Killer gets seized cash returned
Bieber is serving a whole life sentence for his crimes
The man who killed Pc Ian Broadhurst has won his fight to reclaim £6,000 which was seized during his arrest.
David Bieber shot Pc Ian Broadhurst dead and attempted to murder two other policemen in Leeds on Boxing Day 2003.
The former US marine has been trying to reclaim the money since his conviction at Newcastle Crown Court last year.
On Monday, West Yorkshire Police said there was no evidence to suggest the money was gained illegally and they had agreed it should be returned to Bieber.
The cash was seized during Bieber's arrest at a bed and breakfast in Gateshead.
:-5
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
The sickness is a North American problem too, john. Karla Homolka's imminent release in Canada but one example. 
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
Very carefully, John, try to explain why you think the money should have been confiscated.
The only basis for confiscating it, in UK law at the moment, is if it can be shown to be the proceeds of crime.
Are we to divide criminals into those we disapprove of and the rest, and we deny legal protection to the first category?
If an off-duty copper were jailed for driving at 159 mph on an A road at 4am, for example, would you want his £6k confiscating from his wallet? I'm trying to see where you draw the line at refusing the protection of legal process.
If Richard Branson were jailed for bottling a guy to death in a Saturday night pub brawl, would you have his entire assets confiscated? Or just half of them? Or would you think they were his, and nothing to do with the crime?
The only basis for confiscating it, in UK law at the moment, is if it can be shown to be the proceeds of crime.
Are we to divide criminals into those we disapprove of and the rest, and we deny legal protection to the first category?
If an off-duty copper were jailed for driving at 159 mph on an A road at 4am, for example, would you want his £6k confiscating from his wallet? I'm trying to see where you draw the line at refusing the protection of legal process.
If Richard Branson were jailed for bottling a guy to death in a Saturday night pub brawl, would you have his entire assets confiscated? Or just half of them? Or would you think they were his, and nothing to do with the crime?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
If you want to remove all rights from criminals, Scrat, you should speak with your MP about it. Personally, I think you're mistaken. I'd much rather have a penal regime that reforms and rehabilitates convicts, than one which punishes them. I see no role for punishment in the penal system whatever, and I do actually write to my MP a couple of times a year telling him so, with my reasons. Opinions are somewhat debased coinage when it comes to changing the law of the land, solid argument with factual precedent counts for a lot more.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
Don't tell me, dear boy, I don't legislate. Your MP's the man to chat to about this. Tolerance and understanding don't come into the matter. What he'll be interested in is your reasons and any evidence you can put forward supporting your proposals.
I would most certainly wish to see a car thief spend long enough in prison for the system to persuade him to never do it again. Of course, the current system is very unlikely to achieve that end, being punishment based with very little resource put into reform. As you say, there seems no good reason to wait for a seventh theft before arresting him and bringing him before the bench, or to restrict his stay in jail to one week in response to his actions. You're sure of your facts, here?
I would most certainly wish to see a car thief spend long enough in prison for the system to persuade him to never do it again. Of course, the current system is very unlikely to achieve that end, being punishment based with very little resource put into reform. As you say, there seems no good reason to wait for a seventh theft before arresting him and bringing him before the bench, or to restrict his stay in jail to one week in response to his actions. You're sure of your facts, here?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
Scrat wrote: What is an MP? Some kind of politician?Good lord, Scrat, you're American? There's no national flag against your posts, I had no idea.
MP is a British abbreviation for our elected Members of Parliament. They sit in our lower house, and have the final word on legislation.
MP is a British abbreviation for our elected Members of Parliament. They sit in our lower house, and have the final word on legislation.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
greydeadhead
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:52 am
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
Ahh.. the infamous rights of the criminal vs. the victims rights debate... well.. if the money was not gained illegally then fine, he can have it back. I don't know about across the pond but in the US.. he would prolly be sued by the victims family for damages.. so might as well give the money directly to them.
Now.. as far as rehabilitation or reformation of a repeat offender.. I don't see that as a plausible solution. I mean we have repeat offenders after they have be reformed.. so what is the solution then.
Now.. as far as rehabilitation or reformation of a repeat offender.. I don't see that as a plausible solution. I mean we have repeat offenders after they have be reformed.. so what is the solution then.
Feed your spirit by living near it -- Magic Hat Brewery bottle cap
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
greydeadhead wrote: Ahh.. the infamous rights of the criminal vs. the victims rights debate... well.. if the money was not gained illegally then fine, he can have it back. I don't know about across the pond but in the US.. he would prolly be sued by the victims family for damages.. so might as well give the money directly to them.I'll see whether I can find an indication of the proportion of cases where this is a factor in the UK. Less than one percent is my gut feeling, but it's only a guess so far.
greydeadhead wrote: Now.. as far as rehabilitation or reformation of a repeat offender.. I don't see that as a plausible solution. I mean we have repeat offenders after they have be reformed.. so what is the solution then.I would recommend what I frequently do when I need to know the current state of play in an area like this - read the most recent House of Lords debate on the subject. You'll find it at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 8-04_head2
How, therefore, do we restore confidence in the system? The evidence is that more knowledge and direct involvement in the process can go a long way towards achieving that, for fear is rooted in ignorance. When the public, politicians and sentencers are better informed, it means that policies and practice, and rhetoric and reality, can come closer together, and the public can get a system that they actually want. A major public education programme is necessaryHow true, how very true.
greydeadhead wrote: Now.. as far as rehabilitation or reformation of a repeat offender.. I don't see that as a plausible solution. I mean we have repeat offenders after they have be reformed.. so what is the solution then.I would recommend what I frequently do when I need to know the current state of play in an area like this - read the most recent House of Lords debate on the subject. You'll find it at http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 8-04_head2
How, therefore, do we restore confidence in the system? The evidence is that more knowledge and direct involvement in the process can go a long way towards achieving that, for fear is rooted in ignorance. When the public, politicians and sentencers are better informed, it means that policies and practice, and rhetoric and reality, can come closer together, and the public can get a system that they actually want. A major public education programme is necessaryHow true, how very true.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
This SO demonstrates all that is sick about British `justice`.....
I get a little satisfaction knowing that he can't really enjoy his money while doing life in prison...what's he going to do? Buy a boyfriend? Ark-ark!
And yes, if I were the victim or their family, I'd ask for restitution immediately and see if I couldn't attach his bank account.
And yes, if I were the victim or their family, I'd ask for restitution immediately and see if I couldn't attach his bank account.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare