The Most Dangerous Myth In The World

[Glaswegian]

It is unsurprising that the Reverend Jim Rigby came under attack last year from conservative Christians over his decision to allow the atheist academic Robert Jensen to become a member of his Presbyterian church in Austin, Texas. These outraged conservative Christians shrieked at Rigby: 'How can you let someone join the church who cannot affirm the divinity of Christ? Does nothing matter to you Liberals?'

For conservative Christians, belief in Jesus's divinity should be central to one's identity as a Christian and anyone who does not embrace this belief is not a true Christian. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, suggest that instead of viewing Jesus's divinity as literally true this idea should be understood as a myth, a metaphor, a symbol, and the like. Thus, liberal and conservative Christians are located at the opposite ends of a broad spectrum of belief regarding the divinity of Jesus with lots of Christians who are undecided, confused or indifferent about the matter falling in between.

The liberal Christian position that Jesus's divinity is a myth derives from the widespread agreement among New Testament scholars that Jesus himself did not claim he was God incarnate, and that this claim was put into his mouth by the apostle Paul and the authors of the gospels. For New Testament scholars, Jesus did not regard himself as divine but only as a prophet who felt it was his mission to proclaim the end of the existing order of things and the imminent establishment of God's kingdom on earth. The fact that God's kingdom failed to materialise shows that Jesus was certainly not God incarnate. After all, if one of the alleged attributes of God is omniscience then how could Jesus as God have been so spectacularly wrong about the coming kingdom? For New Testament scholars, Jesus's 'divinity' should be understood as the outcome of a process of myth-making whereby Jesus the failed prophet was successively transformed into 'Jesus the Saviour' and into 'Jesus the Messiah' by Paul and the gospel writers, and ultimately into 'Jesus the Second Person of the Trinity' by councils of bishops at Nicaea and Chalcedon several centuries later.

For liberal Christians, Christianity 'is not about grovelling before a saviour, it's joining in the work of saving our world' (Reverend Rigby). Thus, liberal Christians argue for the need to give up the mythical idea of Jesus as a divine being who came into this world to atone for humanity's sins, and to focus on the latter's moral teachings instead. Jesus, in other words, should be seen purely as an inspirational figure who exemplified how Christians ought to live in the world and behave towards others, and nothing beyond this. For liberal Christians, it is the emulation of Jesus as an ethical role model which should be central to Christian identity and not belief in the myth of Jesus's divinity.

The reason why Reverend Rigby wishes to shift the focus of Christian identity away from belief in the myth of Jesus's divinity, and why Jensen as a 'Christian atheist' wishes to engage critically with this myth, is because it is a myth which has been, and continues to be, both dangerously divisive and pernicious in its effects. The following are just a few reasons why this is so:

The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has been used over the last two millennia as the fundamental justification for anti-Semitism in the Christian world. Why? Because according to the New Testament the Jews did not just kill a man. No. They committed the worst crime imaginable. They killed God in the form of Jesus. Because they were held to be collectively responsible for this most awful and heinous of acts, the Jewish people have been systematically used by Christians throughout the ages as the scapegoat par excellence on which they could project and discharge their accumulated feelings of guilt, inadequacy and self-loathing. As the 'murderers of Christ' no punishment has been deemed too terrible for Jews by Christians historically.

The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has given rise to conservative Christianity's posture of superiority vis-a-vis all the other world religions. Why? Because this myth entails that Christianity was personally founded by God Himself, and therefore every other religion by implication is inferior or just plain wrong. The supercilious conceit of this position is manifested in the Christian dogma Extra ecclesiam nulla salus - 'Outside the church there is no salvation'. Thus, in 1960 the Chicago Congress of World Mission could state with self-righteous arrogance: 'In the years since the Second World War more than one billion souls have passed into eternity and more than half of these went to the torment of hell fire without even hearing of Jesus Christ, who He was, or why He died on the cross of Calvary.'

The myth of Jesus's divinity serves as a powerful basis for the subjugation, oppression and slander of women. The myth that Jesus was God incarnate is - if you'll pardon the expression - a 'godsend' for the Christian male chauvinist since it provides him with the perfect rationalization for his hatred and fear of women. The male chauvinist Christian blockhead 'reasons' thus: If God chose to incarnate as Jesus and not as a woman then this is proof at the 'highest level' that the male is superior to the female. As a woman writer once tersely put it: 'When God is male, the male is God'. Right, fellas?

I'll refrain here from describing how the myth that Jesus was God incarnate was used as an ideological device for sanctioning the oppression, exploitation and extermination of 'heathen' colonial peoples in every corner of the globe by European nations from the sixteenth-century onwards - out of fear of making you feel sick and depressed. Suffice it to say, that the amount of conflict, horror and suffering which the myth of Jesus's divinity has directly or indirectly caused to be inflicted on the human race over the last two thousand years is beyond calculation.

The furore over Reverend Rigby's acceptance of a 'Christian atheist' into his church could only have occurred in America out of all the Western nations today. Here in Europe, for example, the doctrine of Jesus's divinity is increasingly seen as an archaic embarrassment and protestant churches are awash with Christians who no longer take it seriously. And the time has long passed when a protestant minister who openly expressed his disbelief in this 'article of faith' raised so much as an eyebrow in the media or among the general public. Indeed, the whole 'Christian atheist' thing is somewhat reversed on this side of the Atlantic. Thus, we have now reached the position in Europe that when someone says they are a conservative Christian it is generally viewed as a sign of downright bad taste on their part. For example, among those masters of social etiquette - the French - to declare oneself 'a believer in the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ' is worse than simple bad manners: it is an outrageous act, a grand faux pas as crass and unforgivable, say, as deliberately defecating oneself in a crowded elevator trapped between floors on a hot summer day.

Regards

James

[Glaswegian]

Diuretic;516247 wrote: Just popping in with some spare towels (for the blood you understand). I'll be back later with a hose.
Catch you later, Diuretic.

[Nomad]

Earth shattering. (((shudder)))

[Accountable]

So obsessed. So fearful. So sad.

[Glaswegian]

Nomad;516301 wrote: Earth shattering. (((shudder)))
Spoken like a true moral bankrupt, Nomad!

[Clint]

Did I miss something?

It's not okay for conservative Christians to object to the Atheist becoming a member.

It is okay for liberals to treat conservative Christians like they had just deliberately defecated themself in a crowded elevator trapped between floors on a hot summer day"?

Hmmm

[Accountable]

I've found the problem:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





The Bible, translated into Glaswegian



by Paul Maplonker.

(Adapted from a book stolen from a hotel bedroom drawer. Thanks to the Authors, too many to mention.)

Editors note: Please note that this story may be fictional and referenceto any persons living or dead, or immortal, is purely coincidental. Honest!



The 1st Day





At the start, the Big Yin, brought aboot up rerr and doon here. An doon here wis sod all, and all the lights were oot. So the Big Yin says,"put the lights oan rerr"and here did the lights no go oan!

The Big yin saw rat and sez "rerr, sorted" "Ah'll keep that dark bit though and call that the night and when they lights are oan Ah'll call rat the day!"

Day 2





So the Big Yin then sez "Whit aboot big Swimmin' baths, wi wee islands on them?", and here did they wee islands no appear in the swimmin' baths!

"Here!"sez the Big Yin, "they dry bits cin be the earth, an Ah'll rename that swimmin' pool tae somehin simple, erm, like, aw just a letter will do it, how aboot 'C'? Aye that'll be grand... 'C' it is!"

"Here, Ah'm fair gettin' the hang o' this", says the Big Yin,"It's braw" But the Big Yin noticed some things were still missing!

Day 3



"Right", he sez, "Ah'll dae some gardenin'! Bit B&Q's shut so I'll hae to do it masel!", and here did there no sprout some grass and stuff oot the grun, and they even hud oranges and apples oan em!

"You know", he thinks,"They trees look nicer wi leaves oaf them, but ah cannie decide so I'll make them faw aff once in a while, and then even grow some o' them aipples and oranges 'n' that as well. Aye that's a good idea!" So he decides, tae sort oot the seasons 'n' that, while he's at it...

Right, noo it's day four, and ah hope yer payin' attention cos Ah'll be asking ye questions later!

"Ah fancy a hamster!", thinks the Big Yin, "then again, this place is huge so whit aboot a zoo? Aye a zoo's a good idea", so oot o' that 'C' comes hamsters, guinea pigs, and even they wee hairy things ye see scurryin' aboot in yer bins. Bit some o' the beasties stayed in the swimmin' pool, an the Big Yin calls 'em fish, an sum 'o them beasties even start floatin' aboot in the sky!!! . Noo ah know whit yer thinkin, it's that 'grass' the Big Yin's hud! but hell naw, these hings are flying aboot themsels, so he calls them burds. (No to be confused wi, Glesga burds.)

So the Big Yin, thinks it's PURE GALLUS!

Day 5



Then the Big Yin, fancies a McDonalds, so he makes coos and chickens and stuff, on the fifth day... must be that 'grass' that's gave him the muchies? Anyhoo that's whit he does.

Day 6





Sixth day noo, and dis he no make us? Aye he does!The Big Yin sez, "Ah need pals tae watch the hoose while 'am away!", so he makes these guys that look like him, and he sez tae them, "There's loadsa coos fer burgers (or chickens fer KFC) an ye's can huv a swim in the pool as well!

"nae borra", says us.

"nae borra", says the big yin, "ah'm gawn fer a good drinkin' sesh. Then the morra, ah'm gettin' ma heed doon, Ah'm scunnered!"

So, on the Seventh Day he got his heed doon, and he decided that everybody should get there heeds doon oan that Day fae noo on. (or watch the Omnibus Eastenders)

The Big Yin wis fair chuffed wi himsel'!END OF PART ONE.



IN PART TWO: The Big Yin, finds oot the name o' one o' his pals (Adam), and makes a terrible decision! Yes, he creates woman!: (Wee Effie). An' he finds a snake in the grass, in mair ways than one!

[Glaswegian]

Accountable;516401 wrote: I've found the problem:



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





The Bible, translated into Glaswegian



by Paul Maplonker.

(Adapted from a book stolen from a hotel bedroom drawer. Thanks to the Authors, too many to mention.)

Editors note: Please note that this story may be fictional and referenceto any persons living or dead, or immortal, is purely coincidental. Honest!



The 1st Day





At the start, the Big Yin, brought aboot up rerr and doon here. An doon here wis sod all, and all the lights were oot. So the Big Yin says,"put the lights oan rerr"and here did the lights no go oan!

The Big yin saw rat and sez "rerr, sorted" "Ah'll keep that dark bit though and call that the night and when they lights are oan Ah'll call rat the day!"

Day 2





So the Big Yin then sez "Whit aboot big Swimmin' baths, wi wee islands on them?", and here did they wee islands no appear in the swimmin' baths!

"Here!"sez the Big Yin, "they dry bits cin be the earth, an Ah'll rename that swimmin' pool tae somehin simple, erm, like, aw just a letter will do it, how aboot 'C'? Aye that'll be grand... 'C' it is!"

"Here, Ah'm fair gettin' the hang o' this", says the Big Yin,"It's braw" But the Big Yin noticed some things were still missing!

Day 3



"Right", he sez, "Ah'll dae some gardenin'! Bit B&Q's shut so I'll hae to do it masel!", and here did there no sprout some grass and stuff oot the grun, and they even hud oranges and apples oan em!

"You know", he thinks,"They trees look nicer wi leaves oaf them, but ah cannie decide so I'll make them faw aff once in a while, and then even grow some o' them aipples and oranges 'n' that as well. Aye that's a good idea!" So he decides, tae sort oot the seasons 'n' that, while he's at it...

Right, noo it's day four, and ah hope yer payin' attention cos Ah'll be asking ye questions later!

"Ah fancy a hamster!", thinks the Big Yin, "then again, this place is huge so whit aboot a zoo? Aye a zoo's a good idea", so oot o' that 'C' comes hamsters, guinea pigs, and even they wee hairy things ye see scurryin' aboot in yer bins. Bit some o' the beasties stayed in the swimmin' pool, an the Big Yin calls 'em fish, an sum 'o them beasties even start floatin' aboot in the sky!!! . Noo ah know whit yer thinkin, it's that 'grass' the Big Yin's hud! but hell naw, these hings are flying aboot themsels, so he calls them burds. (No to be confused wi, Glesga burds.)

So the Big Yin, thinks it's PURE GALLUS!

Day 5



Then the Big Yin, fancies a McDonalds, so he makes coos and chickens and stuff, on the fifth day... must be that 'grass' that's gave him the muchies? Anyhoo that's whit he does.

Day 6





Sixth day noo, and dis he no make us? Aye he does!The Big Yin sez, "Ah need pals tae watch the hoose while 'am away!", so he makes these guys that look like him, and he sez tae them, "There's loadsa coos fer burgers (or chickens fer KFC) an ye's can huv a swim in the pool as well!

"nae borra", says us.

"nae borra", says the big yin, "ah'm gawn fer a good drinkin' sesh. Then the morra, ah'm gettin' ma heed doon, Ah'm scunnered!"

So, on the Seventh Day he got his heed doon, and he decided that everybody should get there heeds doon oan that Day fae noo on. (or watch the Omnibus Eastenders)

The Big Yin wis fair chuffed wi himsel'!END OF PART ONE.



IN PART TWO: The Big Yin, finds oot the name o' one o' his pals (Adam), and makes a terrible decision! Yes, he creates woman!: (Wee Effie). An' he finds a snake in the grass, in mair ways than one!


Magnificent, Accountable! What I owe you is beyond evaluation. :yh_worshp

I knew you were a man after my own heart!

[Accountable]

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[Accountable]

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When he was training to be an apprentice in the manufacturing industry, David came face to face with the conditions that many citizens of Glasgow lived in. It was among the poor that David found his calling, caring for them and sharing the gospel. He had a vision for an interdenominational agency that would work alongside churches to provide for the spiritual and material welfare of those in need in Glasgow. In 1826, David established Glasgow City Mission, the world’s first City Mission.

David travelled around the UK and the world, establishing City Missions wherever he went and writing to others to encourage them to do the same. He challenged the church to ‘go to the poor’ and have a very visible presence in their local communities, sharing the practical message of faith as well as the spiritual.

[Accountable]

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[Glaswegian]

Now you know, Accountable, that when people tell you that we Glaswegians are the most kindest, warmest, compassionate human beings in the whole world they are telling you the truth.

[Accountable]

I just want to show that you are not a typical Glaswegian. I'm sure you're an anomally. A zit

[Glaswegian]

Accountable;516482 wrote: I'm sure you're an anomally.
Because you have done me a great service, Accountable :yh_worshp I won't point out the spelling error you made in the above sentence.

[ShawnG]

It is interesting that you would choose the Rev. Jim Rigby as a cause celebre for your latest foray into intolerance, G. I thank you for doing so, for I had not known of this gentlemen previously, and it gave me the opportunity to peruse some of the man's writings available on the world wide web. Naturally the first article I gravitated toward was titled "why we let an atheist into our church" seeking some first hand knowledge of the topic at hand, I read his views on this subject in depth, and rather than risk misinterpreting some of his remarks I will post some of the more illuminating points here vis a vis the fact that while the religious right did post objection to the gentleman joining the church, members of the athiest community were active in their dissaproval as well:

It's been interesting to see that atheists can be just as narrow-minded as believers. Some of Jensen's critics expressed an infallible belief that religious people like me are idiots by definition. Inflexible beliefs on matters where one has no experience is superstition whether one is a believer or in an atheist.



Atheism can become self-parody when it forms a rigid belief system about religion. There is a difference between true atheism and anti-theism. Atheism can be the naked pursuit of truth, but anti-theism is more often the adolescent joy of upsetting and mocking religious people.

I can understand the urge to make fun of religious people; many of the voices that speak for religion make me want to crawl under the table. But we also must remember that Stalinists -- claiming to be atheistic materialists -- were as savage and superstitious as the inquisitors.

Without religion we would eliminate some of the worst chapters in human history brought on by the religious inquisitors and religious terrorists. But we would also eliminate some of history's best chapters. Imagine a world with no Gandhi, no Martin Luther King, and no Dorothy Day.

Some people argue that evolution disproves religion. I would say that evolution helps us understand why religion is inevitable in human beings. Our upper brain functions are built on top of a marshy swamp of animal instincts, and we are rational only in spurts. Much of our most important processes are irrational, even more are unconscious altogether. To say we will be purely scientific and objective is an act of imaginary dissociation from the liquid core of our own being. In Sartre's words it is "bad faith."


link: http://www.alternet.org/story/34268/



I rather like Rev. Jim Rigby's point of view much better when it is described by Rev. Jim Rigby, than by you.

[Accountable]

"anti-theism is more often the adolescent joy of upsetting and mocking religious people."



I like it.

[ShawnG]

The whole article is excellently done and recommended reading, I'm not one for churchgoing, but I would attend his.

[Nomad]

Glaswegian;516343 wrote: Spoken like a true moral bankrupt, Nomad!




You must be very clever to have exposed my true character in one swift sentence. Truly it must be divine to be you.

[koan]

Nomad;516619 wrote: You must be very clever to have exposed my true character in one swift sentence. Truly it must be divine to be you.


He thinks he's the king of Poopsville but really he's just fart the messenger boy.

[Accountable]

koan;516624 wrote: He thinks he's the king of Poopsville but really he's just fart the messenger boy.
:wah:



Do you think Mrs. Barker was serious when she said she's giving a quiz today? :-3

[Ted]

Accountable:-6

I do love the creation story. Excellent.

Your posts and URL about Rigby are excellent.

From the responses I see that Glassyeyes is up to his usual BS.

Actually personally I see no problem in allowing an atheist into the church. It is following in the footsteps of Jesus who refused no one.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Ted]

Not having read the OP I will say the most dangerous myth of all is for someone to think they have all the answers.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[Glaswegian]

ShawnG;516582 wrote: It is interesting that you would choose the Rev. Jim Rigby as a cause celebre for your latest foray into intolerance, G. I thank you for doing so, for I had not known of this gentlemen previously, and it gave me the opportunity to peruse some of the man's writings available on the world wide web.
You're welcome, ShawnG.

[Glaswegian]

Ted;516863 wrote: Not having read the OP I will say the most dangerous myth of all is for someone to think they have all the answers.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Someone like who? The writer of the OP?

How can you possibly know whether or not the writer of the OP thinks in it that he has all the answers? Unless you have read it.

Be careful.

Not only am I able to see a lie - I can smell one a continent away.

[Accountable]

And type one at arm's reach.

[ShawnG]

This G OP is not as bad as the last one. Granted, that's like saying that Mussolini was not as bad as Hitler, but at least he managed to separate one monolithic mass of Christianity into two monolithic masses of Christianity, before misrepresenting the views of both. he still degenerates into anti-thieist dogma at a few points, but we'll take this as progress, or maybe I'm just tired.

[Ted]

ShawnG:-6

I like that word degenerate.

Shalom

Ted:-6

[911]

God bless his heart

The only thing Glas accomplishes is to make my faith that much stronger. Funny, huh?

Kissey, kissey, Glas! :yh_kiss



Shawn, you da man!

[Glaswegian]

911;517861 wrote: The only thing Glas accomplishes is to make my faith that much stronger.


Faith in what, 911?

The reason why I ask you this question is because I don't know what your faith as a Christian involves.

So let me ask you this: Do you agree with the view expressed in the OP that the divinity of Jesus is a myth?

(Oh, I almost forgot. Kissey, kissey back 911! :yh_kiss)

[BabyRider]

Glaswegian;517019 wrote: Not only am I able to see a lie - I can smell one a continent away.
Woooooow......you should bottle that and sell it to the leptons who would actually believe it. You'd make a fortune.

Let's put it to a lil test.....

I have owned 9 dogs in my life.

Truth or lie?

[Glaswegian]

BabyRider;518025 wrote: I have owned 9 dogs in my life.

Truth or lie?
What kind of dogs are we talking about here, Baby Rider?

The ones with paws...or the ones you've married?

[Accountable]

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Please come in and have a look round, and see how we can help you prepare for Christian service.



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http://www.icc.ac.uk/

[Accountable]

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[BabyRider]

Glaswegian;518041 wrote: What kind of dogs are we talking about here, Baby Rider?



The ones with paws...or the ones you've married?
Now THERE is some typical "church goer" reaction! Didn't think you'd be quite such easy game, dufus.

[Glaswegian]

BabyRider;518192 wrote: Now THERE is some typical "church goer" reaction!
That's the spirit, Baby Rider!

Don't listen to the church when it tells you:

'No riding before marriage.'

Tha's jes fer rednecks.

So live to ride, Baby, live to ride!

[Glaswegian]

koan;516624 wrote: He thinks he's the king of Poopsville
'king' - interesting choice of word that, koan.

koan wrote: but really he's just fart the messenger boy.
That's you in denial over your choice of the word 'king'.

Why struggle with your heart, koan, when you know that resistance is useless? :yh_bigsmi

[koan]

Glaswegian;518445 wrote: 'king' - interesting choice of word that, koan.

That's you in denial over your choice of the word 'king'.

Why struggle with your heart, koan, when you know that resistance is useless? :yh_bigsmi


The funny thing is that you would think I waste my mental facilities on you. That is an expression I heard a long time ago. I didn't make it up just for you. Although I've seen you in your various threads writing and rewriting your posts for lengthy time periods, I spend an average of 10 seconds thinking of my replies. It's the difference between truly creative and intelligent people and wannabes like you.

You're out of your league.

[Glaswegian]

koan;518451 wrote: The funny thing is that you would think I waste my mental facilities on you.
The word you're looking for here, koan, is faculties.

Don't mention it. You're welcome.

[koan]

Glaswegian;518462 wrote: The word you're looking for here, koan, is faculties.

Don't mention it. You're welcome.


Life is passing you by.

[Glaswegian]

A NOTICE FOR ALL MY FRIENDS

Glaswegian has left the building.

[Accountable]

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We hope you can use this site to find a wide variety of opportunities for you get connected with caring people no matter where you are in your spiritual journey.



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[Glaswegian]

A NOTICE FOR ALL MY FRIENDS

I'm back.

"Love has come to town".

(Talking Heads: '77)

[spot]

To what end, dear boy? Is the world so small a place after all?

[Glaswegian]

spot;569389 wrote: To what end, dear boy? Is the world so small a place after all?


Greetings spot! Long time no see.

spot wrote: To what end, dear boy?


To save you from yourself, of course - along with everyone else.

[spot]

Glaswegian;569403 wrote: To save you from yourself, of course - along with everyone else.Is the world so small a place after all?