Anti-Choice Bush Nominee

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:44 pm

For anyone who wants this information, this was in my email today:

Dear Terri,

President Bush nominated yet another staunch anti-choice activist for a lifetime appointment to the federal bench. And he’s counting on you not knowing about it! Help NARAL Pro-Choice America expose and defeat this anti-choice nominee.

Richard Honaker is one of Bush’s most unapologetically anti-choice nominees to date. As a state senator in Wyoming, he twice pushed legislation to ban legal abortion in nearly all circumstances.

When that failed, he led an effort to pass the measure - a near-total abortion ban - as a statewide ballot initiative. Honaker believes his conservative anti-choice beliefs and his interpretation of scripture trump established legal precedent—especially when it comes to individual liberty, the right to privacy, and a woman’s right to choose.

Now President Bush has nominated Richard Honaker for a lifetime appointment as a federal judge on a district court in Wyoming. This nominee doesn’t deserve consideration, and most certainly doesn’t deserve confirmation!

NARAL Pro-Choice America needs your immediate support to expose Honaker’s record on a woman’s right to choose. We must educate every member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and alert the media and the voting public. We must stop Bush from further stacking the federal courts with right-wing ideologues. Now is the time to make certain the Senate says “no to this radical nominee!

We cannot let Bush pacify his far-right base—at the expense of women’s rights. We deserve fair-minded judges who will apply the law without prejudice, and who will protect a woman’s constitutional right to choose.

Support our national campaign to expose Bush’s anti-choice nominee and protect the right to choose toda

Sincerely,

Nancy Keenan

President

NARAL Pro-Choice America

Snooze · Post by **Snooze** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:54 pm

Great, he's another bible thumper. :rolleyes:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:17 pm

I knew you would be, Jester. No hard feelings here. We just differ is all.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:34 pm

anti-choice activist

anti-choice activist

anti-choice activist

As opposed to

Pro-Choice

Pro-Choice

Pro-Choice

So the anti-choice activist is giving life a chance to continue to live

and the Pro-Choice person is NOT giving life a chance to stay alive...........

Now just a minute who is REALLY giving a choice here?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:23 pm

Don't know about the states but over here anti-abortion campaigners are usually anti sex education in the schools and if they had their way girls wouldn't have access to contraceptives either. countries where they start in primary school also have the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:38 pm

rjwould;744164 wrote: I don't quite understand your post. Countries that start 'what' in primary school?

Sorry, put it rather badly but it is friday night.

Sex education

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:40 pm

This is such a fine, shaky line I really don't think (or hope) that abortion should be illegal.....IMO I personally would not have one, but the point of Pro-Choice is exactly that! I do not believe the Govt. should have a say over whether a woman should have an abortion or not, each circumstance is different, a woman being raped, baby having major defects, etc. I definetly respect each sides opinion though....it gives the Govt way too much say in ones life, while we are all Governed some way or another, I refuse to let the Govt have a say in this at all! I do believe educating women/men on the subject is definetly the better choice, ofcourse unwanted pregnancies are still going to happen, I just think more can be done about it rather than just saying, "Your pregnant? Well by law you HAVE to have this baby" Also, who's to say that abortion may be preventing child abuse? Say a woman gets pregnant and has no desire to have the baby (my personal opinion is she shouldn't have sex) and the law forces her to have it, then she have extreme post partum depression, and abuses that baby or leaves it in a dumpster to freeze to death just because she didn't want the baby in the first place? Would you rather that or the alternative? If we do make abortion illegal, what do we do with all the unwanted children?

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:41 pm

This is a bit hypocrtitical of me, but I would rather the Govt. enforce sterilization than abortion control.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:58 pm

I don't believe in taking innocent human life. It doesn't matter to me how far along it is in development or growth.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:12 pm

rjwould;744225 wrote: There we go! Now were getting to the heart of it, aren't we? So, you want them to be born to serve your needs. People are nor resources, they are people..

My perfect mate may have been aborted, but I'll never know and neither will you.

So kill them all. One of them may be a Hitler.

Who gets to decide? Who owns a new human life and has the right to end it?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:12 pm

I get so tired of archaic attitudes like "don't have sex if you don't want a baby." It just goes to show me how little people understand about human nature. We've had this argument many times on here so for brevity's sake I'll just say I am firmly pro-choice in all cases and while I respect the right of others to hold a belief contrary to mine, I don't support them making the decision for anyone other than themselves.

RJWould, welcome to FG!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:16 pm

Clint;744232 wrote: So kill them all. One of them may be a Hitler.

Who gets to decide?

The one carrying the baby.

Who owns a new human life

God and the parents.

and has the right to end it?

The one carrying the baby.

I have expressed this opinion before to scathing replies mostly from men, so I'll probably catch heat for this here too but those are my personal answers to what may or may not have been a rhetorical question.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:23 pm

rjwould;744244 wrote: I agree. Sometimes it's hard to pass up an easy argument.

Thanks!:)

Easy for those doing the killing. Not so easy for those being killed.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:32 pm

Jester;744241 wrote: I think we can keep the discussion civil! :-4

Me too. You and I have always been able to disagree respectfully which makes for a nice discussion on some hard issues.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:37 pm

rjwould;744261 wrote: Besides life, what other rights do you extend to children after they are born?

I think the U.S. Constitution covers it pretty well.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:47 pm

rjwould;744274 wrote: I guess you mean, 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'?

Sure but not at another's expense when at all possible.

Would you think it was a good idea if I wanted to kill you because I thought you were going to make my life unhappy?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:05 pm

rjwould;744288 wrote: So, since you have decided that this child has chosen life, what if the child tell you at the age of six that he/she would be happier not going to school? Would you defend that right too?

Human life is what we are protecting. When the right to live is denied for one the value of life is degraded for all.

If the child didn't want to go to school, I as the parent with the child's future in mind, would insist the child go to school so it could be happy another day. The child may never be happy another day in its life but I have to assume it will be.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:12 pm

rjwould;744303 wrote: When combined with your posture on choice, does it not at least look like you're not interested in the child's rights at all, but rather your own? Is not a mothers decision to abort a fetus, the same concern as yours?

I'm sorry. I know that's what you want it to be but it isn't. Not everyone is as self centered as the one who would end a life because they think it would improve theirs.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:24 pm

rjwould;744314 wrote: You seem to be gifted in mind reading. How do you know mothers make the decision because they think it would improve their life? It is a fact that the majority of women who have abortions suffer from guilt due to cultural and religious upbringing, physical pain and even possibly long term effects.

Ya gotta help me here. Do you mean suffering from guilt or physical pain is a good reason to take a life?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:34 pm

rjwould;744318 wrote: My point was that most women make the decision to have an abortion in the face of very painful consequences.

So, you are saying that since most would, it is the right thing to do?

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:44 pm

rjwould;744328 wrote: This is getting tedious. Nice meeting you!!!

Paraphrased: "I don't want to answer the question."

Nice meeting you too. Welcome to Forum Garden.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:20 pm

"Necessary" doesn't always come in the form of right or wrong.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:18 am

Itsme;744099 wrote: As an outsider (from the UK) it is interesting to note the differences in choices here. I'll bet most of the no to abortion are men!

Sorta true........Unless the aborted life is a girl (who I am pretty sure would oppose being aborted)

also the only people that support ending a living being are the ones that were NOT aborted.......

What a concept

WEIRD huh?

The aborted fetuses never had a a chance to have a user name like yours:

"Itsme" because they never had a chance to be a me, like you !!!

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:46 am

rjwould;744253 wrote: Well, that is a personal philosophy. If it is what floats your boat, great! However, are you willing to accept others peoples personal philosophy that differ from yours and some that you even abhor?

So you want people to embrace a philosophy that takes a life..........ooooops I should have said "terminates" a life.............

Where is the choice here? You are suggesting I (we) accept something that goes against my (our) personal beliefs and up bringing.

Bottom line there is only 1 reason IMFO for an abortion a threat to a mothers life............

Cut and dry.

It is so weird how you so called pro choicers beg for the right of a person to end a life and then on the other hand p!ss and moan to keep a convicted murderer alive..........

Some choice huh?

History buff · Post by **History buff** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:48 am

rjwould;744274 wrote: I guess you mean, 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'?

That is a quote from the Declaration of Independence.

I know a little about Constitutional law and I do have a case in my notes that would correlate to this though:

p.399: (my bold tags)

The problem for our determination is whether the statute, as construed and applied, unreasonably infringes the liberty guaranteed to the plaintiff in error by the Fourteenth Amendment. "No State shall . . . deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

While this Court has not attempted to define with exactness the liberty thus guaranteed, the term has received much consideration and some of the included things have been definitely stated. Without doubt, it denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint, but also the right of the individual to contract, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge, to marry, establish a home and bring up children, to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience, and generally to enjoy those privileges long recognized at common law as essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.

http://supreme.justia.com/us/262/390/case.html

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 3:04 am

BTS;746465 wrote: So you want people to embrace a philosophy that takes a life..........ooooops I should have said "terminates" a life.............

Where is the choice here? You are suggesting I (we) accept something that goes against my (our) personal beliefs and up bringing.

Bottom line there is only 1 reason IMFO for an abortion a threat to a mothers life............

Cut and dry.

It is so weird how you so called pro choicers beg for the right of a person to end a life and then on the other hand p!ss and moan to keep a convicted murderer alive..........

Some choice huh?

Pro Choice has absolutley NOTHING to do with the ending a life or letting one live...it has to do with a woman having a choice about what she can do with her own body!!! The Govt should not have a say in that! AT ALL!!!!:mad: Might as well start rounding people up with tattoos, , then telling them its illegal...you can't get tattoos...we think your body is a temple...and blah blah blah...screw that! I'll be damned if someone tells me what to do with MY own body!

suzycreamcheese · Post by **suzycreamcheese** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:30 am

until a baby can survive independently of its mothers body, ihas no rights and certainly shouldnt have rights that override the peson carrying it.

Pregnancy and birth isnt a walk in the park, its damn hard graft and what it can do to a body physically and mentally can be pretty severe. Its one thing to go through that with a much wanted child, but its something else to force a woman to go through that when she neither wants it, or is ready to deal with it.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:04 am

drumbunny1;746635 wrote: Pro Choice has absolutley NOTHING to do with the ending a life or letting one live...it has to do with a woman having a choice about what she can do with her own body!!! The Govt should not have a say in that! AT ALL!!!!:mad: Might as well start rounding people up with tattoos, , then telling them its illegal...you can't get tattoos...we think your body is a temple...and blah blah blah...screw that! I'll be damned if someone tells me what to do with MY own body!

A tattoo and a human life are not comparable, unless of course, you are grasping at straws to rationalize the taking of innocent human life.

Thank you for joining the discussion. You have clearly demonstrated that "pro choice" is really the highest degree of selfishness.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:09 am

suzycreamcheese;746653 wrote: until a baby can survive independently of its mothers body, ihas no rights and certainly shouldnt have rights that override the peson carrying it.

Pregnancy and birth isnt a walk in the park, its damn hard graft and what it can do to a body physically and mentally can be pretty severe. Its one thing to go through that with a much wanted child, but its something else to force a woman to go through that when she neither wants it, or is ready to deal with it.

So untill a baby can survive independently it isn't human life...but it's a "baby"...human life in its most innnocent and vulnerable form.

Cold blooded selfishness.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:10 am

It amazes me how much rudeness I see perpetuated by the same people time after time and all pretending to be such good christians.

Clint · Post by **Clint** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:14 am

I went to war too. I can get pretty ugly when it comes to protecting human life. I get very passionate when we are talking about innocent life.

For the sake of this argument you can call me anything and blame me for everything. I don't care. I'd rather see some feelings hurt now than for us to continue down this road of devaluing human life.

suzycreamcheese · Post by **suzycreamcheese** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:57 am

Clint;746668 wrote: So untill a baby can survive independently it isn't human life...but it's a "baby"...human life in its most innnocent and vulnerable form.

Cold blooded selfishness.

I didnt say it wasnt human. Its a human foetus for sure. I just dont think that means that a person should be forced to give over thei body for a physical and emotional onslaught and all the risks that brings for the sake of ANYONE else.

I see a pregnancy as the business of the person going through it. Not the business of the general public.

In an ideal world, there would be no unwanted pregnancies, but this is the real world unfortunately.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:47 am

Society does not take care of its own. Women with young children and no spouse or partner must become near superhuman to survive and provide for their children. When we start taking care of our own as if all children born are our own family then we can start deciding whether or not children are better off being born. It is not right or fair to insist that a woman give birth to a child then abandon them both to misfortune.

I believe that abortion is murder but I'm not about to dictate anything until we live in a world where we deal with poverty and give our children an equal chance at life. Our current society has chosen to allow abortion as legal murder instead of taking care of everyone's children. So be it. I do think that women need to think of it as murder when they make that choice because that is what they have to live with after they've done it. Make no mistakes.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 11:08 am

I sincerely thought that it was only my life that I'd be affecting when I made my choice and convinced myself that the thing inside of me was evil so that I could allow myself to kill it. I consider myself to have been somewhat insane when I made the choice I made. I panicked and didn't cope with the stress. I was unable to heal from the trauma of the abortion until I recognised that I had murdered my baby, given it as close to a proper burial as I could, and asked for forgiveness.

If the ability for me to do what I did was taken away, I must admit that I'd not fight for my right to repeat the insanity. I don't feel right telling other women what they should or shouldn't do as that would make me a hypocrite. I must live with knowing I murdered a baby. There is no going back. I wish I could believe that it wasn't a real person yet. I wanted to believe that. I really did. We tell ourselves all kinds of things to justify what we do. I could never have an abortion again and wouldn't have if I'd known what I was doing. As it is, I can't undo it but I can offer my experience so others realise what choice they are making.

I think abortion is murder but I also think that our society is murdering people when we fail to take care of those living in poverty. We should live in shame for as long as anyone in our country starves while others eat cake. Anyone who wants abortion made illegal needs to be at the forefront of an anti-poverty activist group and have proposals for how society will provide for those who need help.