i am going to say something controversial

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:45 pm

JacksDad;748153 wrote: Or a persons heritage and legacy is meaningless?

It is if you're a Hilton! :wah:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:48 pm

Sheryl;748145 wrote: Yes I understand. So you think the elite and rich shouldn't reproduce! :wah:

You lost me on that one.

JacksDad;748153 wrote: Or a persons heritage and legacy is meaningless?

Not at all. I just don't think those are good enough reasons to create another human being. I'd rather all children -ALL- were created as the supreme expression of love between two people. Anything else comes secondary.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:49 pm

I have to weigh in on your side L and M. I have KNOWN beyond a shadow

of a doubt that I never wanted children of my own since about age 18.

I thought I probably didn't a few years before that, but by 18 I was

positive.

A friend once used the phrase "library kids" with me and I really liked

that. You get them, you play with them, and when you're done, you

return them.

My best friend of 33 years died a little over 2 years ago. I now consider

her daughter and grandson to be my "honorary" daughter and grandson.

I love them both, so maybe I got the best of both worlds.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:51 pm

RedGlitter;748168 wrote: You lost me on that one.

.

Well it's usually the rich who have offspring to continue the family name and such.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:53 pm

RedGlitter;748168 wrote: Not at all. I just don't think those are good enough reasons to create another human being. I'd rather all children -ALL- were created as the supreme expression of love between two people. Anything else comes secondary.

Then does it make sense to breed a prize winning race horse in order to continue the lineage?

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:55 pm

I had four children and have devoted and sacrificed my life for them..i have no regrets..I am happy and sastisfied with my decisions

for others that dont have children...as long as you are happy...then that is all that matters...to each his or her own...

:-6life is a great adventure..we dont all take the same roads...

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:59 pm

JacksDad;748175 wrote: Then does it make sense to breed a prize winning race horse in order to continue the lineage?

Not to me it doesn't. Obviously in horse world it will but I don't believe in breeding animals to get another "like" them. They're all going to be different. Maybe they'll have some traits in common, but with horses as with kids, they're going to be just as much their own animal.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:02 pm

RedGlitter;748179 wrote: Not to me it doesn't. Obviously in horse world it will but I don't believe in breeding animals to get another "like" them. They're all going to be different. Maybe they'll have some traits in common, but with horses as with kids, they're going to be just as much their own animal.

But there is much to be said for genetics. As opposed to say, inbreeding which has proven disastrous results.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:15 pm

JacksDad;748183 wrote: But there is much to be said for genetics. As opposed to say, inbreeding which has proven disastrous results.

Can't argue with that (inbreeding being bad) be it animals or people. I'm sure the world wouldn't come to a halt if we let a few valuable horse lineages to peter out though and that's how I feel about humans too. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. I know you must have run into the sort of people I'm thinking of at some point. The ones where kids are just something you "do" and not necessarily something you truly want...anyone can have a kid but not just anyone can be a mom or dad.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:29 pm

True story. I have a friend who's daughter lives on the east coast and brother on the west.

When the west coast family get's pregnant, the east coast has to as well!

I told the daughter,"Just tell them that you're pregnant, dammit!"

:-5

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:44 pm

JacksDad;748194 wrote: True story. I have a friend who's daughter lives on the east coast and brother on the west.

When the west coast family get's pregnant, the east coast has to as well!

I told the daughter,"Just tell them that you're pregnant, dammit!"

:-5

You mean they do it just to keep up with each other?

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:41 pm

Yes. Just to keep up with each other.

I'm just sitting back waiting for the divorces.

What a show that's gonna be.

AussiePam · Post by **AussiePam** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:04 am

When I got married to someone I cared about we assumed we would have children - but I cannot remember having any of the kind of thoughts people have expressed here.. about breeding etc. I find all that horrifying and very distasteful... carrying on family names etc. Don't know where you are all coming from here at all. Such bitterness. A child was more the natural issue of our love for each other. I don't think anyone has spoken of such things here. So let me say it. My children have brought me both great sorrow and great joy. They are a part of my life, and I of theirs. I can't imagine my life without them.

BUT - this is personal. I have never ever considered that this was a better - or a worse - path than my sisters who for one reason or another do not have children. I made my choice - this involved infertility treatment, and loss of many career opportunities I would have had if I had chosen differently. I have no regrets about taking the mommy track, which was considered inferior by some of my work colleagues. It's swings and roundabouts. In life your choices bring both losses and gains - and that goes for all of us, in my opinion.

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:53 am

I knew I wanted children.

I was fortunate to have two lovely healthy babies.

Like Pam said they have caused sorrow & sadness.

But all the good things outweigh the sad.

Lemon & mint if you don't want to have children then that is your right.

At least you are honest about it.

Better not to have children at all,than have them & not want them.

Don't listen to others who insist you should have children.

Do what is best for you.:-4:-6

neffy · Post by **neffy** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:29 am

well lemon i to never wanted childern,but i did but i knew that i would never have have anymore as i knew in myself one was just for me.And i did not have any more my daughter shelley is now 20.

But like you with peoples reactions people thought i was being nasty not having anymore as my daughter would suffer loneless which is not ture,stick to what you beleive hun and thank you for being honest.When anyone gives you a shitty reaction just say yeah i will have one and then pass on the cost and every thing else that goes bringing up a child.

I would not be without my lovely daughter has she is my best friend but everyone to there own thats what i say.

littlemissgiggle · Post by **littlemissgiggle** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:41 am

I have heard this may times and it is your choice,

Why should you feel guilty,

I am not sure myself if i would like kids but maybe that will change,

but only when i am ready.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:12 am

I know many people that have chosen not to have children, I certainly don't see it as controversial or selfish. It's interesting L & M why you do? Is it literally because of the way society has treated you?

I also know some people with children and I wonder why on earth they bothered, they have no time for them at all

I have two and I am by no means a completely natural earth mother as my sister is with her four! I love them dearly and wouldn't have them any other way really, even when the going gets tough with the tantrums :wah:

kazalala · Post by **kazalala** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:53 am

All my children were planned and very much wanted. I always knew i wanted children, and my own personal feeling is there is no love stronger than a parent for their child. Pam hit the nail on the head with saying how they bring you great joy and great sorrow too, but i have never ever regretted having children.

Red I too was slightly narked at your comment about people who have kids are selfish, but after reading your explanations, i now understand what you mean, Some people do have children for the wrong reason, and that is selfish. Saying that, even if the reason wasnt the right one, as long as you love them and look after them and try to bring them up to be good and decent people, well thats ok by me:) But it is so sad and frustrating to see how some people treat their children. So that brings me to Lemons choice. I cant see any reason why you should have children Lemon, if you dont want them, I commend your honesty in saying you dont want them, and i honestly dont think that makes you a horrible person. No one should have children unless they are 100% sure.

along the line of relatives putting on pressure. I would be devastated if my children decided not to have any kids, but i would respect their choice and support them, as i can understand my wanting them to have them is selfish.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:07 am

Thank you for all your replies, all very honest.

I am as I siad beyond the age of having a child naturally now so it doesn't much matter aymore, but if I had been less sure of myself I am sure I would have children by now and perhaps regret it.

I do not think that having children is selfish, i do not think that not having children is selfish either.However the attitudes of people around me, sometimes complete strangers, on findingthat i di not want children have been negative towards me.

It was interesting to see that a person who did have a child them met the same reaction on saying that they did not want more than one child.

To me having a child is a personal choice, just like having a dog.If you want a dog and will love it, have one, if yu dont like dogs and do not think you will look after it very well, dont let other people talk you into by telling you how nice it is to have a dog.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:15 am

Land M .when my children were small i remember people asking why in the Hell would i have four children..they assumed i was doing it for selfish reasons..welfare or whatnot..i have never been on the welfare system..thank god..i was just following the path i was meant to be on...as you are...:-6

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:28 am

I think also that people feel threatened somehow by people who don't have kids. We are such a kid oriented society that no one can comprehend why for some, it's not the be-all end-all of it all. There are other parts to life. I always knew I did not want children enough to have them. I would have made a wonderful mother. I am a fabulous caregiver, babysitter, older person and I have mentored several children and teenagers. But....I am too busy in this lifetime raising my SELF to bring my own child into this often unpleasant world.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:05 am

Okay I got this figured out. You animal loving childless women are looking at this wrong. Just think of kids as being little monkey's that you have to change their diapers about 40 times a day. Problem solved, Now go out and breed yourselves some little monkey children.. I mean now... Go.. Go on..Breed like the wind.:wah:

pantsonfire321@aol.com · Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:07 am

lemon_and_mint;748427 wrote: Thank you for all your replies, all very honest.

I am as I siad beyond the age of having a child naturally now so it doesn't much matter aymore, but if I had been less sure of myself I am sure I would have children by now and perhaps regret it.

I do not think that having children is selfish, i do not think that not having children is selfish either.However the attitudes of people around me, sometimes complete strangers, on findingthat i di not want children have been negative towards me.

It was interesting to see that a person who did have a child them met the same reaction on saying that they did not want more than one child.

To me having a child is a personal choice, just like having a dog.If you want a dog and will love it, have one, if yu dont like dogs and do not think you will look after it very well, dont let other people talk you into by telling you how nice it is to have a dog.

Hey each to their own :-6. I think it's far more selfish to have a child if a person is not 100% committed to having it . I've seen many women just get pregnant because they were too lazy to use contraception . As long as YOUR HAPPY and fulfilled that's all that matters.:-6

suzycreamcheese · Post by **suzycreamcheese** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:51 am

I think its just a personal choice.

I think people are probably more likely to regret never having children, than having them (unless their kids are REALLY horrible) but its just down to the individual really. I sometimes wish I had no kids and no responsibilities, but then again they bring me a lot of joy as well.

Its just a different sort of life. Its a shame you cant mix and match.

I bet grandchildren are great for that!

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:55 am

well i hope i wont get to 70 and be alone and thinking i have no family, but hopefully i will still have friends alive at that stage.

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:03 am

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.

You are not at all a horrible person.I have a friend who is exactly the same,does not relate to kids at all,but adores animals.She is a lovely person.

I have always loved animals,When I was young,my friends took peoples babies for walks,I climbed trees.I was never interested in babies.I did not plan to have a child but when I got pregnant at twenty one,everything changed and I adored my children,but stopped at two as they were enough for me.I never realy thought about babies much as they got older,and had a succession of dogs to mother over the years.I have recently become a gran,and I am a old mother hen again.I suppose the point I am trying to make,is one day it is possible that you will change your mind,depending on your age.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:06 am

Mia;749582 wrote: You are not at all a horrible person.I have a friend who is exactly the same,does not relate to kids at all,but adores animals.She is a lovely person.

I have always loved animals,When I was young,my friends took peoples babies for walks,I climbed trees.I was never interested in babies.I did not plan to have a child but when I got pregnant at twenty one,everything changed and I adored my children,but stopped at two as they were enough for me.I never realy thought about babies much as they got older,and had a succession of dogs to mother over the years.I have recently become a gran,and I am a old mother hen again.I suppose the point I am trying to make,is one day it is possible that you will change your mind,depending on your age.

I always said I didnt want children but more cos im a wuss and hate pain, mother nature invened and I found out 4 months gone I was indeed expecting, a week of crying and horrendous labour but a beautiful daughter, so beautiful I gave her a sister 18 month later.......Adore my kids more than words can say but I love my dog too.......You can do both lol:wah:

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:29 am

all animals angel, i don't think there is an animal i don't like, except perhaps spiders, and alligators, because they just look like armoured killing machines with all those teeth.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:55 pm

lemon_and_mint;749528 wrote: well i hope i wont get to 70 and be alone and thinking i have no family, but hopefully i will still have friends alive at that stage.

I used to worry about that too, Lemon Friend, but it has since been proven to me that good friends have a way of becoming one's extended family.

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:15 pm

RedGlitter;749859 wrote: I used to worry about that too, Lemon Friend, but it has since been proven to me that good friends have a way of becoming one's extended family.

but even that isn't a good reason to have children, so that one won't be alone......

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:18 pm

Might I add.......

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:31 pm

lemon_and_mint;747846 wrote: I do not want to have children, i never wanted to have children, i want them to keep away from me.

Does this make me a horrible person?

Apparently it does.

I love animals.Lemony..........I never wanted wanted children and didnt have any.I had my reasons for this.Im not a lover of kids from what I see today, although I have to say that give me a nice unspoilt child they could have anything from me.Trouble is not many are like that today........which I guess is down to the parents. I forget the last time I heard a child call an older adult Aunt or Uncle and so much respect has been lost I feel by not doing so.I have 9 dogs and other animals and I adore them.My animals have tied me down most of my life in many ways but it was my choice to have them so thats down to me.Do I regret not having children?Yes sometimes if Im honest....but I guess for selfish reasons and thats not the right ones to have regrets over.In many ways I have led a very colourful life ..........also I have memories that will be with me forever........how different my life would have been with children.So you see Lemony your not a horrible person......cause hopefully Im not..........we are what we are and if people dont want you for who you are inside thats their problem darlin:rolleyes:;)

lemon_and_mint · Post by **lemon_and_mint** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:38 pm

Actually i did some years ago ask about fostering disadvantaged teens, i was turned down because of my own health problems and my (advanced to them) age at he time.

I think i could have really helped one.That was a bit of a shame with so many needing help.

Teens to me are not children, its young children i dont think i could deal with.Children old enough to talk, yes.

As for biological clock, it would be just my luck that mine was wound up wrong and is going slow, so that i'll wake up one day when i'm 106 with an insane urge to have a baby!!:wah:

Carolly · Post by **Carolly** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:43 pm

lemon_and_mint;749986 wrote: Actually i did some years ago ask about fostering disadvantaged teens, i was turned down because of my own health problems and my (advanced to them) age at he time.

I think i could have really helped one.That was a bit of a shame with so many needing help.

Teens to me are not children, its young children i dont think i could deal with.Children old enough to talk, yes.

As for biological clock, it would be just my luck that mine was wound up wrong and is going slow, so that i'll wake up one day when i'm 106 with an insane urge to have a baby!!:wah:Yer wouldnt get yer leg over..........be to painful:wah::wah::rolleyes:;)