Does a noose equal hate crime?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:38 am

U-Md. Responds to Possible Hate Crime

By Joe Holley

Washington Post Staff Writer

Monday, September 10, 2007; 2:44 PM

University of Maryland administrators moved quickly over the weekend to assure students and other members of the community that they were taking the possibility of a campus hate crime with the utmost seriousness.

"The University of Maryland will not tolerate discrimination, harassment or acts of hate," university President C. D. Mote Jr. wrote Saturday in a letter posted on the university's Web site.

Mote was responding to reports of a noose found hanging in a tree near a building that houses several African American campus organizations.

"The possibility that this act appears intended to bring to mind the horrific crime of lynching, which is such a terrible and tragic part of our nation's past, is particularly abhorrent," Mote wrote.

The noose, small and crudely tied, was found Thursday on a tree near the Nyumburu Cultural Center, home to the Black Faculty and Staff Association, the Black Explosion newspaper and other organizations.

Police said they have opened a criminal investigation and are treating the case as a hate crime.

In his letter, Mote wrote that the university's police chief, Kenneth W. Krouse, was reviewing all campus video equipment, examining physical evidence at the scene and meeting with students and other members of the campus community.

The incident was "highly unusual," said university spokesman Lee Tune.

In 1999, black student leaders and officials at the College Park campus received several racist threats of violence. An emotional rally against bigotry attracted approximately 2,000 people.

Figures compiled by Diverse magazine show that the University of Maryland graduates more African American students than any other public research university among the nation's top 25.

In 2006, African American students made up 12.9 percent of the university's 25,154 undergraduate students. Enrollment figures for 2007 are not yet available.

I have a problem with this. I don't understand how a noose equals a hate "crime." I agree it's repugnant but I don't think it's a crime. I don't think we need the law to dictate to us what we can and cannot think or to decide for us what feelings (as in hate) are acceptable. I think we can have more impact if we left it up to our own social ostracization.

What do you guys think?

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:53 am

my dear red its not a sign of love is it:)

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:06 am

el guapo;693441 wrote: my dear red its not a sign of love is it:)

Morning El Guapo!

No, it sure isn't, *but*.... as much as I dislike seeing it, I think calling a noose in a tree a hate crime is overdone. I don't think hate should be criminal. Right or wrong it's a human emotion. I don't think symbolizing one's hate for something or someone should be a crime either until it becomes physical. In other words I'll let the Ku Klux Klan wear their stupid pointy sheets and spout any hateful rhetoric they want to but the minute they touch someone, that becomes a crime. Not a crime of hate, but a crime of violence.

Post by **spot** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:23 am

RedGlitter;693443 wrote: No, it sure isn't, *but*.... as much as I dislike seeing it, I think calling a noose in a tree a hate crime is overdone.I'd call it one, given where it was.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:40 am

spot;693454 wrote: I'd call it one, given where it was.

I know what you mean, Spot, but I think that's still a rather preemptive bias.

I mean just because most lynchings transpired in the south should not make the hate any more criminal, IMO. That alone would be unjust in the face of fairness.

I suppose my main beef with it is that of censorship. I can't say anyone with a noose would have anything to say that I'd be interested in hearing but regardless of how repugnant their rhetoric is, I think they have a right to say it. If we start limiting free speech and freedom of expression for some, who's next? I feel in essence these hate crime laws are saying "You're wrong in what you feel, it's unacceptable and we will prosecute you for it." If a person has something against a certain ethnicity/religion/sexual persuasion/etc; I think that's their call. And if and when the hate exceeds restraint and someone gets physically hurt or infringed upon, that should be called assault or murder, whatever it is. Not "hate crime." It demeans the actual assault committed.

What do you think?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:28 am

:wah: :rolleyes: :wah:

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:51 am

jimbo;693492 wrote: no noose is good news

heaven noose what was going through there heads.......or round there heads

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:58 am

Maybe it was just a way of telling them to "Hang in there" things will get better.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:53 am

RedGlitter;693443 wrote: Morning El Guapo!

No, it sure isn't, *but*.... as much as I dislike seeing it, I think calling a noose in a tree a hate crime is overdone. I don't think hate should be criminal. Right or wrong it's a human emotion. I don't think symbolizing one's hate for something or someone should be a crime either until it becomes physical. In other words I'll let the Ku Klux Klan wear their stupid pointy sheets and spout any hateful rhetoric they want to but the minute they touch someone, that becomes a crime. Not a crime of hate, but a crime of violence.

overdone = err on the side of caution

Me thinks because so many lead up incidents happen without anyone paying attention to them and then after investigations we hear, "how did we miss the signs"

We have become a society of near paranoia.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:41 pm

I think it is an outright threat to the safety of the African Americans on campus. It's not like they threw little black sambo dolls into the tree. Nooses are symbols of death and should be treated as a death threat.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:55 pm

koan;693649 wrote: I think it is an outright threat to the safety of the African Americans on campus. It's not like they threw little black sambo dolls into the tree. Nooses are symbols of death and should be treated as a death threat.

Okay Koan, that's a good outlook on it...but where would we draw the line at what constitutes a death threat or even just a safety threat? Suppose I drive up with a confederate flag stuck on my car. There are a lot up people who would be a bit shook up by that and the racist factor would be there, intentional or not. Would that also constitute a death threat if I did this on a mostly Black campus?

Good argument.

PerfectAngel · Post by **PerfectAngel** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:19 pm

I swear some people are soooooo ignorant! WHY does anything with regards to a noose HAVE to ALWAYS be directed at africian americans? That is such a bunch of BULL! Did anyone ever think that maybe some girl cheated on her boyfriend....

boyfriend finds out......

boyfriend decides to try to scare the "other" guy who she cheated with by hanging the noose there.....

hence the statement "I'm going to kill you when I get my hands on you":yh_beatup,

or maybe "Your a deadman walking!":yh_beatup.

HELLO~ It's time to wake up society! :yh_loser

Post by **spot** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:34 am

magenta flame;693774 wrote: Anyone can beat up a Jew in the street, but mention anything or do anything that identifies the fact that you beat them up because they are Jewish is a crime.

I may be missing something obvious here... where in the world can anyone can beat up a Jew in the street without it being a crime?

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:03 am

PerfectAngel;693838 wrote: I swear some people are soooooo ignorant! WHY does anything with regards to a noose HAVE to ALWAYS be directed at africian americans? That is such a bunch of BULL! Did anyone ever think that maybe some girl cheated on her boyfriend....

boyfriend finds out......

boyfriend decides to try to scare the "other" guy who she cheated with by hanging the noose there.....

hence the statement "I'm going to kill you when I get my hands on you":yh_beatup,

or maybe "Your a deadman walking!":yh_beatup.

HELLO~ It's time to wake up society! :yh_loser

stunning.

You seem new so I'm going to just leaving it at... what a great example of denial. Oh... and I bet you'd be good at helping soap opera writers explain how the dead guy is still alive.

RedGlitter;693658 wrote: Okay Koan, that's a good outlook on it...but where would we draw the line at what constitutes a death threat or even just a safety threat? Suppose I drive up with a confederate flag stuck on my car. There are a lot up people who would be a bit shook up by that and the racist factor would be there, intentional or not. Would that also constitute a death threat if I did this on a mostly Black campus?

That is not a death threat as the symbolism of the flag is broader. I would bet that you would make a few enemies if you drove around with that flag in a black neighbourhood or on a campus but you aren't implying that you are going to build a hill and shoot people from it.

spot;693890 wrote: I may be missing something obvious here... where in the world can anyone can beat up a Jew in the street without it being a crime?

:D

I must be missing it as well.