IRAN's Nuclear Factory

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:03 am

IRAN may resume work on its nuclear programme at Esfahan as early as next week, the country's top nuclear negotiator was quoted as saying yesterday, according to the Iranian Islamic Republic News.

Hassan Rohani, secretary of the Supreme National Security Council, reportedly said it is likely that unspecified nuclear activities related to uranium enrichment would begin again.

His comments came after talks in London with British,French and German officials about the future of Iran's nuclear programme failed to achieve a breakthroug. Iran was pressed in vain for a permanent end to its enrichment activities.

What is the US president doing about it?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:38 am

What would you like us to do, Capt.? We're already at war in two countries. We can't afford economically, or militarily to stretch out to another front. A multiple front war was the end of both Napoleon and Hitler.

I agree with you thought, that something needs to be done. Iran with nukes is the global equivalent of giving a .357 Magnum handgun to a retarded child. It's only a matter of time until BANG!

john8pies · Post by **john8pies** » Sun May 01, 2005 10:51 am

Try the United Nations and other diplomatic channels first. War should only be used as a last resort, though obviously it`s worrying if potentially unstable regimes have their hands on possible WMD.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:21 am

john8pies wrote: Try the United Nations and other diplomatic channels first. War should only be used as a last resort, though obviously it`s worrying if potentially unstable regimes have their hands on possible WMD.The UN, oh NO. Not a hope hope here. The UN today is run by the Mid East countries

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Sun May 01, 2005 11:22 am

john8pies wrote: Try the United Nations and other diplomatic channels first. War should only be used as a last resort, though obviously it`s worrying if potentially unstable regimes have their hands on possible WMD.The UN, oh NO. Not a hope hope here. The UN today is run by the Mid East countries, or those friendly towards them.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun May 01, 2005 1:29 pm

Well what he's doing is suggesting the US start building Nuclear reactors to provide power for the future and cut dependency on imported oil. Nuclear power is going to make a comeback.

greydeadhead · Post by **greydeadhead** » Mon May 02, 2005 7:39 am

Oh god.. that's a good one.. not much to fear with Russia involved. Right.. since the breakup of the USSR there are more nuclear materials unaccounted for....everything from pocket nukes on up... oh that is good.. puleeezzzeee.....

Post by **spot** » Mon May 02, 2005 7:55 am

I'm all for a bit more proliferation, myself. Nobody invades countries that have the Device, have you not noticed that?

Besides, there are so many of these things in the US that the federal authority could transfer a significant portion to State-controlled National Guard units, and not notice a significant impairment of deterrence. Alabama deserves to be able to fend off those commie-inspired fanatics from Tennessee.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon May 02, 2005 4:15 pm

It is unfortunate nuclear weapons are now spreading around the globe just as our allustrious prez is spreading 'Democracy':yh_rotfl but we all must know by now a tragedy will occur involving these weapons. That is inevitable. If a terrorist state like Israel, or Pakistan can have nukes if I were Iran I would want them as well, as a deterrent against a US invasion, Israeli terrorism, etc. How foolish of the West, and particularly the US to think only US allies can have these horrific WMD's but no one else can. This arrogance coupled with the sloppy organization of this Administration guarantees we will lose conrol of our superpower post and learn some hard lessons from our own proliferation of WMD's. At the same time we invade, unprovoked, 3rd World nations we accuse of having far less! The nuclear Industry is all about money. A weapon will bite us back. And the responsibility lies at the feet of the capitalist world.

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Mon May 02, 2005 4:53 pm

David813 wrote: It is unfortunate nuclear weapons are now spreading around the globe just as our allustrious prez is spreading 'Democracy':yh_rotfl but we all must know by now a tragedy will occur involving these weapons. That is inevitable. If a terrorist state like Israel, or Pakistan can have nukes if I were Iran I would want them as well, as a deterrent against a US invasion, Israeli terrorism, etc. How foolish of the West, and particularly the US to think only US allies can have these horrific WMD's but no one else can. This arrogance coupled with the sloppy organization of this Administration guarantees we will lose conrol of our superpower post and learn some hard lessons from our own proliferation of WMD's. At the same time we invade, unprovoked, 3rd World nations we accuse of having far less! The nuclear Industry is all about money. A weapon will bite us back. And the responsibility lies at the feet of the capitalist world.

David, there is a little truth in what you say, it is incomplete truth but true none the less.

I would like to point out that the reason the responciblity lies with the capitalist is because all the socialist and communist have imploded.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon May 02, 2005 5:02 pm

jahamaa wrote: David, there is a little truth in what you say, it is incomplete truth but true none the less.

I would like to point out that the reason the responciblity lies with the capitalist is because all the socialist and communist have imploded.If communism is indeed erased why continue to manufacture and sell WMD's? Hasn't the threat of godless nuclear communists been dissolved? Is a nuke a modern weapon of combat with terrorist/freedom fighter groups hailing from dozens of countries? I still say the WMD event will forever change the way the world views nations that belong to the WMD Club, and those that were denied access to them.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon May 02, 2005 5:12 pm

Scrat wrote: That's an ignorant statement. They have not imploded, they have changed to suit the world they live in.
HMMMMMM......... Even they admit some imploding http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:UCvB ... oded&hl=en

Open Letter from the Socialist Alliance Democratic Platform

For March 12th 2005 Conference

The official Communist Parties have imploded and most Left Groups seem locked into the politics of a bygone age. ...............

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon May 02, 2005 5:25 pm

Bring on the Islamic Bomb! It's time that little welfare 'state' of Israel is reminded how small and utterly helpless they really are without my tax dollars.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon May 02, 2005 6:14 pm

BTS wrote: HMMMMMM......... Even they admit some imploding http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:UCvB ... oded&hl=en

Open Letter from the Socialist Alliance Democratic Platform

For March 12th 2005 Conference

The official Communist Parties have imploded and most Left Groups seem locked into the politics of a bygone age. ...............Yeah! That's right! There are no more communists. No more socialism. The world is Freeeeeeeee! Praise Cheeses!:yh_worshp

David813 · Post by **David813** » Mon May 02, 2005 6:29 pm

Even rightwing Idol Rupert Murdoch said on CSPAN2 that he was concerned about the rise of socialism in the world and the US! Many nations are now governed by Leftist governments. Many were former pro-Soviet CP's. Haven't I already listed all the countries with socialist governments? ALL of S. America but Colombia and French Guiana are leftist. Not to mention all the former Soviet states with Marxist leaders now,(except Ukraine, for now) inclu in E. Europe. Africa has a dozen socialist states, plus China, SE Asia, Cuba, N. Korea, Libya, and many more countries with democratic socialist governments. Russia's 2nd largest political party is the CP. India has a few huge very populated provinces/departments run by the CP. (Kerala, Assam, etc.) Nepal has a Maoist rebel movement and there are 14 communist parties inside the US alone. Even right here in Kansas City. Locked in a bygone era? The Christians are. The Left hasn't gone anywhere. The Honeymoon the "Family Values" cult has enjoyed for so long is about to end. And hopefully SINGLES Values will prove more effective!

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon May 02, 2005 8:21 pm

Scrat wrote:

You forget (and avoid answering) certain questions Jives, such as why are we so feeble? Is it because Americans as a whole do not care to fight this war for oil?

Is it because Americans feel helpless in the face of terrorism.

Yes Scrat you are right........ All Americans should lay down at the feet of the terrorist and succumb to their almighty allah........

The terrorist see the example set by brave Americans like you and get energized in their plots.... (They see Weakness) (FEEBLE) Thanx to the like of your kind.

If we are over there for oil................. why then are we not reaping the spoils of war? Show me where we are making any money off of Iraqi oil.....

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Mon May 02, 2005 8:22 pm

Arguing on this forum is like > :-5

How long can u do that?

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:07 am

BTS wrote: Arguing on this forum is like > :-5Anyone who simplistically equates terrorism with Islam deserves all the derisive laughs they get, BTS. I hope your head hurts from the banging.

There is state terrorism, and there is private terrorism.

The IRA or the Basques, over the past forty years, is a fair example of private terrorism. It's criminal organizations which are tackled by law enforcement. There may well be private Islamic terrorist groups, but they don't amount to a fart in a hurricane. Law enforcement would be a welcome solution to them as well.

The only state terrorism I can see at the moment is sponsored by the USA. Given the impossibility of dealing with it externally, the rest of us will just wait for you to run out of cash. In the meantime, I expect our prayers for your downtrodden masses would not go amiss.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:11 am

spot wrote: Anyone who simplistically equates terrorism with Islam deserves all the derisive laughs they get, BTS. I hope your head hurts from the banging.

There is state terrorism, and there is private terrorism.

The IRA or the Basques, over the past forty years, is a fair example of private terrorism. It's criminal organizations which are tackled by law enforcement. There may well be private Islamic terrorist groups, but they don't amount to a fart in a hurricane. Law enforcement would be a welcome solution to them as well.

The only state terrorism I can see at the moment is sponsored by the USA. Given the impossibility of dealing with it externally, the rest of us will just wait for you to run out of cash. In the meantime, I expect our prayers for your downtrodden masses would not go amiss.Agreed, but there is also Government sponsored terrorism around the world

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:20 am

capt_buzzard wrote: Agreed, but there is also Government sponsored terrorism around the worldCertainly. Governments secretly sponsor unattached groups to commit crimes, frequently against their own nationals, in order that the interests of that government are furthered. The executives of the terrorist group may well not know who sponsored their group's management, come to that. The fact that the management of the Taliban was on the CIA payroll for so many years speaks volumes about probable secret US involvement in getting their own US population so all-fired patriotic, of late. Or read Russia with respect to the Inguish or Chechens, if you prefer less controversy.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:41 am

posted by david813

Even rightwing Idol Rupert Murdoch said on CSPAN2 that he was concerned about the rise of socialism in the world and the US! Many nations are now governed by Leftist governments.

What murdoch and his ilk class as socialism is basically any movement that voices the opinion that big business should not be allowed to set the agenda but that elected governments should instead. Anticapitalist movements, grass roots democratic movements, any kind of dissent gets labelled as socialist or communist because it provokes the kind of knee jerk response-particularly in america that stops any rational thinking. If the Iraquis decide to nationalise the oil fields it might be interesting to see what happens-elected government decides to kick out foreign companies nastry socialism or preserving national assets for the common good.

(this is frightening I almost agree on something with david813 :-3 )

posted by BTS

If we are over there for oil................. why then are we not reaping the spoils of war? Show me where we are making any money off of Iraqi oil.....

Follow the money, which companies are being awarded the contracts in Iraq and why? Who are the major shareholders and where are they in he government or rather which members of the government used to be on the boards of those companies.

Americans in particular throuigh their science fiction always seem fascinated by conspiracy theories, when you look at some of the background to your present administration you do kind of wonder.

I reckon nuclear proliferation is likely to be a bogger problem in the future, Iran is probably convinced they need atomic weapons as a deterrent against the US invading. Whether they would or not doesn't matter it's what people believe or can be persuaded of.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4493443.stm

The US government is proposing a $30m deal selling up to 100 laser-guided bunker-busting bombs to Israel.

The GBU-28 is a 2,000-kg conventional weapon with a powerful warhead that can burrow through six metres (20 feet) of concrete or 30 metres of earth.

The sale has gone ahead despite concern that Israel might use the weapon for a unilateral attack against Iran.

Nothing like helping defuse the situation is there? Invented by the British of course we used to call them earthquake bombs originally designed to take out u-boat submarine pens in ww2.

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:44 am

gmc wrote: I reckon nuclear proliferation is likely to be a bogger problem in the future,No truer word was ever spoken! As we say in Lancashire, it'll be a reet bogger and no mistake.

capt_buzzard · Post by **capt_buzzard** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:51 am

BTS wrote: Arguing on this forum is like > :-5

How long can u do that?Its called debate

Attached files

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 10:59 am

skittles2004 wrote: Not again!!!!!!! :-5Again, Skittles? I don't recall the Iranians ever had a reactor in the past, but perhaps I missed it.

If anyone knows of a "Help Buy an Enriched Rod for the Ayatollah" charitable Paypal account, do please post the address.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue May 03, 2005 4:53 pm

I hear people saying we don't need this war

I say there's some things worth fighting for

What about our freedom and this piece of ground

We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down

They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in

Before you start your preaching let me ask you this my friend

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?

To see your homeland under fire

And her people blown away

Have you forgotten when those towers fell?

We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell

And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden

Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.

Said it's too disturbing for you and me

It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say

If it was up to me I'd show it everyday

Some say this country's just out looking for a fight

After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?

To see your homeland under fire

And her people blown away

Have you forgotten when those towers fell?

We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell

And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden

Have you forgotten?

I've been there with the soldiers

Who've gone away to war

And you can bet that they remember

Just what they're fighting for

Have you forgotten how it felt that day?

To see your homeland under fire

And her people blown away

Have you forgotten when those towers fell?

We had neighbors still inside going thru a living hell

And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout bin Laden

Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten all the people killed?

Some went down like heros in that Pennsylvania field

Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?

All the loved ones that we lost and those left to carry on

Don't you tell me not to worry about bin Laden

Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:11 pm

Have I forgotten, BTS? Not now, not ever. When you and your countrymen finally jail Rumsfeld and Cheney and their vile underlings for suppressing the investigators and the normal air defense, so that they could have the domestic outrage they'd angled for, you'll have absolved yourself of responsibility for what happened. Right now, in my book, you're as guilty as they are. Don't you dare ask me whether I've forgotten.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:12 pm

Scrat wrote: Have I forgotten?

Yup. I'll never forget the stupidity that was the result of the whole thing though.
Yah scatty scat............ It was ALL GW's fault. He planned it all for greed of oil and it is americans fault that we were attacked.

Go back to to your burrow wimp.

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:16 pm

spot wrote: Have I forgotten, BTS? Not now, not ever. When you and your countrymen finally jail Rumsfeld and Cheney and their vile underlings for suppressing the investigators and the normal air defense, so that they could have the domestic outrage they'd angled for, you'll have absolved yourself of responsibility for what happened. Right now, in my book, you're as guilty as they are. Don't you dare ask me whether I've forgotten.
You've been listenin to Michael Moore WAY Too much ..........

conspiracy theories with no proof are for traitors such as you

BTS · Post by **BTS** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:33 pm

..::Scrat::..

Isn't he just PRECIOUS???

Attached files

Post by **spot** » Tue May 03, 2005 5:42 pm

BTS wrote: You've been listenin to Michael Moore WAY Too much ..........

conspiracy theories with no proof are for traitors such as you

I think it might help people if I put up a direct quote from Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Defense Policy Board chairman Richard Perle and Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, collectively known as the Project For The New American Century:

"...the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions."

Now, BTS, you have a good guess what that means, given that they wrote it in September 2000. Then ask yourself what would excuse the fumbling with the surveillance before 9/11, or the unbelievable fumbling of air defense on the day. Then you can ask yourself who the traitors are, instead of throwing unwarranted accusations in my direction. The worst I've called you is patriot.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Tue May 03, 2005 6:12 pm

TW2005 wrote: I had this burrito earlier today, oh sweet mercy, I feel like a nuclear factory...... :yh_ooooo :yh_sick:yh_rotfl :yh_laugh

Post by **spot** » Wed May 04, 2005 4:01 am

Scrat wrote: Spot. You really seem to know what your talking about here. How serious;y do you think we should take some of the conspiracy theories out there?

I don't have a lot of time to read about it and I really don't know what to believe. Any pointers?Hi Scrat - Wikipedia is a good resource for non-controversial discussions about all sorts of things. Every page there can be edited by any reader who knows something different, or wants to correct or expand on a point. That means the view expressed tends toward either consensus or completeness. My own views are neither complete nor balanced!

Their main summary is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_domes ... acy_theory

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:36 am

posted by scrat

Spot. You really seem to know what your talking about here. How serious;y do you think we should take some of the conspiracy theories out there?

If you'll forgive me putting in my tuppence worth you should take any conspiracy theory with a massive pinch of salt. It's easy enough to check stuff out yourself and make your own mind up about the veracity or otherwise of what is claimed.

Don't take this the wrong way but many americans seem to assume the situation in the middle east and the 911 attack sprang out of nowhere and there was nothing leading up to it. When you point to such as PNAC and the connection with the present administration any connection is disparaged. I have even-on another forum- been told that I should not believe such sites as being genuine as if Donald Rumsfeld and the like would not take action to shut it down if it was false. I must admit I thought it was a conspiracy site when i first looked at it. From an american context I can see the point, in another age it would be an imperialist agenda.

As to whether they deliberately ignored warnings I doubt that, 911 was unbelieveable any warnings of such an attack must have sounded like the script from a very bad conspiracy movie. America has never really suffers from terrorism until 911. I notice you now have drug terrorists, mafia terrorists.

The fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 911 is completely ignored as if irrelevant. If you happen to point out that Saddam was helped to pwer and sustained by the US despite using chemical weapons on his own people this is being anti american. CIA funding of al queda and the Taliban no connection.

The report from the 911 commission is there for all to see as is the hutton report etc in the UK.

The Iranian nuclear programme was started with US support in the seventies.

The best way to keep a regime like the Iranian in power is to attack it, every oppressive regime likes an outside enemy to detract attention from problems at home, people rally round their country when attacked. Selling weapons to Pakistan when the country they are likely to be used against is a democracy and one of your long term allies is not an action that shows much thought if any. Incidentally why not criticise Pakistan for building nuclear weapons rather than sell the means to deliver them. (who needs missiles when you can stick it on a plane)

Not so much conspiracy as a simplistic self centred view of the world that assumes nobody else matters. You would think after Vietnam americans would be a bit more cynical about their politicians, especially when they want to go to war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story ... 94,00.html

Perhaps the neocons got it right in the Middle East

Post by **spot** » Wed May 04, 2005 5:51 am

gmc wrote: As to whether they deliberately ignored warnings I doubt that, 911 was unbelieveable any warnings of such an attack must have sounded like the script from a very bad conspiracy movie.By all means say that as though it's obviously true, but the URL I gave does actually address this point:

wikipedia wrote: An interesting twist is that from two years to two months before 9/11 NORAD was doing exercises to prevent the exact type of attacks that happened on September 11. One of the NORAD exercises involved a mock situation where hijackers took control of a passenger commercial airliner and used it as a missile to crash into the World Trade Center. During the September 11, 2001 attacks the US was holding multiple annual war games. At least one, in which a small corporate jet would crash into one of the four towers at the NRO headquarters building, strongly resembled the actual attacks (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... DT0686.DTL) . Some sources think this added to the confusion of that day.How does that square with "such an attack must have sounded like the script from a very bad conspiracy movie"?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:17 am

posted by spot

How does that square with "such an attack must have sounded like the script from a very bad conspiracy movie"?

Like I said i find it hard to credit that the scale of the attack would be believed. There are a lot of simpler ways to carry out terrorist attacks than hikack three planes. You would have to accept that GW is criminal enough to deliberately stand by and do nothing. Them not taking it seriously I find more credible. You're talking about a group that advocate pre-emptive warfare to protect american interests that does kind of suggest an inability to properly think through the consequences of their actions and a low opinion of everybody elses opinion not to mention a breathtaking amount of arrogance.

warfare should always be a last resort. Ther's worse things than nuclear power staions to worry about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4494347.stm

http://www.lewispublishing.com/faq.htm

Just bear in mind that the comopanies making this stuff and said it was safe are the swme ones telling us gm crops used in conjunction with their herbicides are good for us.

posted by BTS

You've been listenin to Michael Moore WAY Too much ..........

conspiracy theories with no proof are for traitors such as you

Keep things in perspective Michael Moore is an obscure American journalist, personally I only bacame aware of him after the furore over fahreinheit 911. Don't know about spot maybe he had heard of him (sorry spot but I have this insane picture of a dalmation sitting at a keyboard, couldn't you have picked another name?):D

Do your own research and try and be more cynical.

Post by **spot** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:37 am

gmc wrote: You would have to accept that GW is criminal enough to deliberately stand by and do nothing.Fish rot from the head, after all. Have you seen the corporate gangsters he hangs out with? That is one predatory avaricious Administration he's nominally in charge of. If you go back and look at the range of US government NORAD anti-terror exercises leading up to 9/11, and try to equate it with GW's statement to investigators that "there was uh [pause] nobody in our government at least, and I don't think the prior government that could envision flying airplanes into buildings on such a massive scale", the lie is stamped there on his face plain to see.

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:22 pm

Scrat wrote: That's an ignorant statement. They have not imploded, they have changed to suit the world they live in.
That's not an ignorant statement however it is a lie.

Where are all the thriving socialist and communist states?

There are none. changing to meet the world they live in? If they were so wonderful why didn't the world change to deal with them.

They are gone because they failed. I call that imploding, no one exploded them they fell in upon themselves.

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:27 pm

David813 wrote: If communism is indeed erased why continue to manufacture and sell WMD's? Hasn't the threat of godless nuclear communists been dissolved? Is a nuke a modern weapon of combat with terrorist/freedom fighter groups hailing from dozens of countries? I still say the WMD event will forever change the way the world views nations that belong to the WMD Club, and those that were denied access to them.
I concur

Post by **spot** » Wed May 04, 2005 12:29 pm

jahamaa wrote: Where are all the thriving socialist and communist states?It does depend on what you compare it to, but I'd put the United Kingdom forward as a thriving Socialist state, and defend the suggestion if need be.