I'm not sure we NEED mushrooms! Apparently, our educational system has produced at least one person who sees Europe (and the middle east) as "a country."
"Sometimes it seems to me that people from other countries such as Europe and the middle east just cannot get the concept of freedom of speech, and actually get angry when they see Americans using that right,..."
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Lulu2;538507 wrote: I'm not sure we NEED mushrooms! Apparently, our educational system has produced at least one person who sees Europe (and the middle east) as "a country."
"Sometimes it seems to me that people from other countries such as Europe and the middle east just cannot get the concept of freedom of speech, and actually get angry when they see Americans using that right,..."
Well thats understandable. I think she lives on the Island Of California.
"Sometimes it seems to me that people from other countries such as Europe and the middle east just cannot get the concept of freedom of speech, and actually get angry when they see Americans using that right,..."
Well thats understandable. I think she lives on the Island Of California.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Lulu2;538507 wrote: I'm not sure we NEED mushrooms! Apparently, our educational system has produced at least one person who sees Europe (and the middle east) as "a country."
"Sometimes it seems to me that people from other countries such as Europe and the middle east just cannot get the concept of freedom of speech, and actually get angry when they see Americans using that right,..."
Yes I didn't mention it at the time, but I did notice that as well, I have encountered this before as well though, so I am kinda used to it.
"Sometimes it seems to me that people from other countries such as Europe and the middle east just cannot get the concept of freedom of speech, and actually get angry when they see Americans using that right,..."
Yes I didn't mention it at the time, but I did notice that as well, I have encountered this before as well though, so I am kinda used to it.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
"I think she lives on the Island Of California."
++++++++++ Yes, well....I believe YOU live in Kansas, eh? The SUNFLOWER State? Where "creationism" is "science?"
++++++++++ Yes, well....I believe YOU live in Kansas, eh? The SUNFLOWER State? Where "creationism" is "science?"
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Lulu2;538544 wrote: "I think she lives on the Island Of California."
++++++++++ Yes, well....I believe YOU live in Kansas, eh? The SUNFLOWER State? Where "creationism" is "science?"
Trust me I dont get to set the curriculum.
++++++++++ Yes, well....I believe YOU live in Kansas, eh? The SUNFLOWER State? Where "creationism" is "science?"
Trust me I dont get to set the curriculum.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
But ya gotta admit God has to be a pretty good scientist to have done all that creating.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
You don't set the curriculum and I didn't get to choose who lives here and represents my state!
(See what happens when people don't do their own homework?)
PS...I'll admit that natural selection is an amazing process!
(See what happens when people don't do their own homework?)
PS...I'll admit that natural selection is an amazing process!
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Lulu2;538556 wrote: You don't set the curriculum and I didn't get to choose who lives here and represents my state!
(See what happens when people don't do their own homework?)
This is why you always, always have to pay close attention to the what the people who talk to the people who make decisions say, and never let them grind you down either whether its by sophistry, tautology, or the end of year payoff, never.
(See what happens when people don't do their own homework?)
This is why you always, always have to pay close attention to the what the people who talk to the people who make decisions say, and never let them grind you down either whether its by sophistry, tautology, or the end of year payoff, never.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Sweet Tooth
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Ok personally, I don't know if we have freedom of speech here in the US! I know that when my babies get old enough that they aren't able to say a quick prayer over lunch at school! But lets get serious, lets teach evolution to our youngsters. And when a youngster raises her hand to ask about God creating the earth, because that is what she has grown up hearing, she gets repromanded- ya that sounds like freedom of speech to me!
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Sweet Tooth;538562 wrote: Ok personally, I don't know if we have freedom of speech here in the US! I know that when my babies get old enough that they aren't able to say a quick prayer over lunch at school! But lets get serious, lets teach evolution to our youngsters. And when a youngster raises her hand to ask about God creating the earth, because that is what she has grown up hearing, she gets repromanded- ya that sounds like freedom of speech to me!
I think thats fair enough sweet tooth, but don't tell them that the theory of evolution and the scientific view of how the world and ourselves came to be (whatever the creators role was) and the idea of the Jewish and Biblical 6 day creation story are the same and are equally supported by physical evidence because they are not, and anyone who tells you they are is not being very honest.
I think thats fair enough sweet tooth, but don't tell them that the theory of evolution and the scientific view of how the world and ourselves came to be (whatever the creators role was) and the idea of the Jewish and Biblical 6 day creation story are the same and are equally supported by physical evidence because they are not, and anyone who tells you they are is not being very honest.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Sweet Tooth
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Galbally;538565 wrote: I think thats fair enough sweet tooth, but don't tell them that the theory of evolution and the scientific view of how the world and ourselves came to be (whatever the creators role was) and the idea of the Jewish and Biblical 6 day creation story are the same and are equally supported by physical evidence because they are not, and anyone who tells you they are is not being very honest.
I'm not trying to make evolution the point- I was using it as the first example off the top of my head. I guess I am making a freedom of speech/religion argument. I don't think that we exclusivly have freedom of speech if my baby can't pray at lunch!
I'm not trying to make evolution the point- I was using it as the first example off the top of my head. I guess I am making a freedom of speech/religion argument. I don't think that we exclusivly have freedom of speech if my baby can't pray at lunch!
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
I am newish to this forum.......
but reading this thread, makes me wonder if there is any other country in the world where you can take a soap box to stand on... to Hyde Park Corner .....in London UK and spout off anything you want to talk about, with out being thrown in jail.
Now thats Free speech!
but reading this thread, makes me wonder if there is any other country in the world where you can take a soap box to stand on... to Hyde Park Corner .....in London UK and spout off anything you want to talk about, with out being thrown in jail.
Now thats Free speech!
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Sweet Tooth;538571 wrote: I'm not trying to make evolution the point- I was using it as the first example off the top of my head. I guess I am making a freedom of speech/religion argument. I don't think that we exclusivly have freedom of speech if my baby can't pray at lunch!
Well, I think that personal religious expression should be a fundamental freedom really, for all religions, its just when people try to proletize their own relgious beliefs to others via institutions of the state (which is supposed to be strictly secular in my country and in yours), that I get annoyed. The Catholic Church used the Irish education system to indoctrinate people for many years, once they felt in charge, thats when they got all "do as we say, or else" and got away with all kinds of terrible abuses because of their influence, luckily we woke up to all that, and we don't take so much crap off them any more, don't make the same mistake in your country, thats my advice.
Well, I think that personal religious expression should be a fundamental freedom really, for all religions, its just when people try to proletize their own relgious beliefs to others via institutions of the state (which is supposed to be strictly secular in my country and in yours), that I get annoyed. The Catholic Church used the Irish education system to indoctrinate people for many years, once they felt in charge, thats when they got all "do as we say, or else" and got away with all kinds of terrible abuses because of their influence, luckily we woke up to all that, and we don't take so much crap off them any more, don't make the same mistake in your country, thats my advice.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Redpoppy;538572 wrote: I am newish to this forum.......
but reading this thread, makes me wonder if there is any other country in the world where you can take a soap box to stand on... to Hyde Park Corner .....in London UK and spout off anything you want to talk about, with out being thrown in jail.
Now thats Free speech!
Hyde Park corner is brilliant, man, the things people come out with like "Down with the Postal system" or "Do you realize that Queen is from Albania, you fools!", I want to go and have a rant about Brussels Sprouts, pinky is going to come and watch, it will be great! :wah:
but reading this thread, makes me wonder if there is any other country in the world where you can take a soap box to stand on... to Hyde Park Corner .....in London UK and spout off anything you want to talk about, with out being thrown in jail.
Now thats Free speech!
Hyde Park corner is brilliant, man, the things people come out with like "Down with the Postal system" or "Do you realize that Queen is from Albania, you fools!", I want to go and have a rant about Brussels Sprouts, pinky is going to come and watch, it will be great! :wah:
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
-
Sweet Tooth
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
I understand, at the same time, this is what our country was founded on- it shouldn't matter if you believe in it or not, thats the foundation of this government and the reason the US was founded in the first place. ya know, if we went to Israel, or any other different religion country, whether we wanted to hear it or not, they play the loud chants and prayers over loud speakers throughout the city- but that is what the city was founded on, therefor not a problem.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Sweet Tooth;538576 wrote: I understand, at the same time, this is what our country was founded on- it shouldn't matter if you believe in it or not, thats the foundation of this government and the reason the US was founded in the first place. ya know, if we went to Israel, or any other different religion country, whether we wanted to hear it or not, they play the loud chants and prayers over loud speakers throughout the city- but that is what the city was founded on, therefor not a problem.
Yes, the US and Ireland are both Christian countries, and Israel is a Jewish country, but with the caveat that there is strict separation between church and state, always, its one of the founding principals of the U.S, and its supposed to be the case here. In many Muslim countries there is no such separation, and Sharia law is the civil law as well, and leaders get into power based almost purely on self-proclaimed religious piety and mythical rhetoric, and......... well, I hardly need to point out that this is not an ideal that we would be into.
One of the reasons why Western societies were able to achieve some degree of intellectual freedom and not keep wallowing in the dark ages, was that ultimatley religious leaders were not able to keep control of civil society and we were able to think for ourselves, leading to the modern world for all its good and bad, its a freedom I would not be willing ever to give up, under any circumstances, to any religion whatsoever, mine or anyone else's and I believe many of your countrymen and women would feel that way, as you do yourself I am sure.
Yes, the US and Ireland are both Christian countries, and Israel is a Jewish country, but with the caveat that there is strict separation between church and state, always, its one of the founding principals of the U.S, and its supposed to be the case here. In many Muslim countries there is no such separation, and Sharia law is the civil law as well, and leaders get into power based almost purely on self-proclaimed religious piety and mythical rhetoric, and......... well, I hardly need to point out that this is not an ideal that we would be into.
One of the reasons why Western societies were able to achieve some degree of intellectual freedom and not keep wallowing in the dark ages, was that ultimatley religious leaders were not able to keep control of civil society and we were able to think for ourselves, leading to the modern world for all its good and bad, its a freedom I would not be willing ever to give up, under any circumstances, to any religion whatsoever, mine or anyone else's and I believe many of your countrymen and women would feel that way, as you do yourself I am sure.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Galbally;538586 wrote: Yes, the US and Ireland are both Christian countries, and Israel is a Jewish country, but with the caveat that there is strict separation between church and state, always, its one of the founding principals of the U.S, and its supposed to be the case here. In many Muslim countries there is no such separation, and Sharia law is the civil law as well, and leaders get into power based almost purely on self-proclaimed religious piety and mythical rhetoric, and......... well, I hardly need to point out that this is not an ideal that we would be into.
One of the reasons why Western societies were able to achieve some degree of intellectual freedom and not keep wallowing in the dark ages, was that ultimatley religious leaders were not able to keep control of civil society and we were able to think for ourselves, leading to the modern world for all its good and bad, its a freedom I would not be willing ever to give up, under any circumstances, to any religion whatsoever, mine or anyone else's and I believe many of your countrymen and women would feel that way, as you do yourself I am sure.
Galbally. Sometimes what you write is so interesting to me that I actually copy and paste some of your posts into my Yahoo notepad. Like when you gave me information about my anthropology question. But I really like what you wrote in this post too. Especially the 2nd paragraph.
I'm so glad that so called "religious leaders" cannot control civil society. REally. And this isn't meant to be in sarcasm. Because if they did, there would be lots of wars here in the U.S.
I think that I could go on about it. But I'm just gonna be brief. Sometimes religions scare me, especially the "born-agains". I've had my share of religious fanaticism and it scares me. It's a reason that my grandfather migrated here from Ireland. He being an Irish Catholic and my grandmother being a Protestant, he kind of lost touch with the rest of the family in Ireland. :-2
One of the reasons why Western societies were able to achieve some degree of intellectual freedom and not keep wallowing in the dark ages, was that ultimatley religious leaders were not able to keep control of civil society and we were able to think for ourselves, leading to the modern world for all its good and bad, its a freedom I would not be willing ever to give up, under any circumstances, to any religion whatsoever, mine or anyone else's and I believe many of your countrymen and women would feel that way, as you do yourself I am sure.
Galbally. Sometimes what you write is so interesting to me that I actually copy and paste some of your posts into my Yahoo notepad. Like when you gave me information about my anthropology question. But I really like what you wrote in this post too. Especially the 2nd paragraph.
I'm so glad that so called "religious leaders" cannot control civil society. REally. And this isn't meant to be in sarcasm. Because if they did, there would be lots of wars here in the U.S.
I think that I could go on about it. But I'm just gonna be brief. Sometimes religions scare me, especially the "born-agains". I've had my share of religious fanaticism and it scares me. It's a reason that my grandfather migrated here from Ireland. He being an Irish Catholic and my grandmother being a Protestant, he kind of lost touch with the rest of the family in Ireland. :-2
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
cinamin;538645 wrote: Galbally. Sometimes what youthrite is so interesting to me that I actually copy and paste some of your posts into my Yahoo notepad. Like when you gave me information about my anthropology question. But I really like what you wrote in this post too. Especially the 2nd paragraph.
I'm so glad that so called "religious leaders" cannot control civil society. REally. And this isn't meant to be in sarcasm. Becuase if they did, there would be lots f wars here in the U.S.
I think that I could go on about it. But I'm just gonna be brief. Sometimes religions scare me, especially the "born-agains". I've had my share of religious fanaticism and it scares me. It's a reason that my grandfather migrated here from Ireland. He being an Irish Catholic and my grandmother being a Protestant, he kind of lost touch with the rest of the family in Ireland. :-2
Yes, we have had the very sharp end of all this religion stuff, not just the peace and love stuff that most people think it is, so forgive me if I am a little wary of the whole religion thing, in general its a good thing for people to have beliefs in things that make them aspire to be good decent people, and I would never knock anyone's religious beliefs (well usually) but there is a very, very dark side to it all as well, (and that goes for all religions and all denominations) and I as an Irish catholic know this all too well.
I'm so glad that so called "religious leaders" cannot control civil society. REally. And this isn't meant to be in sarcasm. Becuase if they did, there would be lots f wars here in the U.S.
I think that I could go on about it. But I'm just gonna be brief. Sometimes religions scare me, especially the "born-agains". I've had my share of religious fanaticism and it scares me. It's a reason that my grandfather migrated here from Ireland. He being an Irish Catholic and my grandmother being a Protestant, he kind of lost touch with the rest of the family in Ireland. :-2
Yes, we have had the very sharp end of all this religion stuff, not just the peace and love stuff that most people think it is, so forgive me if I am a little wary of the whole religion thing, in general its a good thing for people to have beliefs in things that make them aspire to be good decent people, and I would never knock anyone's religious beliefs (well usually) but there is a very, very dark side to it all as well, (and that goes for all religions and all denominations) and I as an Irish catholic know this all too well.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
almostfamous;538623 wrote: First, the definition: "Freedom of speech is the liberty to freely say what one pleases, as well as the related liberty to hear what others have stated. Recently, it has been commonly understood as encompassing all types of expression, including the freedom to create and distribute movies, pictures, songs, dances, and all other forms of expressive communication."
I think the problem Cinamin is that you want to talk but don't care to listen. I feel you're a bit too quick to judge a group based on one arsehole that you've encountered ..that happened to be from the continent of Europe. Some people are just acinine and whether you choose to pick an argument with them is your own business but quit complaining when they find it offensive or rude or "attention seeking" the way you retaliate. Try killing them with kindness if in the event you're unable to ignore them.
I'm sure I just opened a can but golleee the drama that surrounds you. Why is this? Too much Freedom of Speech? If you're going to voice something offensive as a generalization (i.e. European countries, people on an Egyptian forum, an RR forum or WHATEVER) just expect repercussions and be prepared for them to stand up for themselves especially if they feel they are being attacked.
Oooookay.
I think the problem Cinamin is that you want to talk but don't care to listen. I feel you're a bit too quick to judge a group based on one arsehole that you've encountered ..that happened to be from the continent of Europe. Some people are just acinine and whether you choose to pick an argument with them is your own business but quit complaining when they find it offensive or rude or "attention seeking" the way you retaliate. Try killing them with kindness
if in the event you're unable to ignore them.I'm sure I just opened a can but golleee the drama that surrounds you. Why is this? Too much Freedom of Speech?
If you're going to voice something offensive as a generalization (i.e. European countries, people on an Egyptian forum, an RR forum or WHATEVER) just expect repercussions and be prepared for them to stand up for themselves especially if they feel they are being attacked.Oooookay.
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
Galbally;538650 wrote: Yes, we have had the very sharp end of all this religion stuff, not just the peace and love stuff that most people think it is, so forgive me if I am a little wary of the whole religion thing, in general its a good thing for people to have beliefs in things that make them aspire to be good decent people, and I would never knock anyone's religious beliefs (well usually) but there is a very, very dark side to it all as well, (and that goes for all religions and all denominations) and I as an Irish catholic know this all too well.
Yep. What is most scary here in the U.S. is that the government is not allowed jurisdiction over "religious" organizations. But there is a thin line as to what is actually a "religion". There are some organizations that are really not religions and are allowed to remain, because the government is not allowed to do anything about it. And this is the reason why there are so many so called cults in American.
I think once i heard that there are like hundreds if not thousands of different organizatons that call themselves "religions". And they even become tax exempt. so they don't have to pay taxes (another reason the government want no part in them).
Yep. What is most scary here in the U.S. is that the government is not allowed jurisdiction over "religious" organizations. But there is a thin line as to what is actually a "religion". There are some organizations that are really not religions and are allowed to remain, because the government is not allowed to do anything about it. And this is the reason why there are so many so called cults in American.
I think once i heard that there are like hundreds if not thousands of different organizatons that call themselves "religions". And they even become tax exempt. so they don't have to pay taxes (another reason the government want no part in them).
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Sweet Tooth
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
cinamin;538660 wrote: Yep. What is most scary here in the U.S. is that the government is not allowed jurisdiction over "religious" organizations. But there is a thin line as to what is actually a "religion". There are some organizations that are really not religions and are allowed to remain, because the government is not allowed to do anything about it. And this is the reason why there are so many so called cults in American.
I think once i heard that there are like hundreds if not thousands of different organizatons that call themselves "religions". And they even become tax exempt. so they don't have to pay taxes (another reason the government want no part in them).
I think the government is scared to cross that seperation between chuch and state line there! you can't blame them! These days its damned if you do, damned if you dont!
I think once i heard that there are like hundreds if not thousands of different organizatons that call themselves "religions". And they even become tax exempt. so they don't have to pay taxes (another reason the government want no part in them).
I think the government is scared to cross that seperation between chuch and state line there! you can't blame them! These days its damned if you do, damned if you dont!
Freedom of Speech and Other Countries
And there are dozens of spots in downtown L.A, for example, where people stand on the box and speak to their hearts' content.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay