http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/stor ... 38,00.html
There is no "ground swell" of public support for a change in the electoral system, according to the Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer.
Labour's comfortable Commons majority won on just 35% of the vote has brought calls for reform.
Tony Blair promised a referendum on electoral change in the party's 1997 manifesto.
However, the Prime Minister decided not to act on the recommendations of the review he ordered Lord Jenkins to carry out.
Lord Falconer said the Government remained unconvinced about the case for change so there was nothing for people to vote on.
"I don't think there is a real ground swell for change," the peer told the BBC Radio 4 Today programme.
Lord Falconer said the Government remained unconvinced about the case for change so there was nothing for people to vote on.
Oh gosh there's a big surprise, course they don't want to change it's the only way they get in to power. Let's just ignore 2/3rds of the electorate as irrelevant and kid ourselves we have a mandate to govern.
Rumour has it the latest advisers to Tony Blair moonlight writing scripts for jackanory. If true it could explain a lot.
No ground swell' for vote change
No ground swell' for vote change
gmc wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/stor ... 38,00.html
Oh gosh there's a big surprise, course they don't want to change it's the only way they get in to power. Let's just ignore 2/3rds of the electorate as irrelevant and kid ourselves we have a mandate to govern.
Rumour has it the latest advisers to Tony Blair moonlight writing scripts for jackanory. If true it could explain a lot.
I understand the arguments against the FPTP system gmc, but consider how parliament would work under a PR system. In almost every country that operates a PR system, their have been examples of how small parties hold the balance in forming a government, there have even been instances where a small party has switched from supporting the party in power to supporting the main opposition party, thereby changing the party in government without an election being held.
Oh gosh there's a big surprise, course they don't want to change it's the only way they get in to power. Let's just ignore 2/3rds of the electorate as irrelevant and kid ourselves we have a mandate to govern.
Rumour has it the latest advisers to Tony Blair moonlight writing scripts for jackanory. If true it could explain a lot.
I understand the arguments against the FPTP system gmc, but consider how parliament would work under a PR system. In almost every country that operates a PR system, their have been examples of how small parties hold the balance in forming a government, there have even been instances where a small party has switched from supporting the party in power to supporting the main opposition party, thereby changing the party in government without an election being held.
No ground swell' for vote change
I understand the arguements against PR as well. I find it ridiculaous that we have one of the most unpopular prime ministers in recent times and yet he has convinced himself there is a mandate to govern. I reckon if he sticks around the labour party will fall apart as their traditional support base gets thoroughly scunnered with the lot of them. Prime Ministerial governent is, IMO very bad for our democracy. People areshowing what they think by not voting as it seems to make little difference.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.
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capt_buzzard
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No ground swell' for vote change
gmc wrote: I understand the arguements against PR as well. I find it ridiculaous that we have one of the most unpopular prime ministers in recent times and yet he has convinced himself there is a mandate to govern. I reckon if he sticks around the labour party will fall apart as their traditional support base gets thoroughly scunnered with the lot of them. Prime Ministerial governent is, IMO very bad for our democracy. People areshowing what they think by not voting as it seems to make little difference.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.Nobody in the UK votes anymore.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.Nobody in the UK votes anymore.
No ground swell' for vote change
I find it ridiculaous that we have one of the most unpopular prime ministers in recent times
I’m a bit of a fan.
and yet he has convinced himself there is a mandate to govern.
The party that gets the most seats does have a mandate to govern.
I reckon if he sticks around the labour party will fall apart as their traditional support base gets thoroughly scunnered with the lot of them. Prime Ministerial governent is, IMO very bad for our democracy. People areshowing what they think by not voting as it seems to make little difference.
I think when TB goes the labour party will slide to the left and the conservatives will return to power.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.
Yes, all minor parties seem to favour of PR.
I’m a bit of a fan.
and yet he has convinced himself there is a mandate to govern.
The party that gets the most seats does have a mandate to govern.
I reckon if he sticks around the labour party will fall apart as their traditional support base gets thoroughly scunnered with the lot of them. Prime Ministerial governent is, IMO very bad for our democracy. People areshowing what they think by not voting as it seems to make little difference.
I think when TB goes the labour party will slide to the left and the conservatives will return to power.
Same with Maggie Thatcher she had only slightly more of the popular vote than TB, this swing from one to the pother is destructive. Interestingly enough Scottish Tories now support PR as it is the only way they get a seat in the Scottish parliament.
Yes, all minor parties seem to favour of PR.
No ground swell' for vote change
posted by TMC
The party that gets the most seats does have a mandate to govern
Moot Point. (UK Meaning)
TMC
I think when TB goes the labour party will slide to the left and the conservatives will return to power.
Most people in this country vote for the middle ground, current policies are losing them support in the labour heartlands. Losing ten seats in Scotland takes some doing-in sime places they would vote for a monkey in a red suit.
Not forgetting of course this little issue.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/po ... =496442005
Rifkind revives West Lothian question
EDDIE BARNES
LABOUR will find itself under renewed pressure to tackle the West Lothian question after last week’s election results, according to Sir Malcolm Rifkind.
The newly elected MP for Kensington and Chelsea said that the new make-up of the House of Commons made the issue of why Scottish MPs should vote on English affairs even more pressing.
He was speaking as analysis showed that, with Tony Blair’s majority cut to 67, Labour now relies entirely on the 70 seats of Scottish and Welsh MPs to pass legislation, even though those MPs do not represent their constituents on devolved matters.
The West Lothian question was first posed by former Labour MP Tam Dalyell. He asked if it was fair, post-devolution, for MPs from Scotland to be allowed to vote on English affairs when MPs in England could not vote on devolved Scottish matters.
Rifkind said: "Decisions that only effect England should only be decided by MPs in England. What this election has done is to emphasise that the politics are moving against the Labour party."
TMC
Yes, all minor parties seem to favour of PR.
For the same reason all the big parties are agin it. Incidentally 30% is not minor, arguably the minor parties would get more support if they were seen as an viable alternative. I would not give odds on th Tories recovering for some time.
TMC
I’m a bit of a fan.
I can't stand the smarmy git. He's a disgrace and so are the spineless twits in his cabinet.
The party that gets the most seats does have a mandate to govern
Moot Point. (UK Meaning)
TMC
I think when TB goes the labour party will slide to the left and the conservatives will return to power.
Most people in this country vote for the middle ground, current policies are losing them support in the labour heartlands. Losing ten seats in Scotland takes some doing-in sime places they would vote for a monkey in a red suit.
Not forgetting of course this little issue.
http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/po ... =496442005
Rifkind revives West Lothian question
EDDIE BARNES
LABOUR will find itself under renewed pressure to tackle the West Lothian question after last week’s election results, according to Sir Malcolm Rifkind.
The newly elected MP for Kensington and Chelsea said that the new make-up of the House of Commons made the issue of why Scottish MPs should vote on English affairs even more pressing.
He was speaking as analysis showed that, with Tony Blair’s majority cut to 67, Labour now relies entirely on the 70 seats of Scottish and Welsh MPs to pass legislation, even though those MPs do not represent their constituents on devolved matters.
The West Lothian question was first posed by former Labour MP Tam Dalyell. He asked if it was fair, post-devolution, for MPs from Scotland to be allowed to vote on English affairs when MPs in England could not vote on devolved Scottish matters.
Rifkind said: "Decisions that only effect England should only be decided by MPs in England. What this election has done is to emphasise that the politics are moving against the Labour party."
TMC
Yes, all minor parties seem to favour of PR.
For the same reason all the big parties are agin it. Incidentally 30% is not minor, arguably the minor parties would get more support if they were seen as an viable alternative. I would not give odds on th Tories recovering for some time.
TMC
I’m a bit of a fan.
I can't stand the smarmy git. He's a disgrace and so are the spineless twits in his cabinet.
No ground swell' for vote change
:-6
'evening all, randall here,
There are obvious truths in politics.
Those who do get into power by FPTP always agitate or advocate for a change in election system to PR.
Those who get into power unexpectedly, and it has happened, immediately forget their previous objections to FPTP and forget about their lobbying for PR.
I personally would like to see PR as I believe that it is fatal to have any party get a majority of landslide dimensions.
Many forget that Hitler was elected to office and even that wily old soldier, politician Hindenburg was taken in by him and handed him the reins of power over the German people.
The more parties in the House of Commons the better it is for us. Don't believe that continual refrain that it leads to unstable government - have we a stable government. I think not! NO MORE THAN ITALY!
Just like Mrs Thatcher, foreigners love Blair more than we do. He is definitely the son she never had and look where her son has ended up.
Today Charles KENNEDY said today that it took about 91,000 votes to elect each Liberal member of parliament but only 22,000 to elect each Labour MP
I am not surprised in the least because I have been saying that there is no real democracy in this country for at least the last twenty years and probably more.
I am also a believer that there is a "secret government" in every country and the politicians up front are merely puppets.
The TV programme about our ex-ambassador who dared to speak up in Blackburn did us all a favour - I wish we had more like him AND the man in the WHITE SUIT.
Independents are important in keeping a sensible balance or argument.
"All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" Move over Tony.
SOMEBODY might be thinking of manning the barricades?
God bless all.
randall
'evening all, randall here,
There are obvious truths in politics.
Those who do get into power by FPTP always agitate or advocate for a change in election system to PR.
Those who get into power unexpectedly, and it has happened, immediately forget their previous objections to FPTP and forget about their lobbying for PR.
I personally would like to see PR as I believe that it is fatal to have any party get a majority of landslide dimensions.
Many forget that Hitler was elected to office and even that wily old soldier, politician Hindenburg was taken in by him and handed him the reins of power over the German people.
The more parties in the House of Commons the better it is for us. Don't believe that continual refrain that it leads to unstable government - have we a stable government. I think not! NO MORE THAN ITALY!
Just like Mrs Thatcher, foreigners love Blair more than we do. He is definitely the son she never had and look where her son has ended up.
Today Charles KENNEDY said today that it took about 91,000 votes to elect each Liberal member of parliament but only 22,000 to elect each Labour MP
I am not surprised in the least because I have been saying that there is no real democracy in this country for at least the last twenty years and probably more.
I am also a believer that there is a "secret government" in every country and the politicians up front are merely puppets.
The TV programme about our ex-ambassador who dared to speak up in Blackburn did us all a favour - I wish we had more like him AND the man in the WHITE SUIT.
Independents are important in keeping a sensible balance or argument.
"All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" Move over Tony.
SOMEBODY might be thinking of manning the barricades?
God bless all.
randall
No ground swell' for vote change
randall back again,
Through the letter box tumbled eight identical envelopes the end result of nearly a very weary and wearing year of applying for the so-called tax credit.
"Go on. Take it. It's your money."
I resisted it for a long time all the people I know. You get nothing for nothing and you'll be a fool to apply. They ALL said. How right they were.
A lady telephoned me - a civil servant, I assume - and asked why I hadn't applied for tax credits. "Even if you don't qualify you can't be worse off than you are now."
She must have posted the form that night because I received it next day but took a long, long time to dare to fill it in.
These letters told me that I OWE THEM £258 because I had failed to tell them - accidentally - about a £104/annum pension I get from a Norwegian company I worked for once - paid by the quarter. £26 (not inflation proof - static.)
I asked them if I had to pay it in a lump sum - oh no, we will tell you how to pay it off. Today I received more demands for 2 x £80 and 1 x £53 to be paid before the 3rd October.
Already deep in debt, I could hardly believe it
Looks as if more debt is in the offing just to pay for my tax credits.
Now I am seriously wondering if it is the invention of a twisted mind to make sure that they get every detail of your affairs out of you.
I was stupid enough to believe that the Inland Revenue knew everything there was to know about me and that the council had access to these files.
Ah celavie my friend or something like that.
God bless.
randall
:-6