When I was about 4 years old, my 7 year old sister and I were playing together in the back yard. We were riding a swinging glider on our swing set. It had two seats on either end of a steel tube, and swung forward and backward. At one point, while I was looking up, head back, eyes closed, enjoying the ride, my sister fell off, and I did not notice. She landed on her belly under the glider, and when she lifted her head, the steel tube on which I was joyfully swinging, struck her in the forehead, and cut a deep gash. She cried while I continued swinging, unaware that I had hurt her. My mother heard her screaming and took her to the emergency room where she required several stitches. Today she has a scar that is hidden behind her hairline. I only know this story from my mother telling me- the event is gone from my memory.
I think the American government has become like this swinging glider, the American people like me as a little 4-year-old boy, and the world like my sister.
Please tell me and all Americans who are reading true, personal stories of how this superpower has affected your life and the people around you. Feel free to tell us what it seems at least half of us are blissfully unaware of and do not wish to know.
Americans are welcome to talk about their concerns also, and I don’t expect objectivity, but I must insist on civility.
Is America Bad?
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telaquapacky
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Is America Bad?
Look what the cat dragged in.
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
telaquapacky wrote: .......I think the American government has become like this swinging glider, the American people like me as a little 4-year-old boy, and the world like my sister. Please tell me ....how this superpower has affected your life and the people around you. Feel free to tell us what it seems at least half of us are blissfully unaware of and do not wish to know.
A very nice comparison. I am not an American, but if permitted I would like to tell you how we perceive America and its people. A nation of well intentioned people but not very well informed about other countries and their people. May be it is because they feel that they are the best and they don't have any need to know about others, that every other body is dependent on them, that others will perish if they do not guide them at every step of their political life. Under their misplaced concerns about democracy and peace in the world, US administration has caused many problems for other countries. If a vote is asked from all the people in the world then there would be many surprises for America and Americans.
A very nice comparison. I am not an American, but if permitted I would like to tell you how we perceive America and its people. A nation of well intentioned people but not very well informed about other countries and their people. May be it is because they feel that they are the best and they don't have any need to know about others, that every other body is dependent on them, that others will perish if they do not guide them at every step of their political life. Under their misplaced concerns about democracy and peace in the world, US administration has caused many problems for other countries. If a vote is asked from all the people in the world then there would be many surprises for America and Americans.
Is America Bad?
As an American I am very concerned about how we are viewed by the rest of the world. I think that what has happened would have happened with any other country in the same position. The world has been drawn close (too close) by technology. We are trying to meld all the cultures into one world-wide culture. It will never work.
The culture of the most powerful becomes the culture that is being imposed. America is that culture right now and it is being examined critically by everyone. Any culture under the same scrutiny will be found to have faults. We have plenty.
There isn’t a way that I can imagine, for all cultures to blend, with equal power and rights. Any time you get two people together one will lead. Anytime you get two cultures together, one will lead. If the one that leads does it benevolently then the others are blessed. If the one that leads loses its sense of purpose and vision, the others will be cursed.
I fear we have risen to a position of dominance in the world too quickly. I don’t think we have the broad based foundation of support we need to sustain our position in the world. I hope we will be able to realize our weaknesses, fix what needs to be fixed and return to being a blessing to the rest of the world. If we don’t, another nation or individual will rise to fill the void and after a while, the same scrutiny will be given and many faults will be found. The cycle will only be broken by divine intervention.
The culture of the most powerful becomes the culture that is being imposed. America is that culture right now and it is being examined critically by everyone. Any culture under the same scrutiny will be found to have faults. We have plenty.
There isn’t a way that I can imagine, for all cultures to blend, with equal power and rights. Any time you get two people together one will lead. Anytime you get two cultures together, one will lead. If the one that leads does it benevolently then the others are blessed. If the one that leads loses its sense of purpose and vision, the others will be cursed.
I fear we have risen to a position of dominance in the world too quickly. I don’t think we have the broad based foundation of support we need to sustain our position in the world. I hope we will be able to realize our weaknesses, fix what needs to be fixed and return to being a blessing to the rest of the world. If we don’t, another nation or individual will rise to fill the void and after a while, the same scrutiny will be given and many faults will be found. The cycle will only be broken by divine intervention.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
Clint wrote: As an American I am very concerned about how we are viewed by the rest of the world. I think that what has happened would have happened with any other country in the same position. The world has been drawn close (too close) by technology. We are trying to meld all the cultures into one world-wide culture. It will never work.
A nice thought. I hope that non-american posters on FG will provide that feedback. I have given you mine and feel happy that you have received it with positive attitude.
Technology has certainly brought people together. There is more interaction between people across the world. It will certainly affect each other's thinking. But you are right that trying to create one culturte across the whole world is not a practical idea. It will never work.
The culture of the most powerful becomes the culture that is being imposed. America is that culture right now and it is being examined critically by everyone. Any culture under the same scrutiny will be found to have faults. We have plenty.
The most powerful should be more cautious. The way America has imposed its way of thinking on others is bound to have a negative reaction. I think nobody is finding faults with American culture. It is the superiority and egoistic attitude and a contempt for others which is not liked.
There isn’t a way that I can imagine, for all cultures to blend, with equal power and rights. Any time you get two people together one will lead. Anytime you get two cultures together, one will lead. If the one that leads does it benevolently then the others are blessed. If the one that leads loses its sense of purpose and vision, the others will be cursed.
Leading others is another thing but forcing others in to complete submission is altogether different. America should be benevolent in its approach. It may have a positive sense of purpose and vision but you are right it seems to have been lost in the way. It is the credibility of US government which has been affected. People have somehow developed a sense of suspicion about American motives.
I fear we have risen to a position of dominance in the world too quickly. I don’t think we have the broad based foundation of support we need to sustain our position in the world. I hope we will be able to realize our weaknesses, fix what needs to be fixed and return to being a blessing to the rest of the world. If we don’t, another nation or individual will rise to fill the void and after a while, the same scrutiny will be given and many faults will be found. The cycle will only be broken by divine intervention.
You are perfectly right. Americans need to look at them fron outside to inside and introduce neccessary corrections. I am sure that they have the capability and will do it. It is a divine intervention that you are looking for feedback and people like me are providing it. Make use of it. Such divine interventions do not come with a covering note. One has to disciver it and use it.
A nice thought. I hope that non-american posters on FG will provide that feedback. I have given you mine and feel happy that you have received it with positive attitude.
Technology has certainly brought people together. There is more interaction between people across the world. It will certainly affect each other's thinking. But you are right that trying to create one culturte across the whole world is not a practical idea. It will never work.
The culture of the most powerful becomes the culture that is being imposed. America is that culture right now and it is being examined critically by everyone. Any culture under the same scrutiny will be found to have faults. We have plenty.
The most powerful should be more cautious. The way America has imposed its way of thinking on others is bound to have a negative reaction. I think nobody is finding faults with American culture. It is the superiority and egoistic attitude and a contempt for others which is not liked.
There isn’t a way that I can imagine, for all cultures to blend, with equal power and rights. Any time you get two people together one will lead. Anytime you get two cultures together, one will lead. If the one that leads does it benevolently then the others are blessed. If the one that leads loses its sense of purpose and vision, the others will be cursed.
Leading others is another thing but forcing others in to complete submission is altogether different. America should be benevolent in its approach. It may have a positive sense of purpose and vision but you are right it seems to have been lost in the way. It is the credibility of US government which has been affected. People have somehow developed a sense of suspicion about American motives.
I fear we have risen to a position of dominance in the world too quickly. I don’t think we have the broad based foundation of support we need to sustain our position in the world. I hope we will be able to realize our weaknesses, fix what needs to be fixed and return to being a blessing to the rest of the world. If we don’t, another nation or individual will rise to fill the void and after a while, the same scrutiny will be given and many faults will be found. The cycle will only be broken by divine intervention.
You are perfectly right. Americans need to look at them fron outside to inside and introduce neccessary corrections. I am sure that they have the capability and will do it. It is a divine intervention that you are looking for feedback and people like me are providing it. Make use of it. Such divine interventions do not come with a covering note. One has to disciver it and use it.
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
gregady wrote: i have to say i 100% agree with this here man, i really could go on all day about america and the things it does but i dont want to. the truth is you only learn about your own country, i am truly interested in the sylabus of the education board in the U.S as we went into great depth about the american indipendance but you seem to leep over every other culture....and may i just add i find it very insulting when i hear an american insult the french in ways such generically as they are cowards, when you all clearly have the opinion that your independance was won by a bunch of farmers with pitch forks when the fact is it was the french that helped your indepencdance, if it wasnt for the french you would possibly still be under our raine. i would like to giv u an instace wher i have truly witnessed the horrifying truth....i have an xbox games console which you can play online i often play americans but these americans (young may i add under the age of 18) are so defiant of the truth and seem to insult my way of life....i was asked if we had telephones in england if we had the internet bearning in mind you need a broadband connection to play xbox live, i was asked if we all stop at 4pm to have a cup of tea and if i knew the queen, i mean really that is your future talking there if the saying is tru children are the future then i am frightend
there, there. you go ahead and be frightened, dear. and we'll remain frightened of those who are informed about other cultures while playing online games.
hey, i've seen the benny hill show. so england must be populated with obnoxious, unfunny, puerile, sods, right?
QED.
there, there. you go ahead and be frightened, dear. and we'll remain frightened of those who are informed about other cultures while playing online games.
hey, i've seen the benny hill show. so england must be populated with obnoxious, unfunny, puerile, sods, right?
QED.
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anastrophe
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gregady wrote: ooo i have a catch here....look thats my opinion no need to be funny or sarcastic my old fine china am sure you have ur view and if you think where all like benny hill....which was a hit back in the 80s my friend then feel free
my point, dear friend, has to do with sample size.
my point, dear friend, has to do with sample size.
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anastrophe
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gregady wrote: actually on that point the size is small and for that i apologise, but are you not a little bit concerned about this?
concerned about what obnoxious teenagers say while playing videogames online? no, not at all. it is not a representative sample of american youth.
it is a representative sample of what obnoxious teenagers say while playing videogames online.
concerned about what obnoxious teenagers say while playing videogames online? no, not at all. it is not a representative sample of american youth.
it is a representative sample of what obnoxious teenagers say while playing videogames online.
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: I'm from South Africa (now living in London) and I lived in the states for 5 years. What absolutely amazed me was Americans' complete ignorance of the world outside their borders. I was asked things like "if you're from africa, why aren't you black?" or (my personal favourite) "isn't south africa somewhere in europe?" ...............
Every individual American I have met has been a lovely (if perhaps loud and a little obnoxious) person. But collectively and with regards to foreign policy, I wish it would disappear.
I will request American friends on FG to post their comments on the above review.
Every individual American I have met has been a lovely (if perhaps loud and a little obnoxious) person. But collectively and with regards to foreign policy, I wish it would disappear.
I will request American friends on FG to post their comments on the above review.
Is America Bad?
In europe it's dead easy, you get in a car or train and drive across the border, in the UK you get on a ferry or go on a package holiday it's a simple matter to visit a completely different culture and get to know other cultures or at least get exposure to them.
On the other hand how many holiday resorts have been turned in to drinking dens by british tourists- go to benidorm how many really get to know another culture?
A lot of British people don't know their own history or even their own country. I work with people who go abroad every year who have never been round the UK apart from their own little bit of it. I used to live in London near ealing broadway, I had a neighbour who had never been to the centre of london- a twenty minute bus or train ride away-because they didn't see the point. I have a work colleague who for the first time in his 35 year life went round loch lomond raved about how fantastic it was-this is an hour away all this timme driving around big powerful cars in a city the only long journey he made was to the airport to go abroad.
On the other hand I've met plenty of american tourists in the middle of nowhere exploring the hills. The funniest were two texans on mountain bikes in the middle of the corrieyairack pass who thought the rain was wonderful as they were used to desert country.
My point?
Its easier in europe to visit completely different countries with different language and culture. Exposure means you do gradually get to know more and get more interested and maybe even appreciate them.
Most people don't bother because they see no real need.
Our education system is different our media TV is perhaps better and more informative (don't know never been to america) and more importantly perhaps more inclined to be critical of government but at the end of the day we are all like each other. What seems to be happening in america is bad, personally i wouldn't want to live there but it's a bit like people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
One of the appeals to me of this kind of forum is the chance to talk? to such a diverse range of people hopefully without falling out too much.
As an aside anastrophe, tell any friends you might have (that's doesn't look quite right but hopefully you get my drift) not to talk about "english" troops in Iraq or we won't let you borrow the Black Watch.
On the other hand how many holiday resorts have been turned in to drinking dens by british tourists- go to benidorm how many really get to know another culture?
A lot of British people don't know their own history or even their own country. I work with people who go abroad every year who have never been round the UK apart from their own little bit of it. I used to live in London near ealing broadway, I had a neighbour who had never been to the centre of london- a twenty minute bus or train ride away-because they didn't see the point. I have a work colleague who for the first time in his 35 year life went round loch lomond raved about how fantastic it was-this is an hour away all this timme driving around big powerful cars in a city the only long journey he made was to the airport to go abroad.
On the other hand I've met plenty of american tourists in the middle of nowhere exploring the hills. The funniest were two texans on mountain bikes in the middle of the corrieyairack pass who thought the rain was wonderful as they were used to desert country.
My point?
Its easier in europe to visit completely different countries with different language and culture. Exposure means you do gradually get to know more and get more interested and maybe even appreciate them.
Most people don't bother because they see no real need.
Our education system is different our media TV is perhaps better and more informative (don't know never been to america) and more importantly perhaps more inclined to be critical of government but at the end of the day we are all like each other. What seems to be happening in america is bad, personally i wouldn't want to live there but it's a bit like people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
One of the appeals to me of this kind of forum is the chance to talk? to such a diverse range of people hopefully without falling out too much.
As an aside anastrophe, tell any friends you might have (that's doesn't look quite right but hopefully you get my drift) not to talk about "english" troops in Iraq or we won't let you borrow the Black Watch.
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
gmc wrote: .........Exposure means you do gradually get to know more and get more interested and maybe even appreciate them. Most people don't bother because they see no real need..........What seems to be happening in america is bad, personally I wouldn't want to live there but it's a bit like people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
One of the appeals to me of this kind of forum is the chance to talk? to such a diverse range of people hopefully without falling out too much..........
You are right. Exposure cetainly helps in understanding other people. But everybody can not go to every country and meet various people. For such people FG provides required exposure and a chance to know others.
One of the appeals to me of this kind of forum is the chance to talk? to such a diverse range of people hopefully without falling out too much..........
You are right. Exposure cetainly helps in understanding other people. But everybody can not go to every country and meet various people. For such people FG provides required exposure and a chance to know others.
Is America Bad?
Exposure cetainly helps in understanding other people.
Apart from being a bit cold for that kind if thing it can get you arrested in the UK
Apart from being a bit cold for that kind if thing it can get you arrested in the UK
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A Karenina
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Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: I'm from South Africa (now living in London) and I lived in the states for 5 years. What absolutely amazed me was Americans' complete ignorance of the world outside their borders. I was asked things like "if you're from africa, why aren't you black?" or (my personal favourite) "isn't south africa somewhere in europe?"...the clue is in the name, love.
Every individual American I have met has been a lovely (if perhaps loud and a little obnoxious) person. But collectively and with regards to foreign policy, I wish it would disappear.
My reply is at Suresh's request for American FG viewpoints on it.
I've found stupid and/or ignorant people in every place I've ever been. I'm not sure where Heroine was living, how she spent her time, and if she ever met intelligent people while she was here, but I'd definitely question that. At work, I often meet people who don't have a clue. At the library or the bookstore, I meet people who know something about the world, and want to keep expanding their knowledge.
Lovely, loud, and obnoxious? Interesting combination there. (wry grin)
Every empire has its day, and then declines. When that happens to us, then our foreign policy will disappear, and Heroine will have her wish.
My post may sound angry or irritated. I'm not. I just feel that we choose to surround ourselves with certain types of people because they fit into our comfort zone. They reinforce whatever we want to believe, even when it's negative.
Isn't it odd how we react to these things? It's like anything else we love, I guess. I can call my family stupid or dysfuntional or whatever I want to - but if an outsider calls my family names, I'm up in arms.
Every individual American I have met has been a lovely (if perhaps loud and a little obnoxious) person. But collectively and with regards to foreign policy, I wish it would disappear.
My reply is at Suresh's request for American FG viewpoints on it.
I've found stupid and/or ignorant people in every place I've ever been. I'm not sure where Heroine was living, how she spent her time, and if she ever met intelligent people while she was here, but I'd definitely question that. At work, I often meet people who don't have a clue. At the library or the bookstore, I meet people who know something about the world, and want to keep expanding their knowledge.
Lovely, loud, and obnoxious? Interesting combination there. (wry grin)
Every empire has its day, and then declines. When that happens to us, then our foreign policy will disappear, and Heroine will have her wish.
My post may sound angry or irritated. I'm not. I just feel that we choose to surround ourselves with certain types of people because they fit into our comfort zone. They reinforce whatever we want to believe, even when it's negative.
Isn't it odd how we react to these things? It's like anything else we love, I guess. I can call my family stupid or dysfuntional or whatever I want to - but if an outsider calls my family names, I'm up in arms.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
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greydeadhead
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Is America Bad?
hmmmmm... lots of things flying around here... obnoxious teens.. etc.. I was lucky enuff to spend 3 years living in Spain when I was a younger person. Soo.. that gave me a pretty good perspective. I do find it interesting though.. most people find it easy to focus on negative actions by the U.S. .. but you never hear anything about anything positive. Why is that..?? Sure.. the foreign policy is awful.. but when you are trying to satisfy the needs of how many countries someone is not going to be satisfied.. And, being a long time veteran of the tourist industry herein the states, believe me, I dealt with more than my share of obnoxious foreign visitors. But, since I had been exposed to other cultures and people I did not use them as a basis for my opinion of a whole country. okay.. enuff for now.. everyone have a great weekend.. be well.. and will look forward to continuing this interesting conversation next week...
Feed your spirit by living near it -- Magic Hat Brewery bottle cap
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A Karenina
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Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: I never said that I didn't meet people who expressed an interest - in who I was or where I was from or whatever. That's one of the redeeming features of yankie doodles and the only reason I stayed as long as I did...they are friendly and can talk to strangers without being forced to. That's refreshing. I was just shocked at how many adult and supposedly educated people I met that just had no idea what the rest of the world was about.
Heroine, I'm glad you wrote back. Sometimes the internet makes communication difficult, and this is one of those times.
I totally agree that our lack of knowledge is shameful. I've posted it myself on other threads here in this forum. But (laughing) it's ok for me to say that; I'm American and it's my people we're "insulting".
I was worried that my post above would come off as defensive or angry. That's truly not my intention. I appreciate the positive statement about our interest and friendliness. Also, "the lovely, loud, and obnoxious" line made me laugh.
I still can't find a good way to express my thoughts, and I need to run to work at the moment. I'll get back to this, but in the meantime, please know that I'm not offended, nor am I trying to offend you. Thanks!
Heroine, I'm glad you wrote back. Sometimes the internet makes communication difficult, and this is one of those times.
I totally agree that our lack of knowledge is shameful. I've posted it myself on other threads here in this forum. But (laughing) it's ok for me to say that; I'm American and it's my people we're "insulting".
I was worried that my post above would come off as defensive or angry. That's truly not my intention. I appreciate the positive statement about our interest and friendliness. Also, "the lovely, loud, and obnoxious" line made me laugh.
I still can't find a good way to express my thoughts, and I need to run to work at the moment. I'll get back to this, but in the meantime, please know that I'm not offended, nor am I trying to offend you. Thanks!
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
gregady wrote: but these obnoxious teenagers may be a small sample of a few hundred thousand, but i can assure if you did a survey of your country the amount of people that know the capital of france would be an embarresment....thats my point about ignorance
and by the same measure, i'd bet if you did a survey of your country, the amount of people that know the capital of argentina would be an embarrassment.
we have no corner on the market of ignorance in the united states. how about those lovely fellows who beat the living daylights out of people who root for the wrong soccer team? graduates of oxford i presume?
and by the same measure, i'd bet if you did a survey of your country, the amount of people that know the capital of argentina would be an embarrassment.
we have no corner on the market of ignorance in the united states. how about those lovely fellows who beat the living daylights out of people who root for the wrong soccer team? graduates of oxford i presume?
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
A leading newspaper of India has written an editorial titled - "Are they with us or against us?"
India and US are in the process of negotiating steps towards a strategic partnership. Whereas India is doing everything to make this process a success US government does not seem to be honest in its attitude and practice. India continues to be in America's 'rogue state' list. What does it mean?
This negative attitude suggests that US is not being honest in its intentions towards India and the talk of strtegic partnership is just talk and nothing else. These double standards adopted by US including in the fight againsr terrorism makes every Idian suspicious of US government. If today a vote is taken about US in India, a large majority of Indians will vote against US. India may be a minor factor in Amrica's global policies, but in the present climate of anti-americanism, the US sure needs all the friends it has. US has already lost many Indian citizens as its friends. The time is not far when US will loose a natural friend in Indian government also.
India and US are in the process of negotiating steps towards a strategic partnership. Whereas India is doing everything to make this process a success US government does not seem to be honest in its attitude and practice. India continues to be in America's 'rogue state' list. What does it mean?
This negative attitude suggests that US is not being honest in its intentions towards India and the talk of strtegic partnership is just talk and nothing else. These double standards adopted by US including in the fight againsr terrorism makes every Idian suspicious of US government. If today a vote is taken about US in India, a large majority of Indians will vote against US. India may be a minor factor in Amrica's global policies, but in the present climate of anti-americanism, the US sure needs all the friends it has. US has already lost many Indian citizens as its friends. The time is not far when US will loose a natural friend in Indian government also.
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
Suresh Gupta wrote: A leading newspaper of India has written an editorial titled - "Are they with us or against us?"
India and US are in the process of negotiating steps towards a strategic partnership. Whereas India is doing everything to make this process a success US government does not seem to be honest in its attitude and practice. India continues to be in America's 'rogue state' list. What does it mean?
can you give some examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest?
This negative attitude suggests that US is not being honest in its intentions towards India and the talk of strtegic partnership is just talk and nothing else.
again, as per above.
These double standards adopted by US including in the fight againsr terrorism makes every Idian suspicious of US government. If today a vote is taken about US in India, a large majority of Indians will vote against US. India may be a minor factor in Amrica's global policies, but in the present climate of anti-americanism, the US sure needs all the friends it has. US has already lost many Indian citizens as its friends. The time is not far when US will loose a natural friend in Indian government also.
curiously though, i suspect there are great numbers of indians who are incredibly pleased - not with the US government, but with US business (those 'evil corporations' as they are known here) who are providing huge amounts of employment for indian citizens. and of course, there's no shortage or slowdown of people from india - and just about every other nation on earth - trying to immigrate to the US. this is what always baffles me - the US, the big ugly country that does so much evil around the world, reviled, yet strangely people flock here. and of course there's the billions of dollars in humanitarian aid we spread throughout the world. but that doesn't make for interesting news. nor is it interesting news to go to average iraqi citizens and ask them if they would rather be back under saddam hussein's control.
India and US are in the process of negotiating steps towards a strategic partnership. Whereas India is doing everything to make this process a success US government does not seem to be honest in its attitude and practice. India continues to be in America's 'rogue state' list. What does it mean?
can you give some examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest?
This negative attitude suggests that US is not being honest in its intentions towards India and the talk of strtegic partnership is just talk and nothing else.
again, as per above.
These double standards adopted by US including in the fight againsr terrorism makes every Idian suspicious of US government. If today a vote is taken about US in India, a large majority of Indians will vote against US. India may be a minor factor in Amrica's global policies, but in the present climate of anti-americanism, the US sure needs all the friends it has. US has already lost many Indian citizens as its friends. The time is not far when US will loose a natural friend in Indian government also.
curiously though, i suspect there are great numbers of indians who are incredibly pleased - not with the US government, but with US business (those 'evil corporations' as they are known here) who are providing huge amounts of employment for indian citizens. and of course, there's no shortage or slowdown of people from india - and just about every other nation on earth - trying to immigrate to the US. this is what always baffles me - the US, the big ugly country that does so much evil around the world, reviled, yet strangely people flock here. and of course there's the billions of dollars in humanitarian aid we spread throughout the world. but that doesn't make for interesting news. nor is it interesting news to go to average iraqi citizens and ask them if they would rather be back under saddam hussein's control.
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
anastrophe wrote: can you give some examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest?....
curiously though, i suspect there are great numbers of indians who are incredibly pleased - not with the US government, but with US business (those 'evil corporations' as they are known here) who are providing huge amounts of employment for indian citizens. and of course, there's no shortage or slowdown of people from india - and just about every other nation on earth - trying to immigrate to the US. this is what always baffles me - the US, the big ugly country that does so much evil around the world, reviled, yet strangely people flock here. and of course there's the billions of dollars in humanitarian aid we spread throughout the world. but that doesn't make for interesting news. nor is it interesting news to go to average iraqi citizens and ask them if they would rather be back under saddam hussein's control.
Will any purpose be served by giving examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest? My post itself contained some examples but you have failed to notice. The tenor of your reply is itself an example. You have assumed many things and have also decided the stand people of the world should take. I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America as reported in a major newspaper of India. Now it is up to US if it wants to make any use of it.
The title of the thread 'Is America bad' has prompted me to post this message. However if it has hurt you then I am sorry. I am an Indian and am not on this forum to hurt people.
curiously though, i suspect there are great numbers of indians who are incredibly pleased - not with the US government, but with US business (those 'evil corporations' as they are known here) who are providing huge amounts of employment for indian citizens. and of course, there's no shortage or slowdown of people from india - and just about every other nation on earth - trying to immigrate to the US. this is what always baffles me - the US, the big ugly country that does so much evil around the world, reviled, yet strangely people flock here. and of course there's the billions of dollars in humanitarian aid we spread throughout the world. but that doesn't make for interesting news. nor is it interesting news to go to average iraqi citizens and ask them if they would rather be back under saddam hussein's control.
Will any purpose be served by giving examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest? My post itself contained some examples but you have failed to notice. The tenor of your reply is itself an example. You have assumed many things and have also decided the stand people of the world should take. I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America as reported in a major newspaper of India. Now it is up to US if it wants to make any use of it.
The title of the thread 'Is America bad' has prompted me to post this message. However if it has hurt you then I am sorry. I am an Indian and am not on this forum to hurt people.
Is America Bad?
Will any purpose be served by giving examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest?
Why do you think giving examples explaining an ambiguous statement would not serve a purpose?
My post itself contained some examples
Where?
I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America
The literacy rate for your population of over 1 billion people (in a country a tad over 1/3 the size of the United States) is 60%. So, many of your people could not give an educated opinion of what they think of America.
Also, in another response of yours to a post of Paul's, you asked why he had such a negative attitude. His attitude is far from negative........ Paul is only telling like it is, whether you like it or not. And, you claim we Americans are not honest.
When a catastrophic event happens throughout the world, what country is johnny on the spot providing the aid needed (including personnel)? You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about. :-5
Babs
Why do you think giving examples explaining an ambiguous statement would not serve a purpose?
My post itself contained some examples
Where?
I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America
The literacy rate for your population of over 1 billion people (in a country a tad over 1/3 the size of the United States) is 60%. So, many of your people could not give an educated opinion of what they think of America.
Also, in another response of yours to a post of Paul's, you asked why he had such a negative attitude. His attitude is far from negative........ Paul is only telling like it is, whether you like it or not. And, you claim we Americans are not honest.
When a catastrophic event happens throughout the world, what country is johnny on the spot providing the aid needed (including personnel)? You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about. :-5
Babs
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Suresh Gupta
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Is America Bad?
Babs wrote: Why do you think giving examples explaining an ambiguous statement would not serve a purpose?.....
The literacy rate for your population of over 1 billion people (in a country a tad over 1/3 the size of the United States) is 60%. So, many of your people could not give an educated opinion of what they think of America......
Also, in another response of yours to a post of Paul's, you asked why he had such a negative attitude. His attitude is far from negative........ Paul is only telling like it is, whether you like it or not. And, you claim we Americans are not honest......
When a catastrophic event happens throughout the world, what country is johnny on the spot providing the aid needed (including personnel)? You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about.Babs
I am unable to understand why you people are feeling bad? Under a thread 'Is America Bad?' what did you want to hear from other forum members? All praise for Americans. If it is so then I would say 'AMERICA IS NOT BAD'. Now are you happy?
The literacy rate for your population of over 1 billion people (in a country a tad over 1/3 the size of the United States) is 60%. So, many of your people could not give an educated opinion of what they think of America......
Also, in another response of yours to a post of Paul's, you asked why he had such a negative attitude. His attitude is far from negative........ Paul is only telling like it is, whether you like it or not. And, you claim we Americans are not honest......
When a catastrophic event happens throughout the world, what country is johnny on the spot providing the aid needed (including personnel)? You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about.Babs
I am unable to understand why you people are feeling bad? Under a thread 'Is America Bad?' what did you want to hear from other forum members? All praise for Americans. If it is so then I would say 'AMERICA IS NOT BAD'. Now are you happy?
Is America Bad?
I would be a lot happier if you would answer our questions instead of worrying about our feelings.
The newspaper article you posted is very vague. All we are asking is clarification.
Not an unreasonable request.
Babs
The newspaper article you posted is very vague. All we are asking is clarification.
Not an unreasonable request.
Babs
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
Suresh Gupta wrote: Will any purpose be served by giving examples of what the US is doing that does not seem honest?
yes. i'm trying to engage in a discussion. if you don't want to engage in a discussion, then i guess it serves no purpose to give examples.
My post itself contained some examples but you have failed to notice.
no, i did noticed them. as another poster has pointed out, they are ambiguous at best.
The tenor of your reply is itself an example. You have assumed many things and have also decided the stand people of the world should take.
no, i have not done so at all. i've tried suggesting possible counter examples. i'm suggesting that the sweeping generalizations - such as "makes every Indian suspicious of US government" might not be accurate.
I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America as reported in a major newspaper of India. Now it is up to US if it wants to make any use of it.
a newspaper is not an authoritative source of what is on the minds of every indian. it can give some insight, but to extrapolate from that into a hard and fast fact is flawed.
i'm sure that militant, extremist muslim indians might have different opinions from indians who are working full time for US corporations that have outsourced technical support to india. which population is larger?
The title of the thread 'Is America bad' has prompted me to post this message. However if it has hurt you then I am sorry. I am an Indian and am not on this forum to hurt people.
nothing you wrote has 'hurt' me. i'm trying to engage in a discussion. if i counter something you say with an opposing viewpoint, it doesn't mean i've been hurt, it means i'm trying to find if there may be common ground. as well, i may try to influence your opinion, as you may try to influence mine. again, it's a discussion.
yes. i'm trying to engage in a discussion. if you don't want to engage in a discussion, then i guess it serves no purpose to give examples.
My post itself contained some examples but you have failed to notice.
no, i did noticed them. as another poster has pointed out, they are ambiguous at best.
The tenor of your reply is itself an example. You have assumed many things and have also decided the stand people of the world should take.
no, i have not done so at all. i've tried suggesting possible counter examples. i'm suggesting that the sweeping generalizations - such as "makes every Indian suspicious of US government" might not be accurate.
I posted a message detailing what Indians might be thinking about America as reported in a major newspaper of India. Now it is up to US if it wants to make any use of it.
a newspaper is not an authoritative source of what is on the minds of every indian. it can give some insight, but to extrapolate from that into a hard and fast fact is flawed.
i'm sure that militant, extremist muslim indians might have different opinions from indians who are working full time for US corporations that have outsourced technical support to india. which population is larger?
The title of the thread 'Is America bad' has prompted me to post this message. However if it has hurt you then I am sorry. I am an Indian and am not on this forum to hurt people.
nothing you wrote has 'hurt' me. i'm trying to engage in a discussion. if i counter something you say with an opposing viewpoint, it doesn't mean i've been hurt, it means i'm trying to find if there may be common ground. as well, i may try to influence your opinion, as you may try to influence mine. again, it's a discussion.
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
Suresh Gupta wrote: I am unable to understand why you people are feeling bad? Under a thread 'Is America Bad?' what did you want to hear from other forum members? All praise for Americans. If it is so then I would say 'AMERICA IS NOT BAD'. Now are you happy?
this is a strange thing to say. the thread title is a question. some people will answer in the affirmatives, some in the negative. nobody is saying that it should all be praise for americans. i certainly haven't said that. but on the other side of the coin, would you expect everyone to agree that we are bad, simply to corroborate your opinion?
perhaps there should be two topics? "america is bad, explain your reasons why" and "america is good, explain your reasons why". that might not be very interesting though. the nature of discussion is that there are differing opinions. it would be an awfully boring world if we all thought the same, acted the same, had the same opinions.
this is a strange thing to say. the thread title is a question. some people will answer in the affirmatives, some in the negative. nobody is saying that it should all be praise for americans. i certainly haven't said that. but on the other side of the coin, would you expect everyone to agree that we are bad, simply to corroborate your opinion?
perhaps there should be two topics? "america is bad, explain your reasons why" and "america is good, explain your reasons why". that might not be very interesting though. the nature of discussion is that there are differing opinions. it would be an awfully boring world if we all thought the same, acted the same, had the same opinions.
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Bill Sikes
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Is America Bad?
Babs wrote: You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about. Babs
Sound plan. Go for it.
Sound plan. Go for it.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
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Is America Bad?
Bill Sikes wrote: Sound plan. Go for it.
ha. piper alpha would *still* be burning if it weren't for us yanks.
:D
ha. piper alpha would *still* be burning if it weren't for us yanks.
:D
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anastrophe
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Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: Amen brother.
Babs...a lot of these poor nations are in need of aid because they have no money. Why do they have no money? They spunked all their cash and borrowed more (from, guess who, big brother USA - oh so willing to put others in their debt) in order to buy guns. Why did they need guns? To fuel the civil wars kicked off either by the US themselves (Vietnam anyone?) or by previous colonial governments.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Case in point: Mozambique. They're ridiculously in debt because the Belgians and French bought lots of guns to subdue the "savages". Now the savages have their country back but they have to pay for the war waged upon them.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Afghanistan...who bloody gave Osama his guns in the first place? The C-bloody-I-bloody-A!! That's been conveniently forgotten, ne?
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
What do these poor countries have to do to get this "aid"? They have to sign preferential trade agreements with the US saying that they will reserve the best and brightest for export to America. Thus, if they could get a better "fair trade" deal with another nation, they are unable to do so because they lose all aid. Also, they cannot afford to reserve top quality for their own citizens as it needs to be shipped off to the US. What kind of "aid" is that? Tie their hands behind their backs and then say you'll help them out of the kindness of your heart? Oh ta, yes, thank you.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Charity is not charity when it comes with conditions.
really? so if a wino comes up to me on the street, i have to give him money, and cannot tell him he can only spend the money on food, not booze?
i'm going to start a new topic.
Babs...a lot of these poor nations are in need of aid because they have no money. Why do they have no money? They spunked all their cash and borrowed more (from, guess who, big brother USA - oh so willing to put others in their debt) in order to buy guns. Why did they need guns? To fuel the civil wars kicked off either by the US themselves (Vietnam anyone?) or by previous colonial governments.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Case in point: Mozambique. They're ridiculously in debt because the Belgians and French bought lots of guns to subdue the "savages". Now the savages have their country back but they have to pay for the war waged upon them.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Afghanistan...who bloody gave Osama his guns in the first place? The C-bloody-I-bloody-A!! That's been conveniently forgotten, ne?
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
What do these poor countries have to do to get this "aid"? They have to sign preferential trade agreements with the US saying that they will reserve the best and brightest for export to America. Thus, if they could get a better "fair trade" deal with another nation, they are unable to do so because they lose all aid. Also, they cannot afford to reserve top quality for their own citizens as it needs to be shipped off to the US. What kind of "aid" is that? Tie their hands behind their backs and then say you'll help them out of the kindness of your heart? Oh ta, yes, thank you.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Charity is not charity when it comes with conditions.
really? so if a wino comes up to me on the street, i have to give him money, and cannot tell him he can only spend the money on food, not booze?
i'm going to start a new topic.
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telaquapacky
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Is America Bad?
Babs wrote: When a catastrophic event happens throughout the world, what country is johnny on the spot providing the aid needed (including personnel)?I know, Babs. I kept waiting for Bangladesh to rush to California's rescue when our orange crop got ruined in the frost a few years ago but they never even offered assistance. In desperation, we had to resort to importing our oranges from Florida. Babs wrote: You know, one day we Americans may just get tired enough of hearing how bad we are, and stop all foreign aid and emergency assistance (with very little appreciation, I might add). Give the world something else to whine about. :-5 Sounds tempting, but this would not be so good for business. As it happens, about ninety cents on the foreign aid dollar generally goes back to the USA, because wherever possible we give in kind, in materials produced in the USA, purchased from American producers, and our projects are always managed by Americans to prevent loss and embezzlement.
One big surprise for me when I lived in Malawi (East Africa) was how great a benefactor South Africa was to the region. While at home I always heard about apartheid and how evil RSA was. On my twice-a-year visits between 1989 and 1996, I watched the slow dismantling of apartheid. I also noticed that my same South African friends who voted for F.W. De Klerk, knowing that their whole lives would change dramatically, but that it was inevitable- now have had to emigrate. Herione can fill us in on that!
Which brings to mind, I also visited Israel. Now here is a stunning example of a particularly harsh form of apartheid (against the Palestinians)- even before the violence became so terrible. Funny how the our country is so selective about who we discipline, economically and otherwise.
We also have problems making friends without alienating other friends. I am certain our buddy-buddying up with Pakistan lately has not helped our image in India (What do you think , Suresh?). Our relations with Turkey are on the fritz because of our leaning toward the Kurds to help us in Iraq. I'm told that a strategic friendship with Turkey would have been a much better aid in trying to put the fire out there.
One big surprise for me when I lived in Malawi (East Africa) was how great a benefactor South Africa was to the region. While at home I always heard about apartheid and how evil RSA was. On my twice-a-year visits between 1989 and 1996, I watched the slow dismantling of apartheid. I also noticed that my same South African friends who voted for F.W. De Klerk, knowing that their whole lives would change dramatically, but that it was inevitable- now have had to emigrate. Herione can fill us in on that!
Which brings to mind, I also visited Israel. Now here is a stunning example of a particularly harsh form of apartheid (against the Palestinians)- even before the violence became so terrible. Funny how the our country is so selective about who we discipline, economically and otherwise.
We also have problems making friends without alienating other friends. I am certain our buddy-buddying up with Pakistan lately has not helped our image in India (What do you think , Suresh?). Our relations with Turkey are on the fritz because of our leaning toward the Kurds to help us in Iraq. I'm told that a strategic friendship with Turkey would have been a much better aid in trying to put the fire out there.
Look what the cat dragged in.
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A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: Charity is not charity when it comes with conditions.
No, dear, it's not. We call it opportunity.
Charity. What is that anyway? A handout? A bandaid to temporarily cover the wound so we don't see how ugly it is? It doesn't solve problems for anybody...and in fact, one could argue that it's created an entire generation of "gimme" people. Irresponsible, "I can't be bothered to work for myself, you have more so you owe me" attitudes.
Charity. I don't owe anybody a handout. Nobody owes me one. It's insulting to the idea of human dignity. It's as if we're saying that we have no faith in their long-term abilities so we will just mask the immediate problem and ignore the rest.
Charity. I didn't give that even to my son. I fed him, clothed him, educated him, loved him, and taught him the best I could. But I most definitely expected something in return. The bargain was clearly stated. I offered him everything I knew of in terms of opportunity so that he could grow into a responsible adult.
Are you really saying that Americans should work hard every day to provide for people we will never even meet? That we have more and therefore we "owe" them? That they are too stupid to be able to succeed? That we are bad to expect something from them?
Sorry, but most of us still believe in opportunity over here. We are more than willing to offer people a chance to stand on their own two feet. But anything else is completely disrespectful - in my view, at least.
No, dear, it's not. We call it opportunity.
Charity. What is that anyway? A handout? A bandaid to temporarily cover the wound so we don't see how ugly it is? It doesn't solve problems for anybody...and in fact, one could argue that it's created an entire generation of "gimme" people. Irresponsible, "I can't be bothered to work for myself, you have more so you owe me" attitudes.
Charity. I don't owe anybody a handout. Nobody owes me one. It's insulting to the idea of human dignity. It's as if we're saying that we have no faith in their long-term abilities so we will just mask the immediate problem and ignore the rest.
Charity. I didn't give that even to my son. I fed him, clothed him, educated him, loved him, and taught him the best I could. But I most definitely expected something in return. The bargain was clearly stated. I offered him everything I knew of in terms of opportunity so that he could grow into a responsible adult.
Are you really saying that Americans should work hard every day to provide for people we will never even meet? That we have more and therefore we "owe" them? That they are too stupid to be able to succeed? That we are bad to expect something from them?
Sorry, but most of us still believe in opportunity over here. We are more than willing to offer people a chance to stand on their own two feet. But anything else is completely disrespectful - in my view, at least.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
Is America Bad?
anastrophe
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Of course we have so does the whole of europe in one way or the other. That doesn't make it right. The difference is we don't pretend otherwise and there is a great deal of opposition to these kind of practices. The other difference is if somebody says the policies of the UK government are crap we don't take it personally and assume you hate everybody that is british. A surprising number would also agree with you. In many third world countries more goes out paying bank interest than they receive in aid. The IMF does a lot of good but it also does a lot of stupid things as well. My saying that doesn't meant I don't approve of the IMF I just object to some of the things they do cos they're daft
i'm sure that militant, extremist muslim indians
Oh dear.
By the way the british raj had bugger all to do with altruism but we liked to delude ourselves. Just used an indian innovation, shampoo Thank you suresh. Another topic perhaps, were it not fot the far east would europeans still smell
There are also major issues about world banks-not just US ones insisting that countries to pay back loans they gave to dictators after they have been overthrown before they can borrow any more or even trade equitably with them-you need trade credits etc. Personally if a bank is daft enough to lend money to a tinpot dictator they should carry the consequences when they get overthrown.
ha. piper alpha would *still* be burning if it weren't for us yanks.
Don't bother invading Scotland to get our oil the S(*&^** english have pinched it
Africa is still paying the price for colonial exploitation and slavery and we were all at it, the question is not so much was it right or not as whether should it be continued bit in different ways. If we spend time assigning blame for past rights and wrongs you avoud discussing what do you do now. It's not how you got in to a situation that matters it's how do you deal with it now but you need to have an understanding of how you got there.
There's a famous latin(roman) quote who's origins I can never remember or the exact wording that goes something like those who never study the past are doomed forever to repeat the same mistakes.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
Of course we have so does the whole of europe in one way or the other. That doesn't make it right. The difference is we don't pretend otherwise and there is a great deal of opposition to these kind of practices. The other difference is if somebody says the policies of the UK government are crap we don't take it personally and assume you hate everybody that is british. A surprising number would also agree with you. In many third world countries more goes out paying bank interest than they receive in aid. The IMF does a lot of good but it also does a lot of stupid things as well. My saying that doesn't meant I don't approve of the IMF I just object to some of the things they do cos they're daft
i'm sure that militant, extremist muslim indians
Oh dear.
By the way the british raj had bugger all to do with altruism but we liked to delude ourselves. Just used an indian innovation, shampoo Thank you suresh. Another topic perhaps, were it not fot the far east would europeans still smell
There are also major issues about world banks-not just US ones insisting that countries to pay back loans they gave to dictators after they have been overthrown before they can borrow any more or even trade equitably with them-you need trade credits etc. Personally if a bank is daft enough to lend money to a tinpot dictator they should carry the consequences when they get overthrown.
ha. piper alpha would *still* be burning if it weren't for us yanks.
Don't bother invading Scotland to get our oil the S(*&^** english have pinched it
Africa is still paying the price for colonial exploitation and slavery and we were all at it, the question is not so much was it right or not as whether should it be continued bit in different ways. If we spend time assigning blame for past rights and wrongs you avoud discussing what do you do now. It's not how you got in to a situation that matters it's how do you deal with it now but you need to have an understanding of how you got there.
There's a famous latin(roman) quote who's origins I can never remember or the exact wording that goes something like those who never study the past are doomed forever to repeat the same mistakes.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Is America Bad?
anastrophe wrote: of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
You've got a "thing" about us, haven't you? That's OK - never mind. However,
you repeatedly imply that it's some sort of defence to say that other countries
have done something bad in their *history*, so it's OK for you. It isn't.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
of course, the UK has never engaged in such tactics. never ever.
You've got a "thing" about us, haven't you? That's OK - never mind. However,
you repeatedly imply that it's some sort of defence to say that other countries
have done something bad in their *history*, so it's OK for you. It isn't.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Is America Bad?
Heroine wrote: Charity is not charity when it comes with conditions.
That was exactly the point. Thanks.
That was exactly the point. Thanks.
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Bill Sikes
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- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Is America Bad?
A Karenina wrote: No, dear, it's not. We call it opportunity.
Charity. What is that anyway? A handout? A bandaid to temporarily cover the wound so we don't see how ugly it is? It doesn't solve problems for anybody...and in fact, one could argue that it's created an entire generation of "gimme" people. Irresponsible, "I can't be bothered to work for myself, you have more so you owe me" attitudes.
Charity. I don't owe anybody a handout. Nobody owes me one. It's insulting to the idea of human dignity. It's as if we're saying that we have no faith in their long-term abilities so we will just mask the immediate problem and ignore the rest.
Charity. I didn't give that even to my son. I fed him, clothed him, educated him, loved him, and taught him the best I could. But I most definitely expected something in return. The bargain was clearly stated. I offered him everything I knew of in terms of opportunity so that he could grow into a responsible adult.
Are you really saying that Americans should work hard every day to provide for people we will never even meet? That we have more and therefore we "owe" them? That they are too stupid to be able to succeed? That we are bad to expect something from them?
Sorry, but most of us still believe in opportunity over here. We are more than willing to offer people a chance to stand on their own two feet. But anything else is completely disrespectful - in my view, at least.
"Charity begins at home". Perhaps you should stop all aid to poor people in
the 'States, as well. If they don't earn the money, obviously you won't want
to help them out, you're unlikely to meet any of them anyway. Perhaps you
could call on the army to go and shoot them.
Charity. What is that anyway? A handout? A bandaid to temporarily cover the wound so we don't see how ugly it is? It doesn't solve problems for anybody...and in fact, one could argue that it's created an entire generation of "gimme" people. Irresponsible, "I can't be bothered to work for myself, you have more so you owe me" attitudes.
Charity. I don't owe anybody a handout. Nobody owes me one. It's insulting to the idea of human dignity. It's as if we're saying that we have no faith in their long-term abilities so we will just mask the immediate problem and ignore the rest.
Charity. I didn't give that even to my son. I fed him, clothed him, educated him, loved him, and taught him the best I could. But I most definitely expected something in return. The bargain was clearly stated. I offered him everything I knew of in terms of opportunity so that he could grow into a responsible adult.
Are you really saying that Americans should work hard every day to provide for people we will never even meet? That we have more and therefore we "owe" them? That they are too stupid to be able to succeed? That we are bad to expect something from them?
Sorry, but most of us still believe in opportunity over here. We are more than willing to offer people a chance to stand on their own two feet. But anything else is completely disrespectful - in my view, at least.
"Charity begins at home". Perhaps you should stop all aid to poor people in
the 'States, as well. If they don't earn the money, obviously you won't want
to help them out, you're unlikely to meet any of them anyway. Perhaps you
could call on the army to go and shoot them.
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greydeadhead
- Posts: 1045
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 8:52 am
Is America Bad?
Well.. I don't think that shooting them is the anwser. Besides, we do attempt to take care of the less fortunate here in the 'States". Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid, Unemeployment, Workers Compensation,... etc. all monies being spent on people that I will never meet.. yet I am supporting them. Unfortunately the well meaning basis for these assistance programs has resulted in generations of people using them as their sole means of making a living.. But I digress, I think the point that was trying to be made is the hypocrisy exhibited by countries that are more than willing to accept aid from the U.S., yet feel the need to jump on the Anti-American bandwagon, currently the popular thing to do. Myself, I think this is something we are going to have to live with, a reward if you please for being more fortunate than other countries.
Feed your spirit by living near it -- Magic Hat Brewery bottle cap
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A Karenina
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:36 am
Is America Bad?
Bill Sikes wrote: "Charity begins at home". Perhaps you should stop all aid to poor people in
the 'States, as well. If they don't earn the money, obviously you won't want
to help them out, you're unlikely to meet any of them anyway. Perhaps you
could call on the army to go and shoot them.Bill, thanks for the laugh! I honestly thought this was very funny. However, when I fantasize about getting rid of useless people, I prefer to push them off the edge of the earth - less bloody, and we save on bullets and manpower.
I don't think we should stop "aid" anywhere. If a country or an individual needs a jumpstart, I'm really ok with helping to provide that. they must help those who come after themselves. I like this italicized part the best.
Habitat For Humanity works like this as well - but the payback comes from labor and time rather than funds.
I don't like huge corporations going overseas and removing job opportunities. I don't like the employment vacuum we're struggling with. If we make a bargain, then we damn well better hold to our end of it.
I'd love for this to extend to other necessities like health care, more housing, etc. I'd like to develop programs that target single moms who struggle so hard against nearly impossible odds. When I dream really big, then I focus on ghettos as well.
Actually, this is my goal after I earn my CPA - to help set up self-supporting community programs where people can help people to help themselves.
I absolutely, and with no shame whatsoever, expect people to TRY. If they don't think enough of themselves to work for their own support, then what am I supposed to think of them? Cold-hearted, perhaps. If I had unlimited resources I might see things differently.
As for the actual trade agreements themselves, I would like to respond to that. But I have yet another early morning meeting and have to run. I will get to it, though. I'm very much enjoying this conversation. Thanks everyone.
the 'States, as well. If they don't earn the money, obviously you won't want
to help them out, you're unlikely to meet any of them anyway. Perhaps you
could call on the army to go and shoot them.Bill, thanks for the laugh! I honestly thought this was very funny. However, when I fantasize about getting rid of useless people, I prefer to push them off the edge of the earth - less bloody, and we save on bullets and manpower.
I don't think we should stop "aid" anywhere. If a country or an individual needs a jumpstart, I'm really ok with helping to provide that. they must help those who come after themselves. I like this italicized part the best.
Habitat For Humanity works like this as well - but the payback comes from labor and time rather than funds.
I don't like huge corporations going overseas and removing job opportunities. I don't like the employment vacuum we're struggling with. If we make a bargain, then we damn well better hold to our end of it.
I'd love for this to extend to other necessities like health care, more housing, etc. I'd like to develop programs that target single moms who struggle so hard against nearly impossible odds. When I dream really big, then I focus on ghettos as well.
Actually, this is my goal after I earn my CPA - to help set up self-supporting community programs where people can help people to help themselves.
I absolutely, and with no shame whatsoever, expect people to TRY. If they don't think enough of themselves to work for their own support, then what am I supposed to think of them? Cold-hearted, perhaps. If I had unlimited resources I might see things differently.
As for the actual trade agreements themselves, I would like to respond to that. But I have yet another early morning meeting and have to run. I will get to it, though. I'm very much enjoying this conversation. Thanks everyone.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit.
Aristotle
Aristotle
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Suresh Gupta
- Posts: 1172
- Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:29 pm
Is America Bad?
Babs wrote: I would be a lot happier if you would answer our questions instead of worrying about our feelings.
The newspaper article you posted is very vague. All we are asking is clarification.
Not an unreasonable request.Babs
I have been thinking about your post. What you want me to do will require me to give examples of negative aspects of America and its people. I don't want to do this. It is not in my nature. There are many messages posted by other members which are doing the same thing. Will it not be better if you read all such posts and think about them with a positive attitude. I have always held in my life that the right thing is to look at ourselves from standing outside and looking at inside us.
I am sorry but I am unable to act as per your request. Your request is not unreasonable but somehow I am not able to make me do it. I hope you understand me.
And another thing, A am sorry if any any of my post has hurt you.
The newspaper article you posted is very vague. All we are asking is clarification.
Not an unreasonable request.Babs
I have been thinking about your post. What you want me to do will require me to give examples of negative aspects of America and its people. I don't want to do this. It is not in my nature. There are many messages posted by other members which are doing the same thing. Will it not be better if you read all such posts and think about them with a positive attitude. I have always held in my life that the right thing is to look at ourselves from standing outside and looking at inside us.
I am sorry but I am unable to act as per your request. Your request is not unreasonable but somehow I am not able to make me do it. I hope you understand me.
And another thing, A am sorry if any any of my post has hurt you.
Is America Bad?
650 Black Watch troops are needed to go and relieve 130 000 US soldiers....? Someone please explain that to me...
One scot=200 americans
a karenina what's a CPA? if you'll pardon my curiosity.
One scot=200 americans
a karenina what's a CPA? if you'll pardon my curiosity.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Is America Bad?
Bill Sikes wrote: You've got a "thing" about us, haven't you? That's OK - never mind. However,
you repeatedly imply that it's some sort of defence to say that other countries
have done something bad in their *history*, so it's OK for you. It isn't.
sorry dear, but again, you're inferring that. i'm not implying it.
please, let's not interrupt the america bashing.
you repeatedly imply that it's some sort of defence to say that other countries
have done something bad in their *history*, so it's OK for you. It isn't.
sorry dear, but again, you're inferring that. i'm not implying it.
please, let's not interrupt the america bashing.
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anastrophe
- Posts: 3135
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 12:00 pm
Is America Bad?
Bill Sikes wrote: That was exactly the point. Thanks.
perhaps part of the problem is that it is not charity, thus your confusion in the matter. we provide foreign aid to struggling nations. as a taxpayer funded and government run endeavor, it is not reasonable for it to be given without 'conditions'. thus, by this lovely turn of phrase, because it *is* given with conditions, it is not by definition charity. problem solved!
perhaps part of the problem is that it is not charity, thus your confusion in the matter. we provide foreign aid to struggling nations. as a taxpayer funded and government run endeavor, it is not reasonable for it to be given without 'conditions'. thus, by this lovely turn of phrase, because it *is* given with conditions, it is not by definition charity. problem solved!
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