Calling Diabetics!

[RedGlitter]

A couple years ago I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, caused by a drug, Zyprexa, that I was taking at the time.

I take 36 units of insulin (Novolog Mix 70/30) twice a day and Metformin (generic Glucophage) twice daily.

I admit I do not pay much mind to what I eat other than I usually avoid sugared soda and I don't eat many sweets very often.

I saw a dietician one time and by the end of the session, I was totally confused as to how to count my food. I have books on it but I still don't really understand how to do it and it's a pain anyway.

But...I know the dangers of this disease too so I'm thinking maybe I should learn.

So how do you handle your diabetes?

Do you adjust your own units of insulin or rely on just what the doctor says to use?

Are you able to control it with exercise and diet or do you have to take pills and/or insulin?

Metformin pills smell really bad and taste yuccky. Does anyone else notice this? Do we know what's in them?

Can diabetes ever be reversed once you get it?

For those who take insulin, how do you deal with the scar tissue lumps that form? Right now they're not that bad but if I have to do this all my life, will I be one walking lump?

Where do you choose to inject? I take it in my stomach or closer to my side or occasionally my thigh. The arm hurts too much.

Those are some of my questions. Any advice you might have would be really appreciated too. Thanks.

[KB.]

I've been an insulin dependant diabetic for 21 years now. I used to take the shots in my stomach, but don't anymore. The scar tissue ain't bad but do it for twenty years and it wont go anywhere. I use my arm now, its easy to get to, and the needles are tiny, they don't nother me. I don't eat sweets, if I drink a plain coke it is because my sugar is low and that is all I have handy. You have to watch starches, all they are is a simple sugar. My diabetes I am afraid is doing something it shouldn't be doing. I used to take 20-30 units of 70/30 twice daily, but now I take 4 or 5 shots of 10 units of the R (fast acting) (me medicating myself, it works for the time being). I love food, especially starches. I'm going ot have to make a decesion as someone who isn't a teenager anymore to take better care of myself or it'll kill me. Get diabetics for dummies, I know it sounds cheesy, but it will help.

[RedGlitter]

KB.;632249 wrote: I've been an insulin dependant diabetic for 21 years now. I used to take the shots in my stomach, but don't anymore. The scar tissue ain't bad but do it for twenty years and it wont go anywhere. I use my arm now, its easy to get to, and the needles are tiny, they don't nother me. I don't eat sweets, if I drink a plain coke it is because my sugar is low and that is all I have handy. You have to watch starches, all they are is a simple sugar. My diabetes I am afraid is doing something it shouldn't be doing. I used to take 20-30 units of 70/30 twice daily, but now I take 4 or 5 shots of 10 units of the R (fast acting) (me medicating myself, it works for the time being). I love food, especially starches. I'm going ot have to make a decesion as someone who isn't a teenager anymore to take better care of myself or it'll kill me. Get diabetics for dummies, I know it sounds cheesy, but it will help.


Yep, I hear that. I know about the blindness, kidney failure, amputations, and all that and yet I still think I'm immortal. Time to knock that off.

I actually do have Diabetes for Dummies. I will get it back out and start going through it. Thank you for reminding me.

I'm with you on the starches. Those are hard to stay away from.

I started at 25 units and they increased me so that's not too good.

I was taking Actos as well until I read that it can damage one's teeth so I quit that on my own.

Thanks for replying.

[Lon]

RedGlitter;632236 wrote: A couple years ago I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, caused by a drug, Zyprexa, that I was taking at the time.

I take 36 units of insulin (Novolog Mix 70/30) twice a day and Metformin (generic Glucophage) twice daily.

I admit I do not pay much mind to what I eat other than I usually avoid sugared soda and I don't eat many sweets very often.

I saw a dietician one time and by the end of the session, I was totally confused as to how to count my food. I have books on it but I still don't really understand how to do it and it's a pain anyway.

But...I know the dangers of this disease too so I'm thinking maybe I should learn.

So how do you handle your diabetes?

Do you adjust your own units of insulin or rely on just what the doctor says to use?

Are you able to control it with exercise and diet or do you have to take pills and/or insulin?

Metformin pills smell really bad and taste yuccky. Does anyone else notice this? Do we know what's in them?

Can diabetes ever be reversed once you get it?

For those who take insulin, how do you deal with the scar tissue lumps that form? Right now they're not that bad but if I have to do this all my life, will I be one walking lump?

Where do you choose to inject? I take it in my stomach or closer to my side or occasionally my thigh. The arm hurts too much.

Those are some of my questions. Any advice you might have would be really appreciated too. Thanks.


Just curious, but did you happen to sue? I think Eli Lilly was the maker of that particular drug, zyprexa.

[KB.]

I hate to use the word lucky with the worlds 6th ( I think) biggest killer, but you are lucky to get it now rather than younger. Hormones can really screw it up, as can any thing from a flu to a stomach virus. Ive been in a coma (not long), had no blood pressure, and once lost 60 pounds in two weeks because of it. I look at it being the thing that kept me from heading to the woods and living like a hermit, hard to get insulin when your pharmacist is a bear.

[KB.]

As far as counting foods. Don't let it overwhelm you, do as I say not as I do. Eat healthy, veggies, fruit (you have to do some research there due to their high sugar content), lean meat, etc. Walk, I do at least do that. Stay away from sweets. Just eat healthy. Forget a fad diet, it ain't rocket science.

[RedGlitter]

Thanks for the good advice, KB. I will take it.

I didn't know that about hormones and viruses. I had no idea. 60 pounds in 2 weeks? And a coma? It sounds like you're the lucky one here. To be alive that is.

Lon, yes, I am presently in a lawsuit with Eli Lilly. It's a class action suit so I doubt I will see much which upsets me but it's a suit nevertheless. Zyprexa is a great drug in my opinion but the fact they knew it would very likely make me (or anyone!) a diabetic and they didn't tell anyone but the doctors, who didn't tell their patients, is criminal, I think.

[Nyx]

RedGlitter;632312 wrote: Thanks for the good advice, KB. I will take it.

I didn't know that about hormones and viruses. I had no idea. 60 pounds in 2 weeks? And a coma? It sounds like you're the lucky one here. To be alive that is.

Lon, yes, I am presently in a lawsuit with Eli Lilly. It's a class action suit so I doubt I will see much which upsets me but it's a suit nevertheless. Zyprexa is a great drug in my opinion but the fact they knew it would very likely make me (or anyone!) a diabetic and they didn't tell anyone but the doctors, who didn't tell their patients, is criminal, I think.


May i ask what Zyprexa is taken for? How long have you been a diabetic because of it?

[Marie5656]

My husband was diagnosed with Type 2 about 6 years ago. He is not insulin dependant, but does take metformin and other drugs. His diabetes is under control now...but he will never be "cured".

He went from having to measure his glucose level twice a day to doing it just once or twice a week.

I got a copy of Dr. Phil's calorie count book and it really seemed to help, as it gives so much other information also.

[RedGlitter]

Nyx;632430 wrote: May i ask what Zyprexa is taken for? How long have you been a diabetic because of it?


It's a drug for bipolar disorder (manic-depression.) I've had diabetes for umm... I think it's been three years now.

[weinbeck]

RedGlitter;632236 wrote: A couple years ago I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, caused by a drug, Zyprexa, that I was taking at the time.

I take 36 units of insulin (Novolog Mix 70/30) twice a day and Metformin (generic Glucophage) twice daily.

I admit I do not pay much mind to what I eat other than I usually avoid sugared soda and I don't eat many sweets very often.

I saw a dietician one time and by the end of the session, I was totally confused as to how to count my food. I have books on it but I still don't really understand how to do it and it's a pain anyway.

But...I know the dangers of this disease too so I'm thinking maybe I should learn.

So how do you handle your diabetes?

Do you adjust your own units of insulin or rely on just what the doctor says to use?

Are you able to control it with exercise and diet or do you have to take pills and/or insulin?

Metformin pills smell really bad and taste yuccky. Does anyone else notice this? Do we know what's in them?

Can diabetes ever be reversed once you get it?

For those who take insulin, how do you deal with the scar tissue lumps that form? Right now they're not that bad but if I have to do this all my life, will I be one walking lump?

Where do you choose to inject? I take it in my stomach or closer to my side or occasionally my thigh. The arm hurts too much.

Those are some of my questions. Any advice you might have would be really appreciated too. Thanks.


Like half the country, I had no idea I was type 2 diabetic until I had to go into hospital for an operation, where thy picked up on it immediately. The main problem with type 2 tablets only is the fact that we don't take it seriously enough. Half the time I forget to take the tablets, and the other half of the time I'm so over the top on what I eat, I don't think it would have much of an effect anyway. The problem with taking tablets is if you don't feel them doing you any good, you tend not to bother. I'm on seven tablets a day. If I felt as sick as a parrot by not taking them, it would make me sit up and take note.

I asked my nurse about type 2 - can it be reversed. The straight answer is NO. Once you have it, its there for life. All you can do is try to control it, by eating oily fish, and cutting down on the obvious. The only side effect it does have is on the physical relationship of a couple. Not so much women, but men will find the more drugs they have to take, the more difficult it will be to get a lasting erection. Thus said, compared to type 1 where insulin injections are required, erectile disfunction is a small cross to bear, and before you think about Viagra, remember in a very small number of cases one of the side effects affect the recipients eyesight. No matter how slight the risk, is it one you're prepared to take? I'm not.

[Peg]

From the time I was 6 years old, my dad was on insulin. He had a respect for the disease. His was the most controlled diabetes I have ever seen. If his sugar was elevated, it usually meant an infection some where. My husband on the other hand, does not give the disease the respect it deserves even with his mother on dialysis because of it. The one food that he does avoid is rice. Rice sends his sugar skyrocketing. Pasta does not have nearly the impact rice does on his. He takes a shot of fast acting insulin after each meal, and a shot of regular insulin at night. His sugar is more controlled now that he is working again. When he was laid off, it was always high. He gets more exercise at work and exercise is very important with diabetes. It's a constant battle to get him to have the bloodwork done every 3 months. It's not that he fears needles, it's just he does not think this disease can affect him.

His sugar once dropped so low, he called me and sounded drunk. By the time the ambulance got to him, he did not know his name, address, phone number, etc. It was up to 26 after two orange juices and a candy bar. How he survived it, I'll never know.

When his sugar is high, he gets extrememly irritable. One time we were out with friends. He left, locked me out, and had no clue about it the next day. I think that in itself would make me want to keep it under control.

Watch steroid injections also with diabetes. At one time, workers comp insisted he get an injection. I had to fight them because he could have gone into a diabetic coma.

Respect the disease. Have the bloodwork done religiously. It can be controlled or it can control you.

[bigears]

I was diagnosed as Type I (need insulin injections) about four years ago after being admitted to hospital with what turned out to be pancreatitis. I inject 3x12 units of novorapid before meals and 20 units of insulatard before sleeping. I assume unit measures in the Uk are same as in the US.

I've had to increase my insulin dose over the years; for the first three months after leaving hospital my blood sugar readings were fine on the prescribed dosage but they started getting higher. At first I talked to teh hospital about increasing the dosage but they advised me to adjust as I felt was right. I see my local GP every few months now and will talk to him although he's not an expert and will refer me to a diabetes nurse if neccessary.

I still find my readings tend to be on the high side but get hypos if the insulin doses get too big.

I found it a bit reassuring to hear that other people get confused about what foods to eat. Carbohydrates eg pasta or rice with every meal seem to work well, potatoes are Ok too...no carbs and the chances of a hypo increase. But I can't get myself obsessed with eating right. Timing of meals is also a problem, my work means I sometimes eat irregularly.

On the whole I'm Ok , the hypos are a real drag but I find I get so tired easily.

Injecting I use the side of my stomac, its easiest place, - particularly when I inject at my desk at work - but you have to watch for residue build up under the skin - try to use different places when practicable.

And no - diabetes is with ya for ever, until some miracle cure comes along!

[RedGlitter]

You guys are sure giving me a lot of valuable feedback. Thank you.

I am sheepish to admit it's been over a month since I tested my blood. I take the shots and pills regularly but I don't think to do the blood. For about a month back there, I got that burnout I've heard about where you just want to shove the whole mess and I was tired of sticking myself. But then I got past that.

What is this residue under the skin you speak of, BigEars? Is that anything like the scar tissue?

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate your taking time to answer.

[KB.]

RedGlitter;632585 wrote: You guys are sure giving me a lot of valuable feedback. Thank you.

I am sheepish to admit it's been over a month since I tested my blood. I take the shots and pills regularly but I don't think to do the blood. For about a month back there, I got that burnout I've heard about where you just want to shove the whole mess and I was tired of sticking myself. But then I got past that.

What is this residue under the skin you speak of, BigEars? Is that anything like the scar tissue?

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate your taking time to answer.


You can feel little pocket like areas. Thats a bad description, it is like scar tissue, you know what I am saying. The only place I have that is in my belly, but like I said I gave my shots there for the better part of the 21 years I have been taking them. Imagine, at least two shots a day, every day, for 21 years. I've never had problems elsewhere, most likely because the stomach is already a natural area for fatty deposits, and the shots don't help that. It isn't bad regardless, you would never know just by looking at me, fat or skinny.

I hear great things about the pump, but I find it obtrusive, I think it would be a constant source of worry, aggravation and caution when doing the things that we do with the ones we love after midnight. I have also heard it is a pain if you like to swim. The doctors will tell you one thing, but I took my information from three males, my age, and their significant others.

After over 16,000 shots it just is habit now.

[Peg]

RedGlitter;632585 wrote: You guys are sure giving me a lot of valuable feedback. Thank you.

I am sheepish to admit it's been over a month since I tested my blood. I take the shots and pills regularly but I don't think to do the blood. For about a month back there, I got that burnout I've heard about where you just want to shove the whole mess and I was tired of sticking myself. But then I got past that.

What is this residue under the skin you speak of, BigEars? Is that anything like the scar tissue?

Thanks for all your replies. I appreciate your taking time to answer.


My husband has to test his before his nightly shot. If it's under 200 and he takes his shot, it drops it too low. Doctors want it what? Between 90 and 110 or something like that? He feels like crap if his is below 120.

Does rice affect anyone else here the way it does him? Pasta, bread, and potatoes don't affect it nearly as much as rice.

[KB.]

Peg;632733 wrote: My husband has to test his before his nightly shot. If it's under 200 and he takes his shot, it drops it too low. Doctors want it what? Between 90 and 110 or something like that? He feels like crap if his is below 120.

Does rice affect anyone else here the way it does him? Pasta, bread, and potatoes don't affect it nearly as much as rice.


Rice never bothered me, is he putting sugar in it? Nothing really bothers me unless it is just something with a lot of sugar in it, natural or otherwise. The pasta and bread if simple starches should cause more issues than rice. Thats weird, but everyone is different. I can get to 60's with my blood sugar and feel fine.

[RedGlitter]

KB.;632591 wrote:

I hear great things about the pump, but I find it obtrusive, I think it would be a constant source of worry, aggravation and caution when doing the things that we do with the ones we love after midnight. I have also heard it is a pain if you like to swim. The doctors will tell you one thing, but I took my information from three males, my age, and their significant others.

After over 16,000 shots it just is habit now.


I feel the same way about the pump. To me personally, it's just a little too creepy. I don't think twice about the injections and most times I don't even feel them. Habit, like you said.

[Peg]

KB.;635661 wrote: Rice never bothered me, is he putting sugar in it? Nothing really bothers me unless it is just something with a lot of sugar in it, natural or otherwise. The pasta and bread if simple starches should cause more issues than rice. Thats weird, but everyone is different. I can get to 60's with my blood sugar and feel fine.


No, he doesn't put sugar in it. I guess it's the way his body breaks it down. When I make cabbage rolls or stuffed peppers, I use those wee tiny little noodles instead of rice. The flavor is better because it seems as if the noodles absorb the taste better, and it is way safer for him.

If his gets in the 60s, he starts shaking and sweating.

[RedGlitter]

I recently saw a tv ad promoting insulin. The actors were going on about how they had feared switching to insulin but once they did, they lost their fear and the insulin helped them. I've heard about this insulin fear before. What's the story behind that? My blood sugar was in the 560 range when I started and my doctor put me on Actos, Metformin and insulin to start with. I never felt any concern so I don't understand what the deal is?

Also, I was looking into Actos' side effects and properties and one of the problems associated with it is damage to the teeth. I quit taking it pronto and let my doctor know why. She didn't understand why I would be concerned. I really value my teeth.

She also put me on 5 mg of Lisinopril which is a blood pressure medication. She felt my pressure was too high and she also wanted me on it because she said this drug has the side benefit of protecting diabetic kidneys from damage. Anyone else using this?

I haven't been as I was taking 7 different drugs at one time and was having trouble breathing. (Could be the thyroid pill I am told) So I stopped everything but insulin and Metformin and have to start adding one drug at a time to see which one is the offender. Too dang many pills! But that's a different subject.

[KB.]

I've never taken anything but insulin. Insulin is basically what the pancreas would naturally produce to help break down sugars, but since my pancreas is broker than a mfer I get it through a shot. It isn't very expensive. You can get a generic 70/30 mix for 20 bucks usually. I use two different kinds like some others have posted. I have no idea what "fear" of insulin they were talking about. Insulin isn't even a prescription required drug.

[Joe]

Thanks to RedGlitter for directing me to this thread.



I was diagnosed as insulin dependent (type 1, I think, but I feel this is an unhelpful label as it doesn't say what sort of diabetes you have, better to say insulin dependent or tablet/diet controlled, then the listener knows what you mean!)



I was diagnosed at age 17 so most of the pubescent hormonal, growth spurt (or whatever!) stuff was pretty settled by then. I didn't know puberty messes up control, but it follows as it messes up pretty much everything else at that age too!! I had a reletavely easy introduction to the condition (apart from the sense of injustice, why me?, & geting used to the diet & injection routine), & luckily my control so far is mosty good.



I have 2 insulin types, a long acting one (called Lantis) which I take in the morning, & a short acting one (called novorapid) which I take before meals. I also have an extra dose of the short acting if I'm naughty & eat sweets or stuff I shouldn't during the day!



I inject in the fat at the bottom of my stomach, just above where my trouser belt is. This is pretty much painless (most times!) for me, it's also easiest to get to. Everywhere else that was suggested, (thigh, arms, bottom) is so horribly painful & damned awkward it was a case of hell no, no way!!! Injections there are like dentist injections, maybe (just about) bearable once a year, but regularly done & I'd be a neurotic wreck!!



Fatty(?) lumps were mentioned on injection sites. I have little ones on my favourite injection sites (at the sides of my stomach), but by rotating the injection places as much as my pain threshold allows me to these don't seem to be growing, (thank God!!!!)



I also have metformin tablets, but I often forget to take them & feel no ill affects afterwards. I don't even know what they're supposed to do!!



For me the secret of good control is regular blood testing. Then if my blood is too high I just take a small extra dose of short acting there & then. If it's too low I eat something sweet. The trouble is I have a sweet tooth so it's no good me keeping chocolate for this, I'd eat it as soon as buying it, no willpower at all! But I do find a jar of runny honey is good as an emergency standby, or failing that the jar of sugar I keep for guests' coffee.



I'm puzzled that lots of people call diabetes a 'disease'. It isn't a disease, it's a condition. And yes, you've got it for life.



Yes, medical research is making some promising breakthroughs, there's pills now coated with something so the insulin isn't destroyed by the stomach acid, but it seems a cure is still a very long way off. Some other promising work was done transplanting the Islets of Langerhans cells (the things that make the insulin) into the liver, these took root & worked for about 3 years in the research I read, but it still wasn't a cure (& the worry of playing the waiting game - when will they stop working) would always be on your mind so you could never truely relax & feel 'normal' again. Stem cell research may have the answer one day, but I'm 41 now & I doubt it'll be ready for all who want it in my lifetime.



I used to wonder why a pancreas transplant can't be done. I think of that as being less complex than a heart transplant, (or liver, or kidney, or lung, or whatever!) transplant, but i'm no medic & don't know all the ins & outs of the problem. Also, if you have to keep taking drugs to stop the body rejecting it you're no better off than you were before!



When I used to go hypo I used to feel a trembly sensation, & also a light headedness (a bit like being drunk). Then after about 10 years that suddenly stopped (maybe due to going on human rather than cow or pig insulin which I believe they used to get it from back then!) Now I find I yawn a lot (this is an early warning, not always reliable as I may just be very tired), & also I sweat a lot, & I feel my brain slowing down, not processing thoughts properly, obvious things seem so hard to grasp & follow through, basically I just function a hell of a lot slower & get confused at so easy things. Taken as a cluster of symptoms together it's reliable as I recognise them. I notice this myself, & others notice it too. But I did used to have an embarrasment going hypo & try & pretend I was OK, going sort of defensive about it,especially when well meaning friends were trying to get me to eat something & force food down me when i didn't want to eat & be bullied & pushed around. Anyone may know how hard it can be being forced to eat something you don't want to eat or when you don't want to eat it, it IS humiliating, but this is addressed in some diabetic sources, (they say the person helping should say something like look, I'm having some too, then actually eat it while the hypo diabetic can see.



I think it's very important your friends & work colleagues know you're diabetic & know you may seem a bit unreasonable at the time, but that you'll be OK about it afterwards. It's also important that they're sensitive & know how you feel during the hypo, so they know how you'll react in your unreasonable state when you may not realise they're only doing it to help you, not humiliate you.



Well that's enough of a ramble from me!! Thanks to others who have posted in this thread & shared how the conditon affects you. It's nice to share experiences of a condition like this with others who REALLY understand, as most of the time it's not something you want to go on about when you're trying to have as normal a life as other people, & don't want to keep making yourself seem & feel different.

[KB.]

The main reason a pancreas transplant isn't done is because it generally causes your body to reject the kidneys and liver. Unless all three of those are failing you won't get one, and by that time you probably still won't as they almost have to be from the same person. Now that is what I was told when I asked the question, how much fact is in it I have no idea.

[RedGlitter]

Thanks Joe for replying! I am learning so much from everyone in this thread.

I have a couple questions...

How do they derive human insulin? I'm starting to wonder about cadavers but my mind is working overtime, I hope. Does anyone know how it's obtained? I've tried looking it up to no avail.

I take Metformin and those pills reek. They taste terrible too. You know how sometimes medications are like say, garlic, and they can permeate through your skin? I hate taking Metformin because I don't want that smell to come off of me or mess things up in a more....intimate instance....do you know what I'm asking here...? People have told me I have nothing to worry about but I'd prefer to hear it from diabetics who know what I'm really asking.

What is Metformin made of that makes it taste and smell so gross?

I wasn't aware of those Islet things. I have so much to learn about this stuff.

I use my stomach 99% of the time for injections and it rarely hurts me. Usually I don't even feel the needle go in. I use the finest, shortest needle they make but I've also used the long ones and they creep me out a little. Taking it in the thigh is easy for me too normally but the arm forget it. That just plain hurts!

I switched to vial and syringe because my insurance covers those but for travel I use the pens.

[Joe]

RedGlitter;645901 wrote: Thanks Joe for replying! I am learning so much from everyone in this thread.

I have a couple questions...



How do they derive human insulin? I'm starting to wonder about cadavers but my mind is working overtime, I hope. Does anyone know how it's obtained? I've tried looking it up to no avail.


Hi RedGlitter,



Cadavers, hahaha!!!, sorry vicar, you can't bury that body yet, need to suck the insulin out!!!!! hahaha!! Actually I think human insulin is made when it's needed & there wouldn't be much to harvest anyway!



I'd just say human insulin was made using genetic engineering type stuff to match the needs of the human body (& how it works) as closely as possible. Scientists can do wonderfully clever stuff at molecular level nowadays



I did a Google search for you & got the following sites that may help.



http://www.diabetesuffolk.com/Managing% ... erview.asp



http://www.madehow.com/Volume-7/Insulin.html



I've learned a lot from this thread too, thanks for starting it.

[RedGlitter]

Thanks Joe, for that info! It put my mind to rest.

Geez, yesterday I somehow stuck the needle in wrong and my middle was burning the rest of the day! That rarely happens but when it does, well you wouldn't think such a tiny needle would hurt so much!

Thanks for being part of this thread!

[RedGlitter]

My doctor put me on Lisinopril, a hypertension pill because my BP was slightly high and runs in the family, but more so because she said this drug helps protects diabetic kidneys. I was taking it but I stopped because I felt weird about it, wasn't sure I really needed it. I was taking 7 different medications and wanted to weed some out because one of them was leaving me short of breath and I didn't know which one. I felt I was too young to be on that much Rx.

Anyway, are any of you guys taking Lisinopril for this reason? What do you think about it?

[RedGlitter]

Two Diabetes Drugs Double Heart Failure Risk: Study

07.27.07, 12:00 AM ET FRIDAY, July 27 (HealthDay News) -- Patients taking either of the diabetes drugs Avandia or Actos face twice the risk of developing heart failure compared to people not on the popular medications, a new study finds. This means for every 50 patients with type 2 diabetes taking these drugs, one patient will develop heart failure within 26 months, according to the report released Friday and published in the August issue of Diabetes Care.

"Both Avandia and Actos double the risk of heart failure," concluded the lead author of the first study, Dr. Sonal Singh, an assistant professor of internal medicine at Wake Forest University School of Medicine. "We know these drugs increase the risk, but we found the risk is more substantial than suspected. This occurs at even the lowest dose and among young patients."

The report follows a U.S. government review released Thursday that found Avandia's heart risks are far higher than Actos'. That report sets the stage for an advisory panel hearing Monday that will examine whether Avandia's cardiovascular risks warrant a stronger warning label.

Avandia (rosiglitazone) and Actos (pioglitazone) are from the same family of diabetes drugs and used by more than 3 million diabetic patients across the United States.

The current product label warns against using these drugs in patients with more severe cases of heart failure. The label also warns that there is an increased risk of heart failure if the drugs are used in combination with insulin.

Singh's group, however, found that the risk wasn't limited to patients on insulin, and it was present even among patients without any risk factors for heart failure.

The government study, by a medical and safety review team at the Food and Drug Administration, found that patients are at much higher risk of heart problems if they take Avandia, compared to patients taking Actos. Avandia is especially hazardous to patients who are already on insulin, the report found, whereas Actos users can take insulin as well without fearing cardiac side effects, the New York Times reported.

That data could help decide whether or not Avandia remains on drug store shelves, experts said.

"A critical question to be resolved in determining appropriate regulatory action is whether the anticipated therapeutic benefit of rosiglitazone outweighs the demonstrated cardiovascular risk," one FDA reviewer concluded according to the Times report.

In the Diabetes Care study, Singh's team collected data on more than 78,000 patients taking either of the drugs. These patients were included in previously published studies and in case reports.

Not only did the drugs double the risk of heart failure, but the increased risk was seen with both high and low doses, the team found.

Heart failure developed in some patients taking lower doses than are commonly prescribed. The average time for heart failure to develop was 24 weeks after starting the drugs, the researchers found.

Heart failure wasn't confined to older patients. Twenty-five percent of the patients who developed heart failure were under 60. In addition, both men and women developed heart failure while taking the drugs, Singh noted.

Singh's group suspect that Avandia and Actos may boost heart failure risk by encouraging fluid retention.

Current guidelines allow the use of these drugs in patients with early-stage heart failure. "Based on our information, that may have to change," Singh said.

Singh noted that there are alternative drugs available. "Doctors should be aware of the risk," he said. "Patients who are on these drugs and start developing symptoms of heart failure should see their doctor immediately, and patients not on these drugs should look at alternatives."

One expert believes that patients taking Avandia and Actos face not only an increased risk of heart failure, but also a 43 percent increased risk of heart attack.

"This hazard of heart failure is pretty well known for these drugs," said Dr. Steven E. Nissen, chairman of the department of cardiovascular medicine at the Cleveland Clinic. He noted that, in May, the FDA said it was going to mandate a "black box" warning about heart failure risk on the labels of these drugs.

That same month, Nissen published a paper in the New England Journal of Medicine that found that Avandia increased the risk of heart attack.

Since then, the controversy has continued, with both sides weighing in.

On Thursday, Mary Anne Rhyne, a spokeswoman for GlaxoSmithKline, which makes Avandia, responded to the new government review by saying the company continued to believe Avandia was safe, the Times reported.

"Across the extensive data we have, the science shows no increase in cardiovascular death, and does not support a difference in heart attack rates between Avandia and the other most commonly prescribed oral antidiabetics," Rhyne told the Times.

On Friday, the company's director of clinical development, Dr. Andy Zambanini, told HealthDay that Glaxo was "still in negotiation with the FDA about a new warning label on heart failure, and we expect to release that information soon."

Nissen believes that patients who are considering taking Avandia should discuss the decision with their doctor. "It is important that the totality of information be out there," he said. "But no patient should stop taking a medication [only] because they read a news report."

Another expert contends that the two drugs are safe if prescribed correctly.

"The risk for heart failure with these drugs may be one in 50, but if you can correctly identify who that person [at risk] is, you can safely treat the other 49 and not hurt anybody," said Dr. Larry Deeb, president for medicine and science at the American Diabetes Association.

Deeb believes the same holds true for the risk of heart attack.

The boost in risk of heart failure and heart attack does not warrant taking these drugs off the market, he added.

"They fit into the armamentarium of diabetes drugs if used properly," Deeb said.