Racist humbug, bubble popped!

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:53 am

'A man who racially abused a police surgeon was told by a judge yesterday: "Next time call him a fat bastard and don't say anything about his colour."

Judge Paul Darlow described the decision to charge Matthew Stiddard, 36, with a racially aggravated offence as "nonsense".'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... nbb117.xml

Judge Darlow seems to be one who has his head on the right way around!

It's worth a read. IMO it shows how puffed up and totally arse-about-face things have become.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:31 am

good post mf

if you call someone a Brit that means they are from Briton (i'm English)but i can live with it , I'd of thought if you call some one a paki they are from Pakistan so how does that then become racist

if they can call me a Brit and its not

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:34 am

I'm A Dumbass Cracker and proud of it.

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:48 am

YZGI;520019 wrote: I'm A Dumbass Cracker and proud of it.

mate i'm not a 100% sure that means what i think it does pm and explain please mate

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:01 am

Magenta flame;520038 wrote: Heh Jimbo You guys made a fuss about us calling you POMS apparently it should be banned ? As far as I can see, if I call you a Brit then I mean it with respect . If I call you a POM then the connatation is that I'm basically calling you a 'WHINGING POM 'which has a whole different meaning . I dunno. I didn't mind being called a VICT while I was over there. It's all about the perception I suppose. Now if you called me a "then I'd be upset.

........No that wasn't an invitation

well i've not heard that one.......what exactly is a pom anyway

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:09 am

Jimbo,

I'm not 100% sure but CRACKER is what black people call white people in the US.

Frankly I think slangs terms for anyones race are unecessary. Slangs for a persons weight is wrong, slangs for a persons apperance period is wrong. Like mom use to say "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" you know what it works.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:09 am

Pinky;520020 wrote: I must say, I'm pretty disappointed to hear that someone in a postion of responsibilty could be so flippant. Maybe someone should call the judge a small minded, bigoted prat and see how he likes it.

I think that he was entirely correct. The remarks seem directed at the CPS and

rather than the general population. If you haven't read the article, I suggest

you do.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:11 am

Magenta flame;520039 wrote: I only know Cracker to be Irish?
The Blacks derisive word for whites here in the States is Cracker. As in white saltine cracker. I was just trying to convey that it doesnt upset me when someone tries to insult me with a so called racist remark In other words I am not hyper sensitive on the subject as soome are.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:12 am

No we're not "crackers" which I was never sure what that word meant anyway, we are "paddies" or "micks". I don't mind people calling me that in a lighthearted way, but if they do it to offend me, then they get offended back, words are words, its the intent you have when you use em that makes em insulting. You do have to be careful because words can seem harmless, but to people they refer to they can be very hurtful so its always polite to think about how you express yourself, and also the constant use of slang and derogatory words vulgarizes people, and that goes for everyone, black or white, Christian or Muslim, Rich or poor.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:18 am

Pinky;520054 wrote: Well excuse me, but I was under the impression that I'm allowed to have my opinion too?

Just because you don't agree, it doesn't mean that the point I was making isn't valid, does it?

Don't get your knickers in a twist, old girl. Have you read the article?

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:22 am

Well, as I live in the same town as the 'scrote' in the article my only opinion is that the nasty little sh1t deserves to be locked up with the rest of his drug-dealing friends and family, and then hopefully taught some respect.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:25 am

I saw a great one once in an Irish hospital, a scumbag was in there with fight wounds, and anyway, this Asian nurse comes over to him, and he shouts at her, "I don't want your kind looking after me, I want an Irish nurse", so the Irish matron came down and shouted at him "Yes sir, and I am sure that she doesn't want to have to waste her time looking after a f*cking toerag like you whose gonna be dead of an overdose anyway before christmas, so tell you what, you lie there and bleed to death, and we will let her go on her lunch break, alright?". He was as quiet as a mouse after that. Proper order.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:13 am

YZGI;520019 wrote: I'm A Dumbass Cracker and proud of it.
Yeh, I've cracked a few dumbasses too.

I was in my thirties the first time I heard the term in an ethnic way. We were in the chow hall; the place was almost empty. I got a bowl of soup, and started looking around. "Whatcha need?" my friend asked. "I don't see any crackers," I replied.

"HEY! This man says they ain't enough CRACKERS up in heah!" he yelled, obviously trying, good-naturedly, to embarass me. I figured it out soon enough.

I'm told the cracker comes about from slavery day - poor white trash hired to supervise the slaves liked to crack the whip to exercise his authority. Thus "cracker" is poor white trash.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:18 am

Accountable;520093 wrote: Yeh, I've cracked a few dumbasses too.

I was in my thirties the first time I heard the term in an ethnic way. We were in the chow hall; the place was almost empty. I got a bowl of soup, and started looking around. "Whatcha need?" my friend asked. "I don't see any crackers," I replied.

"HEY! This man says they ain't enough CRACKERS up in heah!" he yelled, obviously trying, good-naturedly, to embarass me. I figured it out soon enough.

I'm told the cracker comes about from slavery day - poor white trash hired to supervise the slaves liked to crack the whip to exercise his authority. Thus "cracker" is poor white trash.
:wah: Funny story Acc. And I notice you didnt get all hyper sensitive about it. Good for you.

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:18 am

CARLA;520047 wrote: Jimbo,

I'm not 100% sure but CRACKER is what black people call white people in the US.

Frankly I think slangs terms for anyones race are unecessary. Slangs for a persons weight is wrong, slangs for a persons apperance period is wrong. Like mom use to say "If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all" you know what it works.

:yh_clap :yh_clap :yh_clap

Very well said, my thoughts exactly!!

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:37 am

I've had some experience with both terms being wondered about here.

"White nigger" has never made sense to me, since generally "nigger" means a black, so "white nigger" would be a "white black"???

The term "cracker" if memory serves, means a SOUTHERN white person.

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:08 am

Pinky;520020 wrote: It depends in what context the word is used. While in theory Jim is right, the word 'Paki' has such negative connotations now that it's percieved purely as an insult, because that's what it's been used for.

I must say, I'm pretty disappointed to hear that someone in a postion of responsibilty could be so flippant. Maybe someone should call the judge a small minded, bigoted prat and see how he likes it.

I agree with you completely, Pinky.

This doctor was put in a very difficult position. He has to examine the man. It's his job. If the doctor could say "Sod you, I'm outta here" and walk away it would be different.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:17 am

Maybe slightly off track but hopefully not....

Since we're talking about these words, would someone tell me what these words mean and how they came to be if you know?

Poof

Pom

Vict (never heard that till now!)

and "sod" I see that a lot on here and I get that it means f.*ck it" but why sod? As close as I can guess it's a short term for sodomy? Yes? No? Thanks!

I think if someone called me a cracker I'd be too busy laughing to be mad. The word doesn't affect me either way. But if they said b*tch or ho or white trash or something like that, it certainly would make me volatile.

venus · Post by **venus** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:25 am

I gather then Bill that you don't find using racist language offensive..and lm quite disgusted that people think certain words are ok to use still in this l would think enlightened age..

It is wrong and it is hurtful and it is used only for that purpose!

Tell me bill if the person using said term is also saying it in an aggresive way and adding the words lover as my partner is asain and addin on that all l need is a good shagging by some white! men then l will be ok again..

so excuse me and a good chunk of the worlds population for not liking it and not excusing it or fobbing it off!

no racist words names terms are not ok..

I have a mixed cultural background so words like galbally pointed out have been used fro me, as well as those asimed at latino/italian looking people..did l shrug it off..hell no and l wouldnt expect anyone else either no matter what colour the user and the person it was aimed at was..

I do not mix with racists or bigots and l do not see the colour of a persons skin but the soul and heart they hold inside it! My friends and family friends cover the globe and we love them all.

Like you said Carla if you can't say anything nice!! stfu

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:35 am

venus;520170 wrote: I gather then Bill that you don't find using racist language offensive..and lm quite disgusted that people think certain words are ok to use still in this l would think enlightened age..

It is wrong and it is hurtful and it is used only for that purpose!

Tell me bill if the person using said term is also saying it in an aggresive way and adding the words lover as my partner is asain and addin on that all l need is a good shagging by some white! men then l will be ok again..

so excuse me and a good chunk of the worlds population for not liking it and not excusing it or fobbing it off!

no racist words names terms are not ok..

I have a mixed cultural background so words like galbally pointed out have been used fro me, as well as those asimed at latino/italian looking people..did l shrug it off..hell no and l wouldnt expect anyone else either no matter what colour the user and the person it was aimed at was..

I do not mix with racists or bigots and l do not see the colour of a persons skin but the soul and heart they hold inside it! My friends and family friends cover the globe and we love them all.

Like you said Carla if you can't say anything nice!! stfu

both myself and sue come from mixed romany backgrounds and so has my cuz jes we have been racialy abused on f g and i dont give to monkeys about it but i can see how some people can find it an insult there is no need for any one to abuse any one ever, racialy coz they are fat , ugly skinny or whatever i have black friends i have asian friends .. after you know the person a while you dont see the colour of their skin you just see the person i dont mind people calling me a bald fat moron not at all but my brother is bald he would go mad , so best just be nice to each other just in case ... jimbo fat bald ugly pikey

venus · Post by **venus** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:38 am

I just believe that if you hate or dislike the person then you should know them enough to personalise it..and if you don't shut the ******* up!

using things like weight, hair or lack of, skin colour etc..l mean come on, thats really original!!

Carl44 · Post by **Carl44** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:41 am

venus;520193 wrote: I just believe that if you hate or dislike the person then you should know them enough to personalise it..and if you don't shut the ******* up!

using things like weight, hair or lack of, skin colour etc..l mean come on, thats really original!!

good post

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:41 am

venus;520170 wrote: I gather then Bill that you don't find using racist language offensive..and lm quite disgusted that people think certain words are ok to use still in this l would think enlightened age..

If you gather that, you have "interpreted" my posts in a particularly thick-headed

way.

venus;520170 wrote: II have a mixed cultural background

So chuffing what. CLUE: you are not the only one.

venus;520170 wrote: ILike you said Carla if you can't say anything nice!! stfu

Hear, hear. I hope for a prolonged period of silence from you, although of course

I wouldn't bank on it.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:46 am

Frankly, this is all "PC" crap. Take any group of people, any color of people, any nationality of people, anyone from anywhere in the world, and you'll find another group of people who have figured out some "insulting" term to use to call them. Hell, Bikers are called some pretty harsh things, every day, by perfect strangers. Think it matters even a little to me? I am one and I couldn't care less. I don't give some dorks opinion of me, after a 3 second association, any more credit than I would give to a caveman trying to operate a computer. The more power people give to words that come from others, well, the more power the PEOPLE who use them have. Not the words, the people.

First person to come in and say, "But BR, we KNOW you're racist" I will say "Yes, I am."

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:47 am

:wah:

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:52 am

BabyRider;520203 wrote: Frankly, this is all "PC" crap. Take any group of people, any color of people, any nationality of people, anyone from anywhere in the world, and you'll find another group of people who have figured out some "insulting" term to use to call them. Hell, Bikers are called some pretty harsh things, every day, by perfect strangers. Think it matters even a little to me? I am one and I couldn't care less. I don't give some dorks opinion of me, after a 3 second association, any more credit than I would give to a caveman trying to operate a computer. The more power people give to words that come from others, well, the more power the PEOPLE who use them have. Not the words, the people.

First person to come in and say, "But BR, we KNOW you're racist" I will say "Yes, I am."

I'm coming in to say "Bravo, BR"

George Carlin has a really nice segment from one of his live comedy routines saying exactly what you are expressing. It is not the word it is the intention of the person using it.

In this case, the problem is that a doctor is forced to try and do a job on a person who is not allowing him to do it for racist reasons. It puts everyone in a bit of a bind. It's not the word, it's the situation and the usage that caused the problem.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:00 am

I think its also important here to remember that abuse is an incremental thing, first you objectify someone based on their skin, nationality, sex, religion, etc etc, and we do this as shorthand anyway to provide us with references, so whites, blacks, whatever, but then other short hand words are used to as well as identify someone else as something different also denigrate them. Its fair to say that all people use abusive language from time to time to insult and express general "p*ssed offness" about things, its natural though not very edifying. Generally we know when something is pretty neutral, and we also know when they are not, i.e. calling someone a Pakistani is neutral, calling them a Paki, in England, is not, there is a cultural meaning to that word, and we all know it, it doesn't mean that everyone who uses that word is a racist, but everyone knows there is a certain way that word is perceived both by Pakistani people and native white English people. I'm only using this example because it come to mind, not because English people or Pakistanis are more inclined to such things than anyone else, including my own shower, the Irish.

Then some people for reasons of their own self-esteem like to be able to denigrate some group in order to make themselves look more tough within what they identify as their own group. This is where it really starts to get a bit nasty, and this is also very common, then the next level is people start to feel a real antipathy for these others because they have become so used to thinking of them as some lesser object thats their for abuse (or because they are basically stupid and malicious) that they develop real hatred and antipathy for them, then the next step is attacking them, and once this point is past you get into what is pure hatred and racism.

So it starts small and ends up big, and its always a social thing because its about peer groups, and other peer groups, which is why its important to think about the casual manner in which you use language. Sometimes it can be a bit of a thrill or a dare to say something you know really is offensive, but if you get used to the idea thats its alright, you are in danger of falling into the age old trap of hating or at least dismissing other human beings because they don't look or talk like you without knowing the slightest thing about them.

Its interesting that we are having this debate because apparently on that British show big brother there seems to be some problem with an Indian actress getting insulted on a racial or nationality basis there by some other girls, and its causing a bit of a media scrum. I don't really know what thats about, but its probably a good microcosm into how these things kick off, and what they are based on in reality.

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:00 am

BabyRider;520203 wrote: Frankly, this is all "PC" crap.

That was actually the point of the OP. Darlow: ""To charge rather than let it

go by with a caution strikes me as rather odd. We let people hit each other

and break into people's homes and they are not charged."

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:18 am

BabyRider;520203 wrote: The more power people give to words that come from others, well, the more power the PEOPLE who use them have. Not the words, the people. :yh_clap YAY!!

BabyRider wrote: First person to come in and say, "But BR, we KNOW you're racist" I will say "Yes, I am.":yh_frustr BOO!!

But we've had that conversation already.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:49 am

Accountable;520236 wrote: :yh_clap YAY!!

:yh_frustr BOO!!

But we've had that conversation already.
Yep, we have and I'd never claim to be anything I'm not.

What strikes me as more stupidity is, the guy could have had, or SAID, any one of dozens of reasons for not wanting this doctor to work on him. But this is the one that got media attention. Thus, giving more power to the person who used it.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:52 am

Its interesting over in Ireland actually, because of course up till recently Ireland has been a country whose population was 100 percent white, and the only source of contention was that involving religion and political and cultural affiliation (you may have heard about this little problem before), which shows that even people who look and talk exactly the same will quite happily hate each other as well. Therefore both Southern Catholics and Northern protestants were quite busy with their own squabbles and probably thought that all of that racial tension was a thing that happened in Alabama, or the Isle of Dogs. In fact we were always quite smugly proud of the work our missionaries did in Africa and our good record of charity to poorer peoples.

But in recent years because of the Republics remarkable economic growth and now wealth, Ireland has experienced a relatively large amount of immigration, mostly from other European countries such as Poland who are generally liked as they are generally maudlin emotional catholics who drink a lot so they fit right in, but also some from Africa and Asia, and guess what?, we have a people in our country that are just as intolerant and racist as everyone else, they just never realized they were cause they never encountered non-English speaking white people before (apart from the odd Frenchman), so it seems to be a case of "oh we love you, just don't come here looking for our jobs with your diseases". Its quite something to see it happen so quickly and so starkly, and its a bloody good insight into human nature. Its also somewhat ironic that Irish people who are famous for immigrating to other countries can now turn around and be just as intolerant to their own immigrants as the people who were once intolerant to Irish immigrants, sad, but true.

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:07 pm

Galbally;520266 wrote: Ireland has been a country whose population was 100 percent white,
I'm moving to Ireland.

(Sorry Acc, couldn't resist :yh_bigsmi )

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:35 pm

BabyRider;520295 wrote: I'm moving to Ireland.

(Sorry Acc, couldn't resist :yh_bigsmi )
:D Utah's white, but I was really uncomfortable around a sea of blonde. I kept having dreams about Children of the Corn. :-3

venus · Post by **venus** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:52 pm

Bill Sikes;520197 wrote: If you gather that, you have "interpreted" my posts in a particularly thick-headed

way.

then clarify it for me!

So chuffing what. CLUE: you are not the only one.

I was simply pointing out that being called a racist name hurts and it is hard to turn the other cheek..l simply gave my reasons as to why l know this. Oh and l have a clue as you put it, thanks.

Hear, hear. I hope for a prolonged period of silence from you, although of course

I wouldn't bank on it.

so then l should shut up because l disagree!!!

I read the post to mean from you that charging someone with racism is just bollox, there fore l took it to mean that you think racist name calling is fine, not a problem.. this l disagree with, however l see the point that others get off with acts of violence or burgulary ..so why was this followed through..well l feel anyone who breaks the law should recieve a punishment, including racism. No one person should get away with it, if people do not face a consqeuence then what is stopping chaos!!

I would add more but lm finishing a paper for uni..and this is well distracting..

so here you go Bill l shall give you your wish, lm shuttng up..

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:50 am

BabyRider;520295 wrote: I'm moving to Ireland.

(Sorry Acc, couldn't resist :yh_bigsmi )

Okay Babyrider, but you will still have to put up with a lot of Irish people, and when there are a lot of us at once it can be a bit overwhelming. :p