I need some perspective.

[Accountable]

My brother is out of work, out of luck, and generally out of his mind. He has substance abuse issues that keep him from holding down a job, and now he is several months behind on his mortgage. Should I help?

“How can you even ask such a question?” I can hear the question you ask. Yes, he’s my brother. Yes, he needs my help. And even though I am currently unemployed, I could probably afford to give him one or two months’ payments so he can keep his house. But is that helping, or just delaying the inevitable? :-5

None of us are young. I’m in my 40’s and am the baby of the family. My brother – let’s call him Tad because it sounds preppy – is in his late 40’s and is single. His house is a shack that would have blown down long ago if the neighboring trees hadn’t blocked the wind. I can’t help but feel that giving him money would do nothing to improve his life. He would not be able to take advantage of an opportunity because of it. He would only be able to maintain status quo for a little longer.

Am I a stingy putz? I’d appreciate disinterested feedback.

[lady cop]

you're not stingy...enabling is not necessarily helping. i have discovered that people tend to stay on their path. just my opinion of course.

[Peg]

The best help you can give him is not helping him. Easier said than done though.

[Wwone2]

I think the best help you can give him is to talk to him and tell him that you want

to take him to rehab. I do not know how hard this intervention will be but I would try it. Perhaps you can get a friend/relative to help you with such a project.

In my opinion, the biggest gift you can give him is a clean life. If he decides to get help, then you can decide whether or not to pay his mortgage for a couple of months. ..just a thought.

[weeder]

Accountable wrote: My brother is out of work, out of luck, and generally out of his mind. He has substance abuse issues that keep him from holding down a job, and now he is several months behind on his mortgage. Should I help?

“How can you even ask such a question?” I can hear the question you ask. Yes, he’s my brother. Yes, he needs my help. And even though I am currently unemployed, I could probably afford to give him one or two months’ payments so he can keep his house. But is that helping, or just delaying the inevitable? :-5

None of us are young. I’m in my 40’s and am the baby of the family. My brother – let’s call him Tad because it sounds preppy – is in his late 40’s and is single. His house is a shack that would have blown down long ago if the neighboring trees hadn’t blocked the wind. I can’t help but feel that giving him money would do nothing to improve his life. He would not be able to take advantage of an opportunity because of it. He would only be able to maintain status quo for a little longer.

Am I a stingy putz? I’d appreciate disinterested feedback.I have the identical situation going on with my youngest son. He is bleeding me dry. I cant seem to stop helping him. Detaching is easier said than done. I am a work aholic... he doesnt seem to want to work at all.. But when he calls me and tells me he doesnt have money for food.... I suffer like a dog. There is no easy answer to your dilemma. It takes a lot of soul searching to come up with something you can live with.

[Lon]

Don't enable. Given his age, it's not likely that he will change. He is the only one that can bring about a change and he may have to hit total rock bottom before that happens, if at all.

[Philadelphia Eagle]

Lon wrote: Don't enable. Given his age, it's not likely that he will change. He is the only one that can bring about a change and he may have to hit total rock bottom before that happens, if at all.


Agree 100%

[nvalleyvee]

Accountable wrote: My brother is out of work, out of luck, and generally out of his mind. He has substance abuse issues that keep him from holding down a job, and now he is several months behind on his mortgage. Should I help?

“How can you even ask such a question?” I can hear the question you ask. Yes, he’s my brother. Yes, he needs my help. And even though I am currently unemployed, I could probably afford to give him one or two months’ payments so he can keep his house. But is that helping, or just delaying the inevitable? :-5

None of us are young. I’m in my 40’s and am the baby of the family. My brother – let’s call him Tad because it sounds preppy – is in his late 40’s and is single. His house is a shack that would have blown down long ago if the neighboring trees hadn’t blocked the wind. I can’t help but feel that giving him money would do nothing to improve his life. He would not be able to take advantage of an opportunity because of it. He would only be able to maintain status quo for a little longer.

Am I a stingy putz? I’d appreciate disinterested feedback.


I had a bro in the same situation when he called me and asked for his mortgage payment. I told him I would pay it BUT he had to give me the name and address of the mortgage company and his account number because I would send the money straight to them. He got MAD and said "never mind". Helping is one thing - giving to someone - family or not - is another matter. Think about it.

[cars]

Accountable wrote: My brother is out of work, out of luck, and generally out of his mind. He has substance abuse issues that keep him from holding down a job, and now he is several months behind on his mortgage. Should I help?

“How can you even ask such a question?” I can hear the question you ask. Yes, he’s my brother. Yes, he needs my help. And even though I am currently unemployed, I could probably afford to give him one or two months’ payments so he can keep his house. But is that helping, or just delaying the inevitable? :-5

None of us are young. I’m in my 40’s and am the baby of the family. My brother – let’s call him Tad because it sounds preppy – is in his late 40’s and is single. His house is a shack that would have blown down long ago if the neighboring trees hadn’t blocked the wind. I can’t help but feel that giving him money would do nothing to improve his life. He would not be able to take advantage of an opportunity because of it. He would only be able to maintain status quo for a little longer.

Am I a stingy putz? I’d appreciate disinterested feedback.


Brother or not, at his age he has chosen to follow his life's path on his own, without your help. You mentioned that you are unemployed yourself, so money may eventually become short for you also. So you need to worry about taking care of yourself, as no one else is going to. "His Shack" is not worth saving from what you said, so why should you spend your money for him to keep it for another month? It sounds like Rehab house is the place where he should live.

It would be the best place for the both of you! (Just my disinterested opinion)

[turbonium]

I can give you first hand experience. My brother is about the same age as yours is, and he too had a substance abuse problem. I bailed him out of money problems on and off many times over the past few years, which allowed him at least to barely hang on to his job and pay his rent . Well, he turned himself around eight months ago - he went to rehab and is clean, and he has returned to his job with a promotion thanks to a very generous and patient employer. He has been paying me back with small but steady payments.

I'm so happy I helped him out through his darkest hour (or I should say darkest "years":rolleyes: ) - it took a long time but it was 100% worth it in the end. I just could not sit by and watch him lose his job and home as a "lesson". I think the fact he WAS older actually helped - with the extra maturity (in the 'been through all this before' sense) and the cold hard reality that he has run out of chances at his age to again find anywhere near the great job he has (he almost lost his job, which helped shock him into getting help).

Your situation certainly may differ in some aspects(such as the employment factor), so I'm not advising you to do this no matter what. All I can tell you is that it did all work out in my situation. Possibly, if he can get a "scare" by, for example, almost losing his house (but not losing it) that may motivate him through the fear of the consequences of not changing his lifestyle.

Good luck to you, hope it all turns out well! :-6

[Accountable]

Thanks for all the input, guys. Especially Turbo, giving a different point of view. As a trainer, I always start by asking “what is the objective?” Here, it’s more “what is my responsibility?”

Is it my responsibility to teach my older brother a lesson? Is it even my responsibility to help him get/keep shelter? This is the first time he has contacted me for help; he has asked our dad and older brother several times. Does this show a weakening resolve I can take advantage of? Should I take advantage of it, and how?

We are not as close as I would imagine many brothers are. I don’t recall even one conversation we have had deeper than family gossip. I am certain that any “advice” coming from baby bro’ would fall on deaf ears, at best, or even throw up a wall, at worst. We live a thousand miles apart, so face to face intervention is out of the question.

I’m considering recommending that he sell the house (he has no ties there I’m aware of) and meeting me in Texas where we can both start over (see my other thread in the Jobs forum).

Sending him a check would certainly make me feel better in the short run, but I truly feel we should hold ourselves accountable. I instinctively shy from taking the easy way out. On the other hand, getting a "hand out" from baby bro' may just be the thing to push him in the right direction.

Thoughts?

[Accountable]

flopstock wrote: have you asked dad and older brother for advice? is it possible that they have quit funding him, for a reason?

is he aware that you are unemployed right now? and yet he still comes to you and not dad or older brother?

i think there is more going on here and that perhaps a family conference is in order before anyone does anything.

just a thought

diane


I called. They haven't exactly quit. It's just embarrasing to return to the same trough too many times.

[BabyRider]

Hi Accountable...I really like your screen name and what it means. I read your post describing why it is "Accountable." Knowing that about you, I am surprised that you are even having a hard time reaching a decision here. Your brother needs to be held accountable for his actions, and providing him with an escape route every time he screws up his own life, all by himself, with no help from anyone, is only removing any accountability.

Being your brother I am sure this is a very difficult position to be in, and I am glad it's not me, but in the end don't you want what truly IS best for him? Being his crutch, his excuse not to succeed or at least get help, is not what is best for him. "Tough love." Remember that saying?

[turbonium]

I’m considering recommending that he sell the house (he has no ties there I’m aware of) and meeting me in Texas where we can both start over
I like that idea, accountable. It may be the way that to have personal family interaction he will feel more of a motivation to change his life. I'm the baby bro' as well, and found out later that my brother actually looked up to me almost as the big brother that helped him get back on his feet. I hope your brother takes it the right way...Best of luck to you.

[along-for-the-ride]

Have you ever heard of "tough love"?

Do not become an enabler for him.

It is his life, and his responsibility to enrich or destroy it. He is a grown man.

I know you love him, but only assist when he finally decides to help himself for real.

This is just my humble opinion.

[Accountable]

I came across this old thread looking for something else, and thought I'd give an update. I didn't send money. My brother found out that he had major foundation issues with the house that would cost a fortune to fix, so he cut his losses & walked away from it. He dropped off the radar for over a year then showed up on my father's doorstep. No job. No money. Diagnosed with COPD & a list of medical problems from decades of abuse. He signed on with some program there that gave him a place, money, & medical. He never stopped drinking or smoking, even though he had to stay strapped to oxygen.

They found him lying face down in his front yard, dead, apparently returning from the grocery store. I felt guilty that I didn't feel much. I called my siblings, figuring we'd all meet at the funeral & would need to split the costs for one sister who couldn't afford the travel. None of them was going. Not one. I didn't want to go, either. He had cut himself out of our lives long ago. Our father had him cremated, no service.

Call your siblings. Keep in touch.

[Ahso!]

Some of us are just not well suited to the cultural myth we've fashioned. We try! Most of us make it through and some don't. Some die in the process of figuring it out, your brother sound like one of those. Alcohol, because of our permissive attitude of it's use, may very well be our single worse enemy, it's side effects damage our ability to counter emotion with reason. That's a delicate balance which survival is heavily dependent on.

Sorry for your loss.

[spot]

COPD isn't something that goes away or improves, it's a downhill damage-mitigation nightmare. The longer you're spun out the worse your life gets. At its untreated worst it's what waterboarding emulates, I'm not convinced that even being unconscious provides complete relief. I can easily believe that someone reliant on an oxygen cylinder might choose to accelerate his departure with cigarettes and alcohol.

I reckon summing up a persons tale of years on a linear basis is a mistake. Getting to 80 isn't twice as satisfying as getting to 40. What you get out of 5 to 10 is equivalent to what you get out of 10 to 20, or 20 to 40, or 40 to senility. Crashing at 50 isn't a personal catastrophe. Sometimes it's hard on those left behind, sometimes it's not. Did your brother avoid leaving a lot of pain to share around? It sounds as though he might have. Maybe there's some credit in that. Anyone who can get to a point where they can honestly say thank Christ that's all done with has lived a full lifetime.

Is there a family photo archive you could digitize and pass around? That, with notes and memories, might help.

[Nomad]

Rough road for your brother. It saddens me to hear of the way he was found.

Ive been doing some re-connecting with this group lately. Ive got some more work to do and your post motivated me.

[Peg]

Accountable;1353101 wrote: I came across this old thread looking for something else, and thought I'd give an update. I didn't send money. My brother found out that he had major foundation issues with the house that would cost a fortune to fix, so he cut his losses & walked away from it. He dropped off the radar for over a year then showed up on my father's doorstep. No job. No money. Diagnosed with COPD & a list of medical problems from decades of abuse. He signed on with some program there that gave him a place, money, & medical. He never stopped drinking or smoking, even though he had to stay strapped to oxygen.

They found him lying face down in his front yard, dead, apparently returning from the grocery store. I felt guilty that I didn't feel much. I called my siblings, figuring we'd all meet at the funeral & would need to split the costs for one sister who couldn't afford the travel. None of them was going. Not one. I didn't want to go, either. He had cut himself out of our lives long ago. Our father had him cremated, no service.

Call your siblings. Keep in touch.


I'm sorry ACC. Whether you sent money or not, would not change the outcome. I am thankful every day that I have a close family.

[Peg]

Nomad;1353124 wrote: Rough road for your brother. It saddens me to hear of the way he was found.

Ive been doing some re-connecting with this group lately. Ive got some more work to do and your post motivated me.




Nice look bunch there Nomad. Glad you are reconnecting.

[LarsMac]

Accountable;1353101 wrote: I came across this old thread looking for something else, and thought I'd give an update. I didn't send money. My brother found out that he had major foundation issues with the house that would cost a fortune to fix, so he cut his losses & walked away from it. He dropped off the radar for over a year then showed up on my father's doorstep. No job. No money. Diagnosed with COPD & a list of medical problems from decades of abuse. He signed on with some program there that gave him a place, money, & medical. He never stopped drinking or smoking, even though he had to stay strapped to oxygen.

They found him lying face down in his front yard, dead, apparently returning from the grocery store. I felt guilty that I didn't feel much. I called my siblings, figuring we'd all meet at the funeral & would need to split the costs for one sister who couldn't afford the travel. None of them was going. Not one. I didn't want to go, either. He had cut himself out of our lives long ago. Our father had him cremated, no service.

Call your siblings. Keep in touch.


A sad, and far too common tale, these days.

I have a couple of nephews that are on that path, and nothing any of us have tried seems to get through to them.

With your permission, I would like to share some of the high (low) points of this discussion with them.

Don't know that it will help, but you never know what will until you try it.

[Accountable]

Nomad, I'm glad this has motivated you. And Lars, it's always worth a try, right?

[fuzzywuzzy]

Hmmmm you're making me rethink a few things. I've been slowly but surely disinfranchising myself from my family recently. To the point of disowning a few. My mother tells me I shouldn't and should be more forgiving and that I'm going down the path of an aunty who was found days after she died because she didn't keep in touch with anyone. But I've bent over backwards for members of my family and been hurt by it to the point where they've expected it.

hmmm maybe a second chance but I don't know.

BTW what's COPD?

[Kathy Ellen]

I'm so sorry about your brother Accountable. All of my thoughts and best wishes are with you and your family.

[Accountable]

fuzzywuzzy;1353267 wrote: Hmmmm you're making me rethink a few things. I've been slowly but surely disinfranchising myself from my family recently. To the point of disowning a few. My mother tells me I shouldn't and should be more forgiving and that I'm going down the path of an aunty who was found days after she died because she didn't keep in touch with anyone. But I've bent over backwards for members of my family and been hurt by it to the point where they've expected it.

hmmm maybe a second chance but I don't know.

BTW what's COPD?


http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/dci/Dis ... hatIs.html

[Snooz]

You shouldn't feel guilt for not feeling sorrow, he removed himself from your life... it was HIS choice. And dying face down in the front yard might sound horrific to the living but it was probably a quick release from what sounds like an unpleasant life. A merciful death, if you will.

[Accountable]

SnoozeAgain;1353298 wrote: You shouldn't feel guilt for not feeling sorrow, he removed himself from your life... it was HIS choice. And dying face down in the front yard might sound horrific to the living but it was probably a quick release from what sounds like an unpleasant life. A merciful death, if you will.
Thanks.

[BaghdadBob]

My sincere condolences to you and your family.



As others have alluded, you can't live other people's lives for them and agree that you have nothing to feel guilty about as the outcome would have been the same.



BTW, I've got a brother riding in that same boat.

[SnakeDoctor]

Yes, help him this one time. You told him you would help him only one time right? You also told him he must get a job and support himself soon after, right? Do you believe he will have a job 6 weeks from now? Neither do I. Give him money, after you give him money be prepared to support his lazy ass for another 30 years.

[Snowfire]

SnakeDoctor;1353530 wrote: Yes, help him this one time. You told him you would help him only one time right? You also told him he must get a job and support himself soon after, right? Do you believe he will have a job 6 weeks from now? Neither do I. Give him money, after you give him money be prepared to support his lazy ass for another 30 years.


Maybe reading the full thread from start to finish would give you a better perspective on how to deal with Accountable's dilemma.