People don't understand why I am such a hardnose for personal freedoms and privacy. This is a prime example. For all we know this is happening in our country right under our noses.
November 7, 2007
Yahoo Criticized in Case of Jailed Dissident
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON, Nov. 6 (AP) — Two top Yahoo officials on Tuesday defended their company’s role in the jailing of a Chinese journalist but ran into withering criticism from United States lawmakers who accused them of complicity with an oppressive Communist regime.
“While technologically and financially you are giants, morally you are pygmies, Tom Lantos, Democrat of California and chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said angrily after hearing from the two executives, Jerry Yang, the chief executive, and Michael J. Callahan, the general counsel.
The journalist Shi Tao was sent to jail for 10 years for engaging in pro-democracy efforts deemed subversive after Yahoo turned over information about his online activities as requested by Chinese authorities.
Mr. Lantos angrily urged the two men to apologize to the journalist’s mother, who was sitting directly behind them.
Mr. Yang and Mr. Callahan turned around from the witness table and bowed from their seats to Mr. Shi’s mother, Gao Qinsheng, who bowed in return and then began to weep.
The committee is investigating statements Mr. Callahan made at a Congressional hearing early last year. He said then that Yahoo had no information about the nature of the Chinese government’s investigation of Mr. Shi when the company turned over information about him in 2004.
Mr. Callahan has since acknowledged that Yahoo officials had received a subpoenalike document that referred to suspected “illegal provision of state secrets — a common charge against political dissidents.
Last week Mr. Callahan issued a statement saying that he had learned the details of the document months after his testimony in February 2006 and that he regretted not alerting the committee to it once he knew about it.
He reiterated that regret Tuesday and contended that Yahoo employees in China had little choice but to comply with the government’s demands.
“I cannot ask our local employees to resist lawful demands and put their own freedom at risk, even if, in my personal view, the local laws are overbroad, Mr. Callahan said.
Mr. Callahan could not say whether there were outstanding demands from the Chinese government for information from Yahoo, or whether Yahoo would react the same today to a demand for information from the Chinese government.
He did say that in going into future markets, like Vietnam, Yahoo would aim to find a way to avoid turning over to the government information on citizens’ online activities.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
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RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;717018 wrote: People don't understand why I am such a hardnose for personal freedoms and privacy. This is a prime example. For all we know this is happening in our country right under our noses.
November 7, 2007
Yahoo Criticized in Case of Jailed Dissident
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON, Nov. 6 (AP) — Two top Yahoo officials on Tuesday defended their company’s role in the jailing of a Chinese journalist but ran into withering criticism from United States lawmakers who accused them of complicity with an oppressive Communist regime.
“While technologically and financially you are giants, morally you are pygmies, Tom Lantos, Democrat of California and chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said angrily after hearing from the two executives, Jerry Yang, the chief executive, and Michael J. Callahan, the general counsel.
The journalist Shi Tao was sent to jail for 10 years for engaging in pro-democracy efforts deemed subversive after Yahoo turned over information about his online activities as requested by Chinese authorities.
Mr. Lantos angrily urged the two men to apologize to the journalist’s mother, who was sitting directly behind them.
Mr. Yang and Mr. Callahan turned around from the witness table and bowed from their seats to Mr. Shi’s mother, Gao Qinsheng, who bowed in return and then began to weep.
The committee is investigating statements Mr. Callahan made at a Congressional hearing early last year. He said then that Yahoo had no information about the nature of the Chinese government’s investigation of Mr. Shi when the company turned over information about him in 2004.
Mr. Callahan has since acknowledged that Yahoo officials had received a subpoenalike document that referred to suspected “illegal provision of state secrets — a common charge against political dissidents.
Last week Mr. Callahan issued a statement saying that he had learned the details of the document months after his testimony in February 2006 and that he regretted not alerting the committee to it once he knew about it.
He reiterated that regret Tuesday and contended that Yahoo employees in China had little choice but to comply with the government’s demands.
“I cannot ask our local employees to resist lawful demands and put their own freedom at risk, even if, in my personal view, the local laws are overbroad, Mr. Callahan said.
Mr. Callahan could not say whether there were outstanding demands from the Chinese government for information from Yahoo, or whether Yahoo would react the same today to a demand for information from the Chinese government.
He did say that in going into future markets, like Vietnam, Yahoo would aim to find a way to avoid turning over to the government information on citizens’ online activities.
that's scary...:-3
November 7, 2007
Yahoo Criticized in Case of Jailed Dissident
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON, Nov. 6 (AP) — Two top Yahoo officials on Tuesday defended their company’s role in the jailing of a Chinese journalist but ran into withering criticism from United States lawmakers who accused them of complicity with an oppressive Communist regime.
“While technologically and financially you are giants, morally you are pygmies, Tom Lantos, Democrat of California and chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said angrily after hearing from the two executives, Jerry Yang, the chief executive, and Michael J. Callahan, the general counsel.
The journalist Shi Tao was sent to jail for 10 years for engaging in pro-democracy efforts deemed subversive after Yahoo turned over information about his online activities as requested by Chinese authorities.
Mr. Lantos angrily urged the two men to apologize to the journalist’s mother, who was sitting directly behind them.
Mr. Yang and Mr. Callahan turned around from the witness table and bowed from their seats to Mr. Shi’s mother, Gao Qinsheng, who bowed in return and then began to weep.
The committee is investigating statements Mr. Callahan made at a Congressional hearing early last year. He said then that Yahoo had no information about the nature of the Chinese government’s investigation of Mr. Shi when the company turned over information about him in 2004.
Mr. Callahan has since acknowledged that Yahoo officials had received a subpoenalike document that referred to suspected “illegal provision of state secrets — a common charge against political dissidents.
Last week Mr. Callahan issued a statement saying that he had learned the details of the document months after his testimony in February 2006 and that he regretted not alerting the committee to it once he knew about it.
He reiterated that regret Tuesday and contended that Yahoo employees in China had little choice but to comply with the government’s demands.
“I cannot ask our local employees to resist lawful demands and put their own freedom at risk, even if, in my personal view, the local laws are overbroad, Mr. Callahan said.
Mr. Callahan could not say whether there were outstanding demands from the Chinese government for information from Yahoo, or whether Yahoo would react the same today to a demand for information from the Chinese government.
He did say that in going into future markets, like Vietnam, Yahoo would aim to find a way to avoid turning over to the government information on citizens’ online activities.
that's scary...:-3
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
Good lord... what would you advise Yahoo to do in the US if they had a law enforcement request for logged details, backed by a court order?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
I would hope they'd have some integrity and not sell out their clients.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;717092 wrote: I would hope they'd have some integrity and not sell out their clients.
what if their clients were believed to be members of al-qaeda?
what if their clients were believed to be members of al-qaeda?
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
And what if they weren't?
I see your point and had thought about that before I posted about this, BigEars,and I admit it's a hard line to draw. After all, democracy is anathema to the Chinese as much as Al-Queda is to us. But still I have to side with invasion of privacy on this. That will be one of our last freedoms to go but it's going as we speak as so few people care about it and many have that "I've got nothing to hide" attitude going for them.
I see your point and had thought about that before I posted about this, BigEars,and I admit it's a hard line to draw. After all, democracy is anathema to the Chinese as much as Al-Queda is to us. But still I have to side with invasion of privacy on this. That will be one of our last freedoms to go but it's going as we speak as so few people care about it and many have that "I've got nothing to hide" attitude going for them.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RG, the reason I asked about what you would advise Yahoo to do in the US if they had a law enforcement request for logged details backed by a court order, for any reason whatever, is that their officers would be jailed and their company fined huge amounts if they refused to provide it. That's US law and you'd better believe that Yahoo would jump like a scalded cat to comply if asked. It's not for the Yahoo officers to decide whether each case has merit, the court does that.
US law enforcement also have a form of words which, if they write them down and hand them to Yahoo, have the same legal effect as a court order without needing to go and get one. That's US law as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if Yahoo jumped even faster to comply with a request put that way.
So, what should Yahoo officers do in the US when this happens? Go to jail? Pay the fines?
US law enforcement also have a form of words which, if they write them down and hand them to Yahoo, have the same legal effect as a court order without needing to go and get one. That's US law as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if Yahoo jumped even faster to comply with a request put that way.
So, what should Yahoo officers do in the US when this happens? Go to jail? Pay the fines?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
Spot, I do understand the direction you're coming from, but what happened to integrity? Backbone? Not giving in to "The Man?" I liken this Chinese guy's situation to that of a journalist- should a journalist be required to give up his sources? I cannot help but think if more people (and businesses) refused to give in, even though there'd be a price to pay, that they could overturn these crazy invasions. Or am I just being over-idealistic??
ETA: Here's another example, Spot: http://frostfirecore.com/verizon-like-a ... ne-records
ETA: Here's another example, Spot: http://frostfirecore.com/verizon-like-a ... ne-records
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
The Verizon link discusses exactly what I referred to. The FBI has a FAQ on National Security Letters and federal executive branch administrative subpoenas which lists their authority to issue them. What happened to integrity? Backbone? Not giving in to "The Man"? You got the Patriot Act in exchange. Are you really suggesting that officers of Yahoo are going to go to jail, and the company face fines, in the face of the FBI and pre-existing legislation which demands compliance? Who'd work for Yahoo in such circumstances?
Once you come to terms with the fact that Yahoo and its officers feel obliged to adhere to the law of a country in which they operate you can return to the case in China and ask what difference there is. The same legal demand, the same sanctions in the event of refusal. Yahoo could close down its US arm rather than comply, it could close down its China arm rather than comply, but it's pointless to think that its officers will do jail time in either country rather than obey the law of the land.
Yahoo is in the US and in China to make money. Their directors would be dismissed by their shareholders if the directors didn't maximize the shareholder return on investment while operating within the law. That's capitalism.
Just to expand on the use of letters rather than court orders to hand over records, far more are court ordered. Here's the Washington Post article that your link referred to: From January 2005 to September 2007, Verizon provided data to federal authorities on an emergency basis 720 times, it said in the letter. The records included Internet protocol addresses as well as phone data. In that period, Verizon turned over information a total of 94,000 times to federal authorities armed with a subpoena or court order, the letter said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... .htmlEvery one of those 94,000 times is equivalent to the Chinese request for information - a law enforcement request sanctioned by local law.
Once you come to terms with the fact that Yahoo and its officers feel obliged to adhere to the law of a country in which they operate you can return to the case in China and ask what difference there is. The same legal demand, the same sanctions in the event of refusal. Yahoo could close down its US arm rather than comply, it could close down its China arm rather than comply, but it's pointless to think that its officers will do jail time in either country rather than obey the law of the land.
Yahoo is in the US and in China to make money. Their directors would be dismissed by their shareholders if the directors didn't maximize the shareholder return on investment while operating within the law. That's capitalism.
Just to expand on the use of letters rather than court orders to hand over records, far more are court ordered. Here's the Washington Post article that your link referred to: From January 2005 to September 2007, Verizon provided data to federal authorities on an emergency basis 720 times, it said in the letter. The records included Internet protocol addresses as well as phone data. In that period, Verizon turned over information a total of 94,000 times to federal authorities armed with a subpoena or court order, the letter said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... .htmlEvery one of those 94,000 times is equivalent to the Chinese request for information - a law enforcement request sanctioned by local law.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;717212 wrote: Spot, I do understand the direction you're coming from, but what happened to integrity? Backbone? Not giving in to "The Man?" I liken this Chinese guy's situation to that of a journalist- should a journalist be required to give up his sources? I cannot help but think if more people (and businesses) refused to give in, even though there'd be a price to pay, that they could overturn these crazy invasions. Or am I just being over-idealistic??
ETA: Here's another example, Spot: http://frostfirecore.com/verizon-like-a ... ne-records
Move the case around a bit - the guy is a suspected paedophile and they're trying to get evidence. Do you block it then?
Similarly, the guy's suspected of being a member of Al-Quaeda - do you block it then.
When is it lack of backbone and when is it serving the cause?
ETA: Here's another example, Spot: http://frostfirecore.com/verizon-like-a ... ne-records
Move the case around a bit - the guy is a suspected paedophile and they're trying to get evidence. Do you block it then?
Similarly, the guy's suspected of being a member of Al-Quaeda - do you block it then.
When is it lack of backbone and when is it serving the cause?
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RedGlitter
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- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
Bryn Mawr;717587 wrote: Move the case around a bit - the guy is a suspected paedophile and they're trying to get evidence. Do you block it then?
Similarly, the guy's suspected of being a member of Al-Quaeda - do you block it then.
When is it lack of backbone and when is it serving the cause?
I've been thinking on this for quite a while now. First, in reference to what Spot said about that infernal Patriot Act- I hate that thing! It has become nothing but a figural umbrella excuse for BushCo to run amok invading Americans' and others' privacy. The sooner we rid ourselves of that thing IMO, the better it will be.
But Bryn makes a very valid point and I am not sure I have the answer. When is suspicion enough to create action? It's easy to say what we would want to do in the case of the alleged kid molester and Al-Queda. But in regards to the Chinese man, not so easy. The western world loves democracy as much as China loves its system- one we deem wrong. I applaud the Chinese man for wanting freedom but I suppose that's because I do not live in China. Did he really do anything wrong? In his government's eyes, obviously so. But what about in God's eyes? What about in the sense of ethics? Should we not all want freedom?
I'm sure I'm being idealistic again to think that if Yahoo refused to comply, there would be a price to pay, but is there not a price to pay every time you work to change the status quo? Did the people who came before you not fight for a better situation thereby making it better for those to follow? So yes, I am being idealistic (won't use the word naive) about this.
In the end, because this wasn't about pedophiles or terrorists, I still have to side with a person's right to privacy. I really do feel that with every encroachment upon it, our freedom- anyone's freedom- will be compromised.
Similarly, the guy's suspected of being a member of Al-Quaeda - do you block it then.
When is it lack of backbone and when is it serving the cause?
I've been thinking on this for quite a while now. First, in reference to what Spot said about that infernal Patriot Act- I hate that thing! It has become nothing but a figural umbrella excuse for BushCo to run amok invading Americans' and others' privacy. The sooner we rid ourselves of that thing IMO, the better it will be.
But Bryn makes a very valid point and I am not sure I have the answer. When is suspicion enough to create action? It's easy to say what we would want to do in the case of the alleged kid molester and Al-Queda. But in regards to the Chinese man, not so easy. The western world loves democracy as much as China loves its system- one we deem wrong. I applaud the Chinese man for wanting freedom but I suppose that's because I do not live in China. Did he really do anything wrong? In his government's eyes, obviously so. But what about in God's eyes? What about in the sense of ethics? Should we not all want freedom?
I'm sure I'm being idealistic again to think that if Yahoo refused to comply, there would be a price to pay, but is there not a price to pay every time you work to change the status quo? Did the people who came before you not fight for a better situation thereby making it better for those to follow? So yes, I am being idealistic (won't use the word naive) about this.
In the end, because this wasn't about pedophiles or terrorists, I still have to side with a person's right to privacy. I really do feel that with every encroachment upon it, our freedom- anyone's freedom- will be compromised.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;717703 wrote: Did he really do anything wrong? In his government's eyes, obviously so. But what about in God's eyes? What about in the sense of ethics? Should we not all want freedom?Your Chinese tend to be Confucians, not Christians. Confucius would be more than content to see the troublemaker go to the wall, he'd recommend it. Different societies have different values and the world would be a safer and more pleasant place all round if Americans were more aware of that. Ethically in their eyes he's a criminal. Legally in their eyes he's a criminal. Quite reasonably in their eyes the concept of God you're advancing here is meaningless and individual freedom is less valuable than collective security. As you say, you don't have to live there.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
Yeah I should have realized that the God reference wasn't going to fly, that was just my own thinking. Do we not have an obligation to right wrongs or what we see as wrongs, Spot? I'm starting to draw a parallel here and am not sure if it's going to come across properly....you would probably tell me that who is the US or anyone else to decide what is right for another country? And yet we're villifying Dog the Bounty Hunter in another thread for his opinion, of which we think is wrong. Either we have a responsibility to promote freedom for all or we don't....which is it??
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;718230 wrote: Yeah I should have realized that the God reference wasn't going to fly, that was just my own thinking. Do we not have an obligation to right wrongs or what we see as wrongs, Spot? I'm starting to draw a parallel here and am not sure if it's going to come across properly....you would probably tell me that who is the US or anyone else to decide what is right for another country? And yet we're vilifying Dog the Bounty Hunter in another thread for his opinion, of which we think is wrong. Either we have a responsibility to promote freedom for all or we don't....which is it??
I can't put it any stronger terms that you absolutely don't, ever, under any circumstances, unless you're prepared to go later and justify beyond reasonable doubt before an independent court that your actions were triggered by an immediate threat to your continued survival in your own country and that everyone involved in the decision is subject to life imprisonment if they called it wrong. No nation on earth has an obligation to right wrongs or what it sees as wrongs under any circumstances whatever. There are international mechanisms to right crimes like genocide which have nothing to do with unilateral warfare.
By all means vilify them as much as you feel like, by all means refuse to trade with them if you don't like what they do. By all means persuade other countries to refuse to trade with them too, if you can do it. That includes forbidding Yahoo to continue to do business there if you have a national authority over Yahoo. By all means boycott their Olympic Games, forbid your own citizens from smoking their cigars, anything you like. You may not kill their countrymen or bomb their facilities under any circumstances short of those I've described, those are illegal acts of war.
I can't put it any stronger terms that you absolutely don't, ever, under any circumstances, unless you're prepared to go later and justify beyond reasonable doubt before an independent court that your actions were triggered by an immediate threat to your continued survival in your own country and that everyone involved in the decision is subject to life imprisonment if they called it wrong. No nation on earth has an obligation to right wrongs or what it sees as wrongs under any circumstances whatever. There are international mechanisms to right crimes like genocide which have nothing to do with unilateral warfare.
By all means vilify them as much as you feel like, by all means refuse to trade with them if you don't like what they do. By all means persuade other countries to refuse to trade with them too, if you can do it. That includes forbidding Yahoo to continue to do business there if you have a national authority over Yahoo. By all means boycott their Olympic Games, forbid your own citizens from smoking their cigars, anything you like. You may not kill their countrymen or bomb their facilities under any circumstances short of those I've described, those are illegal acts of war.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
You should worry more about what is happening in the US
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Countdown ... _1107.html
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3833172
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Countdown ... _1107.html
http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3833172
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
spot;717064 wrote: Good lord... what would you advise Yahoo to do in the US if they had a law enforcement request for logged details, backed by a court order?
I usually do the River Dance. It throws people off just long enough for me to run out the door.
I usually do the River Dance. It throws people off just long enough for me to run out the door.
I AM AWESOME MAN
Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
RedGlitter;718230 wrote: Do we not have an obligation to right wrongs or what we see as wrongs, Spot?
I've had a think about this and there's another parallel that hasn't been made, it might be worth discussing.
The European Union finds the death penalty abhorrent. The US doesn't.
One consequence of this is that EU countries refuse on principle to extradite US suspects, even if they're US citizens, unless a guarantee is provided that the suspect, if found guilty, won't be sentenced to death. Without such a guarantee the countries of the EU refuse extradition.
Does this fall in the category of righting wrongs that you're exploring? It's not the same issue as obeying local laws but it's around the edge.
I've had a think about this and there's another parallel that hasn't been made, it might be worth discussing.
The European Union finds the death penalty abhorrent. The US doesn't.
One consequence of this is that EU countries refuse on principle to extradite US suspects, even if they're US citizens, unless a guarantee is provided that the suspect, if found guilty, won't be sentenced to death. Without such a guarantee the countries of the EU refuse extradition.
Does this fall in the category of righting wrongs that you're exploring? It's not the same issue as obeying local laws but it's around the edge.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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RedGlitter
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Yahoo Sells Out Chinese Man who Wants Democracy
spot;719839 wrote: I've had a think about this and there's another parallel that hasn't been made, it might be worth discussing.
The European Union finds the death penalty abhorrent. The US doesn't.
One consequence of this is that EU countries refuse on principle to extradite US suspects, even if they're US citizens, unless a guarantee is provided that the suspect, if found guilty, won't be sentenced to death. Without such a guarantee the countries of the EU refuse extradition.
Does this fall in the category of righting wrongs that you're exploring? It's not the same issue as obeying local laws but it's around the edge.
Let me think about that for a bit and I'll come back to it.
The European Union finds the death penalty abhorrent. The US doesn't.
One consequence of this is that EU countries refuse on principle to extradite US suspects, even if they're US citizens, unless a guarantee is provided that the suspect, if found guilty, won't be sentenced to death. Without such a guarantee the countries of the EU refuse extradition.
Does this fall in the category of righting wrongs that you're exploring? It's not the same issue as obeying local laws but it's around the edge.
Let me think about that for a bit and I'll come back to it.