Technology makes passive life seducing
“The development of general ability for independent thinking and judgment should always be placed foremost, not the acquisition of specialized knowledge. --Albert Einstein
Our (US) society is not generally tuned to agree with Albert’s opinion. We generally consider education is a commodity, an object of commerce; generally our schools, colleges, and universities prepare us in a specific specialty so that we can fit directly into the cogs of the industrial machine when we graduate.
The “development of general ability for independent thinking and judgment must come after our school days are complete. If we do not begin this process of preparation for independent thinking quickly after schooling it is quite likely we will never acquire the judgment required of an independent critical thinker.
There is good reason to consider our first priority is to acquire the certificates necessary for a good job and then to focus our attention upon taking control of our life following our graduation.
There is a significant difference between life as it is typically lived and life as it could be. This difference can be lived provided one does not give into a passive role and develops an active roll in determining her or his future.
The passive learner rolls with the punches; s/he establishes habits that ‘work’, which allow him or her to ‘get by’. The passive learner seeks to integrate her or him self into the status quo.
Our technology makes a passive life seducing. The following two paragraphs are from a recent article in the Washington Post written by a reporter who had rented a car with a GPS guidance system.
Again and again, I turned off the calculated route — following my nose across country — and the G.P.S. patiently rearranged its plans. Now and then I heard it say, “Make a legal U-turn at the first opportunity, and I wondered if I was hearing a sigh of defeat in its crisp, female voice. I set out one morning for a nearly vanished Kansas town. “You have arrived! said the G.P.S., without irony, as we drove down the tumbleweed streets of our destination.
We fought only once, in Emporia. We were leaving the surface road and picking up the Kansas Turnpike. The instructions I heard flatly contradicted my sense of where we were, so I ignored them and found myself heading west, toward Salina, instead of northeast, toward Lawrence. It was a humbling experience. I stopped for coffee. When I started the car, the G.P.S. said, “Resume? Not a hint of told-you-so in its voice. I said yes, and let it lead me home.
The active learner establishes habits directed at constant improvement. I think that many people become active learners directing their efforts at maximizing production and consumption. In fact I guess the American life style is ‘to be the active learner running faster and faster on the industrial tread mill’. The values ingrained in us by our culture ‘tell us’ that that is the natural way to accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative. But there is another way to become an active learner and that is by self-actualization through self-learning directed not at becoming a better producer and consumer but upon establishing a broader perspective, by establishing a different value system.
How does a young person who has finished their schooling develop their own value system?
How does a young person develop a sound intellectual foundation upon which to build a life?
What is a sound intellectual foundation?
How does a young person learn to ask the important questions?
How does a young person find the answers to these questions?
How does a young person become an independent thinker when the culture is constantly singing a lullaby for slumber?
Technology makes passive life seducing
Technology makes passive life seducing
This is a thread that is intrinsically about the way the benefits of technology encourage people to be lazy, idle, and deficient in their ability to think, with a firm undertone that such cases are to be avoided at all costs.
This is also a thread that Coberst has copy/pasted (from 2006 originally as nearly as I can tell) into at least 3 forums in the past 1 hour.
I find this hypocritical in the extreme, to use such a lazy and idle means of communication to decry lazy and idle means of communication.
On other forums Coberst routinely cross-posts to, I have been in discussion with various moderators and senior members and we've determined a few things.
1/ Coberst constantly posts word-for-word versions of his threads in multiple places.
2/ Coberst constantly posts word-for-word replies into his threads in multiple places.
3/ Coberst gives virtually no evidence whatsoever that he even reads the responses of others unless they happen to agree with his position.
4/ Coberst gives little to no evidence that he -ever- reads a thread he did not start himself, and certainly is not active in discussion with other people about ideas that are not his own.
5/ Coberst is so extensive in his cross-posting inattentively with no respect for his fellow forummates, that he just this evening referenced something "One reader responded" in the very thread that person had made their statement, a statement he had -already- responded to earlier in the thread.
The general consensus cannot decide whether he is some combination of bot, cross-poster using blogging software to automate his posts, or simply a pseudo-academic who enjoys the sight of his own text online but is not at all interested in actually engaging people in discourse or even considering topics that are not of his own choosing.
His identical topics are easily found using google and his thread title, but I can happily provide links to other areas where identical topics and responses are being posted.
And while I understand the irony of the nature of my objection, given that I am as we speak following Coberst's example and pasting the same message onto multiple forums, I do so to expose the actions of someone who shows chronic disrespect for the users of multiple forums, by not even giving them the benefit of actually participating in their forum and community, instead choosing to simply pour logorrhea onto the internet, just to see himself speak.
This is also a thread that Coberst has copy/pasted (from 2006 originally as nearly as I can tell) into at least 3 forums in the past 1 hour.
I find this hypocritical in the extreme, to use such a lazy and idle means of communication to decry lazy and idle means of communication.
On other forums Coberst routinely cross-posts to, I have been in discussion with various moderators and senior members and we've determined a few things.
1/ Coberst constantly posts word-for-word versions of his threads in multiple places.
2/ Coberst constantly posts word-for-word replies into his threads in multiple places.
3/ Coberst gives virtually no evidence whatsoever that he even reads the responses of others unless they happen to agree with his position.
4/ Coberst gives little to no evidence that he -ever- reads a thread he did not start himself, and certainly is not active in discussion with other people about ideas that are not his own.
5/ Coberst is so extensive in his cross-posting inattentively with no respect for his fellow forummates, that he just this evening referenced something "One reader responded" in the very thread that person had made their statement, a statement he had -already- responded to earlier in the thread.
The general consensus cannot decide whether he is some combination of bot, cross-poster using blogging software to automate his posts, or simply a pseudo-academic who enjoys the sight of his own text online but is not at all interested in actually engaging people in discourse or even considering topics that are not of his own choosing.
His identical topics are easily found using google and his thread title, but I can happily provide links to other areas where identical topics and responses are being posted.
And while I understand the irony of the nature of my objection, given that I am as we speak following Coberst's example and pasting the same message onto multiple forums, I do so to expose the actions of someone who shows chronic disrespect for the users of multiple forums, by not even giving them the benefit of actually participating in their forum and community, instead choosing to simply pour logorrhea onto the internet, just to see himself speak.
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Betty Boop
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Technology makes passive life seducing
I'm hugely interested in philosphy etc and always read these threads but I have to admit that I never reply to them because
1) the threads are always written in textbook fashion and often hard to understand.
2) the poster never puts anything personal in, never offers up answers to his own (
i guess they're not his own) questions.
1) the threads are always written in textbook fashion and often hard to understand.
2) the poster never puts anything personal in, never offers up answers to his own (
i guess they're not his own) questions.Technology makes passive life seducing
just as I will excuse your irony Devon, I will ask you to excuse Coberst's irony, for both cases of irony allow for good intention.
...all you have accused him of really is re-posting and some incidence of cross posting, but just as you can be excused of your ironic reposting, he could be equally excused of his reposting by his belief in the importance of the material.
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
...all you have accused him of really is re-posting and some incidence of cross posting, but just as you can be excused of your ironic reposting, he could be equally excused of his reposting by his belief in the importance of the material.
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
Technology makes passive life seducing
Regardless of whether the topic was put forward in the best manner, I do have an opinion.
Were I a parent, I would definitely curtail my kids' use of passive entertainment devices (PEDs! I coined it! It's mine!) such as television, computers (although in actuality computers are one Hell of a lot more interactive than television) and the like. A natural laziness coupled with the dubious comfort of food and television combined to secure me an obese childhood and I wouldn't wish that on any child. I don't support forcing sports down their throats either, but it should be a parent's responsibility to see that children maintain a level of physical fitness. Good habits introduced early increase the odds of maintaining them in later years.
On another note regarding "personal technologies": I don't really see it as an advancement that cell phones have filled the streets and marketplaces with shuffling, muttering drones. They're like extras in a George Romero film but with better hygiene (well, most of them).
Were I a parent, I would definitely curtail my kids' use of passive entertainment devices (PEDs! I coined it! It's mine!) such as television, computers (although in actuality computers are one Hell of a lot more interactive than television) and the like. A natural laziness coupled with the dubious comfort of food and television combined to secure me an obese childhood and I wouldn't wish that on any child. I don't support forcing sports down their throats either, but it should be a parent's responsibility to see that children maintain a level of physical fitness. Good habits introduced early increase the odds of maintaining them in later years.
On another note regarding "personal technologies": I don't really see it as an advancement that cell phones have filled the streets and marketplaces with shuffling, muttering drones. They're like extras in a George Romero film but with better hygiene (well, most of them).
Technology makes passive life seducing
helgi;702334 wrote: just as I will excuse your irony Devon, I will ask you to excuse Coberst's irony, for both cases of irony allow for good intention.
...all you have accused him of really is re-posting and some incidence of cross posting, but just as you can be excused of your ironic reposting, he could be equally excused of his reposting by his belief in the importance of the material.
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
It is not every day that I encounter such a reasonable response as you have made. Thank you.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
...all you have accused him of really is re-posting and some incidence of cross posting, but just as you can be excused of your ironic reposting, he could be equally excused of his reposting by his belief in the importance of the material.
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
It is not every day that I encounter such a reasonable response as you have made. Thank you.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
Technology makes passive life seducing
I, Rob;702424 wrote: Regardless of whether the topic was put forward in the best manner, I do have an opinion.
Were I a parent, I would definitely curtail my kids' use of passive entertainment devises (PEDs! I coined it! It's mine!) such as television, computers (although in actuality computers are one Hell of a lot more interactive than television) and the like. A natural laziness coupled with the dubious comfort of food and television combined to secure me an obese childhood and I wouldn't wish that on any child. I don't support forcing sports down their throats either, but it should be a parent's responsibility to see that children maintain a level of physical fitness. Good habits introduced early increase the odds of maintaining them in later years.
On another note regarding "personal technologies": I don't really see it as an advancement that cell phones have filled the streets and marketplaces with shuffling, muttering drones. They're like extras in a George Romero film but with better hygiene (well, most of them).
Well said.
In light of my OP taking our technology craze to task I post this paragraphy from the newspaper.
'The single most effective weapon against our deployed forces'
By Rick Atkinson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 30, 2007; Page A01
"We all drank the Kool-Aid," said a retired Army officer who worked on counter-IED issues for three years. "We believed, and Congress was guilty as well, that because the United States was the technology powerhouse, the solution to this problem would come from science. That attitude was 'All we have to do is throw technology at it and the problem will go away.' . . . The day we lose a war it will be to guys with spears and loincloths, because they're not tied to technology. And we're kind of close to being there."
Were I a parent, I would definitely curtail my kids' use of passive entertainment devises (PEDs! I coined it! It's mine!) such as television, computers (although in actuality computers are one Hell of a lot more interactive than television) and the like. A natural laziness coupled with the dubious comfort of food and television combined to secure me an obese childhood and I wouldn't wish that on any child. I don't support forcing sports down their throats either, but it should be a parent's responsibility to see that children maintain a level of physical fitness. Good habits introduced early increase the odds of maintaining them in later years.
On another note regarding "personal technologies": I don't really see it as an advancement that cell phones have filled the streets and marketplaces with shuffling, muttering drones. They're like extras in a George Romero film but with better hygiene (well, most of them).
Well said.
In light of my OP taking our technology craze to task I post this paragraphy from the newspaper.
'The single most effective weapon against our deployed forces'
By Rick Atkinson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 30, 2007; Page A01
"We all drank the Kool-Aid," said a retired Army officer who worked on counter-IED issues for three years. "We believed, and Congress was guilty as well, that because the United States was the technology powerhouse, the solution to this problem would come from science. That attitude was 'All we have to do is throw technology at it and the problem will go away.' . . . The day we lose a war it will be to guys with spears and loincloths, because they're not tied to technology. And we're kind of close to being there."
Technology makes passive life seducing
coberst;702529 wrote: It is not every day that I encounter such a reasonable response as you have made. Thank you.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
I never truly criticized about posting the same topic in multiple places. My issue has always been that he posts -replies- in multiple places, including ones where his response makes no sense, which shows that he doesn't really care what other people say in his topics, and that he has to the best of my knowledge -never- taken part in any discussion on any forum that he didn't start himself.
The issue for me is that in forums that are supposed to be about the respectful exchange and discussion of ideas, all he seems to do is spout his own opinion in as many places as possible, almost never address the direct issues raised with his posts, and show no signs at all that he cares about the community in which he makes threads, except insofar as they can read what he has to say.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
I never truly criticized about posting the same topic in multiple places. My issue has always been that he posts -replies- in multiple places, including ones where his response makes no sense, which shows that he doesn't really care what other people say in his topics, and that he has to the best of my knowledge -never- taken part in any discussion on any forum that he didn't start himself.
The issue for me is that in forums that are supposed to be about the respectful exchange and discussion of ideas, all he seems to do is spout his own opinion in as many places as possible, almost never address the direct issues raised with his posts, and show no signs at all that he cares about the community in which he makes threads, except insofar as they can read what he has to say.
Technology makes passive life seducing
coberst;698750 wrote:
How does a young person who has finished their schooling develop their own value system?
Through experience and self meditation.
How does a young person develop a sound intellectual foundation upon which to build a life?
A "sound intellectual foundation" is not always necessary in order to build a life. I've known many mentally retarded, or as I like to say, differently abled, people who are more at peace with themselves and the world than some of the more [astute, educated people I've known.
Life isn't always about how much you know. I would guess it's more about how much you openly experience and come to terms with your own self-made reality.
What is a sound intellectual foundation?
There are as many differing opinions and answers as there are stars. Personally, I certainly don't believe a sound intellectual foundation begins with assuming that there is anything close to a "one size fits all" mentality or way to approach life. What works for one person may not work for another.
It is not usually necessary to define things when it involves the human brain and psyche. What would be the point? We are all so vastly different and yet so vastly the same. To label things and make them fit into a neat little box is to put shackles on the human existence.
How does a young person learn to ask the important questions?
Again, what one person finds to be an important question another person may find to be a mere passing triviality.
How does a young person find the answers to these questions?
Once this person knows what questions he's asking, the answers come in time. Personally, I believe it is more important to ask the question, to know what you want answered, than it is to actually receive that answer. I have found that, usually, we already have our own answers, we just need to know what the question is in order to access those answers. Again, experience and self meditation, I think, are key in this. To know oneself.
How does a young person become an independent thinker when the culture is constantly singing a lullaby for slumber?
At this point in my life, I believe you either are an independent thinker or you're not. Being an independent thinker is a personality trait, such as blue eyes is a physical trait. It either is or it isn't. At this point in time, for better or worse, we do not have "plastic surgery" for the brain to change our personalities, as we do to change our bodies.
How does a young person who has finished their schooling develop their own value system?
Through experience and self meditation.
How does a young person develop a sound intellectual foundation upon which to build a life?
A "sound intellectual foundation" is not always necessary in order to build a life. I've known many mentally retarded, or as I like to say, differently abled, people who are more at peace with themselves and the world than some of the more [astute, educated people I've known.
Life isn't always about how much you know. I would guess it's more about how much you openly experience and come to terms with your own self-made reality.
What is a sound intellectual foundation?
There are as many differing opinions and answers as there are stars. Personally, I certainly don't believe a sound intellectual foundation begins with assuming that there is anything close to a "one size fits all" mentality or way to approach life. What works for one person may not work for another.
It is not usually necessary to define things when it involves the human brain and psyche. What would be the point? We are all so vastly different and yet so vastly the same. To label things and make them fit into a neat little box is to put shackles on the human existence.
How does a young person learn to ask the important questions?
Again, what one person finds to be an important question another person may find to be a mere passing triviality.
How does a young person find the answers to these questions?
Once this person knows what questions he's asking, the answers come in time. Personally, I believe it is more important to ask the question, to know what you want answered, than it is to actually receive that answer. I have found that, usually, we already have our own answers, we just need to know what the question is in order to access those answers. Again, experience and self meditation, I think, are key in this. To know oneself.
How does a young person become an independent thinker when the culture is constantly singing a lullaby for slumber?
At this point in my life, I believe you either are an independent thinker or you're not. Being an independent thinker is a personality trait, such as blue eyes is a physical trait. It either is or it isn't. At this point in time, for better or worse, we do not have "plastic surgery" for the brain to change our personalities, as we do to change our bodies.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Technology makes passive life seducing
coberst;702529 wrote: It is not every day that I encounter such a reasonable response as you have made. Thank you.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
Oh please. Devonin consistently posts reasonable responses but I never see you thanking him and he certainly doesn't need any insulting. He's noticed a trend from you and he's bringing it to light. It genuinely concerns him, because as he's stated, it shows a disregard for the people you're trying to reach.
Devonin follows me about like a puppy making yapping sounds but s/he has not bitten anyone yet.
Oh please. Devonin consistently posts reasonable responses but I never see you thanking him and he certainly doesn't need any insulting. He's noticed a trend from you and he's bringing it to light. It genuinely concerns him, because as he's stated, it shows a disregard for the people you're trying to reach.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Technology makes passive life seducing
helgi;702334 wrote:
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
You're right, reposting doesn't necessarily constitute villainy or idleness. But, if he wants to reach a mass audience with the same material he should consider writing a book.
...Reposting does not constitute villainy or idleness
You're right, reposting doesn't necessarily constitute villainy or idleness. But, if he wants to reach a mass audience with the same material he should consider writing a book.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Technology makes passive life seducing
Devonin;698760 wrote: but I can happily provide links to other areas where identical topics and responses are being posted.
I'd actually be interested in those other sites. I'm curious what those other sites are about, anyway.
I'd actually be interested in those other sites. I'm curious what those other sites are about, anyway.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.
Technology makes passive life seducing
They're very easy to find, just google the title of any one of Coberst's threads from any time, and you'll find links to at least 4 forums where he's posted the same thread.
Technology makes passive life seducing
An easy way is to Google 'coberst forum'
Technology makes passive life seducing
Out of curiosity Coberst, have you actually engaged some forum option to make all of my posts not visible to you? Or are you actually simply reading what I say, and choosing to diliberately ignore me?
I'd really like to know whether you're an ostrich, refusing to look at anything you could percieve as a threat to your pretended great wisdom, or if you're actually electing, each and every time you read a reasoned, rational, logical and critical objection to something you've said, to just refuse to engage in the behavior you are so strenuously claiming that we all need to start doing.
Are you blind, or a hypocrite?
I'd really like to know whether you're an ostrich, refusing to look at anything you could percieve as a threat to your pretended great wisdom, or if you're actually electing, each and every time you read a reasoned, rational, logical and critical objection to something you've said, to just refuse to engage in the behavior you are so strenuously claiming that we all need to start doing.
Are you blind, or a hypocrite?
Technology makes passive life seducing
I'm still waiting for a response to the post I obviously wasted too much time on.
It is better to have your mind opened by wonder
than closed by belief.
than closed by belief.