Reincarnation??

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:25 pm

What do you think/believe about reincarnation? Explain.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:39 pm

I am not sure if i believe in reincarnation or not..but i do believe in recognizing like souls...i have met people and we have became life long friends..as though we have always known eachother...

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:47 pm

Since I am on my 12th go around, of course I believe. I'm getting better with each new person I become.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:36 pm

Not really. I accept life after life and other realms but I can't really get behind reincarnation.

Jamesblonde · Post by **Jamesblonde** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:37 pm

laneybug;596421 wrote: What do you think/believe about reincarnation? Explain.

Re-incarnation is a process that, depending on your level of consciousness, may be used as a means of transport throughout time/space/???. I certainly do not believe that it can be used as a punishment or a reward, it merely offers a developed consciousness a means of broadening it's experience of the universe. Perhaps a less developed consciousness may find itself directed to forms which will benefit its progression.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:15 am

I never quite grasped what this "me" is which is supposed to come back. I'm my memories and my way of thinking. My way of thinking is laid down in my neural pathways and it can't be replicated. My memories are stored away physically as well. I'm tied to this wetware I walk around in.

It seems reasonable to me that the physical body has all the functions needed to generate and support my psyche. Introducing a word like "soul" is an add-on which adds no further functionality to that physical substrate. If there's anything beyond my memory and way of thinking, it isn't me. Does it carry my way of thinking when the wetware which implements that way of thinking no longer exists? That would be not merely redundant duplication but a huge coincidence as well, and the same goes for my memories.

Does a rat have the same duality? Is there a reincarnation of rats as well? Are souls not merely trans-migratory but trans-species too? What part of my makeup is meant to be influenced by a past life as a rat, for goodness' sake. Anything that amorphous isn't me whether it exists or not. I'm what I recall and how I make decisions and none of that is going to be much use to a rat if that's what this superfluous add-on comes back as next time.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:01 am

laneybug;596421 wrote: What do you think/believe about reincarnation? Explain.

Every bit as believable as the belief that we all go to heaven so long as we follow the correct version of a particular religion.

posted by spot

Does a rat have the same duality? Is there a reincarnation of rats as well? Are souls not merely trans-migratory but trans-species too? What part of my makeup is meant to be influenced by a past life as a rat, for goodness' sake. Anything that amorphous isn't me whether it exists or not. I'm what I recall and how I make decisions and none of that is going to be much use to a rat if that's what this superfluous add-on comes back as next time.

Do women have souls? After all if they came from Adams rib is it likely they have a soul? Such questions puzzled Christian scholars for many years and they came to the conclusion at one point that they did not. Do children not yet self aware have one? If children unbaptised go to hell does a foetus have a soul and if not why is abortion so wrong?

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:09 am

Depends on how do you define it..I believe that the world we think we live in (time and space) unrolled in an instant (like a big carpet) and is now over. Our minds exist outide of this world of time and space and "view" our so called lives" like watching a DVD..So when the mind chooses to "play" another DVD it is in a sense reincarnated, but has merely picked another spot on the carpet of time to focus in on. Time and space are the same and are not discrete or sequential (and in fact do not really exist). The million dollar question is why does the mind(s) choose to do this?;)

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:21 am

this:

Reincarnation, literally "to be made flesh again", is a doctrine or mystical belief that some essential part of a living being (in some variations only human beings) survives death to be reborn in a new body. This essential part is often referred to as the Spirit or Soul, the 'Higher or True Self', 'Divine Spark', 'I' or the 'Ego' (not to be confused with the ego as defined by psychology). According to such beliefs, a new personality is developed during each life in the physical world, but some part of the being remains constantly present throughout these successive lives as well.

is how I feel about it! :-6

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:42 am

sunny104;596524 wrote: According to such beliefs, a new personality is developed during each life in the physical world, but some part of the being remains constantly present throughout these successive lives as well.How does that part of the being which remains constantly present show itself, sunny?

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:53 am

spot;596539 wrote: How does that part of the being which remains constantly present show itself, sunny?

I would see that as the soul. I think you have one soul but many lifetimes. :-6

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:59 am

sunny104;596550 wrote: I would see that as the soul. I think you have one soul but many lifetimes. :-6

How does the soul show itself, as distinct from the mind?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:12 am

What is the difference between the two? Are they not the same?

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 10:45 am

RedGlitter;596693 wrote: What is the difference between the two? Are they not the same?

The mind is the sum of my memories and the way I think. Are either of those transfered on reincarnation? Pinky said no, for example, in "I don't think we come back as the same person or with the same thought processes, after all our environment influences a large amount of that". If reincarnation is inter-species then it makes no sense at all to talk of any aspect of one's mind being retained. Sunny said the part transfered is the soul, and I asked "How does the soul show itself?". What part of me that isn't related to the way I think or to my memories are we talking about when we use the word? Or am I wrong, and "mind" as I've used it here is what's transfered?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:08 am

I'm not sure, Spot. I just tend to think of the mind as being inclusive with the soul. But then I keep considering the ideas in this thread from a life after death aspect, rather that that of reincarnation.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:29 am

RedGlitter;596755 wrote: I'm not sure, Spot. I just tend to think of the mind as being inclusive with the soul. But then I keep considering the ideas in this thread from a life after death aspect, rather that that of reincarnation.You think your memories and your way of thinking don't rely on your brain to retain them from one moment to the next? What's a brain for, then?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:48 am

It's what makes the rest of the physical body function.

I was just talking about this stuff with a friend who says when the brain dies, that's all there is. You're dead and done. I disagree. I think the soul is the very life essence that never dies. It's the personal energy that never burns out. The spark that God made.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:08 pm

That's fine, both of you, but are you saying that the brain isn't the mechanism that holds memory and determines personality?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:04 pm

Hmmmm.....right now I'd say yes it does hold memory and personality but as far as permanently *banking* memory for all time, I think that's the soul's job. Which brings to mind the concept of deja vu.

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:19 pm

So you're both saying there are two entirely independent systems within a person which perform entirely identical yet major functions, the storage of memory and the retention of personality, one's visible, mappable and explorable and the other's entirely invisible and undetectable. Does that seem a likely evolutionary result?

Is there anything at all related to the soul which is distinctive and not duplicated by a physical bodily function?

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:26 pm

I am not so sure about this thread,I suppose I am sitting on the fence.I sometimes have weird dreams and I am a man in them,normally about some kind of war situation. On the other hand I am a bit of an athiest and think when you die that's it all over. I think the main reason being that I was very close to my father.When he died I prayed for him to give me a sign that he was happy as he was reunited with my mother. There was nothing and I lost my faith.For those of you who do believe in an after life I think it must be great,as people who believe seem so much happier than the ones who don't.

Mia......(the nice one)

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Pinky;596924 wrote: There are stranger things in heaven and eath than can be dreamt in your philosophy.

I can't remember offhand who said that, but it rings true for me at any rate.

Hamlet, you heathen.

I have no doubt whatever that death is merely wakening into a different perception of reality, what I'm discussing is the meaning of the words. The two I don't recognise so far in this thread are God and Soul. It's the wrong thread to ask what God means, but asking what Soul means is fairly central when reincarnation's on the table. You say the soul is the part of you which carries all of your memories and personality after you die, that it forms no part whatever of the body, and that the brain also carries all of your memories and personality while you're alive. Why have the brain doing the same job? What benefit do you get from the redundancy? It seems far easier to come up with an alternative definition of soul than account for what seems impossible in evolutionary terms.

Nobody's told me whether a rat has a soul, either.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:44 pm

Could it be that the soul is the energy which runs the brain. When it leaves it may or may not take the memories stored within but it takes the energy the brain needs?

Post by **spot** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:46 pm

YZGI;596941 wrote: Could it be that the soul is the energy which runs the brain. When it leaves it may or may not take the memories stored within but it takes the energy the brain needs?The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:52 pm

spot;596942 wrote: The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?
I think what we eat drink and breath creates energy for the body not necessarily the brain. The soul may be the electrical charge the brain needs to function. Just a wild theory. Not an opinion so to speak.

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:52 pm

[QUOTE=spot;596942]The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?[/QUOTE]

Yes Spot I believe you do :-4

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:53 pm

spot;596897 wrote: and the other's entirely invisible and undetectable.

Invisible and undetectable as far as we know it...perhaps we haven't evolved enough yet or haven't created the tools needed to measure it yet. (or perhaps it just cannot be measured/felt/seen.)

Is there anything at all related to the soul which is distinctive and not duplicated by a physical bodily function?

Hmm. Emotion? Compassion, pure love, hatred, jealousy, fear, etc?

You have me thinking, Spot. Good going.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:56 pm

spot;596942 wrote: The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?

I think all humans and animals have a soul. I see no logical reason why they would not.

As far as what is the soul, that's really hard for me to even attempt to answer without including God. But I'll think on it.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:57 pm

magenta flame;596431 wrote: reincarnation no, resurrection yes. almost the same I guess.

I believe the two are quite different actually. Resurrection, as in the biblical sense, is the rising or becoming alive again of the same person. Take Christ, for example. He was resurrected as the same person. As for reincarnation.... the belief, at least in Buddhism, is the taking on of another life form, whether human, animal, plant, whatever. You may have similarities from your previous "self" but you wouldn't be the same as in resurrection. Anyway... that's my understanding of it, at least.

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:57 pm

RedGlitter;596442 wrote: Not really. I accept life after life and other realms but I can't really get behind reincarnation.

If you believe in life after life, why not reincarnation?

laneybug · Post by **laneybug** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:08 pm

spot;596490 wrote: I never quite grasped what this "me" is which is supposed to come back. I'm my memories and my way of thinking. My way of thinking is laid down in my neural pathways and it can't be replicated. My memories are stored away physically as well. I'm tied to this wetware I walk around in.

It seems reasonable to me that the physical body has all the functions needed to generate and support my psyche. Introducing a word like "soul" is an add-on which adds no further functionality to that physical substrate. If there's anything beyond my memory and way of thinking, it isn't me. Does it carry my way of thinking when the wetware which implements that way of thinking no longer exists? That would be not merely redundant duplication but a huge coincidence as well, and the same goes for my memories.

Does a rat have the same duality? Is there a reincarnation of rats as well? Are souls not merely trans-migratory but trans-species too? What part of my makeup is meant to be influenced by a past life as a rat, for goodness' sake. Anything that amorphous isn't me whether it exists or not. I'm what I recall and how I make decisions and none of that is going to be much use to a rat if that's what this superfluous add-on comes back as next time.

I don't believe you are entirely your memories and way of thinking. A huge part of you is, yes. But a newborn baby will definitely behave differently than another newborn baby, however slight the difference. They, technically, do not have any memories that would make them "them."

As for reincarnation of rats.... if you look at reincarnation beliefs you will find that, in the theory, a worm can become dog can become a whale can become you can become a dog again, etc.

Since you are taking the entire scientific approach, consider this. It is a fundamental fact of science that energy can not be created nor destroyed. It simply changes form. We are, in the rawest sense, made of atoms, as everything else. Atoms are energetic, which would mean WE are energy. If the above fact is true, when we die, where does our energy go? Does it transform into nutrients for the soil and therefore nutrients for a tree? In a scientific sense, that would be considered reincarnation. Our energy transforming or becoming something else. But energy is never destroyed.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:09 pm

laneybug;597012 wrote: If you believe in life after life, why not reincarnation?

It just goes against how I feel things work. I think everyone gets one soul and makes transitions (dies) into other dimensions of life to continue their work. Getting a new soul or being reborn into a cactus or a new body makes no sense to me. I especially don't think a person will die and then return to this earth. In any form.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:58 pm

magenta flame;596431 wrote: reincarnation no, resurrection yes. almost the same I guess.

Surely totally different - resurrection is being brought back to live within the same body to continue you life whereas reincarnation is the soul passing on and being reborn as a new baby to live another life.

I've no difficulty with either as a possibility but no evidence for either as an actuality.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:03 pm

spot;596684 wrote: How does the soul show itself, as distinct from the mind?

Nature and nurture. The soul is the nature of the person whereas the mind is the result of the experiences that the soul has had in this lifetime.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:12 pm

spot;596942 wrote: The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?

At the point of death does the energy level of the body change?

How can you state catagoricaly that the total energy of the system is totally made up of the chemical and electrical energy built by the body?

Does a rat have a soul in theological terms - no.

Does a rat have a soul in terms of body function? Who knows, we have not learnt to detect the object of our investigation in man so how can we pontificate about a rat?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 4:14 pm

minks;596947 wrote: [quote=spot;596942]The energy which runs your brain comes from the food you eat and the air you breathe, same as for the rat. Does the rat have a soul?[/QUOTE]

Yes Spot I believe you do :-4

ROTFLMAO - that has to be game set and match, all in the one point :yh_rotfl

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:59 pm

I just had business dealings with someone I am QUITE SURE I had a very bad marriage with in a past life.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:55 pm

magenta flame;598746 wrote: No Bryn that's wrong Your body rots you get a new one . You dont' come back with the imperfections of your last body.

Then how come, after the resurrection, Jesus showed the disciples the stigmata?

eta - Also read the story of the resurrection of Lazerus - no rotting of the body and building a new one there.