House Passes Stem Cell Bill

[Specfiction]

The reason that almost nothing works very well is because too many people are too extreme. We need to think more about what we're proposing because extremism always hurts a lot more people than it helps.

[Accountable]

Diuretic;517068 wrote: And this is where the national differences emerge. Our political system doesnt have PACs and the lobbyists we have - and we have them - aren't all that influential. The reason is because in our system party discipline is tight, very, very tight. I've seen close up and personal the lobbying that happens in the US (I have only seen it at work in Tx) and I was amazed that, for example, a bill could be co-sponsored by a Democrat and a Republican. In our system that would not happen. Note - I am not claiming superiority, merely making the point that there is a difference. The upshot is that governments can pretty much fund what they like and choose to heed or ignore any particular lobby groups here.



This sort of research is regulated strongly by law here. Our federal government has a huge role in medical research - http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/ - and it reasonably apolitical (that has changed recently due to the ideological madness of our current PM and his lackeys). Private industry is involved but they tend to work in partnership with universities and government with all sorts of agreements.



In our country because we have such a small economy and population we can't afford to have no or minimal government involvement so the question is moot. I want more government investment, more taxpayers dollars going into research and more control over it. Let the corporate sector take care of production and distribution, they do that very well, but the base research must be encouraged by govt.
"Note - I am not claiming superiority, merely making the point that there is a difference." Actually I thought you were stating a positive about the co-sponsored bills until I read this sentence.



I can't speak for Australia, but the US has billionaires at every point in the political spectrum, and millionaires by the truckload with them. Our government, arguably at the behest of corporate lobbyists and other power brokers, have changed our society into one of dependence. Our education system and welfare system, through accident or design teach mediocrity, hopelessness, and dependence on the government.

Myths abound:


Colleges and universities can't educate without federal funding

Charities can't help people without government subsidies

Science will slip into the dark ages without Tax assistance

Don't worry, the government will take care of everything, as it shouldBecause the government takes our dollar and gives them to charities, universities, and scientists, we stop giving on our own. We gave at the office, so to speak.



People have forgotten how empowering responsibility is. Scary, sure, but incredibly uplifting as well. We don't need the government to do for us. If I could wave a magic wand and stop the government subsidies tomorrow, the billionaires and millionaires would step up, as would everyone else. Sure there'd be pain initially, but it would happen.



Sorry for the ramble.

[Accountable]

Dependent is what I meant, and what is happening.



It's perfectly understandable, too. The number one job of a politician is, of course, to get reelected. Reelection is a whole different animal from election. An incumbent can't point at what's wrong with the other guy - okay, not exclusively anyway. He has to show that he's doing a good job as the elected representative. He has to show results, which means he has to DO something. Change laws, delete laws, or make new laws. Which has the greatest impact? Why writing them, of course! Laws to improve infrastructure, laws to make people more comfortable, laws to help the poor.



I could go on but you see where I'm going, don't you?

[Accountable]

Diuretic;517147 wrote: Some years ago I attended a small lecture group at the Australian Council of Trades Unions Trade Union Training Authority.......just getting my breath.........There was a really interesting academic from Boston University who gave a lecture on the life of a trade union. He used the United Steelworkers and the United Miners to explain that a union has a lifespan.



In the beginning there is the organising phase. The heroes are the organisers, the Joe Hills, the people represented in that wonderful film Matewan.



Then when the union has begun to establish itself and is recruiting strongly the heroes are those who go to the negotiating table to collectively bargain with the employers.



That phase passes and the union goes into the third phase, the bureaucratic mode. The union becomes a place for careerists, Joe Hill would not fit in, instead the union is only intent on keeping itself viable, it becomes a self-serving organisation that forgets why it exists.



Then the final phase is the destructive phase, where the union begins the decline and possibly from its ashes another union arises to begin the cycle again.



Now this isn't a perfect metaphor but I wonder if your country is moving towards the decline phase. I'm not being insulting and I' m not being anti-American. I could ask the same questions about many other western industrialised nations while watching China.



Is this culture of dependence, of politicians taking the easy, populist policy positions, a sign of decline?
I see what you mean. A historian (Chonsi, are you here?) could probably see that metaphor in in the older societies - China, UK, Italy, etc. Something to watch for, certainly.

[Specfiction]

Interesting story from Geron, which is working with Blastocyst Stem Cells. Researchers in Southern Cal are engaged in a simular effort. I know some of these guys and they think they are very close to some stunning human clinical success. They will start phase I human clinical trials of remylinating spinal cord damaged nerves later this year. They have already reported tremendous success in mice, as was shown on 60 Minutes a few months ago. Here's the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070117/sc_nm/geron_dc

[twizzel]

Specfiction;520306 wrote: Interesting story from Geron, which is working with Blastocyst Stem Cells. Researchers in Southern Cal are engaged in a simular effort. I know some of these guys and they think they are very close to some stunning human clinical success. They will start phase I human clinical trials of remylinating spinal cord damaged nerves later this year. They have already reported tremendous success in mice, as was shown on 60 Minutes a few months ago. Here's the story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070117/sc_nm/geron_dc
Sorry but I can't get excited about this I think the scientists may well be harming the human race as a whole by this and transplant surgery. God gave us natural selection we should not try to better God.

[Accountable]

twizzel;520376 wrote: Sorry but I can't get excited about this I think the scientists may well be harming the human race as a whole by this and transplant surgery. God gave us natural selection we should not try to better God.
God also gave us imagination and invention. I think we should use them. He also gave us a sense of discretion, so that we can/should find a balance among all this.

[twizzel]

Accountable;520385 wrote: God also gave us imagination and invention. I think we should use them. He also gave us a sense of discretion, so that we can/should find a balance among all this.
God designed us to reject that which does not belong you may be able to power a wellington with an engine from a 747 byt it wont last long before it makes a hole in the ground and man made both these aircraft. We should not try to better Gods DESIGN.

[Specfiction]

If cures come, those that wish to accept them can, those that wish to pass can take their chances and except their pain. No one's being forced to do anything.

[twizzel]

Diuretic;520557 wrote: With all the carrying-on humans have been up to since we broke off from our primate cousins one would think that if God was going to give us a smack for being bad He would have done it well before now. I don't think this form of research would cause Him to wrinkle His cosmic brow.

Note - there is no sarcasm, smart-arse humour, pettiness or insult intended in this post and I don't want anyone to take offence. Not believing in God doesn't preclude me from, where I can, hopping into an argument where He is invoked (just as long as it's not Theology where Ted would mop the floor with me )
Remember lot's wife and sodem and gormorra, Noah and the flood. God has given us a slap maybe hiv/aids is another slap.

[Accountable]

Seems that I remember hearing somewhere (tenuous enough?) that many people of that day did believe polio was some kind of punishment brought down by sins of the parents or something.

[twizzel]

Diuretic;522681 wrote: I suppose if you accept the literal existence of Lot's wife etc then it's not too big a jump to accepting that God is cursing us with HIV/AIDS. I don't accept any of those propositions. If I did I'd think every time I got a hangover that it's God punishing me for drinking too much. Now ifyou still accept that HIV/AIDS is God punishing us then I'd like to hear you tell me about poliomyelitis and why it killed so many children and crippled many, many more for life.


I believe most if not all our ills are caused by us playing with our food and adding things made in a lab to make them grow which detracts from the benefit the food does. In medival times the amount of crops produced from an acre was very nearly the same as that produced today, but they used crop rotation rather than addives so the food was healthier. So our bodies were better able to fight of desease.

[Lulu2]

And how many millions died in the plagues? Or was that another heavenly judgement imposed on innocents who just happened to be in the way?