Recently, the new director of the NIH, a conservative scientist, installed by the Bush administration, has broken ranks. He has come out publicly indorsing Embryonic Stem Cell research and advocating the Harkin Bill up for a vote on Thursday, April 12th. Most scientist agree, as does 70% of the American public, including Nancy Reagan.
Lately, information about deaths due to Adult Stem Cell transplant has come to light, and it is really bad. Since bone marrow transplants have been done for 40 years now, there are plenty of statistics, but they haven't been compiled. Now they have been, take a look--it's pretty bad.
Adult Stem Cell Transplant Deaths
Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
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Specfiction
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Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
That was an interesting article.
"Girls are crazy! I'm not ever getting married, I can make my own sandwiches!"
my son
my son
Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
dang, i just read an article where scientist are transferring stem cells to insulin dependent diabetics and so far the patients are doing fine...this will be wonderful accomplishment for all the diabetics in the world...maybe it will be a cure......
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Specfiction
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Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
I think the entire field of medicine will be transformed from an understanding of Blastcyst Stem Cells. In twenty to fifty years, we will look back and regard medicine today the way we think of medicine in the dark ages. I think that those who explain this field of research to the public, have, as usual, done a very poor job. Another thing that people may not understand about Stem Cells is that an understanding of them may lead to a "cure" for cancer. Not burning out tumors, or poising people while hoping that the cancer dies before the patient, but a real, permanent cure--no strings attached.
As far as diabetes--that's a tough one, only because of the autoimmune component. Stem Cells can fix the pancreas, but we need to understand how to reset the immune system so that it doesn't attack the body.
As far as diabetes--that's a tough one, only because of the autoimmune component. Stem Cells can fix the pancreas, but we need to understand how to reset the immune system so that it doesn't attack the body.
Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
guppy;591773 wrote: dang, i just read an article where scientist are transferring stem cells to insulin dependent diabetics and so far the patients are doing fine...this will be wonderful accomplishment for all the diabetics in the world...maybe it will be a cure......
Yeah, I heard that, too. It doesn't cure the diabetes but it can lower the doses of insulin in some people and for some that could save their life.
I understand that some people flower things up hoping to get their names in journals and to excite the people just so they can get grant money when there is absolutley no basis for it. But, we got to start somewhere.
I am of the mind that at one time there was something on the earth to take care of every ailment known to man. But we have destroyed our medicine and cures by increasing the ease of our lifestyle.
Yeah, I heard that, too. It doesn't cure the diabetes but it can lower the doses of insulin in some people and for some that could save their life.
I understand that some people flower things up hoping to get their names in journals and to excite the people just so they can get grant money when there is absolutley no basis for it. But, we got to start somewhere.
I am of the mind that at one time there was something on the earth to take care of every ailment known to man. But we have destroyed our medicine and cures by increasing the ease of our lifestyle.
When choosing between two evils, I always like to take the one I've never tried before.
Mae West
Mae West
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Adam Zapple
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Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
This is complete nonsense. This author admits he is the first to publicly publish these numbers. Given that he is not a scientist, that should set off some bells immediately. Then he says the numbers are "scattered" among some 12 million lines of text. Who couldn't pick and choose a few scattered data from that much material and come to any conclusion. But above all his conclusion is preposterous. No where in his article does he provide evidence that the 3,629 deaths out of 25,000 leukemia patients was caused by adult stem cells rather than from leukemia. One would have to look at the average survival rate of patients undergoing bone marrow and other medical treatments compared to the survival rate of patients undergoing stem cell transplants. This author did no such thing. In fact, a link provided in his article states the following:
Are any risks associated with donating PBSCs?
Apheresis usually causes minimal discomfort. During apheresis, the person may feel lightheadedness, chills, numbness around the lips, and cramping in the hands. Unlike bone marrow donation, PBSC donation does not require anesthesia. The medication that is given to stimulate the release of stem cells from the marrow into the bloodstream may cause bone and muscle aches, headaches, fatigue, nausea, vomiting, and/or difficulty sleeping. These side effects generally stop within 2 to 3 days of the last dose of the medication.
How does the patient receive the stem cells during the transplant?
After being treated with high-dose anticancer drugs and/or radiation, the patient receives the stem cells through an intravenous (IV) line just like a blood transfusion. This part of the transplant takes 1 to 5 hours.
Are any special measures taken when the cancer patient is also the donor (autologous transplant)?
The stem cells used for autologous transplantation must be relatively free of cancer cells. The harvested cells can sometimes be treated before transplantation in a process known as “purging to get rid of cancer cells. This process can remove some cancer cells from the harvested cells and minimize the chance that cancer will come back. Because purging may damage some healthy stem cells, more cells are obtained from the patient before the transplant so that enough healthy stem cells will remain after purging.
What happens after the stem cells have been transplanted to the patient?
After entering the bloodstream, the stem cells travel to the bone marrow, where they begin to produce new white blood cells, red blood cells, and platelets in a process known as “engraftment. Engraftment usually occurs within about 2 to 4 weeks after transplantation. Doctors monitor it by checking blood counts on a frequent basis. Complete recovery of immune function takes much longer, however—up to several months for autologous transplant recipients and 1 to 2 years for patients receiving allogeneic or syngeneic transplants. Doctors evaluate the results of various blood tests to confirm that new blood cells are being produced and that the cancer has not returned. Bone marrow aspiration (the removal of a small sample of bone marrow through a needle for examination under a microscope) can also help doctors determine how well the new marrow is working.
What are the possible side effects of BMT and PBSCT?
The major risk of both treatments is an increased susceptibility to infection and bleeding as a result of the high-dose cancer treatment. Doctors may give the patient antibiotics to prevent or treat infection. They may also give the patient transfusions of platelets to prevent bleeding and red blood cells to treat anemia. Patients who undergo BMT and PBSCT may experience short-term side effects such as nausea, vomiting, fatigue, loss of appetite, mouth sores, hair loss, and skin reactions.
Potential long-term risks include complications of the pretransplant chemotherapy and radiation therapy, such as infertility (the inability to produce children); cataracts (clouding of the lens of the eye, which causes loss of vision); secondary (new) cancers; and damage to the liver, kidneys, lungs, and/or heart.
With allogeneic transplants, a complication known as graft-versus-host disease (GVHD) sometimes develops. GVHD occurs when white blood cells from the donor (the graft) identify cells in the patient’s body (the host) as foreign and attack them. The most commonly damaged organs are the skin, liver, and intestines. This complication can develop within a few weeks of the transplant (acute GVHD) or much later (chronic GVHD). To prevent this complication, the patient may receive medications that suppress the immune system. Additionally, the donated stem cells can be treated to remove the white blood cells that cause GVHD in a process called “T-cell depletion. If GVHD develops, it can be very serious and is treated with steroids or other immunosuppressive agents. GVHD can be difficult to treat, but some studies suggest that patients with leukemia who develop GVHD are less likely to have the cancer come back. Clinical trials are being conducted to find ways to prevent and treat GVHD.
TEXT
GVHD is not caused by stem cells. It is simply what we call organ rejection, it occurs in organ transplants as well as allogeneic stem cell transplants. To make the assertion that adult stems cells "kill" people from the above evidence is simply ridiculous. I empathize with the author of the original article. He is a quadraplegic who only wants to walk again. But to make unsubstantiated claims against very promising adult stem cell therapy in hopes that it will speed up the up-to-now undeliverd promises of embryonic stem cells is just folly.
Are any risks associated with donating PBSCs?
Apheresis usually causes minimal discomfort. During apheresis, the person may feel lightheadedness, chills, numbness around the lips, and cramping in the hands. Unlike bone marrow donation, PBSC donation does not require anesthesia. The medication that is given to stimulate the release of stem cells from the marrow into the bloodstream may cause bone and muscle aches, headaches, fatigue, nausea, vomiting, and/or difficulty sleeping. These side effects generally stop within 2 to 3 days of the last dose of the medication.
How does the patient receive the stem cells during the transplant?
After being treated with high-dose anticancer drugs and/or radiation, the patient receives the stem cells through an intravenous (IV) line just like a blood transfusion. This part of the transplant takes 1 to 5 hours.
Are any special measures taken when the cancer patient is also the donor (autologous transplant)?
The stem cells used for autologous transplantation must be relatively free of cancer cells. The harvested cells can sometimes be treated before transplantation in a process known as “purging to get rid of cancer cells. This process can remove some cancer cells from the harvested cells and minimize the chance that cancer will come back. Because purging may damage some healthy stem cells, more cells are obtained from the patient before the transplant so that enough healthy stem cells will remain after purging.
What happens after the stem cells have been transplanted to the patient?
After entering the bloodstream, the stem cells travel to the bone marrow, where they begin to produce new white blood cells, red blood cells, and platelets in a process known as “engraftment. Engraftment usually occurs within about 2 to 4 weeks after transplantation. Doctors monitor it by checking blood counts on a frequent basis. Complete recovery of immune function takes much longer, however—up to several months for autologous transplant recipients and 1 to 2 years for patients receiving allogeneic or syngeneic transplants. Doctors evaluate the results of various blood tests to confirm that new blood cells are being produced and that the cancer has not returned. Bone marrow aspiration (the removal of a small sample of bone marrow through a needle for examination under a microscope) can also help doctors determine how well the new marrow is working.
What are the possible side effects of BMT and PBSCT?
The major risk of both treatments is an increased susceptibility to infection and bleeding as a result of the high-dose cancer treatment. Doctors may give the patient antibiotics to prevent or treat infection. They may also give the patient transfusions of platelets to prevent bleeding and red blood cells to treat anemia. Patients who undergo BMT and PBSCT may experience short-term side effects such as nausea, vomiting, fatigue, loss of appetite, mouth sores, hair loss, and skin reactions.
Potential long-term risks include complications of the pretransplant chemotherapy and radiation therapy, such as infertility (the inability to produce children); cataracts (clouding of the lens of the eye, which causes loss of vision); secondary (new) cancers; and damage to the liver, kidneys, lungs, and/or heart.
With allogeneic transplants, a complication known as graft-versus-host disease (GVHD) sometimes develops. GVHD occurs when white blood cells from the donor (the graft) identify cells in the patient’s body (the host) as foreign and attack them. The most commonly damaged organs are the skin, liver, and intestines. This complication can develop within a few weeks of the transplant (acute GVHD) or much later (chronic GVHD). To prevent this complication, the patient may receive medications that suppress the immune system. Additionally, the donated stem cells can be treated to remove the white blood cells that cause GVHD in a process called “T-cell depletion. If GVHD develops, it can be very serious and is treated with steroids or other immunosuppressive agents. GVHD can be difficult to treat, but some studies suggest that patients with leukemia who develop GVHD are less likely to have the cancer come back. Clinical trials are being conducted to find ways to prevent and treat GVHD.
TEXT
GVHD is not caused by stem cells. It is simply what we call organ rejection, it occurs in organ transplants as well as allogeneic stem cell transplants. To make the assertion that adult stems cells "kill" people from the above evidence is simply ridiculous. I empathize with the author of the original article. He is a quadraplegic who only wants to walk again. But to make unsubstantiated claims against very promising adult stem cell therapy in hopes that it will speed up the up-to-now undeliverd promises of embryonic stem cells is just folly.
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Specfiction
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Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
Okay, where do we start? First, Steven Edwards, the author of the article is not a doctor and doesn't claim to be--but he can write a mean Peal script, which is how smart researchers compile data from various studies to compare results and produce an overall survey of the field. What Steven is pointing out is that no one has compiled numbers on mortality rates of bone marrow transplants--which is the cononical "adult stem cell" treatment in general practice today. And guess what--they're very high. This adult stem cell treatment is "risky."
Because of Steven's work, researchers will now pour over the data (as they should have done much earlier) and determine exactly the issues that make this treatment so risky. Now it may be that immune rejection may be a big part of it, but the adult stem cells are part of that--the immune system rejects them.
So what about Bastocyst Stem Cells? Well one of the problems with adult stem cells in bone marrow transplant is that they are really not true, Blastocyst stem cells; they are really Progenitor Cells, or cells that have differentiated from base stem cells. Let's say it another way, Bone Marrow Stromal Cells are Progenitor cells derived from more basic stem cells. This means that stromal cells, although plastic, can not yeild any cell in the body.
As for immune reaction, researchers now know how to perform nuclear transplantation on Blastocyst Stem Cells that completely eliminates a immune response, you can't (we don't know how to) do that with Stromal Cells. There have been some suggestions that you may be able to do this, but to date, resarchers believe only by fusion with embryonic cells can this happen. There is no question you can do this with Blastocysts.
Here's an article resently written that has found deep problems in the claims of adult stem cell advocate's assertion of adult stem cell plasticity, and this is a problem with the main study everyone used to quote in reference to this issue:
Study on Use of Adult Stem Cells flawed
There are many more issues with adult stem cells that are too lengthy to adress here. Suffice it to say that advocates of Blastocyts Stem Cells are not "against" adult stem cells, they are for non-scientific advocacy groups with an "agenda" to not tell scientists how to do their work in trying to find cures for desperatly sick people and 70% of the public seems to agree.
Finally, the claim that Blastocyst Stem cells cause tumors is nonsense. This is because any credible study of Blastacyst Stem Cells differentiate them first, before putting them in the patient. There are no tumors if the proceedure is done properly--the tumor issue is just misinformation--period. About Blastocyst Stem Cell treatments in humans--I can tell you of what I know personally. Here in California, Prop 71--the state Stem Cell initiative has sailed through the court of appeals, winning in mere days against lawsuits brought up by special interest--agenda driven religious groups in the state. The court of appeals ruling came so quickly it surprised everyone. The judge said the suit had "absolutely no merit."
Following this, Stem Cell researchers in the state got 150 million in bridge funding to continue their research in Blastocyst Stem Cell treatments. Soon $3 Billion in funding will be available and researchers are pouring into the state. NY, Mass, and Conn are following suit. We are currently in clincal trials with an acute spinal cord treatment that has made paralyzed mice walk. Geron is doing the trial as we speak on paralyzed human patients. Along with that, 2.5 million has been alotted to a single researcher for chronically paralyzed patients, and the hope is that we might be in clinical trials in three years, if all goes well. I'm sure Steven will be happy to hear that...
Because of Steven's work, researchers will now pour over the data (as they should have done much earlier) and determine exactly the issues that make this treatment so risky. Now it may be that immune rejection may be a big part of it, but the adult stem cells are part of that--the immune system rejects them.
So what about Bastocyst Stem Cells? Well one of the problems with adult stem cells in bone marrow transplant is that they are really not true, Blastocyst stem cells; they are really Progenitor Cells, or cells that have differentiated from base stem cells. Let's say it another way, Bone Marrow Stromal Cells are Progenitor cells derived from more basic stem cells. This means that stromal cells, although plastic, can not yeild any cell in the body.
As for immune reaction, researchers now know how to perform nuclear transplantation on Blastocyst Stem Cells that completely eliminates a immune response, you can't (we don't know how to) do that with Stromal Cells. There have been some suggestions that you may be able to do this, but to date, resarchers believe only by fusion with embryonic cells can this happen. There is no question you can do this with Blastocysts.
Here's an article resently written that has found deep problems in the claims of adult stem cell advocate's assertion of adult stem cell plasticity, and this is a problem with the main study everyone used to quote in reference to this issue:
Study on Use of Adult Stem Cells flawed
There are many more issues with adult stem cells that are too lengthy to adress here. Suffice it to say that advocates of Blastocyts Stem Cells are not "against" adult stem cells, they are for non-scientific advocacy groups with an "agenda" to not tell scientists how to do their work in trying to find cures for desperatly sick people and 70% of the public seems to agree.
Finally, the claim that Blastocyst Stem cells cause tumors is nonsense. This is because any credible study of Blastacyst Stem Cells differentiate them first, before putting them in the patient. There are no tumors if the proceedure is done properly--the tumor issue is just misinformation--period. About Blastocyst Stem Cell treatments in humans--I can tell you of what I know personally. Here in California, Prop 71--the state Stem Cell initiative has sailed through the court of appeals, winning in mere days against lawsuits brought up by special interest--agenda driven religious groups in the state. The court of appeals ruling came so quickly it surprised everyone. The judge said the suit had "absolutely no merit."
Following this, Stem Cell researchers in the state got 150 million in bridge funding to continue their research in Blastocyst Stem Cell treatments. Soon $3 Billion in funding will be available and researchers are pouring into the state. NY, Mass, and Conn are following suit. We are currently in clincal trials with an acute spinal cord treatment that has made paralyzed mice walk. Geron is doing the trial as we speak on paralyzed human patients. Along with that, 2.5 million has been alotted to a single researcher for chronically paralyzed patients, and the hope is that we might be in clinical trials in three years, if all goes well. I'm sure Steven will be happy to hear that...
Adult Stem Cells--Worst than I thought...
guppy;591773 wrote: dang, i just read an article where scientist are transferring stem cells to insulin dependent diabetics and so far the patients are doing fine...this will be wonderful accomplishment for all the diabetics in the world...maybe it will be a cure......
Where are the news items on how well em stem cells are working. They aren't there. The libs will do any thing including lie to be able to kill the unborn babies.
Where are the news items on how well em stem cells are working. They aren't there. The libs will do any thing including lie to be able to kill the unborn babies.