: Bollox


Confused ?

[Pheasy]

BHughesNC;776558 wrote: Confused ?


I think you need to clarify the point you are making here. I have read your initial post several times and it can be taken in different ways :-6 I have to say when I first read it, I was a little upset, but decided not to post my response.

[weeder]

Death and dying. Fire brimstone and confusion, have never led anyone to anything. It is being in the company of someone peaceful, kind, and quiet that will lead a lost or troubled man to wonder. " What does this person know?

[Pheasy]

Jester;776580 wrote: I see the posts here on this thread and I appreciate the views actually but can I remind folks this is the forum for christianity and the OP placed his info here for a reason.

If your going to jump on him for it I understand, but, with it being placed here in the christinaity forum, I wouldnt consider that he's trying to bash it over anyones head.

Had he placed it in the middle of the general chitchat area, well then thats another story al together.


Good point Jester. Are you saying that anything posted in the Christianity forum is for Christians only? And non-believers or people who question all, or part of its beliefs, should not be posting here. I think we need a moderator to clarify this point.

I usually get ignored in the religious threads. Except for Ted .... Ted is always happy to talk/discuss issues in a friendly/non-judgmental manner - Ted rocks!!

:-6:-6

[Chezzie]

yes Jester your point is valid and well done, however the OP posted a letter from the atheist in a Christian faith forum...Seems to me hes asking us ATHEISTS to respond to it so maybe it would of been better posted in general.

If you are reading this and are an atheist I want to tell you now that I do care about YOU. I do not want YOU to go to hell. Please click on the attachment to this post.


Im not a sinner and I dont need saving :-6

I have a belief which has never let me down as Its ME:-6

[spot]

BHughesNC;776405 wrote: If you are reading this and are an atheist I want to tell you now that I do care about YOU. I do not want YOU to go to hell.But why don't you, Bobby? You're jacking up the numbers in Heaven, is that it? The bigger the proportion of the dead who end up saved, the more God wins and Satan loses?

I'm in a curious position over this in that I'm a Christian and I genuinely want nothing at all to do with Heaven, not ever. I reject it, I loathe the very notion of it and I spit on any sense of God which could countenance the idea of such a wicked way to organize His creation. In any line-up of sheep and goats on any Judgement Day I'm with Satan, I absolutely demand to go to hell and have nothing to do with that patriarchal God-monster you're describing.

As a guideline for holy living and holy dying the life of Jesus is the greatest example anyone's ever produced. Following it is an astounding, creative and productive process. Applying it to anyone at all other than to oneself is a complete abuse, a shocking betrayal and a dreadful wickedness and you were warned not to, repeatedly, by the man himself. The only way I can possibly react, as a Christian, to what you're trying to do is to fight you.

Now, have a good think about that, try a prayer or two and decide how you want to discuss the issues I've raised.

[jones jones]

Jester;776580 wrote: I see the posts here on this thread and I appreciate the views actually but can I remind folks this is the forum for christianity and the OP placed his info here for a reason.

If your going to jump on him for it I understand, but, with it being placed here in

the christinaity forum, I wouldnt consider that he's trying to bash it over anyones head.

Had he placed it in the middle of the general chitchat area, well then thats another story al together.




point taken jester ... however one could then argue ... and i know this is

ludicrous ... that if you have no kids or family then you shouldn't post in that forum

or if you don't like poetry likewise ...

Jj

[spot]

Jester, be reasonable, the OP is a proselytizing text explicitly aimed at non-Christians. Are you suggesting it should be protected from criticism? By all means if an opening post is directed at a given subset of the membership then it would be polite of others to respect the request of the original poster but this opening post is AIMED at atheists! "If you are reading this and are an atheist I want to tell you now that I do care about YOU. I do not want YOU to go to hell" - how on earth is that not an invitation to non-Christians to engage with the thread? Where do you get "I wouldnt consider that he's trying to bash [Christianity] over anyone's head" from? What do his words say?

[mikeinie]

Here is the thing:

Christianity

Protestant

Anglican

Methodist

Muslem

Jewish

Buddhist

Hindus

Sikhs

Atheists

Everyone believes the other guy is wrong. Odds are 1 in 10 vs the major world religions that you could be getting it all wrong and go to hell anyway.

Religion is a belief system, it requires belief in the religion that you are usually taught or indoctrinated into.

Your argument is based on fear. You are saying that because we should be afraid of eternal damnation that we should believe specifically in your religion. What about the positive stuff, ever lasting life, love of God. I can’t believe your sales pitch is based on fear alone and that you are trying to save me from hell.

So what if you re wrong? What if Jesus was only a profit and not the son of God? That would mean that you have been in direct violation of the 1st commandment which is ‘Thou shalt have no other God before me’, yet you are saying that the ‘only way to God’ is through Jesus, that puts him before God. Could be a ticket to hell, be careful.

Let me keep it simple. I am a good person. I treat those around me (of all race and religion) with respect. I take care of my environment the best I can, and I raise my kids to Love life and be good responsible citizens of the planet earth.

If in the end that is not good enough or any God, then hell couldn’t be much worse anyway. I will take my changes.

Thanks Anyhow.

[Richard Bell]

BHughesNC;776405 wrote: Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true.


That's a very big "if" for many of us.

[Pheasy]

Jester;776787 wrote: Well its a good thing I have or like all those thinsg then huh!:wah:


I don't think he's here Hun. He's busy gate-crashing the Needlework forum

[spot]

Jester;776765 wrote: the passerby can decide to come in or not, by entering he knows hes in a place that is about christianity. All I'm making is the appeal to the understanding that christinaity is commonly spoken here, This is the place for it.


People didn't come into the Christianity area and then find this thread, they found this thread because it's on the home page under "Today's Posts". Nobody's decided firstly to come into Christianity or not and then subsequently discovered the appeal to atheists, the appeal to atheists has gone outside of the area and bitten the entire membership. The only way people can react to that attack - and, please go back and read it, it *is* an attack - is to post on the thread. I doubt whether anyone's gone into Christianity to do that, they've clicked on Reply.

[mikeinie]

spot;776793 wrote: People didn't come into the Christianity area and then find this thread, they found this thread because it's on the home page under "Today's Posts". Nobody's decided firstly to come into Christianity or not and then subsequently discovered the appeal to atheists, the appeal to atheists has gone outside of the area and bitten the entire membership. The only way people can react to that attack - and, please go back and read it, it *is* an attack - is to post on the thread. I doubt whether anyone's gone into Christianity to do that, they've clicked on Reply.


Very true, I didn’t even look at the category. Besides it is entitled ‘Letter from an Atheist’. It is clearly not written by an Atheist.

[spot]

mikeinie;776798 wrote: Besides it is entitled ‘Letter from an Atheist’. It is clearly not written by an Atheist.
I'd be interested to hear Bobby account honestly for the origin of the "letter", it has all the hallmarks of an Aunt Sally to me.



(The term is often used metaphorically to mean something that is a target for criticism. In particular, referring to the fairground origins, an Aunt Sally would be "set up" deliberately to be subsequently "knocked down", usually by the same person who set the person up.)

[spot]

Jester;776799 wrote: Well there you have it folks...

A Moderator has clarified, all threads posted to the front page are an invitation to counter attack at will. If you want a view from a moderator then, as a moderator, I'll give a view. I don't think I've done that up until now though, I think I've been expressing an opinion no more and no less than the other contributors to the thread. I do accept that there's a degree of controversy as to whether a person who has moderator rights to the site can also express opinions on it in that way, by all means continue that discussion as well if you want to.

Anyway - a moderator speaks: In this paragraph, and only this paragraph, I speak wearing a Moderator's hat and I do it because I've been asked for my view on Pheasy's question "Are you saying that anything posted in the Christianity forum is for Christians only?", as extended since by Jester. I think it's very important that anyone on FG can put any thread into any area, especially this area, and (if they want to) to state their very specific reason for their thread. The more the original post asks for a restricted discussion of a specific question the more the other contributors should pay attention to the request. I cannot imagine any moderator ever acting against anyone for expressing any opinion in any thread but civility has its place too and it's on a basis of civility that I argue this position. What comes within the scrutiny of moderation is a consideration of whether posts go beyond expressing an opinion and "harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest", or is "obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws", or "disrupts peace and harmony" with a special reference to an attempt to "create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute".

[jones jones]

ThePheasant;776792 wrote: I don't think he's here Hun. He's busy gate-crashing the Needlework forum


who me???

[jones jones]

spot;776793 wrote: People didn't come into the Christianity area and then find this thread, they found this thread because it's on the home page under "Today's Posts". Nobody's decided firstly to come into Christianity or not and then subsequently discovered the appeal to atheists, the appeal to atheists has gone outside of the area and bitten the entire membership. The only way people can react to that attack - and, please go back and read it, it *is* an attack - is to post on the thread. I doubt whether anyone's gone into Christianity to do that, they've clicked on Reply.


jeez! i so HATE agreeing with anything SPOT posts but .... here he's SPOT on!

Jj

[jones jones]

Jester;776799 wrote: Well there you have it folks...

A Moderator has clarified, all threads posted to the front page are an invitation to counter attack at will.



Enjoy, but please carefully consider the collateral damage before you do so, some one might come along and do a cluster interview and extrapilate the damage and attempt to hold you accountable in an internatinal court.:wah:


huh? say wot???

[YZGI]

spot;776823 wrote: If you want a view from a moderator then, as a moderator, I'll give a view. I don't think I've done that up until now though, I think I've been expressing an opinion no more and no less than the other contributors to the thread. I do accept that there's a degree of controversy as to whether a person who has moderator rights to the site can also express opinions on it in that way, by all means continue that discussion as well if you want to.



Anyway - a moderator speaks: In this paragraph, and only this paragraph, I speak wearing a Moderator's hat and I do it because I've been asked for my view on Pheasy's question "Are you saying that anything posted in the Christianity forum is for Christians only?", as extended since by Jester. I think it's very important that anyone on FG can put any thread into any area, especially this area, and (if they want to) to state their very specific reason for their thread. The more the original post asks for a restricted discussion of a specific question the more the other contributors should pay attention to the request. I cannot imagine any moderator ever acting against anyone for expressing any opinion in any thread but civility has its place too and it's on a basis of civility that I argue this position. What comes within the scrutiny of moderation is a consideration of whether posts go beyond expressing an opinion and "harrass, insult, belittle, threaten or flame another member or guest", or is "obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, racist, sexist, discriminatory, or otherwise violative of any local or international laws", or "disrupts peace and harmony" with a special reference to an attempt to "create meaningless threads with the sole purpose of starting a dispute".



Ruh Roh, this could mean trouble for ole wisey. must be careful, must be careful

[spot]

Jester;776867 wrote: and go against authority? :-3


Purely for the record here, have I ever gone anywhere near you or your posts in a moderating capacity? I don't believe I have.

I'd quite like to stick to the topic, strangely enough, but we need our evangelist in order to be able to do that. He's going to dissect Aunt Sally in public for us.

[Pheasy]

Yes, I would also like BH to get back here and explain :yh_wait

[Chezzie]

rjwould;776777 wrote: Great post, Chezzie....but I didn't know you are an atheist...That's quite a statement..


Your right Rj, sometimes im unsure of what I am exactly. I dont believe the bible and I dont have a certain god or religion. I just believe in Me...So if you know what "category" to slot me in id be happy to hear it..I chose athiest as it semed best fitting.

[BHughesNC]

spot;776683 wrote: Following it is an astounding, creative and productive process. Applying it to anyone at all other than to oneself is a complete abuse, a shocking betrayal and a dreadful wickedness and you were warned not to, repeatedly, by the man himself.




I am not applying it to anyone else. I cannot apply it. I am only following a commission to tell others about it.



As for you as a "Christian" siding with the devil consider this:

Matthew 12:



25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad. 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.



God Bless!

[Chezzie]

rjwould;777041 wrote: "Just Me" is cool with me....Perhaps a humanist is fitting in a world that needs categories. Many people have problems with using atheist as a category, I don't because Atheists are usually pretty smart.

However, after seeing Lon is a humanist, I would not mind his company either..


Thanks RJ, ill look more into the humanist approach:-6

[BHughesNC]

Man, I guess I have really taken a bashing while at work. I did not go away. I would never post and run. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. It seems this letter has touched a few cords.



First, let me say the letter was posted to the Christianity forum because it is intended to educate Christians as to the way some atheists feel about Christians that want to just feel secure in their faith while others (IMHO) die and go to hell. We, if we believe what we preach should be shouting it from the roof tops.



Second, it was not a plant to get attention from other atheists. Although I am glad it did.



Please let me say I feel as strongly about my beliefs as any of you do., I will respect your right to have an opinion and to express it, to me or to the world.



If I have broken any forum rules I hope a moderator will let me know.



I am not some Aunt "whoever". I do not go to needlework forums whem I'm not here.



Gotta go I have to work at 6 am. Bobby

[Pheasy]

BHughesNC;777140 wrote: Man, I guess I have really taken a bashing while at work. I did not go away. I would never post and run. I am not ashamed of anything I have posted. It seems this letter has touched a few cords.



First, let me say the letter was posted to the Christianity forum because it is intended to educate Christians as to the way some atheists feel about Christians that want to just feel secure in their faith while others (IMHO) die and go to hell. We, if we believe what we preach should be shouting it from the roof tops.



Second, it was not a plant to get attention from other atheists. Although I am glad it did.



Please let me say I feel as strongly about my beliefs as any of you do., I will respect your right to have an opinion and to express it, to me or to the world.



If I have broken any forum rules I hope a moderator will let me know.



I am not some Aunt "whoever". I do not go to needlework forums whem I'm not here.



Gotta go I have to work at 6 am. Bobby


So you are not available for commment right now?

[BHughesNC]

ThePheasant;777141 wrote: So you are not available for commment right now?


I can hang around another few minutes

[Pheasy]

Sheesh!!!

[spot]

Personally I'd quite like to discuss the reality or otherwise of James D. Franz, because he's the Aunt Sally I was talking about and I think Ray Comfort invented him as a foil to his evangelical genius. I'm not impressed at all by that sort of skulduggery, I think it's pretty cheap. When I say invented here, I mean as much as anything by heavy heavy editing and a refusal to allow editorial oversight on what Ray Comfort chose to show. Or, of course, plain invention, that fits the tone just as effectively. It is, of course, impossible to ask Ray Comfort what the truth of the matter is.

Anyway, that's the Aunt Sally - setting up a straw man just so you can show off by knocking him over. He's not real, his arguments are bogus.

[Chezzie]

why is it so cut and dried that non christians die and go to hell???

If being a christian is so blickered, im glad Im not practicing that faith...

As a non believer, I dont believe that christians die and go to hell.

[Chezzie]

I just googled this topic and wondered what you make of this view?

Letter From An Atheist



"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."

This is an excerpt from an e-mail sent to Evangelist Ray Comfort of Living Waters.

[yaaarrrgg]

Bobby, your God seems a bit abusive to me.

I mean, let's suppose that I tie you up to a chair and give you two options ... to love me, or to be tortured. Isn't that kinda weird? I don't think you really could love anyone that gave you that choice ... although perhaps you could develop Stockholm Syndrome and mistake it for affection.

The idea of necessity as applied to God is also odd. Are you saying God has no choice but to torture people (or allow the torture of people) that reject him? That he can't control himself, or that he can't change the way the overall system operates. How then is he all-powerful and all-loving?

Hell's got to frustrate the hell out of him ... sitting there helplessly as people suffer. Or does he enjoy it?

Come to think of it, your God kinda sounds evil.

[spot]

BHughesNC;777140 wrote: It seems this letter has touched a few cords.I find the so-called letter utterly repugnant and the man who presented it to the world (and, in my opinion, wrote it in the first place) - Ray Comfort - to be a disgusting egotist on a power-trip.

My argument with you, on the other hand, is that you repudiated my Christian credentials earlier in the thread by describing me as a Christian in inverted commas. I utterly refute that insult. The god you try to describe is an evil malignant warping of the Christian message and nobody should be influenced by your point of view. Nothing is more harmful to Christianity than this so-called evangelism you're attempting. Christianity is a wonderful gift to the world, it is a way to approach God that is meaningful and deep but it doesn't map in the slightest with what you're trying to portray.

I do hope you're interested enough or committed enough to seek common ground between these two poles of Christianity. You came here, you had an agenda that brought you here, let's try to bring it to a conclusion. We might both benefit in the process.

[Chezzie]

rjwould;777295 wrote: Heres another letter or blog from an atheist...

Part One

Part Two


this made me chuckle from above link

I'll say this... atheists are on the rise, and not enough of them are nypmhomaniacs for my taste. Or at least not the handsome furry gay male ones. Dammit.


Hope my laughing doesnt condemn me to hell AGAIN :sneaky: